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Death, just another debuff now?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Mervyn, Jun 9, 2013.

  1. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    When UO first started, there were no 120 skills so for a player to res another player it wasn't just a press of a button.
    There was no item insurance, no ability to instantly loot your own corpse and no lower reagent cost suits.

    With all the slow changes over time, death has become just another debuff, no big deal, you can die and get ressed instantly no matter where you are. You can even log out and save your pet when you die.

    I think death should give you more of a penalty, perhaps just a 10 minute stat loss or some kind of penalty other than losing 5k gold.
     
  2. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Thats a terrible idea. What would be the benefit of such a change? Would it increase fun? No.

    And dying in the olden days was not a big deal. At worst you lost your stuff, and went back to the brit forge, or your bank, got another crafted set of plain armor and a katana or whatever and went back to it. Not the getting ressed was hard. If people couldn't cast res with magery, they could use a scroll.

    The game has changed.
     
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  3. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    Uvtha, by your logic everyone should be completely invincible all the time, this game is just too easy now. In the past if you died somewhere you'd have to run around looking for a healer, now you can just tell someone your location in general chat (even though you're dead).
     
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  4. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Your post clearly can't be in reply to Uvtha's because it bears no obvious relationship to that post.

    Your idea is rather terrible. Skill loss was a constant complaint of dying in Factions, stat loss was a constant complaint of dying as a red (hence they eventually got rid of it).

    There's actually nothing about your idea that defeats the logic of death being a de-buff. It just changes the nature and type of the de-buff.

    Indeed nothing can satisfy your own logic short of perma-death. And that, also, would be a terrible idea.

    -Galen's player
     
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  5. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    Also I forgot to mention the insta dress and the self ressing that is now possible. Death is just not even a negative anymore.
     
  6. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
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    Death pisses me off actually, whether by being unprepared, game crash,or beit my own fault for not paying attention.try dying while getting dreadhorn keys,it's a long walk.
     
  7. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    *FACEPALM*

    Death really was never a big deal. As with Uvtha, Im not sure what you would hope to accomplish by making death more unfun. I think this is one of the "troll the forums cause Im bored and have nothing better to do" posts.
     
  8. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Not at all like being teleported to the only shrine that can rez you when you die in a dungeon, something that never would've happened before.

    Oh, wait.

    Or like having the major Fel dungeons connected to make leaving and getting rezzed easier. That'd never have happened before.

    Oh wait.

    Or like having the one real penalty for dying as a red removed. Never happened, folks were tough back in the day.

    Oh wait.

    Or like scattering healers throughout the wilderness to make rezzing easier. No sir-ee, damn it, in my day we had to run all the way to town or to a shrine!

    Oh wait.

    Etc.

    -Galen's player
     
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  9. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Or he killed someone and then saw that someone walking around slightly sooner than he would have liked. Or that someone taunted him post-mortem and doesn't find being taunted as jolly fun as taunting.

    -Galen's player
     
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  10. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Insurance loss and losing non-blessed and non-insurable items is the penalty and is enough as it is. Truly this thread isn't serious...
     
  11. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Mervyn is pulling your leg, he spends most of his playing day dead
     
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  12. funkymonkey

    funkymonkey Lore Keeper
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    Wise words from Mervyn, i couldnt agree more.

    We need more players like him.

    UO = Easy these days :<
     
    #12 funkymonkey, Jun 9, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
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  13. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    UO is easy now a days..but death isn't the issue, it's most other stuff
     
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  14. Mervyn

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    I think only being able to get resurrected once an hour is fair game.
     
  15. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    So you think that when a stealther pop shot res kills you..or when you client after fresh res and you die you should be screwed for an hour? No thanks
     
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  16. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Why?
    How many hours am I expected to play that I can only get ressed once an hour? What if I only have half an hour a day to play?
     
  17. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
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    Nonsense thread,even for me, please lock
     
  18. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    But that wouldn't be fun either. So my logic doesn't really go to that place. The game may be easier now than it was (in some ways) but basically forcing people to stop playing for 10 minutes because they died is just drastic overkill.

    And in the past I just icqed/aol chat a friend or guildie to tell them I'm dead. Very little difference.
     
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  19. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    lol Merv, nice to see you back :)
     
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  20. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Got a better idea. How about all this should only apply to Mervyn and everyone else can keep playing the game the way it is.

    So Mervyn, everytime you die you can only resurrect once an hour.
     
    #20 Viper09, Jun 9, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
  21. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    OR - Play the SP shard and buy a cooking timer. Die and set the timer for an hour.
     
  22. RaistlinNowhere

    RaistlinNowhere Slightly Crazed
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    +100 ( because i can only hit the like button 1 time T_T )
     
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  23. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    Really? o_O Give me an example of game(s) that makes death a penalty to that extreme? Hell I could cross that limit within 30 minutes
    trying to key dreadhorn.
     
    #23 Fridgster, Jun 9, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
  24. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    Mervyn, really does have some funny idea.
    If the game aren't hard enough for you, Try fighting without youre 10 stealth archer friends, and maby lower the numbers of youre summoned pixies to 0 ?
     
  25. Lady CaT

    Lady CaT Seasoned Veteran
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    Really? That often? I was thinking once a decade for you? :)
     
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  26. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
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    The context is screwing up the argument. You people assume this is a game. NEWS: It's not a game folks! The line between game and real life is getting a little blurry. UO is on the forefront of that transformation.
     
  27. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Dumbest statement ever made on this board and quite obviously nothing more then a troll/taunt.

    Nothing like being forced to log off for an hour for no other reason then a client crash.

    Next time you start a thread for no other reason then to try and get a rise maybe you could at least do us the courtesy of thinking it through for 3 seconds?
    Or do you get excited when a couple other idiots hit the 'like' button?
     
    #27 Goldberg-Chessy, Jun 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2013
  28. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    Yeah, way too easy. Bring on perma death. Char gets instantly deleted upon dying. Would that be hard enough for you?
     
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  29. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    The idea of being dead for an hour at a time ... ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR EVER LOVING TREE???!!!!

    1. The loss of an hour of valuable game play for most right there will end their UO game play life.
    2. Think of all the players who are in an Event... they die in the droves... 1 hour would make it a very short event.
    3. Death would mean you loose everything not insured on your body... as your bones last barely 2 to 4 minutes (not sure how long these days - I avoid loosing life...)
    4. Players die all the time in pvp.... you would kill off that in a heart beat...
    5. Think of your own life in game if this ludicriss idea went of... I wouldn't give you 1 minute to live for the rest of the game... if you think rez kill was good then you haven't seen anything yet kiddo...

    Take it from me you don't want this to happen....
     
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  30. Another Lamer

    Another Lamer Journeyman
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    I agree with Mervyn, death is far too easy now.

    Its just the accumulation of benefits such as:
    - Instant loot corpse
    - 100% lrc suit
    - arrows in blessed quivers

    Back the in old days you could at least 'disable' a player by stealing a few vital items off their corpse such as healing regs.

    I mean seriously, in the game a dead player goes "OoooOOo OOo oOOo" in the same breath they suddenly realise that they are not typing in general and shout out "Mervyn you lame speedhacking ****, stop using ******* fairys!"

    So the whole death system is broken from the point resurrection to the basics of communication.

    In actual fact, as this game is so very very broken, why don't we make dead players a viable playable option:
    - Only dead players can ride an ethy
    - All items stay with a ghost in "spiritual" form
    - Dead players only inflict half damage.
    - You can only kill a ghost (again) with an undead slayer........dunno what a dead ghost looks like but im sure the devs can come up with something (maybe you have to rez them twice).

    You know....the game is broken.....lets break it a little more and move over to SotA next year.
     
  31. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Yet another guild member from Mervyns guild. You will notice the only 2 people agreeing are both people who play with Mervyn.

    If you don't like the game go play something else you do like
     
  32. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Could you imagine if they had their way?
    We would be all dead and everything would be lootable and we would be unable to rez for that hour....
    I would see UO in under a weeks time close down as EA fires every one at mythic.
     
    Winker likes this.
  33. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Gee why don't we just make the game even less fun..... and less fun until we drive off ALL the players... cause that's just what UO needs..... to shut down...

    (end sarcasm)
     
  34. SlobberKnocker

    SlobberKnocker Slightly Crazed

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    death is fine the way it is. as it is guys get frosted when they cant get a rez for 2 min due to heat of battle.

    no rez for an hour? pretty absurd if you ask me. did you really give ur initial post thought prior to writing that down?
     
  35. atinycow

    atinycow Adventurer

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    No modern fantasy MMO of any real success even has the potential for item loss. Nobody has even explained what harsher death penalties are supposed to accomplish in game design terms, besides satisfying their own masochism.
     
  36. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    There is currently no such cooldown for resurection, you can be resurected in the heat of battle or if you are criminal.

    A couple of players on these forums seem to be under the impression that I want to ruin the game for them and others. This is really not true. Who among you will complain that I bought all the Buffs and Debuffs to the classic client?
    The changes I request are ALWAYS for the benefit of the community. A couple of people make accusations of "trolling" however some of you posters should think twice about whom you are attacking. I got more people to reactivate their accounts these last few months than any paid promoter. So don't ever think that I'm not passionate about the game.

    Also don't be thinking that I'm 'Whining'. In my next training video I'll be sure to mention that I am pleased with the bug fixes that the dev team have made and I may talk about how overall I'm pleased with the current state of the game.

    It may be true that not a single thread I've started has ended without being locked (and I'm under no illusions that this will be the exception), I'd like to get in before the lock and say that where there is smoke there is fire. I'll ask some of you a question: who among you tamers has ever been more annoyed about the death of your pet than your own character's death? And have you ever risked your own character's life to save your pet? If the answer to either of these is yes then doesn't that tell you something about how little in game death means? Surely your own death should be of more consequence than that of your pet.

    I made two suggestions on giving death a penalty. Some may say they were too extreme (incidentally I did NOT suggest that you would have to wait an hour to be ressed after death, i suggested one resurrection per hour, that is not the same thing) , but you cannot argue that through time death has slowly become less and less of a big deal. I'd like to just snap that wondering typewriter back into position.

    I'd like to end that back in my day, resurrection was a big deal, even after 3 days.
     
  37. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Once upon a time, back in MY day, killing an ettin for 100 gold was a big deal. But what you said is a load of bull, and you know it. Players ressing each other, maybe, when a Famed master mage was something. But it was never a "big deal" to run to the nearest town, or run into a wandering healer. After getting PKd in Covetous, and not sure where I was going, I realized I was in East Brit after not too long.

    So to your idea that would cripple gameplay for some people: no thanks. Even if your idea were the least bit reasonable, does it take into consideration client crashes, lag or dropped connections? Even the best broadband connection can suddenly go out for a minute.

    You've been massively outvoiced by everyone else, from across the entire UO spectrum, so you can give it up now. Like with those who call for an end to insurance, you're perfectly free to play the way you'd like the game to be.
     
    #37 The Zog historian, Jun 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2013
  38. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Chill my Uhall friends. This is a discussion. Mervyn... I play factions on Siege. There is no greater penalty in the game than stat loss and a dry loot. I understand where you are coming from.
     
  39. HoldenCaulfield

    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Crimson Savages CLAN

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    Agree! Mervyn, come to Siege, it may have a majority of what you seek. Not a 100%, but there is always compromise in anything.
     
  40. Sprago

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    What you need to do is play Siege Perilous then, when you die here its more difficult then just getting a res and get back into play , we have no insurance. We fully resuit when we die.

    Factions do provide stat loss why not give those a try when you get there

    We have everything you claim to want come give it a try with us
     
    #40 Sprago, Jun 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2013
  41. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I don't care what they do on normal shards but Siege was born without stat loss and should stay that way as we have no item insurance.
    I don't care if normal shards get back a temp version of stat loss, but it may help Siege as we will gain more players again :p
    Noone like stat loss
     
  42. PwnySlaystation

    PwnySlaystation Lore Keeper
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    Mervyn wouldn't be calling for this if everyone else ran as many stealthers on europa as his guild.
     
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  43. THP

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    This is so true.....i go thro felluca like i own the place on a blue that couldnt fight if he even tried...so what if i get killed.....who gives a damn i lose nothing....like the man says..who cares anymore if u die in UO....its a few gold coin insurance..rez and back to action...
     
    #43 THP, Jun 11, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
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  44. atinycow

    atinycow Adventurer

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    Who cares? What actual game design issue is being improved if you kick everyone in the wang because they died? Pretend you don't play the game, pretend you never played the game, pretend you're a total outsider analyzing the system. How does UO become a more fun/successful game based on any of this?

    It doesn't. It's just some oldheads congratulating themselves on how tough they were in a videogame in 1998.
     
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  45. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Faction Stat loss killed PvP.

    In the good old days fights ran on for hours. You died, your team mate ressed you up you got your loot from your body and got back into the fight. Those were the fun battles and you would have 50+ people in despise all fighting against each other. Faction stat loss made fights last 5-10 minutes then too many people were in a 20 min stat loss, so the battle ended and that was it for the next 20-30 minuets, nada, nothing, zero activity. People got tired of waiting and logged out. This contributed to people leaving the game as there was too much down time and not enough fighting.

    When people only have an hour or two game time a night they dont want to spend it in stat loss or waiting for a res.

    Mervyn knows this, he complains there is not enough people to PvP with in the first place and he knows this would give him less people to play with. Hell he has just come back to the game cause he was bored and there was very little PvP before he left.
     
  46. Lord Gandalf

    Lord Gandalf Babbling Loonie
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    I must agree with merv except for the 1h timer & stat loss on non factioners :O

    This game is becoming too easy and pvp is beoming consisting on numbers - players getting quick res in champ area is the problem!!!

    Lets try to look at this problem from a different angle.

    Im not offending pvpers who die a lot... but... lets take a look at the dev old fixes:
    What happened to the exorcism spell (necro)??? they ditched it. Was it really necessary to remove such an awesome spell??? Why not improve it?

    Exorcism Spell Fix should be imop:
    -Once exorcism casted, every ghost in the champ area should get teleported to a shrine carelessly if his corpse is in the area or not.
     
    #46 Lord Gandalf, Jun 11, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
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  47. PwnySlaystation

    PwnySlaystation Lore Keeper
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    The only reason mervyn and his guilies (another lamer and zchosen) agree is the sheer number of stealthers they have on their team ensure alot of easy gank kills.



    You say a 1 res per hour timer is a good idea, have you thought about the cons to this?

    If you want pvp and the opponent is killef pretty quick or reskilled ruining their timer, you then have no one to fight for an hour.


    I know this may seem like a hard to grasp concept for any of you in PRO as youre are all dire 1 vs 1 but some people like to solo pvp. Why should they be penalised just because youre all too wussy to leave your stealth gank squad?
     
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  48. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
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    I propose that some sort of stat gain should be tied to your fame level. Perhaps the tiers could be at 10000, 12500, 15000, 20000. That way, if you die and lose fame, you would lose the stat advantage you earned as you crossed these thresholds. Fame gain in combat may need to be tweaked, as some monster gains are out of whack. Your starting stats would never be penalized, but loss of stats gained at the thresholds would be lost. Such a system would make dying something to avoid.
     
  49. PwnySlaystation

    PwnySlaystation Lore Keeper
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    And before anyone pipes up I continuously make you all either run for the hills whenever its just us on screen or you call in more people. You all lack brave playstyles thats why youre calling for such a ******** change. Statloss is in factions because there is supposed to be benefits in factions, ie items, perhaps if you want more people to statloss you should ask them to make factions more appealing or play less gimpy stealth dismount characters.

    Or wheb there are other factioners dont only run 1 faction stealther and the rest non faction chars like you were doing not long ago before mervyn was back.
     
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  50. PwnySlaystation

    PwnySlaystation Lore Keeper
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    Also I find it odd that you oppose continuous pvp? The best fights are the ones that go on for ages because people are ressing up, which youreselfs are quick at doing when you die, do uou guys dislike pvp that much that you wanna pvm and hour between fights?