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Devs A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

Discussion in 'UHall' started by puni666, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Add wrestling to the mana cost special move mana reduction cost list.

    Remove stealthing from the mana cost special move mana reduction list.

    Make Nerve Strike a bushido spell. (bokuto only? really? and you have to have bushido anyways just to make it work? lame... just make it a spell and then you fix the problem of gargoyles not being able to do this as well.)

    Make Nervestrike, Ki Strike, Lightning Strike, Momentum Strike a double mana cost when spammed like weapon primary/secondary actions.

    Add a timer much like the player flag of 2 minutes to the pet auto stabling "Feature".

    Make spellweaving spells strength based on the skill level of the caster.

    Remove the necessity for spellweaving circles.

    Make spellplague effects only work for the character that originally cast the spell plague. (much like bloodoath)

    Trapped boxes need a usage amount and damage amount based on the level of the creator. Lower level creator gets you less damage but less charges on the box. Higher level creator gets you higher damage but more charges on the box. (This is because the only reason they're in the game now is to exploit one of the few uses resisting spells has left.)

    Probably going to add more later.. I just can't think of anything else atm.

    Give me your input!
     
  2. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    1.why would it matter, wrestling stands alone.

    2. Why remove stealthing, now a ninja has to have 2 weapon skills to be viable?

    3.nerve strike has always been bokuto only, same with many other specials ie: feint, double strike yumi, drawing a blank, but I know there are others

    4. They are spells, why would you make a LS go up to triple mana? If it went off with a critical everytime I could see it. It doesnt though, its like 20% with 120 bush.

    5. why do people ***** about logging pets? The tamer is already dead. Whats the point of killing the pet too? If you play factions, which most PvPers are now, once you kill the tamer, he cant control it anyway, so he is worthless for 20 minutes.

    6. No problem with this one, SW spells in PvP are for the effects, not the damage so w/e

    7. Dumb idea, everyone would be using wind nonstop. Its not that hard to find 4 other humans to stand on brit circle with you, assuming you have a soulstone.

    8. Spell plague is not that damn powerful anymore. Either apple it or w/e. If you have 3-4 people on you, Spell plague is the least of your concerns.

    9. Trapped boxes are already more powerful with higher tinkering. You carry around a dart box with GM tinkering your doing more than un-paraing yourself, your looking for a healer. Personally I would like to see them do away with trapped boxes. I put resist on every toon. Guess thats why.

    Your list is a joke........ sorry.
     
  3. Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    I actually like most of your list, trap boxes are just lame period, make them a one charge item or get rid of them period.
     
  4. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    1. Because it's a combat oriented skill.
    2. Because it's not a combat oriented skill.. it's a tactic.
    3. Feint's on more then one weapon. Make that a spell too for all I care in both ninja/bushido spell books.
    4.Ment to say double mana cost.
    5.Because they're avoiding the necessity for vet on there character by abusing a game function.
    6/7. Go together so you're contradicting yourself.
    8.Apples don't cure stacked spellplagues, and a continuall cycle of people casting 30 damage magic arrow/eagle strikes and spellplague stacking seems a bit obtuse damage wise. Narrowing it to the individual target that cast it gaining the additional damage seems fair enough.
    9. I'm talking about putting a limited usage on boxes. I know the damage they do quality wise. Lower level boxes get 1-10 uses and higher level ones get 10-20 kind of thing get it? (numbers aren't set in stone.. it's just an example...)
     
  5. jtw1984

    jtw1984 Seasoned Veteran
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    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    Ummm.... trapped boxes get rid of one of the only things resisting spells helps against?

    What about evil omen/paralyze? Even at 120 resist you are screwed.

    Trapped boxes are necessary and should not be limited. Trust me, if they were limited you would just have everyone carrying around 5 of them.

    Why do that?
     
  6. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    Most serious PvPers carry at least 20 trapped pouches pre-AoS. 5 is nothing.

    What do you say if evil omen doesnt affect resist and 120 resist will always resist paralyze? you still wouldnt spent the skill points in resist probably.

    Ideas are good, some ideas can be refined.
     
  7. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    Most of the stuff is "Eh"

    However Nerve Strike functioning as it does with Only Bushido as a Requirement (No Tactics) Becomes Vastly overpowered.

    Having Nerve as a spell means you dont need Tactics OR Weapon Skill.. Bringing along temps like..

    120 Mage
    120 Eval
    120 Med
    120 Resist
    120 Bush
    100 Inscribe

    This template would have.. 120 Bush Confidence, 20% Crit Lightning Strikes, Inscribe Damage, NerveStrike, and Everything Mage offers.. While still having resist.. Which is.. Overpowered. (Im saying this and I generally only play casters)

    Bushido already offers enough as a Skill.. a Free Nerve strike would put it over the top easily.


    :thumbup1:
     
  8. Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    hate to be disarmed on that template.
     
  9. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    Why would it matter if your disarmed on that temp or any other? Once your weapon is out of your hand you have no dci. Unless of couse your a wrestler......
     
  10. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    1. Wrestling is a stand alone skill. People don't use wrestling to kill people.
    2. No NS is a weapon special that you just happen to need bushido for.
    3. Not going to argue, you put feint in a spellbook people would spam it all day, not sure if you have ever used it, but it helps.
    4. Doesn't matter, its fine the way it is. Its a 20% chance and you want to double it?
    5. How are they abusing it? You do realize that NPC's will rez pets right? Unless you PvM with a pet you dont need vet. Even then, you can get by without it.
     
  11. Death Adder

    Death Adder Guest

    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    I actually have Wrestling on my archer, in large part as a defense against (the ubiquitous) Disarm, but it's quite useful for killing people as it has Disarm itself. I hate to do it because I've thought Disarm has been overpowered for years (there should be a timer to make it harder on consecutive ones ala Concussion) and think it a dishonorable tactic because of its overpowered nature, so I never used it. But after coming back from a couple year break I discovered that there are now tons of Fencer/Archers and Swordsman/Archers just Disarming non-stop (and chaining AI/Moving Shot immediately after). So now all my chars start with Resist, Ninjitsu (the only consistent Dismount defense, another highly overpowered move) and Wrestling. Doesn't leave much room for variety but so it goes in a game where 100+ skill points are required to defend against a single overpowered attack.

    IOW, I would love for Wrestling to be added to the special move reduction table.
     
  12. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    6,7. They dont go together wiz kid. The circle affects the range of the spell, not the effect.
    8. Like I said, 4-5 people on you, spell plague is the least of your issues. Also, if you running from mages, your gonna get away. Just remember, they have to pause to cast.
    9. They are not going to put durability on boxes..... geez
     
  13. Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    wrestling would make a welcomed add to special move reduction, as rare as it would be on combat templates. some templates would benefit well, like mentioned above. do wrestling specials even take into effect the special move reduction? never noticed if they did or not.

    i think i've managed twice to kill someone with wrestling, both in mage duels, and both were rather lucky hits after a crippling combo. it was before aos, so i don't know if wrestling had any different damage or not.
    i do remember very early on, i tried making an unarmed monk character, thinking wrestling might kick some serious butt at the high skill levels on a warrior. boy was i wrong. at least the wrestling was still useful when i did finish up the template adding magery and a weapon skill.

    thinking about bushido moves, those moves probably would work as bushido abilities, but would be heavily burdened like evasion is, with high skill requirements for decent use, and probably some obtrusive timer, after all the balancing. so it could work, though not that easy to implement.

    spellweaving needs the circle requirement. otherwise you can bet it'll be nerfed with requiring another skill as a replacement in lieu (like focus or camping).

    trapped boxes should be removed, and replaced with a potion that can free you instead (does 5 damage and breaks para). that way there's a commodity that's consumed, and with the shatter potions introduced, has some risk too.
     
  14. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    You ned template help. A disarm only lasts what, 8 seconds? Same with a dismount. If you cant ride the bull and survive for 8 seconds without wrestling or a mount you need help. Another thing is, don't use ethys, dismount = death.


    Here is a PvP issue. Add the purge out of animal form back. You can take every other ward away with purge magic, why cant we purge out of llama?
     
  15. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    Only thing that sucked about that is that they could instantly recast animal form. It didn't act like a dismount.
     
  16. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    I'd like to see a skill like chiv added to that lower mana list. It is a secondary ability much like bushido, and the lmc changes in essence made many straight templates unviable, and more gimp/tank templates the norm.
     
  17. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    purge is a pretty quick spell tho, and a dexer animal forming without fc has a slight pause, enough to chain purge someone.
     
  18. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    True, what are you going to do though chain that recasting battle till he's out of mana lol?
     
  19. Death Adder

    Death Adder Guest

    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    It lasts 5 seconds, during which you have no defense. In a 1v1 it's not a huge issue (though still pretty debilitating as getting plinked with 3 auto-hit AI's is definitely a problem) but in a gank or group battle it's insta-death. It also puts a huge crimp in one's offense. Then there is the issue of just getting Disarmed again immediately after bringing your weapon back up. I tend to fight solo so it's a big big problem for me, hence adding Wrestle to my template (which I'm very happy with).
    Dismount lasts forever because they kill your mount (which is why I think it should simply force walking and not actually separate you from your mount). If you're riding a Hellsteed or a Hiryu it's not so easy to kill it, but it still happens (and I don't currently have Necro or Bushido or Taming on my template).
    Give me a break, no one can survive chained AI's that always hit (unless you're a caster that can heal between shots, which I'm not).
    Actually, it's best to start out with an ethe because it frees up a control slot once it goes into your pack, allowing one extra summoning-ball mount (really the only other "defense" against Dismount because, again, the mount is immediately killed afterwards). An ethe is also fairly effective against Dismount when combined with old-school invis items (of which I still have many). But all of those "solutions" can be foiled and are very inconsistent. Only Ninjitsu offers a consistent defense against it.

    Sure, you can survive Disarm/Dismount if you're zerging with guildmates. I solo the gank so it's not so easy for me.
     
  20. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    Good point!
     
  21. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    This might be true after they fix everyone's speed, but a lot will be different after everyone moves at the same pace.
     
  22. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    Oh one more thing I'd add is make gift of life resurrect players OR let them self res if they're not criminal.
     
  23. SchezwanBeefy

    SchezwanBeefy Lore Master
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    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    Can we please see gargoyle speed reduced? As it stands, it practically seems like they're speed hacking in a fight. People on speed hacks can't even keep up with them. This is way too over powered.
     
  24. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    I don't run any faster on my garg than I do on my human....... no idea what your saying there..

    and if you play alone, learn the duck and weaver. Fencers cant hit whats not in range.
     
  25. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    Same. Honestly I think the graphics for flying are more of a hindrance than anything. It always seems like I'm a tile off while flying. I think garg's should have there own type of mounts if you choose to use one.
     
  26. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    If you use a mount then it takes away my favorite pastime. I love fielding dexxers in with a RC and sitting back and watching the show.
     
  27. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I like every idea except bushido-only "spell" nerve strike and the SW damage boost/ removal of circle necessity, and would have to look closer at the double-mana idea for the specials you listed. Would rather see triple mana for insane things like moving shot, haha.

    Nerve and SW are fine the way they are, imo. Max circle SW is very powerful when used right so I like that there is an artificial limit based on amount of friends on (which is usually broken by mult-account users, hehe). The game needs more systems that rely on amount of players imo ... anything to artificially encourage group play :).
     
  28. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    That's true, but it's just so simple to do it seems relatively pointless now that they put a level 6 circle right in the middle of the most populated place in the game. It was good when it was in the end of the dungeon and a pain in the ass to get to. It was actually rewarding for the effort.
     
  29. Death Adder

    Death Adder Guest

    There is a level 6 circle in Luna?
     
  30. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I think most shards have a lvl 6 @ WBB -- well, I know Ches does at least :)
     
  31. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
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    Apples need a 2min or greater reuse timer on them. They should be something that is saved for when the user has no choice but to use one or die, not to be spammed every time you are cursed.

    Chiv needs to be completely rebalanced to require more skill and be less reliant on karma (in other words make the skill requirement for chiv spells higher).

    Disarm - remove it as an ability from all weps and just leave it on wrestling.

    Wrestling - make special artie 'gloves' (knuckle dusters) that can increase the damage output of wrest a small amount and maybe even change the special moves.

    Dismount - remove from all ranged weps and bolas so you can only dismount in hand-to-hand combat (melee) whilst dismounted or by using a lance while mounted.

    Moving shot - needs a 15-20sec reuse timer. This move should be used a a special one-off to finish someone off as they run, not to spam over and over as you run from your opponent.
     
  32. Death Adder

    Death Adder Guest

    Dismount -- IMO it should not separate you from your mount. It's unbalanced that the mount can be killed making the move last forever. It used to be possible to fight ganks by jousting but not since Dismount weapons came about (bola's were balanced and survivable when first introduced because you had to farm a bunch of orcs for them and they disappeared when used).

    Disarm -- just like Concussion, there should be less effect on consecutive Disarms if hit with it multiple times within a particular time frame. It should have a chance to fail in such cases, or something along those lines.

    Trapped boxes -- it's just a messed up mechanic, with the all the turning and stuff involved. Just bring back magic pouches by lowering the damage to 1 like it used to be. The one-off nature of them kept them balanced but effective.

    Old school invis and teleport jewelry -- bring them back. Heck, spell reflection stuff would rock too. I still have all of those and they work great.

    Exploding Tar Potions -- fix them. Sometimes they work like GE pots, sometimes they work like a regular ranged attack but is always resisted.
     
  33. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    You must not play a chiv guy much. Mine hasnt been karma based in a very long time. The only karma based spell is remove curse.

    Its not that hard to dodge a bola, and an archer is on foot as long as you are. There are ways to fight every situation in this game, with pretty much every template in the game. You just need to think about things.
     
  34. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Riiight... if it were anything like that I'd say they should make you waste 120 skill points in some new skill to even let you be able to ride a mount then. If you don't want your mount to die become a tamer and train it.
     
  35. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    What if they changed Moving Shot to "Fatal Shot," then made it operate in a similar way to Honorable Execution? It could retain the moving ability, but there would be a temporary paralysis (can't be broken/resisted) or maybe a forced walk ("to regain balance after the awkward shot") if the shot didn't kill the target. A successful death blow would give a brief SSI boost ;P. Gankers would still have the option to get paralyzed or slowed and be one-and-done on the chase, but mains couldn't use it exclusively in 1v1s that way.
     
  36. Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)


    Plus no double mana for Nerve Strikes,

    Man uo is kinda fun -mystics and archers,
     
  37. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Make it so you need vet to res any pet/mount. Faction horses included. There is no reason why a faction player should be able to res his pet with a bandage faster than a tamer who has 120 vet.
     
  38. RawHeadRex

    RawHeadRex Slightly Crazed
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    the arties alone are enough of an incentive to join.
     
  39. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    aye
    i had 10 at a time usually
     
  40. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    I have to say personally i would love this change, so i could play my overpowered Bush Mage (with Necro / SS instead of inscribe / resist)

    I pretty much agree that these proposed changes really shouldnt be made. I wouldnt argue with bushido only special be spells... as my samurais would dominate pvp like when they were first introduced as a class. Nerve striking with an ornate instead of a low damage bokuto would own. Rotating feints to always take only 50% damage would own. And yes being able to use Bushido specials without tactics would basically make the skill like it was before the tactics req patch.

    I do see the point about gargoyals not being able to have a weapon with nerve strike, but i really have no love for gargoyals having entirely equal gear choices, as their armor has such powerful base resists after the extra slots were added but the resists on all slots was never lowered.

    I also see the point about tamers. I try not to hate on tamers, but knowing their pet will die and lose trained skill would make tamers think a bit more before getting into a fight. As a side note, i was wondering if a faction players pet has stat loss when the player dies (i never played a faction tamer so dont know)

    Always good to see ideas on how to improve pvp, and easier to point out problems with ideas than thinking of perfect ones. So i give points for effort :)
     
  41. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I think nerve strike should take double mana on repeat use.

    Armor ignore does. Nerve strike should.

    As for trap boxes leave them alone, if you want to limit their uses fine... but don't take them out.

    Don't mess with dismount... It's an archers only defense. Archers can't disarm like everyone else can so leave us our defense.

    And boo hoo get your mount killed... that's why I don't use them. I carry an ethy. They can't kill that.
     
  42. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Nerve strike does already take double mana. I was talking about lightning strike/momentum strike/ ki strike/ death strike/ focus strike.

    And what about still making nerve strike a spell but add effects to it based on your skills. Anatomy gives you a better chance to hit the para (since anatomy is your knowledge of the body that kind of make sense.) And tactic would give you the bonus damage. Greater the skill in both means the greater chance for para/high damage, and it would cost double mana for spamming it like any other special move, and would be pretty much useless to use w/o the corresponding skills.
     
  43. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Whatever you want to change double mana or whatever make sure it only takes effect when fighting another player as this post says PVP oriented so it cannot have no effect in anything else. Not sure how that will be done so the people who want changes need to figure that out.
     
  44. Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    i vote get rid of them period.
     
  45. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    In all honesty it would effect a sampire most. But really if you look at it they can solo just about any boss. Is that not over powered pvm wise?

    Oh that reminds me make Barracoon a rat ARCHER please! Seriously he just sits there and does NOTHING when anything ranged attacks him... wtf is that?.. some challenging spawn boss that is...
     
  46. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Re: [Devs]A few things that need changing. (PVP Oriented)

    Boxes will be necessary until they remove evil omen's 50% reduction from your resisting spells skill when under its effect. After that then it'll be a better idea to just flat out remove them.
     
  47. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    And because most PVM use sampires and not many PVP use them it makes no logic reasoning why a PVP change should effect PVM more than PVP. So regardless on any changes that anybody wants do not let PVP changes effect PVM in no way and do not let PVM changes effect PVP in no way. That what really needs to be looked into before changing or wanting to change anything.
     
  48. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    That is quite ridiculous. Double mana cost for successive lightning strikes, huh? That's like saying to a mage "everytime you cast a spell in succession with another it will cost you x2 the amount of mana"

    Makes absolutely no sense. Nerfing lightning strike to that extreme would practically negate any melee template on the field. Be it pvp or pvm.. Forcing everyone to take up some sort of spell castor.

    Also, your comment about the Barracoon. Go ahead and make him an archer. Sampires will simply stay in Vamp form and leech back life with every hit... One really easy peerless out of them all doesn't require a nerf.
     
  49. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    6 mana instead of 3 mana isn't a UO changing melee nerfing ordeal.
     
  50. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Understandable if one is running max LMC. I for one do not run LMC on my sampire suits as his armor is already cramped for other bonuses.

    From my perspective, going from 5 mana to 10 mana is a large jump when your mana pool consists between 40-60.


    My problem falls more in line with pvm, whereas I can careless about the pvp aspect. I run enough mana and LMC to survive just fine.