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Devs, we want a client like this!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by ress me plz, Jan 5, 2011.

  1. ress me plz

    ress me plz Guest

  2. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Iris has not worked properly since its inception.... I guess next people will argue because it is not developed for cash money?

    Edit: Have to agree with Thunder below me also. While a new....spiffy client would be nice, I am not so sure about full 3d, aside from that it is not like it looks nice anyhow. :)
     
  3. NewThunder

    NewThunder Guest

    I do not want a client like that!
     
  4. ress me plz

    ress me plz Guest

  5. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Better to have 1 option....although I am not against something Like "that" and having an option to turn it into the classic client/enhanced client view, So long as a client like that had actual...whats it called, if enough people actually wanted it and it made sense to it in a business sense. But again....client has not worked "good" since back in 2001? when it was first thought up heh. Although I will be fair I have not tried it in about 3 years? but the video in your first post is from 2008...so that is about the last time I used it.
     
  6. SchezwanBeefy

    SchezwanBeefy Lore Master
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    I actually don't like the way this looks, but I think it's pretty cool people went to the efforts to do it. =]
     
  7. ress me plz

    ress me plz Guest

    But imagine a client like this, built by ea with 2011 graphic O_O they can call it UOresurection!
     
  8. Babble

    Babble Guest

    For a commercial product graphics should be better.
    But for only a few peeps who got together and did it for fun, this is great.

    I am not sure you could not use it in ea shards too, you would have to include the ea incription they do for their data stream, but I see no reason why the client shoudl not work.
     
  9. ress me plz

    ress me plz Guest

    you can do it?
     
  10. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Well a certain unnamed program emulates the encryption so you can log to EA shards, so I see no reason why it should not work.
     
  11. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    If nothing else that client shows that it could be done. UO could be turned into a full, modern, 3D game, without having to start from scratch. And the thing is, once you've made that transition, the sky is the limit, you can go from there to reworking the terrain, little by little if you want, until you've transformed UO using the latest technology and graphics capabilities, all without destroying the heart of the game.

    It could be done, all that's lacking is the will to do it.
     
  12. Babble

    Babble Guest

    BTW they are working on Iris 2 now
    Iris2

    No idea if it is better or why they have 3 options of graphics: 3rd-person, 1st-person and 2D-iso mode.

    If someone could check it out and make pictures?
     
  13. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Ignoring, for the moment, that free shards should not be posted here, Iris has been posted before, many times. At no time have I seen more than a demo with a single person riding round.
    Is this client actually capable of handling the kind of load that is required for use on the scale that's needed?
     
  14. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    All Iris ever does is show you how out-of-whack the ratios of scale are in UO, and how the game has clearly been designed with an isometric-style view in mind.

    In full-3D, the world looks small as hell and greatly underwhelming, people are as tall as buildings, buildings are as tall as the mountains, the tile-based movement system seems clunky, etc.

    The only way to do UO in 3D is to completely rebuild and redesign the world with the scales and scope one sees in games such as WoW, Age of Conan, LotRO, and others; I.e. huge mountain ranges, sweeping vistas, giant castles, wide rivers, etc.
     
  15. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I was thinking Client performance was very closely related to PC performance, and bandwidth. Aren't those the reasons we can't have something nice too? That's the official reasons I remember hearing over the years, whenever the ideas of an EC product was explored.

    I'm pretty sure there's plenty still on dial-up and prob using 486/586 w/ crap graphics. UO still runs metrics, so they know collectively what hardware their users are running. Is it fair that users have to go buy a new PC to keep playing? NO (IMO, at some point Yes, they need to upgrade - the game has to grow over time to survive, or it will be left behind, and die).

    People say how good some of the other games look, they should Also incl PC performance specs required as well, not min specs, but what it takes to make it look like the demo. Then I'd like to see $much it's gonna cost for an avg. machine to play.
     
  16. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    There would need 2011 graphics, you said it. And for what? A tile by tile game. Frankly there's no point going 3D with UO. You would expect from a 3D game that the movements are in 3D, not tile by tile.

    Devs should focus on a beautiful isometric game and certainly not a 3D client. Too much time and money have been wasted like that.
     
  17. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Actually I don't think it is as bad as all that. The scale of the Iris client doesn't seem all that out of whack for me, and I think any scale issues wouldn't be that hard to fix.

    I see what you are saying, but frankly, I think with a truly 3D client they could abandon tile based movement. They could keep the tile based system in place for customized housing, but for everything else, I think they could do away with it.

    I honestly don't know if it is a good idea or not, and maybe you are right, maybe they should focus on creating a beautiful isometric game with updated, high quality graphics. But what I do think the Iris client demonstrates is that a fully realized 3D Ultima Online universe is possible without starting over from scratch.
     
  18. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    That's really cool stuff. I was trying to place myself in the map to see how accurately it matched up with our UO. In alot of ways, it's impressive and in some ways it might have more potential.

    One of the interesting things, with UO, is how anyone can recreate the game and then be able to use it or create free shards of exact copies or just about do anything they want. I mean what happened there? It's almost like UO has this will to survive that no other game has.
     
  19. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    The original beta for Iris was playable on almost every free shard for like 2 years in UO:R. It had bugs to it but frankly it worked better than most clients ea has put out. I tested the old Iris, the names Iris and Iris 2.0 are misleading, there have been like 5 or 6 inceptions of it. the older model which was a super art intense enhanced client worked as well as the current enhanced client minus the movement changes they put into this enhanced client.

    It's also been said, quite correctly, that many features put into major free shards, their software, and ideas, get added stealthily into uo.
     
  20. Dicimiie

    Dicimiie Guest

    To be honest, UO would lose the Ultima feel if it were to go to a 3D client. None of the Ultima RPG games were 3D (if memory serves correctly). The tile-based style of UO makes UO feel like the Ultima I remember.

    There is, however, no reason why they couldn't make the tile-based graphics better than they are. The KR graphics, to me, don't look good at all. There are quite a number of games out there that simply have a better look to their tile-based or isometric view.
     
  21. Babble

    Babble Guest

    There is a team out there recreating Star wars galaxies, before the new gaming experience.
    Earth and Beyond is in the works too.
    So there is quite some development for even dead games.
    Not sure if tabula Rasa or Shadowbane have people working on emulators though.
     
  22. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    This is a bit ot, but I'd love to see someone write a book on the history of game modding. Obviously as long as there have been games people have been making up their own rules, and variations on rules, and creating their own art, even if it is just some old sailor carving chess pieces out of whale bone. But game modding has really blossomed and grown along with the internet, and has become a revolution in gaming as profound as the internet itself has been.

    There isn't a major game that has been released for the pc (I'm not as familiar with other platforms) that hasn't been modded, and most major games released now are designed specifically with modders in mind. And popular old computer games don't die, they are appropriated and transformed by their modding communities.

    I don't have exact statistics, but modding has also become a way of breaking into the gaming industry. The gaming industry is extremely competitive, with far fewer positions available than there are applicants for creative positions, but paradoxically too few coders and artists with the kind of experience and expertise necessary to work in what is a highly demanding and specialized field. Modding has become a way for many to gain that experience and expertise.

    The most successful game developers these days find ways of harnessing the talents, energy and imagination of their modding communities to add longevity and value to the products they offer. The problem with UO is that it was one of the very first of it's kind and was released before the modding revolution took hold, and as such the mods for it were unexpected, unsanctioned and for the most part took the form of cheats, or unapproved iterations such as the server engine providing the basis for free shards. And the developers of UO have been dealing with the negative consequences of that unforeseen revolution ever since.

    But with the advent of the KR client and the EC, UO's developers have officially joined the modding revolution which is one of the main reasons, in my opinion, why the EC is a good thing. When you open your product up to modders it allows you to channel the energies of those who might otherwise be using their talents to create mods which are harmful to the integrity of the game. And of course anyone who has played UO for more than a few months can come up with a list of those mods on their own without my having to break the Stratics ROC. :)
     
  23. ress me plz

    ress me plz Guest

    Personally, i love the classic client, i think is super!
    But if we have more option to choice (classic, anchanced and a sort of iris with better graphic) UO can compete with many of the modern mmorpg out there! and maybe the number of ppl turns up)
     
  24. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Shadowbane is being rebuilt as well. It's actually being beta tested.
     
  25. I agree.
     
  26. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    Alas it isn't possible. The real coordinates of items and mobile units in this game are a number of tiles. Your client makes you believe you go from one tile to another, but in terms of gameplay calculation (ranges, line of sight, etc), you are either on one tile or on another, not in-between. To remove the tiles, they would have to re-code about everything.
     
  27. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I'm not looking for a fight here, but I do think it would be possible. Of course it would require a rewrite of the server and client code from the ground up. The real question is, would it be worth it?

    Most new games go through a honeymoon period where they attract a large number of new clients, before they settle down to what will become their longer term client base. If you take an old game and redo it from the bottom up, will you have the same kind of bump in sales that would offset the investment made to remake the game?

    What can be guaranteed is that they would lose a percentage of their clients for whom the isometric 2D client is the game, because it would not be possible to maintain the 2D client in that context. So it really comes down to the bean counters. Would that kind of transformation of the game attract enough new clients both in the short term and longer term to make the investment worthwhile?

    It would be a gamble, and I very much doubt it is the kind of gamble that EA would be willing to finance, especially not given their current fiscal status.
     
  28. ress me plz

    ress me plz Guest

    I think that if UO will be rewrite in a modern 3D, many of the players from mortal, darkfall and the other sandbox will come in our community :)

    In many italian mmorpg forums, hundreds of ppl says: "UO, GOOD OLD TIMES, BUT THE GRAPHIC! IS TOO OLD!" EA have try to renew UO with the enchanced client but...seriously...it seems a joke...
     
  29. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    UO is such a tiny sliver of EA's bottome line. But I agree that they would have to gamble that a re-written game would have to depend soley on new players to support it.

    The current 3D client was a gamble to attract new players that failed. I say it was a gamble, assuming management wasn't sold on the idea that all the expense in creating the 3d client was justified by maintaing the current player base. It just makes sense they were promised increased revenue through new subs as a result. But the new folks didnt come and the old folks wouldn't touch it either. Warhammer was another bad gamble and maybe EA is a little gun shy with that compounded by a slumping economy.

    So ya its a pretty hard pitch now to say "hey let's rebuild it from the ground up" when the dreamers, developers and mangement thereof already have two (current) strikes against them. But I think it is a better idea than another attempt at a 3d client companion to the old 2d. At least if it fails they can just shut it off.
     
  30. Meat Elemental

    Meat Elemental Journeyman
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    The current 3D client was a gamble to attract new players that failed. I say it was a gamble, assuming management wasn't sold on the idea that all the expense in creating the 3d client was justified by maintaing the current player base. It just makes sense they were promised increased revenue through new subs as a result. But the new folks didnt come and the old folks wouldn't touch it either. Warhammer was another bad gamble and maybe EA is a little gun shy with that compounded by a slumping economy.



    *Looks everywhere for this elusive 3D client to download it!*
     
  31. ress me plz

    ress me plz Guest

    you need a link to download iris2?
     
  32. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    The only problem I see with a fully-3D UO is house customization and decoration. Want to center that item on that table? The game's not tile-based anymore, so good luck aligning things in an infinite gradient.

    The developers would probably spend as much time designing and coding a system to put objects where you want them as they would working on the entire rest of the game. There's a reason you can't put items on the ground in most games.
     
  33. Babble

    Babble Guest

    And still you could put things on the ground in uo and asherons call :p
     
  34. Meat Elemental

    Meat Elemental Journeyman
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    Nope! Just the link to this 3D ultima client he was saying is a failure because uo doesn't have a 3d client...If he's talking about the ec well funny enough it uses 2d graphics..
     
  35. ress me plz

    ress me plz Guest

    ahah ok i've not understand :D

    btw, i agree with you
     
  36. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    Replace "3d" with anything that wasnt the original 2d client and you should be able to connect the dots.
     
  37. Meat Elemental

    Meat Elemental Journeyman
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    This is exactly why UO will never evolve into something people will look at and say I want to play that game...
     
  38. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    No. 2 clients is bad enough. Why? Because most of us use only one client and we have mythic working on both clients. Thats time be used on a client that some just don't use on both sides. With one client that will free up a lot of time for work that can be put towards something better. A third client would just be a bad idea because that would be something else they would have to maintain.
     
  39. Meat Elemental

    Meat Elemental Journeyman
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    Well now we have 2 clients: One that is too old to upgrade and another that they don't update...put a picture of either of these clients on a box and put it in a store and see the sales fly.
     
  40. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Count me in this bunch!...... NO way I want my client to look crappy and polygonal like that..... UGH!
     
  41. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    I don't think it would have to look the same. As a matter of fact, I could target maybe 5 years for them to come up with something that looks good enough but that's the point. They might have a real world of UO in 5 years that could not be matched, where the game we're playing will only have the down view.

    I mean, we're talking about a real world environment, not really the textures or detail but the ability to look up at the sky or tunnel down into the ground.

    When you look at the way UO is now and the way that IRIS thing looks now, it's just big squares with textures pasted on them. Resolution is defined, I believe, by how many squares are on a grid. So, if you look at the texture as a graphic, it has a resolution but i'm not sure of the resolution of the square itself. Like, when a character moves from the center of one square to the center of the next square, or when you drop an item.

    You would think that also would have some type of grid so that if you were going to roll an object for example, it would be like a movie with more frames and you would have more options of where to place an object or an affect.

    What I don't understand though, is why it's not easier for players to create whole shards. For example: If you look at Battle Field, you can create a whole map, drop objects, create spawns, adjust game play options and within a week, be working on details, such as, small gaps with terrain.

    With UO, it seems to be much more complicated, where you needs teams of people working on all different parts. I just don't think it's as mod friendly as it should be.
     
  42. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Obviously. Better to have one client as I was saying so they only have to focus on one. That way they don't have to try and balance work on both clients which isn't working out very well. Particularly for the new one.
     
  43. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    I want this back!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The sad thing is they had it and they dropped it!

    With todays stability and this graphics UO will have a nice future, but this mixture ala Third Dawn both sides are not saticsfied.
     
  44. It doesn't look crappy, it looks great.

    But...
    I don't plays UO for its looks. I'd be very surprised if anyone did in either client.

    Upgrading the looks doesn't change the gameplay.

    Supporting 3 clients would kill UO it already runs on a skeleton crew (at least 1/5th of a normal development team), you want less updates, content and fixes for the sake of looks.

    People always ask every expansion why wasn't this added, why wasn't that finished, because they don't have enough people working on it and they have to meet deadlines thats why.
     
  45. GreekHero

    GreekHero Guest

    Nailed it!
     
  46. Meat Elemental

    Meat Elemental Journeyman
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    Agreed also: I play on ec and I use it for the interface and mods. Love the gameplay just wish it looked more with the times...
     
  47. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Create a Classic Shard, freeze production on the 2D client, make it free to play, make KR the new 2D. Take KR and IRIS, turn it into a hybrid, new concepts and move forward.

    If only it was that easy.
     
  48. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    KR can't be the new 2D. There was a lot of good stuff in it, but still far too much very bad quality content.
    I drop my gloves on the ground. Oh! Where is my castle? Ah, it was under the gloves. KTHXBYE.
     
  49. Novak(Caci)

    Novak(Caci) Guest

    Why dont EA make it like the game spellforce 2?
    The game uses an isoethric client like uo and a 3d full client like wow.
    If you push in the game a special key in that game you can switch between both clients 2D and 3D real.
     
  50. ress me plz

    ress me plz Guest

    it can be a good idea!