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Deathstrike This...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Vyal, Mar 17, 2012.

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  1. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    Has anyone ever encountered a person that deathstrikes you 5 times in 5 seconds and each deathstrike hits you for 50 damage? you just sit there and say why.. WHY? WHY?!!!!

    C'mon there is not one person out there who isn't thinking why are these people hitting me for 50 damage non stop for only 7 mana?
    Just discuss....
     
  2. O'Brien

    O'Brien Thought Police

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    I guess I'd be thinking why don't I have that on my template? :sword:
     
  3. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    Why?!!!
     
  4. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    Why? Because Ninjas are awesome.
     
  5. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    so you had 250 heath for him to hit you 5 times at 50 dammage each time within 5 seconds. Maybe its your template we need to copy
     
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  6. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    It seems to me that you do not want anyone to have any offense or defense that is effective against your templates that you use in PvP. You seem to not want to have to change your tactics to win.You want PvP on your terms alone.
     
  7. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    You didn't die after the first four? You have 200+ health? Hacker.

    Either that or you're exaggerating because you're butthurt that someone killed you.

    I know which one I suspect.
     
  8. EDA_GL

    EDA_GL Journeyman
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    I have a CRASIE idea...
    Don't run when you hear WACHA, it'll tick for 7.
    Yes, it as a typo. Be proud!
     
  9. Eddie123

    Eddie123 Adventurer
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    your pets didnt kill the ninja ?
     
  10. Krinkle

    Krinkle Journeyman
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    Wow, I'm glad I have a Bestial Suit.
     
  11. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    No offense but when an exaggeration like this is used (seriously 5 times in 5 seconds for 250 points?) It kinda makes me wonder if the bestial suits really needed that much of a nerf. Kinda maddening to be honest. I also hope that the devs see this as well before implementing the new nerf on the bestial suits. It pretty much made them worthless in pvm, not that they were that great for it to begin with.
     
  12. NBG

    NBG Lore Master
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  13. Maximus Neximus

    Maximus Neximus Lore Keeper
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    will.i.am
     
  14. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    Exaggeration? There is no timer on deathstrikes and is the only thing in the game without a cap, o and did I say they only cost 7 mana to use & did I say there is no timer? so I should have said once every 1.3 seconds or something like that, does it really matter when someone is disarming and chaining deathstrikes on you back to back to back to back... you get the picture, each of them does 50 damage. Yup this was one thing that made the beastial suit OP, just one thing.
     
  15. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    simple, dont run when death struck stand your ground and fight, then its only 10 dammage. Learn to PvP stop running away when death struck
     
  16. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    problem solved, disarmed bleed, deathstruck with 10 people on you. Wish my dragon could still do 50 damage fire breath, meanwhile deathstrikers can spam it like they do. And if I recall ever since this has come out it has been nothing but a problem while EVERYTHING else that does that much damage has been nerfed the deathstrike still has NO TIMER. I don't care if they can do 50 damage but to be able to spam it non stop for 7 mana.
     
  17. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Vyal? You are the guy saying that you can no longer win 1 vs 10 is wrong? I really have a hard time taking you seriously anymore. Just saying.
     
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  18. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    First of all it's 30 base mana and only lmc reduces its mana cost since it's not a special move. That being said, it's 18 mana per attack. Also you keep saying 50 damage, that's only possible if they are max stealth ninja and hiding which if that's the case they don't have resist, so mana vamp them and they can't do that. Also try standing still so it only hits for ~14.

    Next if someone hits a death strike again before the previous death strike does damage it resets the timer on the damage, so if they unloaded ds ds ds ds ds ds, you only take 1 death strike damage of the ~14 or ~46 depending on how you played it.

    Lastly if you're complaining about disarm I don't know what template you're playing but you can always add wrestle or Anat/Eval for a mage and if you're a dexer you can disarm back or add wrestling If you hate it THAT much.
     
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  19. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    So no one has a problem with people doing 50 dmg deathstrikes? with no timer...? while EVERYTHING else has been capped?
     
  20. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    You are causing it to be 50 damage by moving more than you should after getting hit by the deathstrike. Plant your feet and disarm your attacker,and chug if you have to. Running away is what is causing you to take that much damage.
     
  21. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    You're not grasping something, first of all it IS capped at 50(with the exception of EO but that works on everything so that argument is null and void). As I said before if they keep spamming it it doesn't do damage unless they let the 3 seconds pass. So if you hear the deathstrike sound over and over with no pause in between then you're only taking 1 deathstrike.

    Also you ignored the fact the only you to obtain 50 damage death strikes is maxing out all the ninja skills and you can't do that AND have resist(a template thats viable at least). So again if you're a mage go in prot and mana vamp. Now they can't do any of those specials that bother you so much.

    No need to thank you me, you're welcome.
     
  22. Phangs_of_Phage

    Phangs_of_Phage Journeyman

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    The DP deathstrike template is OP. Puts out way to much damage and allows for insta stealth when there mana gets low. Deathstrike, DP, and Mortal all need cooldowns. When sleep came out and there was no cooldown on it vs no resist dexers everyone cried until it got a timer.
     
  23. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    You think that's OP and not the ability to just run away and vanish at the drop of a hat? I would have no problem fighting that on a dexer or mage so long as it is in the arena, where they can't jump ship when their terrible template can't kill you.
     
  24. Phangs_of_Phage

    Phangs_of_Phage Journeyman

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    you missed half the post where i also stated how the template allowed them to insta stealth away if there initial mana dump didnt kill the target.
     
  25. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    Clearly I didn't since it's in my first sentence. As I said it's only the ability for that template to run away, not the dp mortal or deathstrike. Again my point is very clear that the template itself is horrible when they have to fight.
     
  26. Phangs_of_Phage

    Phangs_of_Phage Journeyman

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    Its the ability of the template to vanish nonstop until the RNG favors them and all there blows land and your forced to be a sitting duck. The other 10 times you fight them they just vanish. But it only takes that 1 time for the RNG to favor them to make you a sitting duck.
     
  27. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    So... this template wins one out of ten times... and it is over powered?
     
  28. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    So sounds like the root of the problem is the running away/smoke bombs, that's what i'm getting out of this. If the temp was so OP it would do fine in the arena, from what we agree on that's not the case. Glad we solved that.
     
  29. Phangs_of_Phage

    Phangs_of_Phage Journeyman

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    No, its the templates ability to vanish and not lose the 9 out of 10 times it should. They can instastealth regen mana and roll the RNG countless times until it favors them.
     
  30. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    If they run away, is that not a win? I consider every encounter I get away from and keep my stuff a win.
     
  31. Phangs_of_Phage

    Phangs_of_Phage Journeyman

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    not when its faction fights and they keep coming back and back and back until you end up stat when they should have died 5+ times
     
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  32. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    So you've confirmed it for us, it's the fact that they run away a lot and smoke bomb. Because to me running away a lot isn't a powerful template.
     
  33. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Uhh, I think the only problem that anyone has is listening to you grossly exaggerate & whine because you obviously lack vet pvp skills.

    "I can't help the fact that the second I am attacked my first instinct is to run away so please for the love of god Devs nerf Deathstrike"!!
     
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  34. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    Yo listen dude.. It's not that it's one single deathstrike. You can hit three deathstrikes on someone in about 4 seconds. Each doing 50 damage. How do I compete with that as a disarmed archer? Or a disarmed anything.... You fight a group of people and two just do nothing but DP deathstrike, deathstrike,disarm, deathstrike deathstrike deathstrike deathstrike leaving you immobile. Where is the skill in that? Where is the balance? anything at all in pvp doing 50 dmg should be nerfed as EVERYTHING else that does that much damage has been let alone be able to chain it back to back to back to back with 0 timer & no extra mana costs (7 mana), of course everyone had a HUGE PROBLEM with archers deathstriking people and guess what now archers do about 3 dmg deathstrikes. Basically my temp gets killed forcing me to go make a deathstriker because everyone is running this one temp because it's the only temp that has never been nerfed, leaving it far OP.
     
  35. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Then stop running when you get hit with death strike. And if your problem is the 10 people chasing you then obviously you have bigger issues at hand than one maxed out stealth ninja.
     
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  36. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Add wrestle and Parry to your template and stand and laugh at the dethstriker mising every shot. Works for my mage.
     
  37. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Death Strike doesn't stack with itself. Each subsequent Deathstrike in a 3 sec period only refreshes the timer. Deathstrike is the one thing that Stealth Melee really have over the masses of Stealth Archers. Ever try to stealth up right next to a Human/Elf as a Stealth Melee? Even with GM Hiding/120 Stealth, you get detected alot by people who have no skillpoints in Detect Hidden. I've had a Stealth Fencer since before Tram, and am skilled with it so that i can stealth run 80% of the time, only slowing down to a walk to renew Stealth. Deathstrike is also a very good anti-speedhacker move. Hit a speedhacker with Deathstrike, and they drop deader than snot on a door knob before they knew what hit them.
     
  38. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    THIS , as i've stated before, is the problem with it. It's not a insta-win technique, it's a harassment technique to wear you down as you essentially can never quite get the kill shot on them before they disappear, meaning fighting them is

    1. a total waste of time.
    2. a total waste of resources.
    3. impossible to win in a way that matters (loot, faction points) and not just "yay! IR winner" world of warcraft style
    4. once you've "won" and they run off, they're back 10 seconds later still not in stat due to not being finished off.

    Since form the last publish FINALLY toning down the ridiculous beastial suits it seems the devs MIGHT actually be listening to what's driving a lot of people away from pvp in UO, ninjitsu is one of them and HAS been one of them since SE launch, bush has had nerf after nerf afer nerf throughout the years, mostly as a side effect of them trying to nerf the pvm sampire build, but ninja has gone largely unnoticed though, aside from myst and taming, it's got some of the cheapest and most abused abilities in pvp. Thers very little point to fighting someone over...and over...and over who just "poofs" with the 100% hiding chance smoke bombs whenever they get low on health, and has the only melee ability in the game that bypasses the 35 direct damage cap (and for less mana than a lightning strike!, which only even has a CHANCE of doing direct damage at all, but is still capped). Stealth should be about getting the first hit, or escaping once you've broken line of sight, as it was before ninja. (remember back when stealth archers had to skillfully break LOS and draw you around in different directions?) Being able to stay 1 tile from your enemy and leaving the fight instantly whenever you want is utterly broken, especially since it bypasses all skill timers.
     
  39. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    Even though the last few posts just repeated what I said I'll go over this AGAIN with you until you understand it.

    As I stated before if you get hit with a deathstrike and then another one before you take damage from the first it resets the timer on deathstrike and the only damage you are taking is the reduced wep damage(when you use deathstrike your wep hits for less). So until 3 seconds pass you are only taking damage from one death strike. IE if they death strike you 3 times in 4 seconds as you said, you'd only be taking the damage of 1 deathstrike(that damage will be ~14 if you stand still ~48 if you run).

    If you don't like being disarmed, add wrestling or the anat/eval. If you're a dexer then you shouldn't complain about disarm since you can disarm back(unless you're running the worst template ever). Also on your mage just throw para fields. Most deathstrikers that you're describing will stop. Look at you in your para field. Say "LOL". Then realize they are on a worthless template and feel sad and go back into hiding like the worthless dexer they are.

    Now speaking of deathstrikes I'm not quite sure why you're upset that its mana doesn't go up when it's not a special? Are you also upset that no bushido spell doubles in mana either? In addition deathstrike is one of the few things in game that you can fail even at 120.

    If you're playing a ninja as your main you're just making excuses. It's not an amazing template and most people that run these bad templates don't even have healing now a days. Play a wrestle tamer, play a parry mage in a reflect suit, throw fields. There are plenty of solutions to a couple deathstrikers. No one feels bad and you need to think outside the box. Work on your teamwork and perhaps try a mage as it will nullify a ninja easily.
     
  40. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    Deathstrikes cost 18 at max lmc. When did lightning strikes get bumped past 18?

    Also you can't smoke bomb whenever you want. It doesn't bypass all skill timers. Try hiding then then two seconds later run out of hiding and try to smoke bomb.

    You can't.
     
  41. Vyal

    Vyal Guest

    It needs nerfed for dexxers just like it was for archers. The entire ninja skill needs fixed. I played against them I know how they work, I went over to TC1 today to just run around on a stealth smoke bombing ninja deathstriker with DP to just annoy people and call them stupid names after I kill them even tho I am only using a 4 button macro template with 0 healing.
     
  42. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    perhaps with smoke bombs they first make the success chance scale based on the users skills. Then perhaps have it cause a Backfire when it fails, "Your smokebomb explodes prematurely and gives you a coughing fit" and have the "coughing fit" maybe cause the user to fall out of Form or maybe even cause a short slow walk. If ya wanted to get extreme maybe make a failed smokebomb cause a short "Strangle" effect?


    As for deathstrike, I remember when they tweaked its damage about 4 or so years ago. When did they throw them changes out? Back then it was changed so it only did an extra hit of like 10-20 hp if I remember correctly. It was changed that way because deathstrike would originally do like 40 damage. Now suddenly they think it needs its damage amount raised to more than it ever was? I understand that players can reach 150 hp alot easier now but thats no reason to have a spell/ability that can take 1/3 of your HP in one shot.

    As others have said, why should one spell/ability be the only one exempt from the 35 pvp damage cap?


    just my thoughts since I dont use ninja on anything other than a stealth thief, so take these ideas with a grain of salt.
     
  43. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
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    It only does more damage when you run. If you stand still its actually more of a waste of mana then a damager. The trick is being able to stand and fight which can get tricky on many temps.
     
  44. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    I apologize, i mixed up the mana calc on deathstrike, I mistakenly applied the -10 mana cost to it that you normally do on specials when someone has the skill bonus (which ninja's essentially get for free, it's one of the only temps where every skill essentially falls under the "warrior" skills, stealth + ninja + weaponskill is almost guaranteed to be over 300...why does STEALTH count!??!). The point on damage still stands, and the timer point still stands, it does not use the hide timer, it seems to use the shorter stealth timer (much like you can re-hide in less time after stealthing).

    Also, to "just stand still" when deathstruck
    deathstrike,disarm,ai,ai,ai
     
  45. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    IMO the problem is more so Poisoning and not DS, very few people complained about Death strike before, If poison wasn't so hard to cure (via interrupt-able/delayed curing methods) you wouldn't need to run from a DS'er as often making them more balanced with the rest of pvp temps.

    Death Strike takes 18 mana for 50ish damage if you have hiding/stealth, and DS Also still has a chance to Fail and still take mana at 120 ninjitsu (about a 12.5% fail rate at 120).

    If you don't run the 5 steps before DS damage is done. DS spammers won't kill you so easily. obviously if you're outnumbered it's going to be harder not to run from DS... but there's no way to say "Hey! that's overpowered!!!" if you never get 1v1 fights.
     
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  46. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    A bushido character falls under the same circumstances. In order for bushido to be worth while for evasion you need parry. Parry+bush+fighting skill = 300.
    The point on the damage, you still haven't acknowledged that it can hit for +50% what AI can hit for, and also -50%...so..on top of the fact no other meele attack can fail at 120 like ds.

    Also you clearly don't know what you're talking about, anyone that has a ninja can confirm. Log in hide, then try to smoke bomb. You will get a message "You must wait to use that item" Aka it won't let you use it and hide right away, you don't ignore the skill timer since you can't use it.

    Next deathstrike lasts 3 seconds, if you're standing still for disarm, ai, ai, ai. Well the fastest you can swing is 1.25 seconds. So you're standing still for longer than you have to.
     
  47. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    Actually when deathstrike first came out it was doing ~70 damage no matter what. Standing still or not. Then the lowered the damage.
    It was also only based on ninjitsu. Now it takes ninja stealth and hiding to be worth while. It use to do 40 if you were maxxed out in those skills for a single deathstrike, but it also use to be stackable(its not anymore, hence if someone hits you ds over and over before the 3 seconds are up they are stupid).The more you deathstruck the harder it hit and could go up to 60ish. Also if you tracked the target which all humans can do for free it would boost your deathstrike 9 damage.

    Now you can no longer stack your deathstrike, and tracking doesn't affect it. They then re-altered the formula using the same skills so ninja adds more damage than hiding and stealth. In the old system my deathstrike hit for 37, if i tracked it hit for 46. In the new system I can't track for more damage but with the same skills I hit for 46.

    Also its not the only thing in game that can hit for over 35. They are talking about direct damage being capped. You said 35pvp damage cap. It's direct damage not "pvp damage cap" There is a difference.
     
  48. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    if ya wanna get anal about it then ya i guess i left the word "direct" out of it.

    and ya the last i tried using a deathstriker was around the time they made it hit for around 40. So maybe they need to retune the damage done by it or place some kind of greater cooldown on using ds. Also maybe a dev or two could jump around the PVP hotspots on various shards during primetimes and just watch what goes on. see for themselves what lame tactics are being used and abused and see the tactics some use to combat them.
     
  49. Driven Insane

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    They should have never added smoke bombs. IMO smoke bombs need a serious adjustment.

    Without the ability to instantly disapear right in front of someone you're fighting, alot of these types of pvp balance issues would not exist.
     
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  50. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    I wasn't splitting hairs about leaving or adding a word, my whole point was there is a difference between direct damage and pvp damage.

    I'm confused as far as what tactic is happening that isn't since deathstrike has been introduced? If they changed it back you realize it can hit over 50 since it was stackable and that tracking adds damage so you could hit just as hard, even if you didn't stack it?

    If you want to reduce the damage a lot then I'd be all for that if they reworked it again where only ninjitsu determined the damage of it. To have to invest 300 skill points for it to hit really weak would be pointless. They'd have to revert to where the damage came from nothing but ninjitsu, in which case I'd be fine with that.
     
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