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Detect Hidden broke on TC?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Goodmann, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    Was trying the new changes- gm detect hide versus a gm hide/gm stealth = 0/30 tries failed to reveal him. This has to be broke?
     
  2. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Do you know if the stealther was moving and was actually there the whole time you were trying it?

    Also sometimes the closer you target to where the stealther is the better chances you have.
     
  3. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    not sure if its broke but i do notice that gm detect has a lower success rate than before. it works against a maxed stealther but hardly as much as before. perhaps its seen as a way to balance hiding.detect... 100 detect skill shouldnt be as effective as it was against 200+ hiding/stealth skill. With the new re hide timer from detect was a bonus for detecters but with that bonus they got thier success chance lowered. from the outside it seems like itll be balanced, of course UO and Balance dont mix well.
     
  4. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    I was using two accounts account a, with hide/stealth (only gm) and account b, with gm detect. Was not moving and could not detect the very spot he was on. Now the passive detect hide was working when i moved but i could just hide again asap when iw as revealed.
     
  5. Ruppy2

    Ruppy2 Journeyman
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    Was it elf or non-elf? Don't elves have a better chance of staying hid?
     
  6. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Shouldn't matter. GM detect, when targeting the same spot on a GM hiding/stealther should work. Not 100%, but it should reveal them.

    Another question. I assume you were, but to be sure, you were in Fel right?
     
  7. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    Great! Tracking is broke, congflag pots broke, and now detect is garbage...soon everyone will be stealthing in pure safety...

    Good Job Devs!
     
  8. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Good thing it was caught and only on test, not on production shards.
     
  9. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    Ya, like they've never brought bugs into live server...:lol:

    Or better yet how long has tracking and conflag pots been broken again?
     
  10. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Don't think it particularly matters yet. Fact is this particular issue is on test right now and was caught. If you feel like convincing yourself that nothing that is caught will be fixed and complaining over every single bug on TC before it even goes live feel free.

    While your at it though let everyone else try to submit it and get their attention to try and get it fixed.
     
  11. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    IMO GM Detect should be as effective as GM Hiding/Stealth.

    Detect does NOT do anything for you in PvP other than "attempt" to counter hiding a stealth. Any char with detect is weaker than the average templates because the loss of 100 skill point.

    Detect/Tracking
    + Only useful in catching players using Hiding/Stealth
    - Chance to reveal is slim at best (at GM/GM vs 120/120 I am failing to detect around 80% of the time and this is targeting at the very tile the stealther is standing on.
    -Long reuse timer (6 sec per detect attempt, 12 second per tracking attempt)
    -Rehide block from detect is next to non-existant. (It blocks rehide for about 1 second)

    Hiding/Stealth
    + Works against all templates, only weaker against detect/tracking.
    + Hiding and Stealth gives death strike bonus damage on top of their defensive nature.
    + Stealth counts towards mana reduction calculation.
    + With 50 Ninjitsu it enables instant combat hide that works 100% of the time in any situation.
    + One of the most effective defensive(no one even knows you are there)/offensive (assassination someone when they are low) skills.


    Currently detective vs stealther encounter goes like this (assuming passive reveal didnt work).
    1. Detective randomly trying to use TRACKING SKILL and has to pick the right category AND then a RNG roll to track their target. And one of the following happens...

    A. If the stealther is in human form and you picked monster/animal you wait 12 seconds and retry.
    B. If stealther is in wolf form and you picked human/monster you wait 12 second and retry.
    C. If stealther is in Kirin/Unicorn form and you picked human/animal you wait for 12 second.

    D. If you happens to pick the right group to track, you now get an RNG roll against the stealther. You win the roll go to step 2, if you lose you go back to A, B, C or D.


    2. Detective is now tracking the target. Detective actively attempt to reveal the stealther then one of the following happens...

    A. Detect attempt, fail (80% chance) -> wait 6 seconds repeat A, success (20% chance) -> stealther is revealed. go to B.

    B. Stealther rehide after 1 second blockage, detective has 5 second left on his detect cooldown.

    So it's too hard to detect and reveal the stealthers imo.

    Tracking/Detect makes you universally weaker than EVERYONE including the stealthers,

    Hiding/Stealth provides benefits against EVERYONE but the detectives.

    The only thing detectives is good for is to track the stealther and setup a gank squad.

    And the only way you can reveal a stealther for more than 1 second is to PASSIVE REVEAL (while holding your detect cursor), when stealther rehide you target reveal (20% of the time this will work) and now the stealther is unable to rehide for 5 seconds...............

    okay.........

    discuss.
     
  12. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    I wonder if this will fail in a house now, hate to see that broken checking your house should auto reveal still i hope.
     
  13. Bleak

    Bleak UO Software Engineer
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    Were both players innocent? Currently on TC you can only actively detect hidden players that you can freely attack. I would retry your tests with at least one player that is a criminal or murder.
     
  14. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Bleak, thank for your reply. If you took time and read my long posts, all my tests are done in Fel against 2 blue none-guilded character.
    Do you think that detective should be made this weak and at cost of 200 skill points that can only work on 1 type of character they STILL has a pathetic detect chance... and I am not mentioning the re-hide block timer being extremely short.

    Maybe work tracking detect into some kind of bonus? Kinda like hiding and stealth make your death strike stronger?
    You can use this chance to revive some dead special moves like "Talon Strike" and "Dual Wield"... I dont know what new effects you can give them... just keep em interesting and useful and scales their effec/dmg with tracking OR detect try not both, this is to give people the flexibility in their template. And if you scale the specials with both, you have to make it worthwhile.

    Some quick ideas I got:

    Talon Strike gives -40hp regeneration for 5 seconds (at GM Detect)... this only gives less than 20dmg over 5 seconds (because all chars have some hp regen) it doesnt tick, so it doesnt disrupt and it doesnt KILL (-hp regen can take you down to 0 hp but will never kill you, and during the 5 second the stealther is unable to hide and smokebomb. And if you have GM tracking, during the 5 second, if victim is inflicted with a death strike, death strike will deal extra X damage. Talon Strike can only be delivered by a fast low damage 2 handed weapon... so IMO this is not nearly as overpowering especially it deals such a low a mount of dmg.

    There are so many "dead/useless specials", It's a shame that with all the new specials introduced with the Japanese weapons when SE hits, only nerve strike and bokuto (ironically a ken-do PRACTICE weapon!!!) and is wildly used. There are plenty of existing resources already ingame that's never been utilized/balanced. Fix em before you sink more resources into more new stuff.
     
  15. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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    I tested it on blue chars in fell, off to test with a criminal. This does worry me that you can't actively detect (reveal) unflagged blues in fel?
     
  16. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Why does the target need to be grey or red in order to detect them? Sometimes you want to detect on a blue and kill them. This change makes no sense.
     
  17. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    First trammel now this...see where UO is heading?
     
  18. Bleak

    Bleak UO Software Engineer
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    To clarify freely attackable meaning detector or target is criminal, murder, in a waring guild, or faction player. Detecting hidden is treated as a harmful act towards the target thus if innocent players would like to detect other innocent players then they would be considered criminals.
     
  19. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Is this a new "feature" that will be implemented to live shards?

    As it is, detect hidden in tram rule-set facets only works on people within your own guild or a guild you are warring. Or, of course, revealing anyone hidden in your own house.

    In fel it works on anyone regardless.

    From what I am picking up here, you are suggesting that detect hidden will only work on people who are criminal or someone you are warring, even in fel. Essentially being the same rules as tram. Am I reading this correctly? Or is there some miss-communication here?
     
  20. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

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    You got me with the big words...explain it to me like i'm a small child please...can a red detect a blue?
     
  21. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    In Fel, this will lend towards a guild or faction not revealing their own people when doing a detect hide..which is a good thing.

    It also means that they will not reveal the blue stealther out there waiting on a kill shot...which is a VERY BAD thing.

    How about this:

    When a detect is used, all viable targets get the following; Check for guild / faction / ally. If yes, ignore detect. All other targets that fail those 3 checks get the roll for detection, which should be increased a bit..not a lot but a bit..say 5%-10% more than currently on the books. Once detected, block from re-hide for 6-8 seconds.

    Bleak...DO NOT allow this pub to hit the shards and have Tracking broken again, we already went through that once. Let's not repeat that mistake again...please.
     
  22. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Without really playing felucca I stil think that taking out all the 'friendly fire' things over the years does not really make a 'better' game.

    Nice for a game designer and their 'play rules', but taking away finesse and skill of players.
     
  23. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    I have a character with detect hidden and you just basically made his entire reason for existing void. By this same logic, dispelling other player's summons should also not be possible. I don't understand why such a ridiculous change is being made.
     
  24. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    The detecton TC should work as follows.

    (Fel Side)
    A Blue can reveal criminals, reds or oranges.
    A Criminal or Red can reveal anyone.


    Detecting is a passively aggressive act.

    But of course this is still in testing and may not make it to production.
     
  25. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Thanks. But would this mean if a red uses this in town it it can lead to being guard wacked?

    Personally don't like the proposed changes. Liked the way it has been for detect in fel.
     
  26. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    Logrus... this is a very bad idea.What ever someone may be thinking, that led to this train of thought...they are WRONG and need to be re-directed to something else.

    If you want to make ANY changes to detect..it needs to be the following (and nothing else):

    When a detect is used, all viable targets get the following; Check for guild / faction / ally. If yes, ignore detect. All other targets that fail those 3 checks get the roll for detection, which should be increased a bit..not a lot but a bit (especially for those with both GM Detect and Tracking)..say 5%-10% more than currently on the books. Once detected, block from re-hide for 6-8 seconds.
     
  27. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Well from a design standpoint you can argue that detect hidden is an aggressive act.

    I think it is overreacting, especially in Felucca, but then ...
     
  28. Damien Softstep

    Damien Softstep Visitor

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    Can you fix Tracking, breather?