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Dev Why can't it be simple like this???

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Hiroko, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. Hiroko

    Hiroko Visitor

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    I just feel the upcoming publish is so confusing and complex. Where is the Uo that I use to love???
    Why do you need to change thing when everyone is use to it?
    Leafblade did we request for a change?
    Instead of improving on weapon that people does not use, you nerf weapon that people use??
    Why do you have all this stamina add on system that will effect alot of thing. It will effect how we hunt etc??
    Do you really want all this???

    Armor Revamp (The Idea of a Armor revamp is so people can craft other type of armor instead of leather.)
    Why not make Platemail 600 imbuing Cap to level up with leather which have a free mage armor on it.
    while you also can make platemail have 355 durablity cap. So player can choose what design they want.
    You might ask what about bone and stud armor? They can also have 600 imbuing cap with resist bones cap increase of 1% per part. So wearing 5 bone armor can give you a resist cap of 75%.
    Then you will ask me everyone would maybe switch to plate and bone armor.
    what about leather armor??? Maybe leather armor can have a the stamina lost system which you wish to add in.
    Maybe Leather armor lost stamina abit more then other.

    Just simple stuff like this and try not make it too complex.
    I just want to enjoy UO, keeping adapting and changing suit is not fun.(are you trying to get us to grind like last time)

    Do you really spend a hour or two everyday in Ultima online, Play abit of it to really know what we feel??
    Please for godsake, Do not change when it is not needed.. We all have a LIFE !!!
    I really love Uo but this upcoming publish is too much...:sad3:
     
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  2. WootSauce

    WootSauce Lore Keeper
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    As far as I can tell based on feedback, no one wanted changes to the extent that they have been taken. Not PVMers, not PVPers, no one. I also feel that the general inquiries and calls for changes to certain armor types or weapon specials could have been achieved without the slew of nonsense that seems to be the bulk of the test publish. If I seriously have to re learn how to play the same content and spend gold and time re outfitting for everything that I have come to enjoy doing in game, that's likely a deal breaker for me.
     
  3. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Pre-AOS, you had a balance between Meddable, AR, Dex, and Weight. Heavier armors traded Meddable, Dex, and weight for significant AR value. Bone Armor gave the AR without the other penalties but at the cost of being non-repairable and breaking easily (which is why it was favored for “junk wear” runs pre-Tram).

    AOS trashed ALL of this since Mage Armor requires the cost of a Mod slot, leather armor is Meddable inherently and the lightest weight but can obtain the same 70 cap for any resist the same as plate. The ONLY negative metal armors lost was the Dex penalty and materials like Bone and Scale was left to rot (well Bone required for Tailoring BODs but that was about it).

    I think I would have rather seen them rescaling armor back to what it used to be, at least in terms of Physical Resist. Other games have obviously learned this… whether it’s called AR, AC, Armor, Protection, whatever, the physical protection of armor at least in terms of RPGs scales based on material first, then mods and the physical part of the protection tends to be more standard with the elemental resists being the additional portion of the process. As it is proposed, the mid ranged armors are still going to be lost in the shuffle, it’s either all leather for inherent Meditation and maxxing out carry capacity or all plate. There’s still no return to the days of the balanced equipment sets such as light and heavy archer sets and so forth.

    Weapons should have ALWAYS been under the ideal of Damage Range * Swing Speed = DPS where all melee/ranged weapons AT BASE rated the same DPS (obviously stacking mods would change this). This would make any held weapon choice mainly cosmetic at least until character and suit builds came into play. Skimming the list makes it difficult to conclude that that is what they have done since they don’t rate weapons by DPS (thanks Pinco’s item description revamp for that). As for special moves... dunno about those, I've stuck with one melee weapon for quite a while and my fisherman/archer tends to not need them.

    I don;t have any problem with rebuilding armor sets and so on, but I'm not certain these are the changes that people have been asking for in the first place in terms of combat rebalance.
     
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  4. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    If anyone is actually surprised that the devs have gone far beyond what was needed to balance weapons and armor, all I can say is:

    Congatulations for coming out of your coma.

    This has been the norm for the devs for some time.
     
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  5. WootSauce

    WootSauce Lore Keeper
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    I dunno. I have seen changes that had a strong support from one side or the other, and obviously strong resistance. I don't recall seeing one with strong resistance from BOTH sides. Though knowing that former EM Dudley is now on the Dev team, this shouldn't surprise me one bit, I suppose.
     
  6. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    The rotten tomatoes have been hurled. Time to see if "listening to feedback" is just talk or not.
     
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  7. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    Well they said nothing is written in stone so I guess that they have a pile of feedback to go through, we shall see though. What is a clear notion that this is a step in the wrong direction is even the fanboys think this is a bad idea.
     
  8. Warsong of LS

    Warsong of LS Seasoned Veteran
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    Kind of like the AoS changes where not written in stone? and Feedback would be taken? What happened? Feedback yes, listened too? No. years of trying to get things worked out and they are going to do it again????
     
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  9. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    Hey I'm not saying that they WILL listen but I said they might and should. Nothing would surprise me less than if we all log in next week and pub 81 is a forced patch.
     
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  10. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Really I think that the most common sense first stage to armor revamps would have been to even out the freaking resists that they give. It wouldn't rock the boat, and it wouldn't be confusing to anyone and... ITS BEEN NEEDED FOR YEARS. Why they chose what they chose as step one is anyone's guess.
     
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  11. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    Does anyone remember when Draconi had that crazy "diminishing returns" idea for item stats where you'd have 40 fire resist or whatever, put on a hat with 10 fire resist, and instead of 50 you'd end up with 47 or something? I forget whether it ever made it to test, but everyone FREAKED OUT and the idea was yanked. Hopefully these guys are as cool as Draconi.
     
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  12. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    I don't fondly recall that but I recall it.
     
  13. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    That's not so crazy actually.

    Percentual resistances are a pretty bad system that should never have been introduced, in my opinion.
     
  14. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    It was awful. This game is enough of a spreadsheet as it is. You change it so 10 + 10 = 19 and peoples heads would explode.
     
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  15. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    It all depends on how you do it.

    Guild Wars is somewhat comparable to what UO had before AOS messed everything up.

    Damage = Damage * 0.5 ^ ( (ArmorRating - 60) / 40 )
    With the damage being compared to the AR value of a random piece of armor at a location (helmet, torso, leggings, gloves, boots - almost like UO before AOS had).

    Now this formula is all scary? Not at all! Cause players just have to remember one simple rule: Every 40 points of Armor cuts damage taken in half (or doubles it if you have less armor). They don't have to understand the maths, they just need to remember the rule of thumb.

    Lets compare this to UO with its percentual resistances.

    If I have 0 physical resist and put a piece of 5 physical resist on, it reduces my damage taken by 5%.
    If I already have 50 physical resist, and I put a piece of 5 physical resist on, it reduces my damage taken by 10%.
    If I have 70 energy resist and am an elf, and put an extra piece of 5 energy resist on, it reduces my damage taken by 16.7%

    When you think about it, which one of the two systems should really make your head explode?
     
  16. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Draconi was the best of the best. He would listen to what the players whanted not like this lot who see whats been asked for then add their own twist to things
     
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  17. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    This was a cool post and all, but the devs just ran up and went "Hey should we ruin UO? Give us feedback, derpy doo!" the other day and everyone is currently losing their **** all over the place. I don't have the energy in me to refight the game design battles of yesteryear. :p
     
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  18. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Yes true, let's put the devs back in their cage first and don't let them come out until they produce something reasonable.
     
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  19. Gameboy

    Gameboy Sage
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    I'm all for simple, somethings are a bit complex.
     
  20. Maximus of Lck

    Maximus of Lck Adventurer
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    Leather doesn't really have a free mage armor on it, it's just that you are able to meditate in non-metal armors.

    To me, this was a feature put in by the original development team to prevent mages from wearing heavy plate, which offered more protection. With great offense comes a weakened defense.
     
  21. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    If the changes are to make PVM harder so they don't have to make greater uber type critters. There will need to be a new loot nerf to reflect how hard the fight was. Been all about getting rid of this solo bosses BS. With the changes what will be now soloed have pure crap for loot. Coming future will see the return of the tamer as the PVM gods again. And for everyone else. If you don't have a friend that is a tamer, better get one. The dexer for PVM has only been a template with a group of half cocked skills. Sure a 6x120 paladin with a dragon slayer lance (classic) can kill a GD. After a few close calls and a nap at half life the GD dies. Even with the current loot system it pretty much is "WOOT" barbed leather and the scale is dead weight.

    As far as the changes, just new bunch of puzzles to solve. Expect change and adapt. What itches the back my brain is no word on the golden oldies getting some love. Doom, BOD rewards and a new ToT III long overdue. And turn the arty Imbue back on.

    They want to improve armor/weapons? Another improvement would be treating them all like water balloons. The more you stuff in them the better chance of them breaking. Like an over inflated tire they wear out faster. Also 1 in 10 already in game and 10% chance of newly spawned Artifacts have new title "True Artifact". True Arty would be break resistant and have a hidden 2 self repair as long as they are not blessed or imbued. Add in a "True Artisan" tag that works like a true arty effect as a BOD reward deed. Deed can tag a exc. crafted item and then suffer the same if blessed or imbued.
     
    #21 Warpig Inc, Feb 3, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  22. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    And what is the current issue. Plate has no hidden benifit over leather besides a FEW points of resist. Hidden being has no imbuing weight makes mage armor a huge difference on leather. And lets not forget the carry weight difference. Leather and non cloth armor clothing as a full suit should never even get close to cap physical resist at least. Light armor should be just something to hang mods on. And if you want it as protective as plate on resist then burn some mods.
     
  23. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I have a great fear that we players will opposition to these changes as a platform for our own less-than-workable or otherwise questionable proposals, thus causing the team to miss the seeming consensus that the changes as currently proposed go way too far in attempting to achieve an objective that, while not exactly simple, doesn't require major changes in how things work either.

    -Galen's player
     
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  24. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    And as soon as you put the mage tage on plate armor UO forgets that it was plate and thinks it is leather.
     
  25. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    So mage armor plate has the stam effect of leather on TC now?
     
  26. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    YES Total NEFR to any fighter class that has medable armor or the RNG totally hates me. 2 Mud Pies almost handed me my arse before I ran screaming like a little bwitch.
     
  27. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Like I said earlier. If this change makes PVM harder, then there will need to be a total loot relook. The classic risk vs. reward compounded by the time invested. As far as PVP. The new changes will make fights more epic and not lean to the glass sword style fight. Shouldn't take longer to type "I win you newb - go back to ATL" then the time it took to fight. There will always be legend runners unless their animal form gets fizzled. LOL
     
  28. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Seems I remember it better than you do. The diminishing returns idea was not Draconi's. If I remember right Mr Tact proposed that change.
     
  29. Plant Elemental

    Plant Elemental Journeyman
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    Anybody remember years ago when they had the crazy idea to introduce Proficiencies? Ticks + Magery% x Clicks x 0.5 +(this - that) = Faster Cating....or something like that. Worst idea ever! Can't remember who was in charge of that. I'm thinking Sunsword.
     
  30. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    The Diminishing Returns/Proficiencies systems were tests by Mr Tact, not Draconi. DR actually made it onto test center for a short time and really the biggest problem it had at the time was that the 2d and 3d clients did not have the same Character Sheet info that the EC does showing the totals of every mod. After the initial furor, Mr Tact brought out the "Proficiencies" idea which was nothing but arbitrary capping of mods which made things even MORE screwed up. Should be interesting to note that portions of DR did end up in the game for some mods/skills.