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Despise - Griefers paradise :-(

Discussion in 'UHall' started by lancelot99, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. lancelot99

    lancelot99 Guest

    Not sure how this is on other shards, but on Europa we have a group of Neg Karma people going around killing all the monster pets with pos karma then laughing about it...

    Been going on for hours now and makes it pointless to go there !! :rant2:

    What were the devs thinking?
     
  2. Gantry

    Gantry Adventurer
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    I saw one person doing that last night on Atlantic. Funny thing is he got attacked by couple positive karma pets and got killed LOL. I think I will wait and try this again once it's hopefully addressed by the devs next week. I'm sure this is just an oversight since it's on tram rule set.
     
  3. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I think part of it is folk haven't been in there before and if you have your pet on "Aggressive" it'll attack players..... and they naturally attack back.

    I am hoping when folk get the "hang" of this they will realize that people aren't doing it on purpose(hopefully) and they will wait till someone calls their pet off by putting it to "defensive" mode. Allowing others to go off..... and try to stay away from one another when possible. Afterall we all have the same goal and that's to get down to the end and kill the end boss. So... it's good to work together. Hopefully when folk get the hang of things it'll improve.
     
  4. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
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    Yesterday there was a group of ppl on DF that were repeatedly attacking pets in training and luring them into heavy spawn of evil karma pets. One of the reasons they do, is that you get more despsise hearts from trained pets. Had nothing to do with pets set to aggressive. Defensiv setted pets were affected the same way. :(
     
  5. Otis Leroy Funk

    Otis Leroy Funk Journeyman

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    Spoke to a Gm and they said
    It was ok to kill peoples pets and grief other players. This makes no sense to me.
     
  6. lancelot99

    lancelot99 Guest

    "Afterall we all have the same goal and that's to get down to the end and kill the end boss. So... it's good to work together. Hopefully when folk get the hang of things it'll improve"

    I am sorry but these guys only motive was to cause grief and doing the champ was the last thing on their minds.... :rant2:
     
  7. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Well I know there are some real winners like that on my shard too.... I'm hoping they will grow bored with their own idiot behavior and go away soon. Either that or I hope they fix it. I know there were a few who purposely killed my pet yesterday but I also think some of it was just that some didn't have a clue what was going on.
     
  8. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    I got accused of griefing today on Europa. One player kept taming negative karma pets. Every time he ran past me with his grey pet, my level 11 pet kept attacking his grey pets and killing them. I tried invising the pets to no avail. I also tried taking them off attack mode. But nope they would not stop until his pet was dead. I thik he lost 5 pets to me that way. In the end he tried to kill my pet by casting spells on it. But my pet Discoed him and I kept it healed he was unable to kill it. Kinda funny really. But it wasn’t my fault his pets were grey.
     
    #8 Winker, Sep 1, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2012
  9. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    Yeah, I lost some pets this way. But I just learned that the way to train a pet is to hug a spawn zone. As soon as you see someone, change your pet to defensive and get and invis up. You can also paralyze your pet and have him sit still until the other person runs out of range. I finally got a pet to lvl 15 last night on Atlantic using this method. I lost about three or four previous pets in the process of training them, largely due to other players walking by and getting flagged on my pet. BTW, I used my negative-karma necro-mage and all of my pets were Silenni which turned red.
     
  10. lancelot99

    lancelot99 Guest

    And the call to arms'timer needs looking onto!!

    No-one should be left waiting 3+ hours twiddling their thimbs...
     
  11. Lady Mal

    Lady Mal Journeyman
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    You have to make sure you set the wisp in your bag to "conscript" once your pet is leveled enough or it won't pull you in.
     
  12. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Sounds like the Light Demons all over again. Knuckle heads getting on and slowing prime time players progress to get on during the off hours on their mains and get the goodies for early days profits. Things seem to get a later nerf and harder to earn so the early bird gets the gold.
     
  13. Spoontoes

    Spoontoes Guest

    Spent the last 3 hours in there, levelled my pet up as far as it would go, conscripted it - waited about 2 hours, call to arms went off - just as the griefers killed my pet, what a complete load of ****e.
     
  14. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    It wasn't your fault; they'll will aggro by default not because of them being grey, but because they have opposing Karma, and AI creatures have always fought due to that mechanic. It's also why you'll see potential pets at above Level 1, as they'll automatically fight any opposing creatures on their level. Furthermore, if someone is Karma flipping to get to L15 (which there's an incentive to do so, to ensure you get taken in Call To Arms, and can do the most damage to top that artifact roll table) you'll get aggressive player mobs of both Karma types on both levels. Thus if theirs is on aggressive, there's very little you can do or anywhere you can go to avoid it.

    As you play Europa too, you will have perhaps have seen tonight's rather sad spectacle of a group of players trying to keep the cold winds of self realisation away by bragging in General Chat how "griefing trammies is so much more fun than PvP", for at least 3 hours continuously as they rolled about Despise. Let me just point out one further problem then with Despise then; Return To Britannia. Instead of celebrating 15 years of gaming together, expect to see a lot of accounts being re-opened, completely cost free, to relive the good old Dread Lord days, or simply to take vengeance on Trammel, because we all know it's Trammel's fault the hot chicks at the bar aren't impressed with the length of your virtual sword... but if the Devs don't get a grip on Despise pretty soon, they're going to poison their own Anniversary waters with it.

    The gifts however were lovely, and I've only had one semi-duff trade all day (someone forgot to swap a second bag), so I've managed to thoroughly spruce up my home, whilst meeting lots of lovely new people across multiple shards.
     
  15. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    That is the case on a few occasions. But folks are going around killing them on purpose (at least on Atlantic) just to keep others out of the "boss" fight. Had my pet(s) on defensive, pet was blue, and yet they could freely attack it. Makes no sense how or why they left fel ruleset in trammy land honestly. They should not be able to attack a any player controlled animal in tram unless in the same alliance. Seems someone overlooked a KEY piece of coding when they came up with the idea. Needs to be addressed soon, and hope they will.



    I agree it makes no logical sense. However, in the GM's defense, the folks are not breaking any game mechanics, and according to EA/Mythic's TOS and their griefing deal you have to remove yourself from the area and if they follow you... THEN it is considered harassment. Sadly these pets don't last long enough, nor do they listen to you IF you were to walk off.
     
  16. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    I must admit, it was rather fun when my level 12 minion with negative Karma went through the gate on its own accord due to following a mob and the gate was on its direct path. By the time I had got through the gate to collect it, the minion had started on a blue pet of equal level. The guy who owned the blue pet instantly thought I was griefing and started to try and kill my pet while the 2 pets fought it out. He put a poison field down trying to poison my pet, but instead he poisoned his own pet and it died. My pet then went on to attack him and then he died. Man I was giggling about that for a few hours after.
     
  17. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    Not everyone is "grieving" other players and killing opposite or even same aligned monsters and players ( if they grey) on purpose. Its all new and some players may not know yet about the quick change to defense mode. In our event yesterday evening if our own ally members killed others pet by accident.

    Not saying there are not grievers around but don't jump too fast a conclusion.
    These grievers will soon enough disappear because in the long run there is no big purpose and benefit of killing other pets. The real rewards are in the war zone. :)
     
  18. Spoontoes

    Spoontoes Guest

    <snip>
    in the long run there is no big purpose and benefit of killing other pets.
    <snip>

    Unless the griefers kill other's pets so frequently they can't level high enough to go to the boss - leaving the griefer's team of un-killed and safely levelled pets to keep the boss to themelves?

    A bit like reds killing off everyone other than their own people at a Fel champ spawn so they are the only ones in the running for scrolls.

    Or have I got that wrong - certainly seemed to be what was going on last night......
     
  19. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    Waste of time!

    If there would be those kind of people keep killing my pets, i would just switch characters with different karma and switch to the side they are on. None of them can prevent that that i join their side and still go to the Lord. Or take a pet of the same Karma as theirs.

    You just need to be smarter then them. I don't need a high level pet to go to the warzone. :)
     
  20. Spoontoes

    Spoontoes Guest

    <snip>
    I don't need a high level pet to go to the warzone
    <snip>

    You do when a message appears and says (paraphrased) 'The Call to arms has sounded, however your forces are not strong enough to take part' as I got last night. Or is that not what that means? (Perfectly happy to be corrected there)

    I presume I must be doing something wrong then, last night I was happily whacking on red monsters with my blue pet waiting for the call to arms when two blue players came running in - killed my pet, and went on there merry way, a matter of seconds after that the CTA went up and lo and behold I missed out after 3 hours of 'waiting' - the previous CTA, about an hour or so earlier was when I got the 'not strong enough' message (pet was about level 5 at that time - possibly 7.

    I wont be going down there again, I'm not usually a pesimist but I can only be kicked in the nuts so many times before saying 'enough is enough'. The UO in my head is not the UO that exists these days.
     
  21. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    The lowest level of pets you can take to the warzone is level 4-5.

    You get that message about your forces are not strong enough if you decide not/or have not conscripted your pet or is below the minimum level, even if you concripted it.

    If you see the call of arms just conscript your pet or when you think you can handle it from level 5 . I usualy conscript as soon i'm level 5, by the time i get a call i'm up a few levels more.
     
  22. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Sure, a person can be smarter than A person who is griefing in Despise. However these idiots on Atlantic last night were a team and were killing pets on BOTH sides (evil and good). Sorry dude but there are times (especially when new content hits) that folks want to monopolize the drops that are going on, so they can be the ones to get the drops while the prices are crazy high. That is what was happening on Atlantic last night.

    They would kill the pets at level 3. If you were level 1 or 2 they would let you slide.

    I mean hey, IF what you are saying is Despise is fine like it is and the Devs want to leave it that way .... then give ME a chance to defend my pet and attack its attacker, as I would be able to in Fel, and I would have put the little kiddie and his friends on his rump last night. Big bad players running around killing off helpless player controlled critters because they get their arse handed to them in real PvP.... it's laughable that imbeciles like this actually allowed to play. Especially when MULTIPLE GM pages were sent and the GM's said they were doing nothing wrong?!?!? ALL the lazy GM's had to do was hang out for ohhhhh I don't know 5 whole minutes, watch what the morons were doing, see that they were killing multiple peoples pets deliberately in a TRAM Ruleset..... THAT IS griefing, that IS harassment. No two ways about it.

    I believe Mesanna is making a turn when it comes to UO as a whole in the positive direction (yeah, I have a problem with a couple of decisions - ie wiping shard specific em remnants etc).. but overall she seems to be a positive force so far. But, if there is ANYWAY she (or Jeff) can actually ensure the GM's DO THEIR JOBS (especially when the Devs make a mistake), that would be a HUGE step in the right direction.
     
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  23. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    There's another reason why they may be letting low level pets slide, and then killing them before they can enter the Call To Arms, quite apart from stopping people getting drops; it's the really obvious break point for maximum trolling. You've invested some time in levelling a pet, and so they're wasting some of your time; but they're also making it frustrating because you don't get to then use it at all. It's not clever, but it is effective.

    And yes, it is griefing, no two ways about it indeed.
     
  24. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Here is what I think:

    I dont think this should happen, but each side has a different boss. If you are good Karma, you fight Andros, if you are Negative you fight Adrian. Each side has a "Army Power". When the call to arms sound, the side with the greater "Army Power" is the side that is pulled into the final level. This means that either side killing the other sides pets HELPS them as it will decrease the other sides "Army Power".

    Here is further proof to back this up: Negative Karma people arent able to attack other Negative Karma People's pets, and vice versa. Now here is a theory,perhaps the people werent LETTING low level pets slide, but perhaps since many people are turning evil pets to good, that the low level pets hadnt turned BLUE yet. When you first take control of a negative pet (When you are good karma), they stay grey until around level 4. Now perhaps this means, that they LITERALLY couldnt attack it UNTIL it was level 4 aka Blue.


    With how the whole system seems setup, this seems intended. Despise is a battleground between good and evil.

    Whether or not I agree with the system actually being able to work.....I dont know
     
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  25. Faeryl

    Faeryl Babbling Loonie
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    Only problem with that theory is that while my Darkmane was killed while blue, the Echidnite I took control of after was attacked by the same person while still grey.
     
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  26. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    Let one of the greifers attack my level 15 pet... have you all lored one of those? @158 in all skills!
     
  27. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    If this is "working as intended," then **** Despise forever, I guess. On Atlantic, I haven't managed to get a pet past level 3 before someone runs up and murders it.
     
  28. blinkdog

    blinkdog Adventurer

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    This whole Despise thing has been ugly, crude, and poorly conceived from the start. Easily the worst dungeon revamp to date.
     
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  29. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
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    Just wait until you are on the boss with a couple other people and someone decides to cast poison field on the on the boss and all the pets get poisoned... yeah... there goes the one tanking.
     
  30. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    No i don't believe its fine this way.But i can't change things, i'm only "try" to make the best out of things :)



    I just don't believe "all" people are doing this on purpose. :)


    I'm fine when people discuss these things , I just don't like it that people YELL at me :p
     
    #30 Frarc, Sep 2, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  31. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Ugh, sorry man. I been on a few political boards where you don't have the option of bold or italic print to show emphasis.. have to use caps there. Was not even thinking about that or wouldda used bold type. My bad :)
     
  32. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    Its ok. :)

    I can understand people frustration that there pet being killed on purpose. We do need to discuss these things and show the Devs that something needs to be done about it. I can only try as long its the way it is now to find a way out of it. :)
     
  33. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Got ya. Here is to hoping it's an easy fix. The content is fun, and that ring is SWEET. Also it's something a person who has only played a week (just train a mage up, basic lrc suit) can do and stand a chance at "hitting it big" to be able to outfit their chars. An all around plus if they can halt the kiddies from griefing.
     
  34. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    In the GM's diffence, It is not Illegal to grief play. IT was part of the original game play options from day one. I know this as fact as I called the gms that first time it happened to our group just after beta. Message we got was direct from the head dev. "Griefing is part of UO game play"
    I dont agree with it, but it has been in UO for over 15 years(if you count beta time in that).
    I will share what was also said to me then as well. "Get your own group and beat them at their own game" (same gm's advice)
    Griefing is not a great thing, I feel its a cowards way to play UO. But.... if it was intended in the game who am I to change it. I figured it was a way to give those who desire to be truly evil to play their style.
    I dont like it But I do except it as a part of UO.
    Mind you ... If you can get Mesanna to address it..... who knows if the idea has merrit for change. You can only hope so.
     
  35. Lady CaT

    Lady CaT Seasoned Veteran
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    Does anyone read the fiction at all anymore? The feud between good and evil is the whole point of the dungeon! Yes the two brothers (good vs evil) are trying to kill each other! Hint: That is the whole point and challenge of the dungeon! Trying to keep yourself and your creature alive while the opposite alignment attacks your creature.

    Its not griefing!! You just missed the whole point of the story. Despise - Get it yet?
     
    #35 Lady CaT, Sep 3, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2012
  36. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Yes, I read the fiction. However there was nowhere in it that I recall seeing other players would freely be able to attack your pet. True the Brothers are trying to kill each other. And true you have to stay alive and keep your pet alive from the opposite alignment critters roaming the halls. IF by design they were going to allow players to attack other players pets (which personally I highly doubt) then surely they would have understood War 101..... On most occasion the best defense is a strong offense..... ie, given US a chance to kill the ones killing our pets. Yet they did not. Imho the Dev's would not overlook that aspect of a fight.... no to mention they added the content Tram side only, which is under Tram Ruleset. If the situation you are describing were to happen they would have created an alternate Despise in Fel (as Despise has the Baracoon Spawn) and allowed that type of play there, and left the one in Trammieville Trammy.
     
  37. Lady CaT

    Lady CaT Seasoned Veteran
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    Yes while training your pet, you can help it by either healing or attacking the creatures attacking it. And one of the key aspects of gaining levels quickly is you get more levels for killing higher level opposing creatures. You can kill 7 level 1 creatures for a level 6 creature to become level 7 -OR- the level 6 creature can kill an opposing players level 7 creature and become a level 7. How else would you defend your creature against swarm attacks from the opposing side if players weren't able to attack opposing creatures directly? Likewise a player can be killed by another players opposing creatures. I've been killed by high level creatures as well as had mine aggressively run off and attack and kill other players. The whole challenge of the dungeon is trying to figure out a way to overcome the despise for each other. Personally I think the dungeon is a brilliant and challenging design :)
     
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  38. Thimotty

    Thimotty Adventurer
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    Yeah, i'm sure all "griefers" have read the fiction and they are actually feeling terrible that, in order to help their side, they have to kill the other players followers......
    bla bla bla bla
     
  39. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    Good fiction doesn't counter-act bad game design. What the players experience will be what is, not what is written.

    If you'd wanted to design for a Pet v Pet battle, a basically Despise Pokemon, you should have set it up so BOTH armies are untouchable except to the karma AI spawn until a final battle, where the two brothers lead an armies in an arena; I'll explain why shortly. Have the pets nice and strong, so as to be genuinely useful, but attackable in the final battle. And have the two brothers spawn at once and lead the fight, the strongest army will tend to win and kill the other. One could start on Ogre Isle and one at the entrance, if you fancied having them "march" to meet each other for atmosphere. At the point of victory, both armies roll individually for artefacts as currently, taking damage into account to encourage further army training and PvM in that battle, but the winning side also gets a nice extra Heart bonus (from "The last breath" of the brother if both are now face down) to spend outside at the wisp. Argue that the loser shouldn't get anything? Congratulations, you've just ensured that negative karma players are excluded from the dungeon entirely, as they will be a minority on every shard, so why risk losing out? Get a positive karma character and farm the mechanic instead. For both sides to want to play, both of them have to believe at least they can win in some way by doing so.

    This took me literally a minute to think up, and already is a better idea than we currently have because it takes into account something programmers are often incredibly blind too; actual human nature, which is corrupt, selfish and self destructive, or just plain not able to flourish within cold, logical rules as laid down by a computer game and the sensible minds that often design them. You need philosophers not just programmers to design events though.

    I mentioned I'd come back to the question of why player pets shouldn't be able to fight each other later... because right now, do you want proof of just how slow witted the "l33t PK gri3f" types are? Whilst bragging they know how to kill people better than anyone else, I notice none of them have worked out over the entire weekend the simplest way to completely break any Despise variant that allows pets to be fought... cast poison field on the entrance gates themselves (and, if it's possible to move pets manually down the stairs, on the stairs between the two levels to get players passing both ways). Pets passing through will have to pass through poison fields, will flag and stay flagged the instant they try and cross the levels, it can't be avoided, the pets will all be low level and there won't be time to prepare to defend it. The only way to play then will be to force people to stay on the same level and use the karma swapping trick to go to L15. And of course, as the griefers are all such smart bad boys with negative karma, you know what floor everyone else will thus likely be on. 2-3 people can thus destroy the entire dungeon for everyone, 2 on the gates, and one upstairs locating people's positive karma, or now negative karma training on the positive pets there, all of which are valid targets. For added annoyance, you could probably kill all the AI as well so they couldn't even tame one...

    DESPISE IS ATROCIOUSLY DESIGNED. IF IT WEREN'T, THE HALF WITS WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO ABUSE IT SO.

    So instead of Despise I spent my in game time over the weekend happily swapping my store of harpsichords and sands for those who needed specific numbers, whilst idly farming rolls for my own instead... so much more productive and beneficial for the souls of all concerned.
     
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  40. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Remember when High Seas 1st came out? In the Trammel facet, it was initially posssible to sink other players boats.

    Negative: Poor implementation allowed this to happen in the 1st place.
    Positive: This was fixed.

    Now in Despise, players can kill other players pets in the Trammel facet. Whether this is by design (personally, I think this is stupid and poorly implemented), or just a poor implementation like the High Seas boat issue, we will have to wait for a Dev to let us know. If it is not intended, then it can, and should, be fixed.
     
  41. Phangs_of_Phage

    Phangs_of_Phage Journeyman

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    It sucks and is a terrible system, but once you get a pet to leve 8 or so they do become pretty tough. Most players wont be able to kill them 1v1 with you healing it. Just gettin those first few levels is rough
     
  42. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Honestly it should be intended..but not so easily ..when a player attacks your pet he should insta Aggro and get much much stronger and call in his buddies to attack...
     
  43. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    This type of gameplay seems to, in my opinion, fly in the face of and be out of synch with the philosophy of the trammel facet.
     
  44. whiterabbit

    whiterabbit Stratics Legend
    Professional Premium Stratics Veteran Supporter Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter PITMUCK

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    meees tinks it mebe goos. now dat Lady xplians it too mees. uddder stands nows.
    girkle
     
  45. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    Griefing is NOT part of you andif proven to be truley griefing aaction can and will be taken. Whoever you talked to was definatly not a Head Dev, or they would have known it. Playign the game within mechanics is allowed but - If you are deliberately turning every monster gray and just running away laughing, deliberately drawing or targeting your critter and running by gates to draw you critter thru - if you deliberatly target 6 or more critters and drag them into an area where another palyer is working his up, invising laughing and leaving. These are all GRIEFING and actionable. That is what is wrong and should not be allowed and poor implementaion has alloowed it again.

    That is not a part of you and should be dealt with, page a GM, report it and see what happens, players can and will get jailed and marks on accounts.

    Griefing is NOT a part of UO.
     
    MalagAste likes this.
  46. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Weins201
    Sweety I wish my first HD didnt get fried cause I had the bloody e mail and Screenshot of the reply I got. I think your confused.
    Griefing has been over the years used by many in UO, generaly GM's will not do much to help you. But if it crosses into Harrassment.... then they can step in.
    Griefing and harrassment are two different things, and I think you got them mixed up. Griefing is where a person or group kill or take things that others are after sometimes to the other partys upset as its before they can... its general not aimed at any one person. Harrassment is where its deliberate and aimed at one person or group over and over. Its where you are being singled out.
     
  47. Zane_Xander

    Zane_Xander Journeyman
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    Screenshots I submitted to ea. Image1.jpg Image2.jpg Image3.jpg Image4.jpg Image5.jpg
     
  48. Zane_Xander

    Zane_Xander Journeyman
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    Useing game mechanics to grieve or harass others game play if forbiden, period...
     
  49. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Anyone do a "Gangsta's Paradise" parody yet?

    As I run to the steps of the ankh of my flow,
    I look for a pet, but realize I'm gettin' low.
    'Cause I've been runnin' this side for so long that,
    Even my guildies think that my mind is gone.
    But I ain't never crossed a man just to troll his pet,
    Me, be treated like a punk, you know that's some nerf talk.
    You better watch out how you aggro, where your pet goes,
    Or you and your homies will resort to macros.
    I really hate to trip, but I gotta say--
    As far as a system, Despise is lame, foo'
    I'm the kinda C the little noobies wanna be like
    On my horse in the night
    Sayin' in lor to create light

    Been spending most my time trying out the newest UO grind
    Been spending most my time trying out the newest UO grind
    Keep spending most my time trying out the newest UO grind
    Keep spending most my time trying out the newest UO grind

    /bananas
     
    Tjalle likes this.
  50. Green Mouser

    Green Mouser Guest