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Devs what are you doing to curb the rampant cheating in this game?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Prince Caspian, Jan 7, 2009.

  1. Everyone in Sonoma gets an apple cobbler from my GM chef if a dev actually posts a meaningful reply here.
     
  2. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    well, as history on this board has shown. Lets say a 1mil gold check for everyone on sonoma if they post an answer that will actually please you.
     
  3. Oh and if this gets moved to SnR, I will take a dump on Lord British's throne at approximately 10pm EST tonight.
     
  4. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    nothing
     
  5. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    To answer your question--

    Nothing
     
  6. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    *just has to post*
    Is that a fancy name for a toilet? hehe
     
  7. Nope, if this thread follows the typical formula of being moved to SnR safely away from the eyes of devs because it says something negative.... I will make a public pit stop at LB's throne room tonight on Sonoma Shard Trammel side at 10pm sharp.

    And I'll bring the TOS as teepee.
     
  8. Kahlan_FHP

    Kahlan_FHP Seasoned Veteran
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    This thread is like the black plague to devs.
     
  9. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - good ?

    Hopefully some things that they can share with us rather than some things shrouded in mystery that are rarely noticed by most players :)

    I'd really love to see more burning effigies, heh.
     
  10. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    It's not that it's the black plague, it's that we can't share details of the steps we're taking.

    Nor can we ever confirm or deny individual actioned cases. So if someone tries to follow up and ask "Did you ban [X] yet?" we can't say.

    All these things are extremely frustrating, and it cuts both ways. We're well aware of ongoing problems with speedhacking and client manipulation. We have plans in place to deal with them from a developer viewpoint, while supporting customer service as much as possible in the here and now to get individual cases taken care of.

    Duping has been a major focus of our efforts as well so far, and before someone asks, yes, we're planning to put out the flames and start releasing the burned housing plots.
     
  11. This is the standard answer we always get. While "we are working on it but we just cant share the details" is encouraging, I see two things in Sonoma night after night:

    1.) Rampant, brazen cheating (in the form of scripting, speedhacking, duping)
    2.) NOTHING being done to stop them.
     
  12. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Hey Prince Caspian, I'm just glad the Devs. gave a response, as it seems to me like its been quite awhile since they've given us that much ecouragement.
    Yet, it is kind of disappointing that I've been hearing for a few years how they are working on things & the results have been a few sporadic bannings rather than the constant attention that this 'plague' of UO requires.
    Still, I am happy to hear of things being addressed from a developer viewpoint (as well as from the CS / GM side of things), and I truly hope that means giving the GM's better tools as well as adjusting the game code.
     
  13. Think about it like this. If you are being investigated by the fbi do they let everyone know what they are doing? No that would be stupid. Most of the cheaters probably think either they won't get caught, or that they will just open another account. People should really not worry about it. It is fine to bring up problems as the devs may not know about it. They will work on it if it is a problem, but they have alot to do, and don't need to justify their actions to players. If you think about it almost everything asked for is done in time.
     
  14. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    What do you think Prince Caspian, should we all be rushing to make characters on Sonoma?

    (it may not have fully satisfied the desire to see justice in action now, but it was meaningful, wouldn't you say?)
     
  15. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    This policy however (and I'm sure this is what Draconi meant by "cuts both ways") completely and totally leaves it open to interpretation that they are, in fact, doing nothing. They won't confirm or mention that they are doing anything specific, or banning people, or say what steps they're working on.

    So unfortunately that's a "trust me."

    Unfortunately virtually all of the evidence we can actually observe in game, is that reports and such go completely ignored and undealt with, or at the very least, what few people look through the reports are so undermanned and overwhelmed that if the player in question doesn't happen to be doing something illegal at that moment, they just have to delete the report and move to the next one.

    I'd like to think the devs care and are actively doing things. I just see no reason to believe so when people feel free to UM right in Luna for 7 days straight, or speedhack nightly, and multiple people claim to have reported it and nothing happens.
     
  16. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    Ah, sorry, no, I meant the frustration cuts both ways. We're doing something.
     
  17. Cailleach

    Cailleach Certifiable
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    Thank you for taking the time to reply - even that little info is something better than nothing. Not much, mind, but something.

    Customer service - can you do anything about this, or the lack thereof? Can you do anything about 'The Amazing Invisible GM's'? Hell, even rewriting their canned responses and removing the spelling and grammar mistakes would be a good start! If you can't do anything about it, is it at all possible that you could give us the name of the person who is responsible for what passes for EA customer support? Cos, and I'm going to be brutally honest here, they should be taken out and shot as an affront to the title 'Customer Support'. It's wonderful that Devs come here and post, it's an aspect of the game that I love - Devs are accessable to the public. The customer support bods wouldn't, I suspect, last more than around 2.5 seconds, even with double flame retardant suits. Because they are (and I'm being frank again) crap. They've never learned the basic rules of customer service, never mind forgotten them. And I don't think I'm alone when I say that I really really resent them getting a single penny of the money I spend to play UO.
     
  18. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I really appreciate the post Draconi, what can I say? I was a gnat's whisker from shutting down accounts over cheating :( Guess I'll have to hang around to see the pyrotechnics now :D

    I'd never expect to know exactly what you guys were doing, hey, the house burnings were a fantastic surprise to log in to! Just sometimes you need to pop up and say a little something so we don't give up hope. Even just a figure of "we nuked x cheats" at the bottom of a Five on Friday would be fantastic. It's that whole not hearing anything at all that makes players feel left in the dark. Cheats will come to replace ex cheats, but a few other games I play will just give a monthly total sometimes. You feel a GM call is doing something when you see those figures. Or you stand in certain spots and see a stack of bot players vanish from the screen. I'd love to see that in UO!

    Wenchy
     
  19. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    cant u post on uohearld, so many banned for scripting/speed hacking every week, then some would see that it isnt worth effort to do!!!!!!!!!!!!

     
  20. Duskofdead

    Duskofdead Sage
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    Can we have some or any sort of ... I guess explanation as to why clearly TOS violating behaviors (such as being unattended and macroing in Luna for a week) can be widely reported and nothing happens? I mean, we're not asking you to confirm punishment of specific individuals but... the ONLY thing people ever report on the forums, ever, is that they've reported, reported, reported, and the same offenders are doing the same thing, day in and day out.
     
  21. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest

    just wondering , are you going to ensure proper steps to make sure someone is: not cheating,duping intentionaly ( 1 time thing),AFK,etc..
    if no, then innocent people might get 'cought up'. we all know how ban happy the GM's get sometimes. :(
     
  22. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    Really, that would help alot.

    Most people are so convinced that the Devs are doing nothing to stop cheaters that they continue to cheat with ZERO fear of ever being caught, thus leading to even more cheating.

    The simple act of making people aware that cheating will not be tolerated and making an example of certain people would go a long way.

    For example if you banned some of the worst speedhackers on every shard, word would get around and people would be way less inclined to risk their accounts by running a non approved 3rd party program.
     
  23. Kahlan_FHP

    Kahlan_FHP Seasoned Veteran
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    Draconi, thank you very much for the response. As many people have reflected, it's reassuring to see the devs responding to our posts. If you guys were ever able to eliminate speed hackers, you'd once again have the game of the century. I know you are not stupid or ignorant of the problem. That leaves me to believe (and im sure many others are on this same boat) that the reason you guys havent mass banned the third party program users is the loss of cash flow this would cause.
    I guess it all boils down to integrity. Do you risk it and wipe out the cheaters, thus bringing forth a stop in the cash flow, but then realizing that many many people will probably come back knowing that the cheaters are gone and they can play in a fair world?
    Granted, Im not the man counting the greens, but I say go for it. Release punkbuster or whatever you have that will wipe the disease from our beloved game.
     
  24. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Thanks Draconi. I understand you can't give the details.

    You don't want cheaters to know what is happening otherwise it would be like a "heads up" to them, letting them know would be like telling them to run and look out when instead we want to catch them and ban them :D
     
  25. HD2300

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    Sadly EA caved in and nixed Punkbuster, because of a very vocal minority who wanted to maintain control of their precious resources. You can thank this group of PvPers and scriptors for the loss of 50,000+ subscriptions in the last 2 years.
     
  26. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    I am highly offended by that remark. I pvp and in no way do I support cheating. If theres anyone to blame it would be the gold/item sellers.
     
  27. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
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    Ah, I'll address this directly then. I've seen this come up one too many times I'm afraid.

    No, it's not true. These kinds of exploiters make up such a tiny minority that their complete disappearance from the game would have only positive consequences for the game.

    We've seen what happens to our subscriptions when as we take firm action - good things. Our challenge is working towards the effective, global solutions that level the playing field for all, and its not something that can happen overnight.

    But, just to reiterate, if a cheater thinks they can justify their actions by giving us a little money, they're dead wrong. For every cheater there are more honest players who can't/won't compete with them, and the honest players' loss is everyone's loss.
     
  28. GL_Seller

    GL_Seller Guest

    I'm really glad some of you are excited about this response. It however means nothing and will most likely result it nothing being done. How long did they know about the dupe before doing anything and in the end banned people for buying duped runics which look just like the real thing.

    BTW LOOK ON BOATS. Its amazing theres a vendor on gl selling tons of all kinds of tokens plus verites plus heartwood runics. I cant buy because they are most likely dupes as he was only selling the tokens forever and i know someone who bought 20 of them from him...He then immediately replinished his vendor with 7-8 more.

    As for you cant tell bull**** dont feed me this crap. Put a god damn box infront of ppl as they run if they run over it instant ban. Thats the easiest way to tell flat out. Theres so many problems with factions and cheating its ****ing disgusting. Yet you cant tell if they are cheating.

    I could care less about dupes they brought what was once a 45mill item down to 20-25. They can make armor weapons etc out of that. Anyone can be beat its the people who can get away at lightning speed, run over objects, and can place a field with precise accuracy because the rest of the fields are in tile form, that are destroying this game.

    With the devs 0 tolerance on cheating that was announced a while back cheating has just gotten more blatant and ever increasing. Yet telling someone to go to stratics.com gets u banned.

    So give yourself a pat on the back for coming to stratics and saying we may/may not be doing **** about cheating. You will have to wait. I have been waiting for years. So next time just keep the bull**** post to yourself. As your track record shows ill die before you do anything thats not fixing a ****ing brazier.
     
  29. Kahlan_FHP

    Kahlan_FHP Seasoned Veteran
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    Draconi, I am again humbled by your timely response. Above I have bolded areas of concern from my viewpoint (lets all understand I know NOTHING about programming and I dont pretend to). I will start from the top.
    1.) This leads me to believe that we have way more trammel players. The only reason I say this is because, concerning the speed hack, it seems like a huge majority of people use it. I may be ignorant on the mechanics of it all, but I can tell the difference between someone outrunning me and someone blipping away from me or flying past me while they are pursuing. Or those little creepy men who can run on foot about half or 2/3 the speed of me on my horse.
    2.)Why dont you capitalize on this statement? If it really is true, why are the GM's not more proactive in taking care of the people who are legitametly(sp) paged on?
    3.) The last evident consequence for cheaters, to my knowledge, was the "Great Burning" that happened across all shards. As many people stated, why not post on uo.com "Eliminated X amount of accounts for illegal activities"? I understand it cant happen overnight, but surely it can happen in 6 months to a year? (That statement might make you laugh, but as I said I have no clue about programming.)

    Call me impatient, but it just seems like the focus is more on content than fixing what is already there. Ask any contractor what happens when you ignore the foundation and keep adding to the structure....only a matter of time until it gives way and then you have a big pile of junk.
     
  30. Exgirlfriend

    Exgirlfriend Journeyman
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    I've been a PVPer for about ten years now, And even tho im happy your talking about this i've heard it countless times before....sorry

    Some of the biggest problems with UO are

    Massive guilds you either have to join or stand no chance to advance your templete. (i say limit the size to increase competition)

    Herding all the pvp to a fraction of the game board. (maybe a revised O/C system)

    Stat Loss (thats 20 min's to do something else, like play DDO)

    Voice Chat (put it on the next cd for free)

    Cheat programs (medic scripts and one's to advance skill)

    Ghost cams (maybe the town cryer should spam a harry's up)

    Grossley overpowered weapons and special moves combined

    Lack of visable gm's


    thanks and i hope this helps.

    Ex
     
  31. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    See here is where I see some of the problem is. GM's have a full plate as it is its hard for them to keep up with every unattended macroer that gets paged on. im sure they may get 1000's of pages a day. its like police not being able to get to the scene of every crime while its happening. theres more crime than police same as i feel we have with our GM's.

    Now on this other shard I play they are very strict about cheating but there is a twist. To free up GM que they allow unattended macroing of skill only. Any unattended resource gathering, gold farming, Speed hacking, Use of %$@#UO, will get your account banned on sight. They have systems for Idoc where you cant place a house unless everything is cleared out and GMs will check people who are AFK(fel rules a player will kill him first in most cases) to prevent scripted placement. If you sell gold for profit they will ban you they will do their little stings to find and weed out gold sellers. These GM's dont make $ its completely volentary.

    Maby EA should allow unattended macroing of skill so they the GM's can focus on scripted gatherers/goldfarmers/ speedhackers, at one time on OSI it was legal to macro unattended but due to bandwidth reasons they had to ban it with todays tech its no longer an issue.
     
  32. Cryltaur

    Cryltaur Guest

    Hey, if you have to give a 1mil check to everyone on Sonoma, that's only about 21 of those, right? :D
     
  33. HD2300

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    I didnt mean to offend. I never said all pvpers. There were some PvPers for Punkbuster, but everyone for it was drowned out by a very vocal group of PvPers and scriptors against Punkbuster.
     
  34. Fox (Europa)

    Fox (Europa) Guest

    Draconi - I'm sure you already appreciate this but if there was one thing to focus on it would be speed-hacking in the 2D client.

    All the other imbalances and various moans and groans such as greater dragons just need the usual semi-annual tweak pass but speed-hacking and the lack of a fix has decimated the PvP numbers in the last year.

    Fox
     
  35. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    lol, probably right :p
     
  36. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Hey, C! Did Draconi's posts meet your criteria? If yes, when and where are you passing out the cobbler? I made space on the kitchen table for one of 'em.
     

  37. we will take 5, one per house.
     
  38. Exgirlfriend

    Exgirlfriend Journeyman
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    Maybe you dont understand what we/I go thru daily verse these types that cheat in PVP.

    I play a Nox-Mage for the challange :) So...the worst ones are the ones that COMBINE UBER WEAPONS, SPEED HACK, MEDIC SCRIPTS AND SPAMMED SPECIAL MOVES....and whats worse is if your actully beating them they call in XX people from there guild using voice chat that run/use the exact same stuff.

    it's COMMON in todays UO


    I luv the game, but you really need to address these issues.


    ..
     
  39. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I'll take 4 ;)
     
  40. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    And me, although I waffle back and forth. I strongly disbelieve Punkbuster would be an panacea you think it is, at best it would be a temporary solution - nothing client-side can be trusted.
     
  41. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    what i was thinking
     
  42. SoulWeaver

    SoulWeaver King of The Bearded Ladies
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    Everyone Move To Siege Perilous And You Wont Have To Worry About These Dupers, and Economy Ruiners!
     

  43. I guess in the end, it kinda did.

    Ok, come to the Luna bank at 10pm EST folks for your free cobbler.
     
  44. Shioni

    Shioni Guest

    I still laughing when I see those burning houses. :D

    But If I could offer any advice Draconi, you really need to start scaring the hell out of people who use minor exploits, or third party programs.


    How about a log in text box that says. "We are monitoring for illegal 3rd party programs, If detected you will be banned."
     
  45. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    How about really scaring them...

    "Greetings!

    This week we've banned:
    xx resource bots
    xx dupers
    xx speed hackers
    xx assorted cheating scum

    The GMs are coming to see if you're being naughty or nice, but why wait till Christmas?

    If you're thinking about cheating today, we'll be happy to add your account to our totals. But remember, prison food is terrible and Draconi has personally instructed each jailor in the appropriate use of a flamethrower...Oh, and did I mention that your house will be burnt to the ground and your posessions will be siezed?

    Have a nice day, and remember to be good!"

    Wenchy
     
  46. Tonight? Better yet you can drop my 5 at the NJ bank in Fel at 8pm CDT
     
  47. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    party on Sonoma! :)
     
  48. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Drat, life got in the way. thanks for the screenshot :)
     
  49. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Yup, I vote that it's a meaningful reply!

    Let me go get my 30 characters on Sonoma for those 1 mil checks... I play Sonoma, honest! At least once a year anyways :D