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DEVs, here's the reasons why you guys are killing the brand new race.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by WarUltima, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Is it intended to make life of a gargoyle so damn difficult?
    Here you DEV please read thru and pardon my whiny-ness

    1. Armor:

    As I finished making a suit for my gargoyle and put him in faction just to realize ALL of the faction arties (as well as ALL EXISTING arties) can no longer be altered anymore. When I was in closed beta I am pretty sure I've altered many arties for gargs to use and it was even STATED by devs being an advantages of a gargoyle.

    2. Specialized attacks (not usable).

    Ok on top of that gargoyles Legendary Samurais cannot nerve strike (because gargoyle cant use bokuto and bokuto isnt alterable).

    3. Throwing < Archery in every single aspect (well it takes no bolts or arrows but that'snot gonna cut it)

    THEN I just did a damage test on throwing weapon vs archery weapon Soul Glaive vs Crossbow. Without quiver 10% modified dmg at 40DI, Crossbow out damages Soul Glaive at any tile (they both have same base dmg). I did notice a 10% damage bons using soul glaive at "sweet spot" which put it at same dmg as crossbow. Then ok there's no DI gloves (hard to capout 100DI), no LMC Mana regen breastpiece(carapace), No HCI/DCI/HLD hat, No apron slot, Cannot wear boots, No sash slot...

    4. PvM Weapons

    THEN oh yea there's more...
    NOT ONLY there's only 1 Whirwind weapon for gargoyle but its also insultingly SLOW and TWO HANDED! and at CAPPED OUT 30SSI it still doesnt even swing at cap speed even with 180 stamina.

    5. PvP remounting: No instant mounting method compared to human/elves.

    THEN because there's no mount for gargoyles and taking off (acting like summoning an ethy) for flying is interruptable, gargoyles get perma stuck on foot in PvP.

    6. Awkward limitations on certain spells.

    Oh yea you cannot go into vamp form while flying. If in PvP and someone purge magic your vamp form out, the only way to get it back is... 1. LAND 2. Recast Vamp form 3. Take off flyig again and cross your finger there's no mage there to blow wind at you which will disrrupt the take off.

    7. Non-medable/Weak/Negative Effects Artificts

    HALF of the gargoyle only arty armor pieces arent medable. And ALL the arty weapon has really really low DI, low SSI, and NEGATIVE EFFECTS (human/elven arties usually come with 40-50DI, amazing ssi, amazing mods with ZERO Negative effects.)

    8. Runics Kits

    Runic mullet and chisel kits comes with only 10 charges regardless of level. Dull Copper and Verite runic mullet and chisels are all 10 charges...




    It's great IMO for the first time in UO life, an new skill/race introduced by an new expansion did not utterly overpower EVERYTHING. But is it really intended to introduce gargoyle race as the "Race of Imbuing Mules." Gargoyle has no advantage PvP AND PvM compare to humans and elves. The only thing they excel at is getting tiny bonus in imbuing items...

    Anyways sorry about the whining.

    I just want to find out if there's a gargoyle/throwing rebalancing pass coming up? Or if it's intended to make gargoyle really really ****ty that the sole purpose of having a gargoyle character is to become imbuing mule?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Fink

    Fink Guest

    I'm pretty sure that's as intended. It is like using an ethereal mount as nobody can lure your wings off or kill them, so.. you get the benefit of an invulnerable mount with the summoning drawback too.

    I want a runic mullet. :party:
     
  3. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    The #1 reason you listed..... about arties and not being able to convert 90% of them to Gargoyle is the biggest reason I have NOT converted any of my characters to gargoyle yet.

    The jewlery and everything else not being medable totally ruins gargoyles for me.

    I have about 3 or 4 characters that await being switched to gargoyle simply because of the issue with converting their things to gargish. Don't see myself redoing all the armor...

    Not sure if the jewelery has been fixed yet or not and I am rather annoyed that I can't switch my current artifacts to gargish ones... I know most of it worked in test.
     
  4. S.P.A

    S.P.A Journeyman
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    With a runic mullet, you could make hairstyles to feature in these:

    Mullet Top Trumps
     
  5. Wakiza

    Wakiza Guest

    I agree, the gargolye race is weak. Example, flying is nice, but having a mount is still better. For one if you land, and take damage, you cannot fly again untill you are full health. So if your fighting, and get dismounted (or grounded) you are basically screwed. Opposed to other races, they can remount with only a sliver of hit points remaining and zoom away.

    The arties and weapon specials for the gargolye race are very limited. I would imagine more will be added though.

    Gargolyes: cannot take flight if damaged

    Mysticism: The Bombard spell stun is not working.

    Fix please!
     
  6. Xenobia

    Xenobia Lore Keeper
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    I totally agree with you. I "changed" one of my bards to garg and then created a garg character. I am half tempted to change my bard back to elf because of the hassle of not being able to ride and the armor/clothing issue. No arties, very few clothing slots etc etc.
     
  7. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Bump for the very slim chance that DEV might see this and reconsidering making gargoyles about 80% as good as human and elves (rightnow they are so bad that there's zero point of having gargoyle character outside am MULE character. :bowdown:
     
  8. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    *ponders why my gargoyle is my most successful character ever if they are so useless*
     
  9. Wakiza

    Wakiza Guest

    My guess would be your difinition of success.
     
  10. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    You apperently dont do enough different aspects in game to realize such blantant obvious facts.
    Some people like myself PvP heavily while PvM on various of templates. I can pure mage duel and I can click and follow on an archer. I can disco all kill. I can grow plants and craft. And in the end I care about balance as a PvPer also.

    It's not tough to see the issues here, I believe even you know. Otherwise I'd LOVE to see you enlighten me on how big of an "advantage" your gargoyle has over human/elves.
     
  11. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    just curious what is your gargoyle template?
    mine is
    120 imbuing
    120 myst or will be at 108 now
    120 eval 110 right now
    120 magery 110 right now
    120 med 110 right now
    120 spellweave not added yet need to do quest
    100 music and piece atm will be removing to add weave
    then remaining points I may put scribe on not sure yet
    but so far this is starting to be a very fun template the key Is getting to were I don't have spell fail

    and great imbued jewels and items
    I also run with great weapon that I use enchant on ! when needed
    the one draw back was i needed to put alot of stamina regen and increase on for flying..
     
  12. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    The big advantage of my gargoyle is that I can have 5 slots of followers on the field while still retaining high mobility and spellcasting ability. I designed a character based on gargoyle abilities and I feel I have been rewarded for it.

    I'm not a PvPer and I'm not going to claim any knowledge or competence at PvP balance, so I'm not arguing that point. But if the OP applied and was accepted into the closed beta as he states, then didn't he volunteer to take some responsibility for testing the balance? I realize that there were last minute changes, but a lot of the things being complained about are really basic things that he should have been on the vanguard of testing on behalf of all people who share his playstyle.

    I'm not saying it's too late to offer feedback and make suggestions. But to disrespectfully slam the devs is just egg on his own face.
     
  13. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    I fly around with water el and earth el (5 slots) they seems to make a great combo ...
     
  14. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    They wanted to err on the side of caution. Said it'd be easier to make things stronger after release than nerfing them. They erred on caution so far they fell off a cliff.
     
  15. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Well to be fair, the two worst things to gargoyles happened last minute. Regarding the throwing nerf there was tons of negative feedback, and throughout beta, the artifacts could be altered for gargoyles, they took that out after beta.
     
  16. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Actually I was one of the main closed beta tester on PvP aspects of gargoyle and throwing. I am the first one to question 15 yd moving shot from throwing will destory PvP balance. I am also the one that commented on instant taking off for gargoyles might be too good.

    Sorry maybe you didnt took closed beta serious, but I did. I told DEVs the 15 yard range on throwing is stupid because I was throwing my SG at a monster that's not even on my screen, and its longer than spellcasting range so many mobs cant even fight back... BUT they went wayyyyyy over board and nerfed the range down to ****ter than archery, put in huge DI penalty for throwing at max range and HUGE Hci AND Dci bonus for throwing too close.

    The effectiveness of throwing comparing to archery? Archery has 110 due to having quiver modified damage (Damage modifier is THE BEST Damage Increase in UO btw~~ hope you understand how it works)
    Tiles 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and so on...
    Archery 110%, 110%, 110%, 110%, 110%, 110%, 110%, 110%, 110%
    Throwing 60% 70% 85% 95% 100% 110% 110% 100% 85% 70% 60%

    Throwing HAS TO BE IN THE SWEET SPOT to get the damage bonus to match the quiver damage that works from ANYWHERE and even gives 5 dci bonus!! and various of FREE damage splits that dont take up an extra mod on weapon.

    There's no DI, Hci, Dci penalty for archery. Archery at point blank is as good as a melee dexer taking a swing, and why isnt this the case for throwing especially even a noob that just started UO can tell you that throwing has no significant benefit over archery outside ammo cost.

    You know a bonus good enough to offset the insultingly huge penalty for throwing... something like free lighting strike effect if using throwing weapon at sweet spot for a small chance of critting (caps at 35).

    I did a tons of testing during closed beta and throwing/gargoyle is ****ty like this probably is due to DEV listened but they went wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too far and it's not hard to figure out...

    Now if you go to fel do you see any gargoyle pvping as main (I saw TONS OF ELVES PvPing the day ML came out) other than a few gimp garg tamers only because they can fly and speedhack away while all killing with a GD...

    EXACTLY...
     
  17. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    You should know by now tha everything the DEV do always go overboard. Either they extremly overpower something or they nerf it out of existance there is never a between with the or even a moderation.
    When you offered your suggestions you had to make sure to put don't nerf this past this or nerf that past that. They need absolutes or they will make gd into rabbits and mongbats into ancient wyrm or making sampire into item id and imbuing into camping. They always do it always!!! When it comes to them becareful what you say you might get it 10 x fold.
     
  18. Harb

    Harb Guest

    Looks like a feud building where most unecessary, you guys are just speaking different languages. Like Warultima, I'm pretty close to disgusted with throwing, and like Maplestone, am pleased with my tamer and actually enjoy the mystic/ mage/ imbuer in the PvM context. I wasn't welcome to participate in the beta this time around, but have nothing but praise for those who were. Miner posted a very interesting thread in the warrior forum, that includes emails circulated between dev and the testers regarding throwing. And as Miner also points out, the worst received parts of the publish were last minute changes by dev, and in all likelihood by only 1 or 2 of the folks there. Even before it was spelled out to the rest of us, it was evident these were last minute changes had occured and in concert with the preference to make the intro of gargoyles milder than whats occurred previously. But as in every other thread I've seen or spoken in along these lines, throwing is badly, badly broken.
     
  19. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    Oh get over it garg's can Fly!:D
     
  20. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Throwing is very broken alright.
    Its nothing but nerfed archery with crap all around, otherwise archery is too powerful.

    Str requirement just to be able to throw at max range dex requirement to reduce hci penalty, too close is bad, too far is also bad... i mean come on dev/naysayers you cant be so freaking ignorant.
     
  21. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    Well throwing the way it is is not a viable skill atleast to me! but I am sure the devs will be making changes to this ! with all the negative feed back how could they not! the whole range thing bytes the close range maybe is ok depending on what throwing weapon you have I guess and I think you should have swords for up close!
    but as for the rest of the gargoyle things I am starting to like it!
     
  22. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Ok I understand what you mean and I wish DEVs do fix it. Throwing is like 60% of archery if even that.

    Something I gotta point out.

    The range stated on the throwing weapons is the MAX. The only way to achieve the max range is by having 150 Strength. One Hundred and Fifty. 150! It's the HARD CAP of strength! If your strength isnt capped out at 150 you will not be able to throw the weapon at stated range.

    Then you need 120 swordsmanship to negative *most* of close range HCI penalty... notice I say most? Yes other than 120 swords you also need 150 Dex to completely nullify the penalty.

    Ok you see where I am going? You need 150 str and 150 dex AND 120 swordsmanship for throwing to function like archery (but with weaker dmg Sweet spot doesnt cut the quiver dmg, and 10 less possible ssi compare to archery weapon sure make it more ********).

    I wont even go into the whole 0% chance to hit without parry skill with a shield...

    Lets cut down archers' hit chance by 60% if they shoot someone too close, and then lets cut down archers' damage by 50% if they try to shoot someone farther. Then lets make archers have to have melee weapon skill otherwise they take 60% MORE hci penalty if someone is too close. Then let's take away archers' quiver modified dmg. Then make the highest possible ssi on bows 30%. Oh yea I will throw in some bones. Archers gets unlimited bolts and arrows... with all those TINY NEGATIVE BONUSES stated above as a whole package... OK?

    I will put $3000 on it (my entire paycheck), that archers will go on a freaking riot because their weapon skill is "adjusted" to have comparable power as the brand spaking new skill, throwing.

    Throwing has faster swing speed (not really) which is offset by archery weapon having more ssi.
    Throwing has more dmg (not really) which is owned out of existance because archers has free 10% MOFIFIED DAMAGE (not damage increase)

    If its not ok for archery why throwing? Tell me in straight face other than throwing weapon takes no ammo to use what advantages it have over archery? :sad4:
     
  23. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    @ war ultima...I hate to break it to ya...but half of what you are upset with now I was complaining about in beta. Not to nitpick, but you were one of those often in disagreement with what I brought up.

    :sadpandaface:
     
  24. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    i for sure am not disagreeing on any of those points ! and I agree! I dont think a throwing weapon should have the range of a bow though! I think it should be based in some way from str (not sure what exactly would be fair!) I hate to say this but in RL I will out distance you and out shoot you with my bow compared to anything you want to throw!
    but this is not RL its a game and for sure throwing is not good the way it is ! I am not sure of the answer though! Why not start a constructive thread to see what people would like to see and how they think it should be changed! that's what I think we need!
     
  25. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    So.. you're saying that gargoyles are the most advantages race because they have 5 slots when mounted despite their insane and blantantly obvious weaknesses that put them under all races? Did you think about using a non tamer/summoning mage? or did you only think that one class exists? I don't mean to be rude but it sounds like you have no idea what's going on with the gargoyle race.
     
  26. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    I put the round peg in the round hole.

    If you are determined you want a square peg there then I can't help you.
     
  27. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    I'm not arguing against your choice, I'm just saying, just because the 5 slots benefit your tamer/mage, can't you see that they have seriously problems for everyone else?
     
  28. guum

    guum Guest

    Also, without knowing precisely what your garg's template is, Maplestone, have you considered that it is the character type you are playing that is powerful rather than the race you are using? I'm sure it's possible to create a decent gargoyle; but all things considered, in every situation I have been able to conceive of using a gargoyle character, the same (or similar) template would be even more powerful as one of the other two races.
     
  29. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    I hate to tell you, Maplestone, but there were not SOME last minute changes, there were GOBS of them, changes that they never let even the beta testers test. Things that were one way the whole 6 months of beta tests and rolled live completely different. There were also things that we BESEACHED them to change, daily, weekly, monthly, and it fell on deaf ears (such as the "ability" to become more vulnerable when you are almost dead known as "Berserk").

    I am not going to say they did a bad job with the expansion ... but I can tell you I played a gargoyle strictly in beta - MONTHS of playing only a garg - and as they went live, I would not make on on production if you paid me to.
     
  30. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    I don't care much for playing my tamer lately. But the only real use I have found for Gargoyle is tanking SA champ mini bosses. At first I was delighted that I could just keep summoning RC and the bosses would go down pretty easily. But the new wore off of that soon enough.

    The little spawn leading up to the champ was a nightmare to manage. I found myself relying heavily on magery to work the spawn as RC doesnt get aggro and seems to be blind as a bat. The mystic mid tear damaging spells are weak and high-end are all mana sucking mediocre damage AoE that seemed to do little more than **** everything off and send the spawn straight to me. And nether bolt? What use is chaos damage? Imagine hurling a spear at something content with the knowledge that it may turn into a bunny rabbit or a water balloon.

    Another option was to herd everything together, plop a RC right in the middle of them and invis. And RC usually went poof half way through that. I grew tired of being a flying piece of cheese. So off to see if this skill has any other use...

    Pressing forward I did a bedlam spawn with a couple tamers and it really looked like they were having fun. Even though the dungeon is fairly tight spaced, most of the time I found myself waiting for RC to dispell so I could re-summon in the appropriate area. Since nothing else aggroed it, RC was content to run off fighting the next smartest baddie while the rest of the spawn stood idle. We get to the griz and my job was to watch my control slots... when slot = 0, arcane empower/resummon. Heal the tamers' drags in between.

    SO I think ok lets try the champ here. Finally! A tight area where RC was content to hop around one-shotting boglings and it's advancing the spawn nicely. As we get to the next level we retreat toward the entrance to funnel everything to a choke point. All of the sudden RC is lost in a sea of dead bodies and again I am watching my control slots and healing drags.

    I try my ability at crowd control when one of the tamers DCs. I learn mass sleep = sleep x2. Because 2 critters were all that would stop in a mass of 20 or so in a 6X6 area marching in true lynch mob fashion and heading straight toward me. The tamer gets back on and the two get things under control.

    Searching for some sort of contribution to the cause I throw out a few hailstorms.. lots of 50's and 60's pop up and dont ya know it... every one of them loose intrest in anythning else other than making me pay for the bad wheather.

    Earlier today I spent a few hours exploring Ter Mur thuroughly. I decided to take my garg so I could use it to explore and garg only fly zones I found along the way. I get to a Raptor area and discover a very bad glitch. I do not know if others have experienced this but you know the drill. Whomever coded raptors is a big Jurrasic Park fan and put in a clever ambush AI. But every time the Raptor's two buddies would spawn, the client would lag out so bad I couldn't move and it stayed lagged out until I hear the berserk cry. A nice little reminder that I am going to die in the next second or so.

    To make matters worse, since I am right clicking trying to fall back, I auto cancel my sappling res because the gump pops up instanly when you die. There isnt a healer in sight.. time I get a little break waiting for the help/stuck option to kick in. Insert a few "get stuff/die/help/stuck" loops here. An hour later I am out of that god forsaken place... so what do I do?... go back. This time w/a human on horseback. I spend the next 20 minutes or so sailing in and out of raptor traps with no lag. Next test:

    1. Restart pc
    2. log in gargoyle
    3. goto raptor spawn
    4. lag
    5. die
    6. help/stuck
    7. get stuff
    8. lag
    9. die
    10. help/stuck
    11. leave stuff
    12. logout gargoyle

    I'm sure there are many uses for the new skill(s) and gargoyles. Today I didn't learn any of them.
    /rant
     
  31. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I love my gargoyle mule. She makes a wonderful sweatshop worker, artifacts creator, and bookie for my c0ck fighting operation. Heck, she works for food and can beat the hell outta whoever gets in my way. No brains tho, and cant fly for shi...
     
  32. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    What!?!?! We have runics for our fishermen now? Or are they for the cooks preparing the bento boxes? Don't think I've ever had mullet sushi though. :lick:
     
  33. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    I have GOT to get out more!

    Geezis...I never even REALIZED we have Runic Mullets!!

    But OK...I don't like to complain...

    But one of my crafters has a Top Knot.

    Does anyone know if there will be any type of runic clippers coming out?

    I, too, just like Fink, want a runic mullet, but I am afraid that they have nerfed top knot cuts, and never even told anyone, or me.

    So yeah...I AM a little miffed about the whole mullet thing.

    rolleyes:
     
  34. Xenobia

    Xenobia Lore Keeper
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    I hate to quote all of that but it is the best post added to this thread so far. If all I wanted to do was fly around...then I suppose gargoyles would be awesome. But if I want to play the game, I grab anything OTHER then the gargoyle. I had my guildmate stand there and let me cast a few of the new spells on him. He laughed at me and then killed me promptly and said It was because I wasted his time lol I felt like a moron for wasting my time gaining that skill and with all the bad press about throwing, I'm not about to waste anymore of my time on that skill until I know it will be at least comparable with fencing and swords.
     
  35. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    How would you kill something which was never been alive?
     
  36. Harb

    Harb Guest

    At the risk of being repetitive, I'll be a little more specific on what I have found that works and what doesn't, in a little more detail in this thread as it seems to have more traction than predecessors. I play 3 gargoyles of 14 characters, 1 a conversion, 2 built from the ground to replace now transferred characters.

    Character 1 is a race conversion, a tamer, at 120 taming, 120 lore, 100 vet, 100 magery, 100 med, 100 hiding, 80 stealth. I like it as a gargoyle. The reason is it can fly, allowing for mobility even with a greater or 5 slot combo in tow. Based on item restrictions, it suffers in PvM from significantly less luck than other tamers on our accounts, and again due to items, there is a heavy requirement for imbuing associated to the character. If luck is deemed as a higher priority for whatever we might be doing on a particular evening, this is not my character of choice. But currently, the character is likeable and getting some game play. I would not deem the gargoyle race and the SA "release" a success based on an added variable to taming, frankly taming is one of the last things really needing any form of boost!

    Character 2 is 6 weeks old, a mage, at 120 mysticism, 120 imbuing, 120 magery, 120 eval, 120 med, and 120 resist, with 100 scribe on a soulstone. I do enjoy this character quite a bit, but see it in a more specific role, PvM in the Abyss for imbuing resources. It plays extremely well in this designed role. Again, you have mobility with either a rising colossus (which were nerfed a tad on p61 but still viable) or a 5 slot summon combo, and the area effect spells are lethal to the Abysss spawn. As with the tamer, there is a heavy imbued item requirement associated to this character, as what’s out there for gargoyles in artifact form is not medible. This character is getting most of my current play time, which likely is to continue for some time. As with the first character, I would not deem the gargoyle race and the SA "release" a success based on a movement boost to a caster, don't see this character as PvP competitive as our other mages, and suspect many might balance mobility vs item properties in favor of the other races with an identical skill set.

    Character 3 is a thrower. Another new character, the guy is still a mess, despite far more effort than the others for the month following the release. From what we were hearing prior to the publish, I was under the belief this was the area most likely to allow development of a character versatile in both PvP and PvM. Throwing, more to WarUltimas original points, is currently utterly and completely broken. The drive toward an optimal range is probably a good idea conceptually, but in any form of play other than a group PvM very difficult to attain and maintain against anything more than a mongbat. The limitations need review. I've tried mine in two major variants, as a melee/ range character, and as a caster/ range thrower (which from notes posted by Miner in the warrior forum seems to be labeled a “hybrid” by our dev folks). I went the latter route first, going with 120 throwing, 120 eval, 120 mysticism, 100 imbuing, 100 tactics, 100 anatomy, 60 chiv + jewelry. You can cast either colossus or animated weapon and begin your tossing, so once you have the optimal range, it’s a little easier to maintain. Where it gets rough is trying to get strength (it takes 140 str to attain max range for weapons, and 120 to lose only one tile), stam/ dex to 120 so you’re not a slow-motion “dexxer,” and if casting is a way of life, as much mana/ int as you can muster. It’s a challenge, even with imbued clothing. There’s also the troubling effect of the DCI penalty, as even that mongbat I mentioned earlier hits you every single swing which is more devastating to your newly imbued gear than the character itself, and the penalty is so excessive I couldn’t find a way to offset it. After noting on UOGuide that you could offset penalties with swords and parry, I tried a different route, where I still am today. 120 throwing, 120 swords, 120 parry, 100 tact, 100 anat, 100 heal, 60 chiv + jewelry. The range penalties suddenly weren’t “as” bad, I could manage stat requirements, and playing the character had a “better feel” to it. But again there’s a major downside, even with 120 parry, you cannot parry a single incoming blow (most likely a bug per conversation with Miner elsewhere (unfortunately dev does not seem to wish to comment)), and the DCI problems are still overwhelming. It can be fixed, I’d recommend maintaining the concept of an optimal range (in a lesser penalized method coupled with a greater optimal range boost for both HCI and damage) and would maintain the current str requirements, but would lower significantly the DCI penalty and enable parry to actually parry if the skill is present. As it stands now, throwing and the gargoyle requirement associated to it so far as I can tell is a failure. The poor guy is probably forever retired unless something significant changes, and is currently receiving no game play time at all. If this was supposed to lend success to the introduction of the gargoyle race and the SA “release,” someone was badly, badly mistaken.
     
  37. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    wanna solve this issue.....take the arties out of factions, make the players use skill........which obviously a vast sum of them don't have.
     
  38. Nyses

    Nyses Lore Keeper
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    Sorry to break it to you, but NEEDING skill to be effective in this game died with the Introduction of AOS ( Age of Stuff). All you need now, is the right gear and the right speedhack (in Pvp).
     
  39. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    No, Maplestone is simply saying that it is good for a tamer/mage, nothing more, nothing less. Naturally what is good for a tamer may not be good for every class. I think your taking that post a bit too far in assuming he is referring to every class being good on the gargoyle just because it works his tamer.
     
  40. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    Mysticism is definitely a candidate for changes if any. Here are a few ideas f for some garg only tweaks to Mysticism:

    1. Netherbolt

    Keep the chaos damage for low level skill but give a one percent bonus for every one point in skill that that netherbolt would target lowest resist, Sort of a consecrate weapon effect. Keep the original animation/sound effect for chaos damage but change the animation to a red firey effect if the spell pops off to lowest resist: Fire. Same for the other elemental effects.

    Animations and sounds are important. If my netherbolt pops off fire, me and those around me know that the enemies lowest resist is fire... and they can adjust accordingly. This would be a great tweak for consecrate weapon (though not garg only) as well.. different colored effects and sounds for the animation.


    2. Rising Colossus

    At least have the dam thing follow the caster if it has nothing to do. widening aggro range would be helpful. Am I pushing it to ask that bad guys should want to kill it? If so being able to command it is probably way out of line.


    3. Enchant weapon

    Brilliant concept but with a few annoyances. The biggest one concerning the spell channeling bonus for > 80 Mystic/imbuing skill. If I am casting when the spell wears while holding a non SC weapon I auto disarm myself. Second annoyance being having to deal with the select enchant gump on casting the spell.

    To fix these I'd love the spell to be changed so that at 90 (Garg) skill it stays active until death, debuff or disarm. Also give the hit spell effect a different look and sound than the normal effect. Different sights and sounds are very helpful in PvP to let opponents know they are using a spell for hit effect damage and allows them to counter with disarm, pure magic or any other de-buff tool to cripple the attacker's damage potential. This would also get around fiddling with the selection gump for hit effects in mid battle.

    Another alternative to gumps would be to break the enchants into their own spells. Maybe spread them around a few circles.

    NEW SPELL

    Grandmaster's enchant- minimum skill 100 - (all races) Gives the caster's weapon the "Mystic Weapon" modification. Mystic weapon works exactly like a mage weapon only it relies on the casters Mysticism skill as a weapon skill. GM enchant will not work for archery but will work for throwing. Although you need at least 100 skill to cast GM Enchant, you need only 80 skill to maintain it. At 100 you will receive a -20 penalty to both mysticism and imbuing while this spell is in effect. However this penalty is scalable and reduces gradually as the mystic's (real) skill becomes more powerful.

    Skill penalty examples:

    100 mysticism skill - Mysticism/imbuing -20
    105 mysticism skill - Mysticism/imbuing -15
    110 mysticism skill - Mysticism/imbuing -10
    115 mysticism skill - Mysticism/imbuing -5
    120 mysticism skill - Mysticism/imbuing -0

    Gargoyle bonus to GM Enchant. For Gargoyles, casting GM enchant with a normal hit effect enchant spell active will occasionaly turn that hit effect into an area effect. Chances for AoE improve slightly with greater skill in mysticism and imbuing. This bonus effect can be canceled by casting the normal enchant spell again while GM enchant is active.

    GM enchant will remain effective untill death, debuff or disarm.
     
  41. maroite

    maroite Guest

    ... So let me guess you're playing a mage and/or tamer.

    My main, a mage/tamer I converted to gargoyle and have been happy with it, but its definitly lacking in MANY areas. Just because I can sit back and heal my pets doesn't mean things aren't broken.

    Examples are an EXTREME lack of caster gear. The no gloves/hat are possibly the biggest down fall. Due to no hat, you're restricted from using two of the best + SDI items in the game. No gloves means you have to stack more mods onto other slots which could have been used to boost things like SDI.

    Racial Bezerking is just a death sentence. Its worthless.

    Many of the new arties aren't as good, or even near as good as old arties, especially in the ring/bracelet department.

    Uhh... I guess you missed this...

    No offense but maplestone is just trolling, which is sad considering he/she is a "mod". By even suggesting that the gargoyle race is ONLY meant to be played as a mage and/or tamer is rediculous.

    If you look at the majority of Arties available to the gargoyle race they are mostly for NONE mage templates.

    There are maybe 3 decent mage/tamer arties.
     
  42. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    Berserker mode should work the opposite way. It should give you DCI +20, fc 4 cap, HCI -10, DI -10. Something to give you MORE survivability, rather than a death sentence.

    I'm really hoping they fix throwing. It's too dang confusing the way it is now.

    Swordsmanship + throwing combo is wierd. If you're planning on training both at same time, it seems swordsmanship doesn't gain at all while holding a throwing weapon and you're up close doing hand to hand. It leads people to believe it's broken.