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Dear Electronic Arts ...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Capn Kranky, Aug 25, 2011.

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  1. Capn Kranky

    Capn Kranky Guest

    [FONT=&quot]Dear Electronic Arts:[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]I reopened an account some months ago with the idea of giving UO another shot after a short break. Things have been fine so far and I thought I’d reopen some additional accounts and was considering a sub to DAoC, which I had played several years ago.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Then, account management changes come into play. If it wasn’t for the player community on Stratics (LordDog, Petra and Larisa to name a few), I doubt that many would STILL be able to figure out what the heck has happened. I believe that with the exception of a few shining examples, it’s been a classic SNAFU.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Here are issues that cause me to stop dealing with you:[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]1. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]New York[/FONT][FONT=&quot] state sales tax is NOT the 8.25% you tag my accounts with. State sales tax is 4%. With local taxes, it is 8% in my area (other areas differ). Verify this at this page. Enter “W. Bridge Street” (no quotes) as address and 13126 as zip-code. I live within this zip-code and 1.5 miles from the general area of that address.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]People whose locale has no sales tax are being taxed anyway. I’m not sure, but I don’t think that is quite legal. Refund, right? You want cash from us, your refunds to us should be cash as well.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    3. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Persons outside the US are being taxed over and above current taxes already in place! Double taxation? Is this legal? Cash refunds, right? See above.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    4. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]No Community Manager/Liaison presence on Stratics to field some of the questions that have arisen. The players – your customers – solved much of the pain. I love your (in)ability to supply ANY instruction or guidance.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    5. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]While no presence on Stratics or boards for Warhammer, DAoC or SW you could tromp all around the globe touting how really good you are.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    6. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]And how about the folks reporting double billing … or worse multiple billings! If any of these people went overdraft are you going to pay those charges or simply shrug your shoulders and walk away?[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Right now there appears to be no billing information on the one account I have open. I will be stopping by the bank tomorrow to insure that no payment is made to EA/Pogo in any manner henceforth – permanent stop-payment on your stuff. Four additional UO accounts and a DAoC account will NOT be opened/activated.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]The account dies 1 October. I know you won't be heartbroken by one stinking account closure. However if others “walk with the wallet” as they have stated here, then it may be different. But no hard feelings, right? Just business.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Thank you for reading.[/FONT]
     
  2. Kas Althume

    Kas Althume Crazed Zealot
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    I wish i could stop paying aswell. I pay for 6 accounts but barely manage to stay an hour in game per month. I dunno why it is so much harder to stop paying for some stupid account than it was to quit smoking...If only they'd screw over my accounts so i'd lose a house .. that would make it easy. :)
     
  3. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Congratulations, hoping you stay smoke-free.
     
  4. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
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    8.25% is the tax rate for Redwood City,CA, HQ of EA. Not sure if this is a billing glitch or if it has something to do with California's Internet tax changes. The same one that Amazon is protesting. Either way, a little communication would be nice.
     
  5. Tinsil

    Tinsil Guest

    I'm guessing it's the latter.. which is why everyone goes over seas!
     
  6. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    A question I would like to know is whether EA has any choice in the matter of charging tax. Tax doesn't go to the companies. At least it usually doesn't.
     
  7. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Taxes do go to the companies, then every so often, they write a check to the Government.
     
  8. Tinsil

    Tinsil Guest

    And pay below what they should through corporate interest loopholes! :spider:
     
  9. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Well I guess that shows my knowledge that area, lol. But my initial question still stands.
     
  10. Capn Kranky

    Capn Kranky Guest

    You're missing one little point ... the tax rate is based on state sales tax, correct? For me, NY state sales tax is 4%. I will and can accept 8% as long as I know the state bounces the correct cash to the county. That still leaves .25%.

    It's not really the cash amount, but the principle of the thing. While they correct all the messed up stuff, why not correctly tax it? As it is, there is a quite good list of overtaxing from this fiasco, not to mention their tax tables are not correct (NY at least).
     
  11. Deb

    Deb Guest

    Not Sales Taxes, what a company collects they have to send to the state
    government. Trust me I know on this one.:scholar:

    And if they do not, the penalties and interest will make them wish they
    had. They also will not have a choice, if the sales tax in Redwood is 8.25
    then that is what they have to charge regardless of where anyone lives.
    As far as I know, this has not changed but is being challenged by other
    internet buy sites.
     
  12. Siteswap

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    So how do you explain them charging sales tax to overseas customers when the tax is already included in the over inflated subscription charge?
     
  13. icm420

    icm420 Seasoned Veteran
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    I agree with you Kranky, Uo is a great game but how long can you put up with this type of crap before you say enough is enough. I have been lucky to have not been double billed or have any issues with my accounts so far. But I realized something.. UO will never get fixed, will never work correctly and will never bring enough people back to it. So why am I PAYING for this?At this point UO should be paying US to play.
     
  14. deadite

    deadite Sage
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    Let's all take a deep breath.... It's not some nefarious plot to steal your money.

    Like everything else going on currently, it's just another bug in the craptacular job they did moving to the new system.

    It'll get straightened out. Don't stress. Getting all worked up over a few dollars isn't worth the strain you're putting yourselves through.

    Now, if in another month or two you haven't been refunded the mis-tax fees, then light the torches and let the classic Uhall mass hysteria begin. :)
     
  15. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
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    Normally the tax rate is based off the customers location, but then again this is California and EA we are talking about so who knows what verbage CA used in their tax ordinance. I noticed that I was billed for one of my semi annual subscriptions and the amount appears to be the same amount as in the past which is without taxes. I guess what we need to do is see if those that were charged tax if it was the same 8.25% and if their state charges tax on internet or online gaming.
     
  16. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    In your own words you re-opened an account and things were going fine so you were going to open more accounts.
    I can only take this to mean that your actual GAMEPLAY is going good. Probably better then good as who wants to re-open more accounts if they arent having fun and things arent going good? I mean it is a game played for fun correct?

    But now because of account migration/accounting issues you are just going to up and quit the game? You never once said that you had GAMETIME issues or that you couldnt log in, etc... so you dont appear to personally have any migration issues based on your statement.

    You are going to quit why? Because of a possible increase of 4% sales tax?
    How many pennies does that add up to each month? Not alot I suspect.

    You couldnt just play the game you admitted to liking without getting all worked up about what is or isnt posted on Stratics by who?

    4% increase in tax is nothing to just ignore but is it really a reason to rant and quit?

    Who cares what any employee says or doesnt say on these boards if you are playing and having fun?

    Whatever happened to simply playing the game you enjoy?

    I can only hope that I am 100% correct in thinking that the dedicated people on these boards represent only a tiny % of actual UO players.
    The funny part is that alot of the dedicated people ranting on these boards dont even still play the game.
     
  17. Some people, and I'll count the Capn as one,
    Know the difference between the business of Gaming/entertainment
    and the business of Accounting and Money handling practices.

    You can d-robe me all day long >ingame< (well, not >you<, just for example):talktothehand: no problem, known part of the game.

    You touch My rl money, in any way shape or manner NOT agreed to, you should know, that is NO GAME.

    You either ^know that^ and are trolling(deliberately posting in a manner for the purpose of angering and/or insulting)
    Or
    You are ignorant ^of that^ and just got "schooled"

    yw
     
  18. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I can relate there ...... seems I play less and less.... and now it's costing me more and more... and I'm starting to wonder... is it still worth it?

    Where has the FUN gone... its long since turned to FrUstratioN...

    I'm trying to justify the expense of my 8+ accounts and I'm thinking ..... hum...... used to be that UO was my release..... my way of relaxing.... I enjoyed the RP, PvP and Community...

    The RP is rare and hard to find anymore... save my Tuesday night Salvation with the EM's... PvP is no longer possible for me thanks to my ISP and the cheating... (Yes it's still there)... and what was a good community filled with a great many decent folk has turned to a community of whiners and complainers who want nothing but items that they can sell on vendors for insane amounts most normal players could NEVER afford.... They scream and hollar whenever they don't "get" anything they attend meetings just to be vulgar and rude ...... and make money... they care not for the event or the other players attending... Makes me just want to turn the game off...

    Once not so terribly long ago..... folk cared about the community more than the Profit. Now it's all about what it's worth... rather than what it can do for the community.

    Before I could hardly wait to log into UO and get together with my friends.... enjoy some RP and even some fighting... good ole PvP with purpose... Now I wonder what I log in for. Most my old friends are long gone and so is the "fun"...

    I spend most my time Fishing, T-Hunting or working skills..... alone. And I ask myself.... you know if I wanted to play a game alone.... I'd play a single player game like Sims... I play ..... or at least I used to play UO for the community..... and the friends....

    Now most all that is gone. Not sure it's worth paying the extra cash for.
     
  19. Capn Kranky

    Capn Kranky Guest

    Thank you Fayled and you are correct. A game is fun up until wallets (yours, mine, <points> theirs) are hit with incorrect and/or multiple charges with NO ONE responding to them as to why, how and what will the resolution be.

    Those of us on these boards ARE a minority of the playerbase I am sure ... but the amount of screwed up accounts, billing and issues is far in excess of an acceptable percentage of errors.

    Again, follow the money ... accounts (money) are being impacted when they should not be. Goldberg ... one should not muck with the family or the money. Right? If EA can screw up several person cashflow, why won't it happen to you or me? I am heading off the possibility of that EVER happening to my wallet.

    Thanks again Fayled for a good job of knowing me. <bows>
     
  20. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    What Is Taxed? California's SUT is imposed on the retail price of tangible personal property sold to final purchasers (unless specifically exempt). It does not apply to either real property (for example, houses) or intangible personal property (such as stocks or items sold in digital form). Services are also generally exempt from direct SUT taxation, although they can be indirectly taxed to the extent that their value is incorporated into the final value of the tangible products they help produce. The SUT is typically collected and remitted by sellers to the administering state agency—the California State Board of Equalization (BOE). When collecting the SUT, sellers generally apply the tax rate in effect where the transaction occurs.
     
  21. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Too funny. A couple of wannabe wiseguys/girls.

    I also do not like losing or giving away money.

    But if I ever get to a point in my life where an extra .50 cents a month affects me in ANY way I will ask someone to please shoot me lol. I mean we are talking about an extra .50 spent on online gaming here folks.

    Talk about your .50 cent principles all you want but if it is really that big a deal to you maybe your real issue is that you just cant afford the game in the first place?

    But my real question here is why did the OP feel the need to publicly rant instead of just quietly quit?
    A little need for attention maybe?
     
  22. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Absolutely no qualms with what you are saying here at all, but I take that idea and move in another direction. Instead of wondering where these things went, or quietly fading into the abyss, be conductive to the community you seek. With out people to start a community, one never happens. With out leaders a people can not follow. I personally try to be "The" community, and if all works as planned others will become a part of it, eventually you weed out the bad people.

    Sure there will always be those sour people, but we promoted them taking over the game by quietly standing by, or those that have left.

    Uhm, this is the 4th time this has happened, and this time there is an actual reason for it, we know it, they know it, they have in fact posted on their "ACTUAL" Website about it, and it is being worked on (They do seem incompetent to actually fix it, but hey I never said they could fix it, just that they are trying.)

    So what is your complaint again? Not getting enough 1 on 1 time with a Developer this month? The tax thing is a small thing, and guess what we were told about it, a long time ago, simply because you never saw it come to fruition does not mean you were not told.

    The multiple billing issue is a problem, along with some other problems with the billing system on a whole, but this is not the first time it has happened and they always fix it. (refund the money? Or did they just give you game time equal the amount you paid for? I am not sure as I was not a victim of this.) This does not excuse the situation, but you are bringing it up now as a point of reference for your "quitting" so I thought I would point out it has happened several times over the past decade and that didn't seem to stop you before, or stop you from re-activating.

    I have to question why you posted about it, even more so why you posted about "quitting" now, it serves no real purpose other than a discussion/debate/argument on Stratics, and as I pointed out the merits of the whole thing are a little debased.
     
  23. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I'm wondering because I long held the candle so to speak for community on my shard... for YEARS I held that candle... trying to promote community and RP... and foster good interaction and events... I've supported all sorts of events and things... I've held numerous events... eventually though I got sick of having things spoiled by obnoxious brats.

    And seems anymore folk don't want to come to events and things if you aren't giving away 10's of millions in items and gold.

    I did events for fun... for something to do as a group and community... not to go broke or make someone a multimillionaire.....

    I honestly am disgusted anymore by the behavior of a majority of players on my shard.

    Most of the decent players have been run off by poor management on the part of EA... and the lack of customer support... not to mention the fact that criminals seem to have free reign in UO.

    Most of the folk who were good decent folk left after years of disgust with the game and the lack of customer service... Bugs, Cheaters, Hackers, foul mouthed brats, and Scammers have driven away a large portion of the playerbase........ as well as disgust with the Graphics or lack there of... out dated and antiquated system that allows so many cheats...

    You name it... I'm tired of watching friends quit and not being able to argue the logic of leaving a sinking ship.

    I suppose I'm still waiting on a miracle...... but I'm having doubts it will every come...
     
  24. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Goldberg-

    It ain't a measly 50 cents. Some of us are paying $1.17 tax per account. In my case it adds up to $7.04 PER MONTH! Also it can have ramifications.

    Okay, Oklahoma passed an internet tax law, in the very spirit of our Oklahoma Legislature it's as squirrelly as a pecan orchard!!!

    It say only tangible goods are supposed to be taxed.

    However since EA has taken it upon themselves to tax me; I am now required as per Oklahoma law to PAY THE BACK TAXES ON MY UO ACCOUNTS, going back to the passage of the law February 2010.

    Okay so at the rate EA is taxing me: $7.04 per month multiplied by 17 months
    comes out to $49.28. That's the equivalent of 3 and one half months of UO!!!

    :bs::bs::bs::bs::bs::bs::bs::bs::bs::bs::bs:

    I'm gonna fight the tax. If it means closing all six accounts so be it. You sir are what I call "Sheeple". You lay down and let the big businesses, politicians, etc walk on you, take a big ole country CRAP on you, screw you and then they don't even call to say thanks.

    Then you have the unmitigated gall to sit back and berate others who don't "go with the flow".

    Why, I bet you even voted for "O-Bummer"! So how's all that "Hope And Change" working out for you? Not worth a damned for me.

    Goldberg there were once another group of people that fought unfair taxation........


    THEY'RE CALLED OUR FOUNDING FATHERS!!!

    Now stuff a Big Mac in your pie-hole and be quiet!

    Capn Kranky- I'm behind you all the way,bro!
     
  25. Capn Kranky

    Capn Kranky Guest

    You still do not get it do you? I don't care too darn much for it either ... I can afford that. But others in Europe are being TAXED on top of a price that ALREADY includes VAT. That's double taxation ... so far with no idea from EA what will be done about it. Persons in the US have had double/multiple billings to their bank when it was NOT supposed to occur.

    In actuality - and I checked locally - ONLY NY tax should be getting charged to my account. That's 4% or $2 and some change per month too much being taken from my bank account. For how many years now? The 8.25% NY taxes EA levies are for NYC/Yonkers area which is over 300 miles from where I am. It has been incorrect since day #1.

    My point - seeing as how you have missed it - is that EA is bumbling around after making statements that CC info etc are not damaged, yet there is obvious damages monetarily to the playerbase.

    I should be able TO SEE my CC info as well as edit it. Any decent maintenance function allows for that. But not EA. I will not blindly depend on them doing a damn thing right. I will prevent my bank account from getting any sort of hammering like others have already gotten.

    I speak only for myself, but I get impressions that others are thinking similarly. Play your game, as will I for the duration. I hope your bank account does not suffer like others have.
     
  26. PitrGri

    PitrGri Guest

    Just say you live in a Country with no taxes... then you get to pay $10 per month.

    Pick a random one... say... Iceland.

    Aren't we all citizens of the world?

    This is called Free Market... and Global Economics.

    (this should solve everyones problem, you just dont get to vote on the Icelanders government... :p )
     
  27. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Thank You :)
    I knew an addict would have to chime in.

    I purposely only represented the .50 as that is the difference on ONE account.

    People with enough cash to maintain numerous accounts have what issue about an extra .50 per account? Lmao.

    And btw, the .50 is correct as were were only talking about the 4% difference. Not the entire amount of tax that was already correctly calculated.

    As I said earlier. If your personal issues are multiplied because you have a slew of accounts maybe the real problem is your addiction or rate of pay? And not the .50 per account.
     
  28. Siteswap

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    Utter BS.
     
  29. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I have to assume this letter has been actually sent, since the people it's addressed to don't read here.

    Turning on each other isn't helping anyone, so since that's what's happening in this thread now I think it's time to end it.
     
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