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Devs? We're you aware how bad imbuing would kill the game

Discussion in 'UHall' started by cazador, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Imbuing has destroyed the item market...no such thing as a good crafter anymore that everyone knows because he burns 100 barbed kits a month..imbuing makes the game insane every suit is amazing every item is pretty much the best...what's the point now...I'm thinking devs are having fun before they make it FTP..who ever thought you would have a Mage with 30 sdi 100 lrc 2/6 40 lmc 25 hit point increase 20+ mana regen a -15 Mage wep with 15 dci and 50 lightning....which of course always comes back to AOS...sad times for UO nostalgia....miss you Richard garriot!!
     
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  2. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    erm, imbuers are crafters, last time I looked, the suits they imbue have to be first crafted by a tailor or smith, and imbued suits wear out. There's always someone in general chat looking for an imbuer to help make a suit.
    100 barbed kits a month? that's a lot of kits.
     
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  3. sativa green

    sativa green Journeyman
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    if everyone can achieve the same stats, it just creates a level playing field and fights last longer. not sure how you would imbue a -15 mage weapon, since that's not possible with imbuing but a lot of these new items that drop from the dungeon revamps are much stronger than imbued suits.
     
  4. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    This is a silly thread.

    Imbuing has been in the game almost 3 years now, it helped crafters become relevant again. While I don't personally enjoy the need for spreadsheets to make a suit, I am very happy that I can tailor said suit to my play style instead of relying on artifacts to compete.

    Runics are pretty much only used for Reforging now, btw.
     
  5. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
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    So...you're complaing that a -CRAFTING- skill creates a level playing field and at the same time complain about AOS all over again which before AOS everyone pretty much ran around with the same gear and was also a level playing field? I don't get this thread. Imbuing also makes items brittle meaning they will eventually wear out and...and this is the best part! Requires new gear to be crafted! Yes the poor crafters are desperate and out of work!
     
  6. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Wait until he reads up about re-forging ;-)
     
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  7. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    LOL, is all I can say.
     
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  8. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    I must have missed it.

    Did they turn off UO while I wasn't looking?

    </sarcasm>
     
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  9. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Well, I think it was the form that imbuing was introduced, not the skill overall. It did really hurt pvm, a lot. But like people are saying it did help create a more level playing field, and made it much easier to equip.

    However, if they had made an effort to leave a bunch of stuff to pvming other than relegating it to essences, and a few select artifacts and eventually the absurd 10 property items we see now, it could have provided the benefits to crafters and to overall ease of equipping, while leaving pvm still worthwhile.

    I think someone once mentioned that during testing people even said this would be an issue, but were ignored.

    But cats out of the bag of course so, its kind of pointless to worry about it now. They wont do any big overhauls ever again i'm guessing.
     
  10. Eaerendil

    Eaerendil Professional Mall Santa and Legendary Piglet
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    IMBUING RULEZ! One of the best inventions ever!
     
  11. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    I think I, too, like most replying in this thread, am going to put my vote in the "WTF" bucket.

    "Oh no! Now everyone is using Imbuing, a crafting skill! Thus, crafting is dead, obviously!" lolwut?
     
  12. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I'm not even really going to reply as for the simple fact...check the subscription records for this game per the last 3-5 years..you're all right imbuing is EXACTLY what UO needed! Lol
     
  13. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    Imbuing gives people the ability to get a higher ended suit with spending millions.
    I'm working imbuing on a character now actually.

    As far as "destroying the item market"... I think that people who can afford to buy, still will.
    I see people engaging in all kinds of commerce in chat on Catskills.. imbuers are always being sought after.
     
  14. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I have a 120 imbuer..I'm just saying it was much more fun and difficult searching for the perfect piece for your suit..rather then sittin at a soul forge and making it in 5 minutes
     
  15. sativa green

    sativa green Journeyman
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    spending hours crafting is boring to some. some of us want to actually play the game through pvp and pvm, not battling crafting's RNG
     
  16. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    And that's your argument against imbuing? Now I'm not even sure where one would check "subscription records" but even so, that's not a very good argument, lol.
     
  17. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    no it wasn't as literal as children take things....it's more of a..so yea add more useless **** to a game needing way more help then a care bear system like imbuing "to level" the playing field for ****ty players...
     
  18. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Friends I have who are crafters are making tons of gold from reforging and imbuing.
     
  19. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I'm not saying its not profitable I sell suits all the time...I'm just saying its taken a lot out of a game..it's super easy to make suits and gold now.i just don't understand why other than to try and milk what community they still have left they insist on making expansions which I consider as well as many others to be an easy button skill..hence the reason everyday u see less and less of the same old faces and not many new ones
     
  20. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    I find this argument against imbuing a total fail. No one stops you from skipping your imbuer and spending hours killing monsters for hours on end looking for that perfect piece if that is what you enjoy. IMO in a post AOS UO imbuing was exactly what was needed to bring crafter up to speed. Let's be honest, most of us don't have hours and hours a day to play UO and look to crafters to make suits so that we can enjoy other aspects of UO. Imbuing simply leveled they playing field for obtaining a decent suit. With the new loot generator and reforging, imbuing is far from the ultimate in suit building, but is enough to suit up and play effectively. (the effective equivallent to GM armor pre AOS). I have a 120 imbuer as well, yet I still spend time burning a few runics here and there or hunting in shame looking for some super armor pieces, but I can also enjoy other aspects of UO, PvP, champ spawns, doom, peerless, etc.

    I could go on and on, but at it's most basic imbuing is exactly what the casual players needed to be able to suit up and enjoy the aspects of UO that they enjoy.
     
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  21. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Calling an imbuer a 'crafter' is like calling someone who makes Kraft Mac & Cheese a chef.

    Look on back of box. Put ingredients together. Get same item everytime. No skill, no effort, no uncertainty. At least in the past crafters had to do bods and put in effort to get the ingredients and then sort/match items to make 70's suits and the like. Now you put your requirements in - we look up our handy chart of ingredients and create the exact piece you need.
     
  22. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    I would argue they aren't making anything from imbuing - but they are making money from the ingredients. The value of items is essentially the value of the ingredients - no more no less since anyone can make it with the same ingredients on hand.

    In the past a LRC 20, LMC 8, Mana 8 barbed gorget with 10/20/8/10/24 resist was a very valuable piece - more than the value of the barb kit that made it. Now it has the value of 5 relic fragments and some fairy dust.

    With imbuing you are essentially selling the ingredients.
     
  23. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Decay rate way to slow. I have YET to wear out a single item I have crafted since imbuing came out 3 years ago.
     
  24. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Imbuing was good for the game.

    You still have to PvE to obtain the ingredients to imbue.

    You still have to have a crafter to create the items you want to imbue.

    You still have to use an imbuer, which is a crafter by skill, to imbue the items with mods.

    You still loot from corpses can be unraveled for ingredients.

    You still use a crafter with runics to create items to unravel for imbuing ingredients.

    You still use a crafter to get bods to get POF to make higher durabilty on imbued items.

    Finally, all good things do come to an end because these imbued items do lose durabilty till they go poof eventually.

    So just rinse and repeat.
     
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  25. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    In truth, it is this situation that has killed crafting more than any other singular game change. Most of us have our own crafters, so of course we're not buying other peoples' wears even if we needed them.

    And while I have yet to wear out anything I crafted three years ago, I also don't play often enough that I would expect that to be the case.
     
  26. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    The reason why is posters here on stratics was arguing that the decay rate was way to fast. Instead of Mythic finding a happy medium they made it to slow. They just need to adjust the rate of decay a tad bit faster.
     
  27. Driven Insane

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    Most of the people doing that were cheaters who were scripting bods and scripting the filling of bods, etc.

    Imbuing has done alot to close the gap between the haves and the have nots.
     
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  28. O'Brien

    O'Brien Thought Police

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    Agree. I'm a returning player from just before imbuing was introduced. Imbuing and reforging, while not perfect, are an improvement. Before it was just about playing the RNG lottery for barbed kits and burning them, which is a game scripters play best.

    Now we all can have the suits with the specs we want for much cheaper. I think the only ones who would complain about that are those who don't want a level playing field and aim to be the biggest frog in the puddle.

    [edit]
    And its the first time I've ever been interested in making a tailer/imbuer.
     
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  29. Aerodice

    Aerodice Adventurer
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    Imbuing is not without its flaws, but overall I believe that it has a much more positive impact than a negative one. Here's my opinion of some of the positive points of imbuing:

    - Gave use to otherwise useless items. There is now actually reason to loot items, to unravel for residue, essence or relics. It helped clean out many houses.
    - Allowed people to build suits to their needs and plan out their suit better, especially to work around artifact weaknesses and strengths.
    - It pairs well with the existing crafting system. I use tailoring to craft a lot of "blank" armors with a certain resist that is on the high side. That way I can concentrate more imbuing energy on another property. Also, I have looted many elemental based weapons to enhance with metal to get 100% elemental type weapons, which are then imbued. It did not kill the crafting market, it created a hybrid of crafting skills.
    - Reforging still makes use of runic tools. Also, I've used way more runic tools with the introduction of imbuing, trying to crack out some weapons with 100% damage in a certain element (which you cannot imbue).
    - Allowed you to make some items a lot more useful. Perfect example: UOML craftable artifacts. Many of these can be imbued into combinations that are a lot more favorable. Also, dark sapphire bracelets and turquoise rings have been in the limelight with the introduction of imbuing and the ability to choose you properties, with luck still playing a heavy factor in the outcome.
    - Brought life into some systems such as treasure chest loot and mining gems. Also made use of the lesser gems such as amber and tourmaline, a great idea imo.
     
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  30. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    As with almost all things UO it was a great idea but it was a failed implementation. Imbuing should have been limited to 3-4 properties instead of 5. It would still have allowed for nearly unlimited suit building potential while still making PvM meaningful. Myself and others attempted to explain this during beta but nobody was listening. I feel it did more harm than good but as I read through this thread it would seem I am in the minority. Not the first time I suppose...
     
  31. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I do agree with a level playing field...but your justifying it by that..is wrong you think imbuing even slowed scripting one bit you're completely wrong now the script farm essences with a amazing samp suit they built in less than 10 minutes..tbh I love imbuing in certain areas but with reforging with spined kits and fortifying and then enhancing these suits and weapons are SICK..at least make it so u can't imbue an item with powder of fort on it..and normal decay as before and every repair drops a point
     
  32. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    The only people who were burning through "100 barbed kits a month" in the old days were people whose supply involved some form of scripting. I guess he misses those days...

    Imbuing and now reforging have been some of the best crafting design decisions made in the history of UO. Crafting is more fun now than it has ever been, and even now, there is no such thing as a "perfect" suit - you always have to make some kind of compromise. And that's what keeps building character templates and suits fun.

    Personally all my crafters are far busier now than they ever were before imbuing, you know actually crafting stuff for the sake of crafting stuff, as opposed to mindlessly filling bods or grinding Heartwood quests, and then playing the high end runic lottery. Reforging is still a game of chance, but it's a lot more like poker than a lottery now - your chances of "winning" are much better, and it actually does take some strategy and intelligence to play the game.

    Building a high end suit these days has become much more of an art, and much less of an exercise in power gaming and illegal game play choices. And in the finest "sandbox" tradition suit building has become a very open ended process. There is a minimum amount of investment required, in terms of time and resources, to build a high end suit, but after that, how much time and effort you want to put into it is entirely up to you. You can put together a competitive pvp suit for under 50 mil, or you can literally pour in the kind of effort and resources that would amount to billions, if that is your particular bent.
     
  33. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    I'm glad that you stand behind your original statement but i disagree. It's nice to be able to create those mods you were looking for but could never find because loot still sucks. I love imbuing and i'm glad its here.
     
  34. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I have yet to wear out anything I've crafted for myself beyond a couple of bows..... but that's because of hard constant use. Now... I'll say this the death of crafting has come from many factors the least of which is that everyone now has 7 char slots... so those who never thought they had "room" for a crafter pretty much all have a basic crafter..... not everyone has worked up Imbuing and therefore imbuing still is a useful skill

    As for the regular stuff once I've built my suit.... I really don't need anything. I have over 50+ character but I've only Imbued suits for maybe 5. The others I don't really play enough to justify building them a suit and gathering all the junk to do it. Besides I'm with Martyna I don't like having to use a speadsheet to create my suit. Too much thinking.

    But I've used my crafters a ton more lately since imbuing than I ever did before it came to be.
     
  35. Phangs_of_Phage

    Phangs_of_Phage Journeyman

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    So your saying I'm not a chef!?!?!!?

    Honestly the imbuing itself is easy. The hard part is crafting dozens of each pieces to find the perfect mix so you have to waste minimal mods on resist based around the armor you want.
    I would be willing to bet you could make alot of money selling premade non imbued pieces built around certain arties so imbuers didnt have to waste hours buring 89 gloves and other stuff so they only had to use 2 resist mods instead of 3 or 4.
     
  36. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    In the "good old days" of crafting there was no skill whatsoever to building a suit. It was all luck. You had to mix and match yes, but pulling together the pieces was a matter of searching vendors and piles of crafted armour, until you go something that was close to what you wanted. It takes far more real planning and "skill" to put together a high end suit today than it did in the old days. There is still luck involved, but it isn't the only determining factor, the way it used to be, and you can be as formulaic, or as creative as you want to be these days. I love pulling together killer suits with pieces others wouldn't touch if you payed them too.
     
  37. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Well, I guess I enjoyed the good old days where I'd be lucky enough to make a good piece from a barb kit and then spend the time sorting through items to switch up the suit to make it 'fit' and there was ALWAYS room to improve a suit. Now you just craft your max mod suit and never consider that you might find/make anything better. The only time you mess with your suit is if they release a new artifact you need to work in or they take faction arties away etc.

    I guess this is what I am currently enjoying about Diablo III. There is always the push to improve your gear and each random drop I need to evaluate if this item makes my suit better or worse. Keep or sell.

    In UO you unravel ALL loot essentially and craft your max mod piece and the maxes are known. I find that pretty boring. I guess if you dont' like armor/suit building which I would consider the 'art' of crafting in UO - then the current system is for you. Craft. Imbue to max mod. Wear. It is that simple.
     
  38. Arien

    Arien Journeyman
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    Imbuing was the best thing that Crafters could get. I like to create Armors like i want them and not like it was before where you had to burn endless Barbed Runics to get only 1 Piece. The only thing that confuse me completly is Reforging. My brain can't handle all Infos about it. :eek: So i guess i have to learn a lot about Reforging in the next weeks.
     
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  39. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    I couldn't have said it better.
     
  40. Lightfoot

    Lightfoot Adventurer
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    Then search for the perfect piece for your suit!
    Here's a hot flash; you don't have to imbue if you don't want.
    And anyone who goes through 100 barbed kits a month is duping the kits.
     
  41. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Devs? We're you aware how bad imbuing would kill the game

    Did I miss something somewhere? I could have sworn I just logged off of UO 2 min ago. If imbuing killed UO then why in the world is Stratics still carrying UOStratics? I must be taking some nice drugs that I still get to play UO.

    Selling DRUGS that lets you play a dead game 100M gold. Oh wait I cant do that because there is nobody in UO but me. UMMMM how to sell this DRUG so others can pay with ingame gold. UMMMMM

    OH well, FREE DRUGS, just PM me and I will figure out how to get them to you so I can have others in UO with me.
     
  42. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I felt semi high reading that...ty
     
  43. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    100 kits was more of an inflation of the actual number for I cannot be specific or even in a general sense to predict or guess on average what a grinding crafter burned in kits per month..but anyways...I never said I enjoyed searching thru millions of vendors for that specific piece..that's where **** became an amazing tool what I am saying is that it's an easy button for people who can't afford good pieces or who are just too lazy to find the "right" gear..it promotes a quicker gameplay which would be good if pvp wasn't at such a boring pace of 30m gets you a good suit for fight for an hour log on next week rinse and repeat and no by no means do I think finding armor made u pvp more..it was just more of a satisfying aspect rather then oh I want This this and this..ok done
     
  44. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
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    I am not sure how you got so many kits but for the vast majority of players imbuing opened up worlds to them that had never been there before. I for one think its a great thing and combine imbuing with reforging and things are even better. Now instead of gambling for pieces you need to think first then craft. There is still more then enough grind in making the perfect piece especially if you add in reforging. That being said while I am sure your newly back imbuing is now years old. It didn't kill anything if anything it helped keeping things going.
     
  45. Shakkar

    Shakkar Guest

    I like imbuing, You must make a deecent suit first and have it imbued. I put the most mods on a suit as I can. with no artys worked into suit i can get a 27 mod suit every time. and no barbs or other kits are harmed(used) in the making of my suits. I dont use um. I dont see any problem with imbuing, make a artificer and see for yourself.
     
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  46. Eaerendil

    Eaerendil Professional Mall Santa and Legendary Piglet
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    Perfect example for a classical misunderstanding: There is (1) a difference between correlation and causality. And (2) trends as described above cannot be explained monocausally. In other words: To believe that there is a causality betwenn the invention of imbuing and the decrease of suscription is neither convincing nor plausible. Sometimes I would wish that people on this forum would argue a bit less emotionally...
     
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  47. O'Brien

    O'Brien Thought Police

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    Now that's crazy talk :coco:
     
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  48. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion..except on UOStratics forum you're opinion is only valid if agreed upon then it becomes how you're an idiot or a noob...


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  49. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

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    No one is immune from criticism, including me. Folk are not slow to tell me when I've got my facts wrong, believe me. Some people in this thread have agreed with you, some haven't. But you lose credibility when you throw in exagerations like '100 barbed kits per month'. Not obtainable in those kind of numbers unless they're scripted as far as I know? Not to mention instructing us to check subscription numbers - which are never published, and discounting any possibility that there could be any other cause to the perceived decline in subscriptions.
    If you expect to have credibility, don't feed us on fertilizer.
     
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  50. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    And I've gone through a set of weapons on my sampire. I would say either you don't do enough or you are playing something where you don't get hit that often.

    Besides, previously- before imbuing, once you found the perfect piece or crafted it using a runic, you NEVER needed to replace it, thanks to POF.