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Despise changes are progressive, yet don't encourage community interaction

Discussion in 'UHall' started by G.v.P, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I was talking to a friend of mine who quit UO a few months ago in favor of another MMO, and I was explaining the Despise changes. I noted how the idea of an ephemeral vendor seemed progressive, even if the items last a minimum of 10 days, assuming 1 hour flag per day. Great quality items, a currency other than gold, temporary items in a post-PK world. Not a lot of people want temporary items, but the system is an anti-grind if done the right way because you have the opportunity to wait and choose what items you want. Unfortunately, Despise isn't done the right way.

    Initially self-excited about our talk, I went to Despise on my necro mage (Origin shard) only to find three positive karma characters farming the evil side. If I tried to farm the good side I'd unintentionally grief the other players or they would unintentionally grief me (the pet AI attacks other players and other pets if they are on the opposing side of the karma tilt). In other words, the only way to benefit in full from these changes is to play by yourself or match the right karma. Even if you do match karma, you lose out on total farm once you go to war. Hence, another pointless grind.

    What's the point of playing an MMO if you are penalized for participating with others? I'd much rather buy the Wisp items than settle for the (boss fight) artifacts. The bane/ophidian battle was an example of a well developed good/evil Trammel system in which player interaction mattered. Despise could use some work.
     
    #1 G.v.P, Aug 27, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  2. Salivern_Diago

    Salivern_Diago Lore Master
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    Eh ignore my message lol I just read up on the publish so I know what I'm talking about now.
     
    #2 Salivern_Diago, Aug 27, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
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  3. Selurnoraa

    Selurnoraa Adventurer

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    I don't know much about it but I do believe the positive karma players should be down there killing Evil Karma creatures, while the negative karma guys should be up top killing the positive karma guys.

    I think the system is kind of dumb though I agree, this is an extremely easy thing for a player to grief at by simply killing another players minion or just luring it away into large packs of hostile creatures. You really can't do anything if another player tries to kill your minion otherthen throw out heals and hope he gives up.
     
  4. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    First of all its a fight between good and evil, don't expect the other side to be nice to you.

    If this happens just go to a different part of the dungeon and try to avoid the person who trying to kill you and your pet. I had it on TC too one. First i was a bit upset but then a realized that it was my fault to keep going back to the same spot. I was "Evil" and he not and he had all the right to do that.

    Its not easy to make people understand not to run by my pet either. I had a level 15 pet and some good karma player came to see it. I told him not to do that but he did not listen and my pet killed him. But that learned me that when my pet is fully trained just to go to my side and wait for the call of arms.

    Eventually these people will give up. There is not much to gain with it. The real reward is in the War zone .
     
  5. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    When there's a good karma character farming every moongate you can't drag an evil pet through to the good side. It's just a flawed system which caters solo play unless you want to chase the fixed artifacts.

    Even so, the war zone has to be split between all participants. If you want to farm points it's best to go solo, thus defeating any reason to do Despise even while matching karma. Otherwise you need a group to finish the boss, yet you lose out on quite a bit of points in the process because you have to split the points. Then you play the RNG game and you'll either get something useful or nothing useful.

    An example of a great player participation system is the gauntlet. The spawn scales based on the amount of players in the region and instead of a true RNG there's a pseudo RNG which guarantees a drop after awhile. The solo player can have fun and so can the group, and everyone will gain points as they go which will, eventually, result in an artifact drop. If you try to solo Despise you can't kill the boss. If you try to group Despise you'll get unintentionally griefed and then you won't get as much farm.

    To compare Despise to something more recent like Covetous, everyone who participates (actively) in the Wave battle will get an equal amount of points. It's a linear system which doesn't have the complexities of Good vs. Evil but nonetheless it's a great system. If you fight or heal, you'll accrue points. Nothing else to worry about, just MOBA style gameplay (without the opposing minions of course).
     
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  6. Selurnoraa

    Selurnoraa Adventurer

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    I don't really feel that the Ephemeral gear is worth the effort to fit into a suit, I might pick up a few weapons since they can be disposed of pretty easily but I don't want to messs around with the fundamentals of my suit just for a temp upgrade.

    This system would be perfect for Siege Perilous, and its funny that they do not have it.
     
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  7. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    So you can grief to your hearts content yet nothing can be done about it ie: pvp...sigh. How I long for the days of yore.
     
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  8. blinkdog

    blinkdog Adventurer

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    That poll I did a few days ago, 70% of people said that ephemeral gear was a complete non-starter they wouldn't think of using. So... kinda worthless. Then on top of that, you can acquire pets which can KILL PLAYERS IN TRAMMEL? Seriously?!


    http://5.mshcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/lead-toys-lol-******.jpg
     
    #8 blinkdog, Aug 28, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  9. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    A simple fix for the controlled creatures to not to attack other players (and vice versa) will solve this issue. If not, then expect to get griefed since the system allows these types of actions.
     
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  10. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Since ephemeral items decay only while engaged in combat, they hold more value for crafters and characters who won't be seeing much combat. PvPers are expected to perhaps own better equipment in general, and so for the top echelon players perhaps these ephemeral items are not worth the time. However, for the casual player, I think the time sink will depend on whether or not an individual can solo the entire spawn of lieutenants.

    If you solo the entire war spawn twice you should be able to accrue upwards of 1600 points, which should be ballpark as far as buying any single Wisp item. Quite doable on Origin, but I'm not sure about how things will play out on more populated shards.

    I'm pretty sure this ring cost 980 points from the Wisp vendor:

    [​IMG]

    It's not the most amazing ring ever, but it has a lot of nice stuff for a caster. Seven mods and insurable. This gear might be temporary but I feel it's one of the better ways to suit up a character. You could get better, more precise items through an RNG grind, whether farming Covetous LVL 4 or crafting/imbuing with runics until you create the best enhanced item ever, or you can wait for the RNG vendor to sell something that will fit your suit. We can't ever completely get rid of an RNG, but I'd much rather spend two solo sessions in the Despise war and wait for a great item than spend an entire week farming Covetous LVL 4--after spending an entire week creating a luck suit with crafting/imbuing and runics--only to get relic fragments, and nothing to really use due to various penalties or mismatched mods.
     
  11. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    I've added the putrid hearts vs. creature level to the guide, and most of the creatures in the final level have power level 8+ (32+ hearts per creature) which you can easily kill with your controlled creature if you can heal it, so it is quite easy to get 1k dungeon points with only a single despise session which really doesn't take too long (unlike this sentence).

    Edit: Also, since there are like 20 creatures in the final level with high power levels, you can keep training your creature. You can train your controlled creature from level 7 to 10 by only killing three power level 8 creatures and from 10 to 15 by killing about 7.
     
    #11 Nimuaq, Aug 28, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  12. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    The variance of creature level will shape the total, yes. I've seen LVL 4-10 @ war. Always nice to find a 10 :).
     
  13. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    I'm going to try something bold when the next publish comes. I'm going to equip a character with only ephemeral items and see how far i can go with it and what i can do.
     
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  14. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Wait, I thought they made spell weaving circles for community interaction.. 2 4 6. 1 4 6. Good talk.
     
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  15. blinkdog

    blinkdog Adventurer

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    Oh please. No one in the universe is going to go out and grind this nonsense just to gear a mule that can just as easily chop wood in a bargain-basement LRC suit. This is really scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for reasons for this stuff to exist.

    Building a suit in this game is a gigantic pain. People just aren't willing to do it with random temporary items because they don't feel like doing all the math everytime they have to replace anything.

    Now go do the math on a helmet, gorget, tunic, gloves, sleeves, and leggings and make sure you don't leave any gaping holes in your resists while hitting 100 LRC and whatever else you consider essential. You're not going to get all these pieces at once, either, so it's not you like you have to just rebuild your suit once a month. No the items will be wearing out at different intervals, since you got them at different times, and so you'll be farting around comparing resists and other stats probably twice a week.

    Or you can just go buy a cheap LRC suit for like 25k, then use it to scrape up a few hundred k for an LRC suit with some resists and mana on it, then go from there. You know, like normal.
     
  16. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    went into despise on orgin with a guild mate.
    we did it for a while.
    we got killed by 3 positive karma guys while we where training out level 1 pets.

    i think i said in TS that this was tram pvp, haha
    and that is pretty much what it is.

    its pvp..... in tram
    but heaven forbid you should get blood on your hands, no no, so lets do it by proxy.
    lets train critters and have THEM kill someone other blue.
    hehe

    but it was a fun time.
     
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  17. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Eh, you're talking about top-level arty items that will never decay. There's going to be a market. I'd most certainly use +30 magery jewels on a mule. I do that right now because that's plenty enough to use recall. I play a dozen shards and I'd much rather check the Wisp vendor than grind an imbuer on every shard, or worse, try to search through the Luna vendors (especially on shards like Origin).

    Items are probably around 800-2200 points each or so. I was actually going to buy a 17+ in each resist leather leggings w/ DCI and 20 LRC for 1600 points but the Wisp vendor reset so I bought the ring as an impulse item. Anyway, once you buy the ephemeral items you can just put them aside, then use the suit once it's complete. Or you can build a training suit to level out another character. I'm not quite sure why people are saying these items are UP. If anything, they're nerfing 120 imbuers and crafters and Shame loot ;p.

    Then again, if the majority isn't interested in Despise loot then I suppose those who are will profit. Hm. Okay, carry on ;).
     
    #17 G.v.P, Aug 29, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2012
  18. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I spent 720 despise points on this
    ring.jpg

    My scribe would love it.

    I found my 'soldier' had best chance of surviving when surrounded if I put it into defensive mode. I have to admit I didn't get griefed in Despise on Test Center - last time I got griefed in Despise I was a newbie trying to train swords and someone kept following me round the level provoing whatever I was fighting, no matter how many times I abandoned the fight and moved on.
     
  19. Joey Porter

    Joey Porter Guest

    I am thinking this is going to be awesome.

    Farm as many eph items as I can while a hunt. Which is something I would be doing anyway. Then set them aside and make full suits once I have enough pieces. I think those mods are good and it doesnt seem like it is going to take much time to get them.

    Much less time then grinding my imbuer/ingredient gatherer to make the suits/items myself. I am not always in a crafting mood.