1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Dear Devs, please remove timer from Exodus keys

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Laura_Gold, Jan 21, 2014.

  1. Laura_Gold

    Laura_Gold Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    45
    Dear Devs, please remove the timer from Exodus keys.

    Reasoning:
    Check **** all shards for the Scroll of Valiant Commendation. Notice that these are for sale only on the most populated shards.
    I suspect this is because the lesser populated shards can't get groups together big enough to fight Clockwork Exodus, and the fact that everyone must have key items that are hard to get is a barrier.

    So, please let the key items last until used.
     
    #1 Laura_Gold, Jan 21, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2014
  2. Eaerendil

    Eaerendil Professional Mall Santa and Legendary Piglet
    Professional Governor Stratics Veteran King'sYewHighlanders

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,016
    Likes Received:
    2,346
    Good idea. Same for other peerless. And please give Meli and others modern loot like Exodus.
     
  3. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,299
    Likes Received:
    60
    *likes* and upgrade loot like above
     
    whiterabbit and Eaerendil like this.
  4. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,873
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    I've thought about this before and like the idea but wonder if keys have timers to keep people from farming and selling them - not sure if that's a downside or not, but could be the reason they have timers
     
  5. MissEcho

    MissEcho Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,427
    Likes Received:
    766
    So what if people do farm keys and sell them, timers on keys is just another example of game makers forcing players to play how 'they' think we should play, not how we 'want' to play. Is another level of added tedium to play, forcing people to spend HOURS getting items just so they can do the thing they want to do, ie do a boss fight. In a lot of cases, eg the citadel, prism of light etc by the time you have the keys to do the boss, you have run out of time and can't be bothered. It is why I don't bother with many of them any more. Just don't have the time to farm the keys before the fight. And on small shards like mine, rarely have enough people able to be online for the time it takes to gather then do the boss. As for exodus being able to craft the keys, well that would be fine if they were crafted with regular easy to obtain materials but seriously *taint* being one of them, and 5 at that, sheesh you might have to do 5 peerless bosses, and gather all the keys for them before you got enough taint to drop to make just 1 key for exodus let alone a parties worth. Prime example of those designing the game not really having a clue as to what is involved.

    Be so much simpler if all timers were removed on all keys, people could fight stuff, get keys and keep them til they either 'feel' like doing the boss, have a group big enough to do the boss or just sell them to others to do the boss. And at the same time make them stackable, another thing the devs seem to have an aversion to.

    Same as it's about time a lot of non recall areas are opened up to recall ie Ilshenar.. It seems all the stuff the devs have put in over the last few years has to be the most tedious of places to 'get' to. Prime example is Sea Market, Blackthorn's dungeon, wrong dungeon, totally wrecked despise dungeon, the underwater quest thing (haven't even done it yet as just haven't had the time to go through the whole thing) can't even recall into the newbie mine in haven. Makes playing this game llike flipping WOW where everytime you want to go somewhere you have to factor in the boredom of getting there. The MAIN reason I quit playing that was it was just so tedious everytime you needed to do something, 3 mins here, 5 mins there, ooops forgot this fly 3 mins back etc etc, painful and unnecessary.

    If you want 'immersion' and if that is a huge part of the game for you, then hmmm ............. walk, no one forces you to use recall, however, personally the more places I can recall to the better. This game is actually going backwards now when it comes to making large parts of it easily accessible. I seriously noticed how much backwards it has gone having just remarked close to 200 rune books. Tons and tons of stuff you used to be able to recall to you now have to go to the nearest gate, entrance etc and try to describe in 20 letters whatever direction people need to take. At least 60% of marks are now like this, ie mark at dungeon entrance and try and write *critter* L2 rear, or *critter* Nth west etc. Just pathetic.
     
    Lorax_Pacific and Lord Kotan like this.
  6. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,764
    Likes Received:
    1,522
    I hope everyone continues to complain on how their shard can't get enough people together to do said bosses..that way they can finally merge!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Lord Kotan likes this.
  7. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,873
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    True, I've had to kill 8 Irks in a row to get one brain to fight Dread Horn - not worth the trouble and doesn't see right. I would imagine originally the keys were thought up to make the peerless drops even harder to get. But that was back in the days when you had groups of 6 or 8 people working together to get the keys. I agree that the game has changed since the whole idea was implemented, and it's time for a change to reflect the smaller population. And I would think taking the timer off the keys would be a simple change to make.
     
  8. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,548
    Likes Received:
    548
    I may be wrong but peerless keys are on the one week timer now right? I feel like that's a decent length.

    Now I'd be perfectly fine with no timer just so I can stockpile them for whenever I feel like beating on Dreadhorn but one week is alright.
     
  9. MissEcho

    MissEcho Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,427
    Likes Received:
    766
    There is just NO need for key timers. What is the point? None.

    I often go to exodus dungeon to loot crates, I get lots of exodus keys, problem is there is hardly ever a group online when I play to do it with. I put the keys in my cupboard and 99% of the time even tho they are a weekly timer they end up decaying. Then whenever we have the odd time when enough ARE online to do it, we have to spend hours regetting the keys, by which time people have to leave and again, we don't have the numbers. It is a waste of time and needs to be removed.

    I would like to be able to put them on a vendor so that when ever ANYONE wanted to do a boss they could come and buy keys from me. Market will decide the asking price, but I see no reason we shouldn't be able to sell excess keys to those who want them. Or stockpile them for times we want to do them.

    As I said before, it is the dev's forcing us to play how they want us to play instead of giving us the option.
     
    Lord Kotan likes this.
  10. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
    Moderator Professional Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Messages:
    10,683
    Likes Received:
    8,768
    People already sell the keys for profit even with the timers, on Atlantic at least, I see no reason not to remove timers from all the keys.
     
    Lord Kotan likes this.
  11. Eaerendil

    Eaerendil Professional Mall Santa and Legendary Piglet
    Professional Governor Stratics Veteran King'sYewHighlanders

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,016
    Likes Received:
    2,346
    *signed*
     
    Lord Kotan likes this.
  12. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,890
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    REMOVE THE TIMERS and upgrade peerless boss loot!
     
  13. Eaerendil

    Eaerendil Professional Mall Santa and Legendary Piglet
    Professional Governor Stratics Veteran King'sYewHighlanders

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,016
    Likes Received:
    2,346
    That would give a massive boost to such abandoned places like the Citatel or Paroxy´s Lair! Imagine how nice Meli-Runs would be, if you could find Legendary Artifacts there...!!!
     
  14. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,890
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    It's actually sad those places have been left to rot for the last decade. Wth would I even do Dreadhorn since I can get a crimmy through blackthorns dungeon
     
  15. Eaerendil

    Eaerendil Professional Mall Santa and Legendary Piglet
    Professional Governor Stratics Veteran King'sYewHighlanders

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,016
    Likes Received:
    2,346
    Yea, it is sad. However, one would go there, because it is fun - e.g. to test new templates etc... If you get a nice reward - even better!
     
  16. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,890
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    If there was no loot or rewards people would not go through the steps of farming keys and doing a boss. They might try it once to say they have done it but that would be it.
     
    #16 Goodmann, Jan 22, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  17. Eaerendil

    Eaerendil Professional Mall Santa and Legendary Piglet
    Professional Governor Stratics Veteran King'sYewHighlanders

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,016
    Likes Received:
    2,346
    Yes, thats why I say: Upgrade the loot! :)
     
  18. MissEcho

    MissEcho Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,427
    Likes Received:
    766
    Sure but you need to spend time spamming in chat to sell em. I tried on Atlantic a few times and couldn't get a buyer. You can't put em on vendors, that was the first thing I tried when the exodus keys came in. Had a bunch gained by my thief from the exodus dungeon and knew I wouldn't be able to use them so tried to put em on a vendor figuring if they didn't sell they would just expire, but better someone use them than no one. But I don't have time to stand around on the off chance some group is available to take the keys off me then and there, especially when I might have 6 robes, one dagger, 2 summoning rites etc after my session thieving. A group of 4-6 is gonna need 4-6 of each item. That is why it is such a pain.

    Remove all timers, make them able to be put on a vendor, and make them flipping STACK so people who want to can store them without using up all their lockdowns as is currently the case with them.
     
    Captn Norrington and DJAd like this.
  19. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,548
    Likes Received:
    548
    I'd be all for it if we could figure out a solution to housing and what not.
     
  20. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,818
    Likes Received:
    2,346
    *double signed*

    Would be a nice way to make a guild hunt, get enough keys to take the group thru several times. But with a timer, you either have to work it like a second job, or not go at all... No timer means we could collect what we wanted at leisure, certainly more fun than being a slave to a timer.
     
  21. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
    VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    2,611
    There are some valid points to the tune of allowing enough time on items that have a lifespan in order to extend the window with which you can participate in a peerless/exodus fight. Not long ago we bumped all the key timers up to the 1 week that Exodus keys have. I could see potentially extending that timer to perhaps two weeks, indefinitely extending it though, presents us with a significant problem that plagues a game as old as ours. Ultimately the level of saturation for these items reaches a point where it invalidates all the content that is related to their very collection.
     
  22. Aragorn

    Aragorn Journeyman

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    65
    translation: If we have the timers removed nobody will have to work for their crap? They'll just buy the keys. Interesting
     
    whiterabbit likes this.
  23. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Well I do know of a few guilds I wont name who do farm the keys and keep keys for use by any guild members or friends who want to use.
    I have to agree with Kyronix... there are some issues with this aspect.... 2 weeks sounds good enough.
     
    whiterabbit likes this.
  24. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,299
    Likes Received:
    60
    Any chance for a loot change on peerlesses? (and maybe even doom -gauntlet )
    Also, I'm curious if crimson Cincture's drop the same.. dread horn seems like he never carries a crimson!
     
  25. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Britain [BRIT]

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,399
    Likes Received:
    3,217
    The flip side to that problem is if the players think the content (time/actions spent gathering the keys) is tedious and not worth their time. That would invalidate the gathering content AND the peerless content.

    As a few have pointed out, gathering many of the keys in an exercise in RNG frustration, and is, quite frankly, boring. Consider the amount of time it takes to start a Corgul run compared to a Lady M, Travesty, or Dreadhorn. Dropping off a map and a few minutes of sailing compared to an unknown amount of time due to the fickle RNG key drops. This, of course, doesn't even touch the disparity in the perceived value of the loot, as Corgul drops far more desirable items than any peerless. Another potential invalidation.

    In any event, removing timers from keys doesn't invalidate the content which generates them, after all, someone will still have to engage it to attain the keys. Removing the timers will simply allow those who want to do a peerless run either the liberty to take their sweet time in acquiring the keys, or to purchase them from someone who might find the gathering content entertaining.

    Being able to have a stock of keys, which still have to be gathered anyway, isn't going to harm the game. Less grindy tedium in UO would be greatly appreciated.
     
    #25 Dot_Warner, Jan 22, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  26. Kyronix

    Kyronix UO Designer
    VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    2,611
    These are valid points and I agree fully. One of the driving forces behind making the keys to the Exodus encounter available from a variety of sources was to try and avoid a "grindy" feel to it as much as possible...don't feel like fighting your way to their acquisition? Maybe hop on a thief and steal them instead and get some loot along the way - or craft the one you may be missing.

    I think what any one person considers an acceptable level of "grind" is a very personal opinion, one that ranges from an outright objection to killing more than one of anything to complete complacency and enjoyment when repeating the same task hundreds if not thousands of times. The take away message here, I think, is that there is a balance to be struck between a necessary repeatability but a sufficient level of reward along the way while also providing a broad number of options to appeal to different play styles. Definitely some good food for noodling!
     
  27. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,890
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    I don't think anyone will be against removing timers. Small shards have hard times getting crews together to kill stuff like this. Only if you could update the loot on the old content :) Then I would have reasons to do that again.
     
  28. MissEcho

    MissEcho Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,427
    Likes Received:
    766
    Obtaining the keys isn't the problem. I have no problem with the way the keys are obtained, either with the peerless keys or the exodus keys. My problem is that once you have them you are forced to use them within a week, you can't put them on vendors if you don't need them so that others can buy them, being able to put them on vendors opens up a whole variety of ways people can do the bosses. Quite often you end up with so many of one type but very few of another, eg irk brains v sabix eyes etc, they don't stack when you do have them, at times, I have had 15-20 daggers and 3 robes, waiting to get a set of 6 so that you can then spam in chat for 6 people available NOW to do the boss means you need to have the keys. If you say want to do exodus the first thing people says is 'do you have keys' if the answer is no generally the response is 'don't have time' We don't all know what we are gonna want to do in 4-5 days time, I have collected keys thinking later in the week I will do the boss only to have other stuff in real life crop up, or not having enough online when you do have the time etc etc. The amount of keys I waste is huge.

    Just remove the timer, make em stackable, and let us decide when to do the boss. This takes away any suggestion of having to grind, because people always end up with disproportionate amount of one type of key compared to others, if they can store them the grind disappears.

    Surely removing the expiry date and make them able to be put on vendors is within the capability of the devs. I mean they created them surely they can modify em.
     
    #28 MissEcho, Jan 22, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
    Captn Norrington and Lord Kotan like this.
  29. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2009
    Messages:
    2,730
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    But the 'Grindy' feel was put back in by making all participants have their own set of keys, minus the summoning alter... unlike all the other peerless' where it's one set per group.
     
  30. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,756
    Likes Received:
    689
    So how about you let people combine any of the exact same keys to make one with a duration multiplied by the number of keys added - so two combined last two weeks, four last four weeks? Combined with them being tradeable, that would let people have choices to grind like crazy to stock up for their and their Guilds future use, or buy the ones they want if they can't find the folks to help obtain them through fighting, as well as let the current system of 'let's just go NOW and get keys for somewhere' remain valid too.

    Alternately - make, give or sell us a timelocked chest that means 'timered' items in it do not decay while locked inside, but do when outside. Item count capacity on it can be as high or low as you think works....
     
  31. whiterabbit

    whiterabbit Stratics Legend
    Professional Premium Stratics Veteran Supporter Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter PITMUCK

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    Messages:
    7,748
    Likes Received:
    3,125
    CRAFT ITEMS??? CANT FIND ENOUGH TAINT TO MAKE A SHOE LACE
     
    Sauteed Onion likes this.
  32. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    7,770
    Likes Received:
    1,132
    I don't find the timer a problem. A week is plenty of time to gather several sets when you plan and announce your event on time. Our problem is to many keys of the same type (Altars) . When we gather 30-40 sets for our event we realy don't want to end up with 30 altars. It would be nice if we could exchange unwanted keys on a ratio let say 3 to 1 to a key of our own choice. (Rites are difficult to craft many!)
     
  33. Sauteed Onion

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    512
    It's been mentioned before that making these craftable with "Taint" was rough, because taint is pretty much the most coveted of peerless ingredients for the making of Scrapper's Compendiums. You take a quick gander at what people are asking for 100 taint if you can even find a reliable vendor for it.

    Oh heres a fun music video.
     
  34. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,275
    Likes Received:
    1,575
    Ten altars later today... and I find myself wishing they would decrease the chance of the altar key dropping and increase the chance of the others... :p
     
    Dot_Warner likes this.
  35. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,756
    Likes Received:
    689
    Doubly weird choice to use taint when there are still items dropping in the Abyss that have no function at all ....
     
    Dot_Warner, Sauteed Onion and BeaIank like this.
  36. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,275
    Likes Received:
    1,575
    Aye, like the essence of persistence.
    Even the other peerless ingredients would have been a better pick than taint.
     
  37. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,599
    Likes Received:
    2,055
    You know what invalidates content faster than keys with no timer... 10 year old loot tables. *shrugs*
     
  38. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    For me the issue always has been that there does not appear to be much reason to have the keys timered. No good justification for the present reality exists. It's not like the content will need to be worked any less than it is now, we'll just get to control when and where more effectively.

    As far as I can tell the keys initially were timered to give the Peerless content a "race against time endgame" kind of feel. Problem is, Peerlesses are no longer endgame content, if they ever really were. They're content that's there and you work, just like farming paragon balrons but on a much higher difficulty level. But they are no one's endgame unless you're doing one of them for some specific RP reason.

    And, in that instance, the RP can justify basically anything being endgame content.

    If you're counting on decaying keys in order to provide justification for working the content then....That's just sad.

    If anything my suspicion is that content will be worked more often for virtue of our being able to control when we do it. Remember that as long as there's new characters being made, there'll be some need for Exodus scrolls and Crimson Cinctures and some of the other things that appear on content that now is accessed only through timered keys.

    -Galen's player
     
    Dot_Warner likes this.