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DEVS: Why is the FACTION + NON FACTION could ally each others??

Discussion in 'UHall' started by slayer888, May 24, 2009.

  1. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper
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    DEVS, we will need a reply to why this is still possible after this issue being brought up to discuss months ago??

    http://my.uo.com/cgi-bin/guilds.pl?g=d933aa07bb191fed:26

    These 2 guilds in Formosa is allied with each others yet 1 of them is NOT in faction whilst the other is in Minax faction.

    Come on DEVS. Please let us know when will this be solved as soon as possible.

    This brings a super disadvantages as they could benefit from not getting fielded with own team YET can fight alongside and not deserved for STAT loss after DEATH??

    Another worse part is they could res and heal each others up!

    Come on. FIX IT AS SOON as possible. Please give us a reply whether this is LEGAL or not?

    If not, please kindly announce it as a bannable offense as this is used by BUGS/EXPLOITS to achieve this status.

    Thanks!
     
  2. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I have to point out that the particular example you point to is not the best: As the guild is allied to a guild of a grand total of 2 members. Not any kind of advantage.

    However....This is the history of this issue.

    The guild alliance system is created. Due to an oversight, Faction and non-Faction guilds can ally. It doesn't seem to be an advantage, at least not an important one, so the devs ignore it, effectively deem it legal unless later it's proven to be an advantage.

    However, some kind of exploit emerged, and a change was made:

    http://www.uoherald.com/news/news.php?newsid=808

    Draconi, at the time, stated that the specific intent was to allow guilds to join a Faction AFTER joining an alliance. But, it didn't work. Allied guilds could not join a Faction anymore.

    And the devs were mostly silent about it. Was this an oversight? An unannounced policy change? I recall no statements at the time.

    There was still the ability to make an alliance between a Faction and non-Faction guild, using a complicated exploit which was openly discussed on Stratics, but I don't recall it and never tried it.

    However, more recently, they have decided Faction and non-Faction guilds being allied is illegal:

    http://uoherald.com/fof/?fofId=148


    So, technically, this is an exploit that they just haven't fixed yet.

    So one possibility: The alliance you linked to was an old "legacy" alliance, just never broken before the change. Another possibility: They used that exploit.

    Either way......For my part, and I know no one asked, but I kind of liked the idea of Faction and non-Faction guilds being able to ally. I thought it enabled Factions to be embedded into the fabric of life on the shard rather than being an isolated group into and of itself.

    I don't see the big advantage on the field. Factions can be "helped" by non-Factioners (either reds seeking to kill blues or reds, or blues killing reds) whether they are allied or not!

    Someone can explain it to me, perhaps.

    I'm going to guess fields? But if it was that big a deal how come it wasn't a huge source of complaints when Faction/non-Faction alliances were specifically allowed?

    -Galen's player
     
  3. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Personally, I feel such alliances should remain. I and others, have guilds that are run by one leader, but serve different needs within the guild as a whole. One is faction, for those who wish to participate in factions, the other is for PvMer's, crafters and new players who do not. They still do things together in game and I feel it is important to keep them connected for communication purposes and for a sense of comraderie.

    I do, however agree that non-faction players interfering with faction battles is/can be a huge problem. Quite frankly, I'd like to see a different approach to this problem. Any non-faction player that aggresses/flags against a faction player should flag orange to faction players. As such, they should suffer statloss should they subsequently lose such a battle and they should also be subject to a murder count under the current circumstances that would call for such.
     
  4. Lyconis

    Lyconis Sage
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    Sounds like they fixed the part where single guilds can join factions while in an alliance. I believe you can still join a faction then join an alliance then leave the faction.

    I was hoping that "please drop the alliance before we do" would take all the members out of the faction.. Seems like if you so called "exploit" the system you should be punished blah.

    The advantage you have really simple. Blues/Reds none faction suicide run missions low health no worries of dying (cause no stat). These players do not take kill shots. Movement of faction members come in to take kill shots. Non Faction Characters Rez up go back to the "front line". Rinse Repeat. This tactic allows you to take the opposing members out of commission for 20 minutes. While the allied team may be at half the amount of members if they had poor tactical planning.

    An alliance fielding with reds (which is the smart thing to do because you can be raided by reds, blues and oj's) allow your non faction members free flight through your red faction member fields. Which leads to the above tactic of having the blues and reds running passed the fields to weaken the opposing faction then flooding with your faction members at full force.

    I believe another problem is alliance healing overriding faction rules. If Non faction attacks TB a member in SL should not be able to heal the non faction player. I believe the alliance overrides this (not tested mind you but thats what it seems like to me on the field)

    The perk someone opposing an alliance of Faction and non faction member mix is you run a chance of not going into stat if one of the non faction members of the alliance kills you!.
     
  5. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper
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    Lyconis got most of the points and advantages of this part, but I will try to state it more clear and simple to the audience and DEVS on why this would needed to be fixed:-

    1. faction members are not supposed to heal a non faction members after the non faction members attacked someone

    However, now that because they are allied (green to each others), they are allowed to heal and res each others.

    2. They could kill opposing faction members and avoid getting STAT loss when they get killed. Whilst like Lyconis said, they use a dragon to make a person down to say 20% hp, and the faction alliance just go and finish the kill...

    Bam, the opposing faction enemy = stat loss for 20 mins because of this cheap shot.


    3. If you could see, the non faction guild (I linked) are 2 "RED" tamers that could kill anyone on the field. Yet, they could avoid getting STAT loss, avoid getting fielded by their own "faction" guild alliance. Normally, a stealth archer tamer got killed = out for 20 mins. Now that they could just res up "by their illegal BUGGED faction alliance" and continue to fight with their super dragon with no STAT loss at all.

    FAIR? NO!!!

    4. This is clearly a bug or exploit they are using as they just happened to be allied recently (within this week). Since DEVS have mentioned that this is a "BUG" "EXPLOIT", then they shouldn't be using it at all.

    There is no "ok or not"

    As long as DEVs said it is illegal, it is a bug, then NO ONE should ever be using it at all.

    Simple as this.

    SO DEVS, please answer this NOW when will we get to see this FIXED?

    Also DEVS, please "POST CLEARLY" saying that using this exploit or bug will lead to account suspension or ban.

    Thanks.
     
  6. CatLord

    CatLord Guest

  7. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    The question was....What's the advantage of allowing Faction and non-Faction guilds to be in alliances together?

    What you describe could be done with or without the alliance system.

    As to the general issue of non-Factioners fighting Factioners? This is Felucca, people. It's a free-wheeling no-man's land, and lots of people are going to jump into fights for their own reasons.

    Factions should be no different.

    -Galen's player
     
  8. HunterXHunter

    HunterXHunter Visitor

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    Actually you are wrong. The faction player cannot xheal a non-faction player if he's an aggressor to someone UNLESS they exploit the alliance system then they can do it.

    This is Fel, so less carebear mode is required. Faction guild and non faction guilds can ally but they should also hit each other with their fields/summons. THIS IS FEL, put in carebear mode for some SOFTCORE FACTION GUILD the ability to HIDE BEHIND their NONFACTION crowd waiting to get in a cheap, dirty, zero skill shot and stat the opposing faction players who REFUSE to EXPLOIT this EXPLOITED ALLIANCE system and play with pure faction chars as the DEV designed it to be.

    This is FEL, LESS CAREBEAR MODE please. Thank you.
     
  9. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    So....Care bear mode is whatever disadvantages you?

    That's peculiar. I thought you Fellies were rough, tough, and adaptable.

    This statement puzzles me:

    Umm....Really? This has changed.....For a period of time before Faction Artifacts I was Commanding Lord of the TB Faction, and I don't remember having an issue healing anyone not in Factions.....Save, of course, for the long-standing Alliance bug, wherein someone in an alliance will be non-heal-able or non-rez-able about half the time for no obvious reason, but that doesn't specifically impact people inside or outside of Factions, and had nothing to do with being aggressor flagged.

    Of course, on those rare occasions I'm in Felucca these days I'm running by myself about 85% of the time or thereabouts, so I easily could not be up on what the current rules are for having other people help me. Oddly enough, no one ever wants to help me much in Felucca. *chuckles*

    Can someone else (preferably multiple someone elses) confirm this? It's a new one to me. If true it would certainly be something of an advantage.

    This statement also puzzles me:

    because the situation you appear to describe, non-Faction players physically blocking Faction players, can happen regardless of whether they are allied or not.

    What also would happen regardless of alliances was Faction guilds seeking help from non-Faction guilds (usually red guilds, because they are a lot freer with whom they can attack). That used to happen to me all the time, no formal alliance in effect just some ICQs sent out. I don't recall whining, or SHOUTING, about it...Maybe I did and just don't remember though. That's certainly always possible and has happened.

    There's really nothing in your post that doesn't lead me to believe that you want Factioners to somehow be immune from the effects of being in Felucca...I.e., that others will seek unfair advantages over you and your enemies will get help from unexpected sources.

    But that happens to anyone that goes to Felucca, regardless of whether or not they are in Factions.

    You could always try to start a warring community in Trammel, where outside help would be limited to heals. Before AoS, when the removal of stat loss took away one of the last major incentives for not PKing people randomly, warring communities, both RP and non-RP, were fairly common in Trammel. It was kind of neat when you'd walk into the middle of their fights.

    -Galen's player
     
  10. Tasslehoff

    Tasslehoff Guest

    allied guilds like that one in faction the other is not CAN'T HEAL OR RESS FACTION MEMBERS ONLY FACTION CAN HEAL/ress FACTIONS.atleast before you post something know what you are talking about..they fixed that awhile ago nonfaction allys healing faction players
     
  11. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Oh is that what he meant?

    I thought he said the opposite, that he was worried about non-Factioners BEING healed by Factioners.

    Either way.....Currently, Factioners can't be healed in Felucca (in Trammel they can, but Factioners can't fight in Trammel unless they are guild-warred also, so who cares). And as far as I know non-Factioners could ALWAYS be healed by Factioners, barring that annoying "allied guild" bug. And even then that bug isn't constant, so Factioners can still heal non-Factioners MOST of the time.

    -Galen's player
     
  12. Lyconis

    Lyconis Sage
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    Response to faction/non faction healing.
    We've tried to rez a player (non faction) to rez kill them and we could not. I don't know exactly how it works. We've had non faction members come into a champ with us and couldn't rez or heal them because they stepped in a red faction members field.

    Any advantage on the field obtained by an exploit should not be allowed.
    Moving your guild into factions to enter an alliance then that guild leaves the faction after 3 days for an advantage is an exploit.
    Why would anyone defend exploiting the game unless it benefited them?
     
  13. HunterXHunter

    HunterXHunter Visitor

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    If the nonfaction guy is flagged to another faction character he could not be rezzed or xhealed unless of course he exploit the alliance system then he can get heals and rezzes from anyone in his alliance. This says its in fact nothing but exploit being abused.

    I too cant understand why people would support an exploit unless of course people who dont give a jack about balance and/or depend on the advantages gained thru an expolit in order to compete with the honest players. Its like supporting for speedhacking, scripting and duping, i dont see these people any different than our typical hackers.

    Also people who dont think walking thru the field/ev/wither/essence of wind/thunderstorm/pot bombs threw by the nonfaction players in faction isnt advantagous is purely delusional. Its like saying its ok to speedhack and dupe because some people has different playstyle. You know some people prefer play to hack and some perfer to dupe so its OK. Sigh...
     
  14. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    *sighs*

    :wall:

    There is a bug, as I've said several times in this thread, where members of allied guilds cannot be healed or rezzed in Felucca about half the time, save by members of their alliance.

    Now, this isn't consistent, sometimes beneficial acts work, and sometimes they do not.

    Yes, being in an alliance would by definition get one out of this bug.

    OK, fine....If "fixing" a bug by using another one is a significant enough advantage, I can understand being angry at Faction/non-Faction Alliances. In other words, if the way Faction/non-Faction Alliances get you around the Alliance "beneficial acts" bug is a big enough advantage? I can understand that.

    Or, if what you are experiencing is not the Alliance bug, but something else? Some other aspect of being in Felucca that I've overlooked, that the Faction/non-Faction Alliance gets you around? Again, I can understand that argument against Faction/non-Faction Alliances

    Why no one but me has mentioned fields I don't know....I was expecting to be treated to lectures about the importance of fields in PvP. I could also buy fields as an argument for fixing, or disallowing, Faction/non-Faction Alliances.

    Finally, I can also understand being angry at Faction/non-Faction Alliances solely on the basis that they aren't technically allowed, yet work anyway. This is a game, and the rules of that game deserve some sanctity just because they are the rules.

    But.....None of this is what you are all saying. What I read time and time again in this thread is anger that others' actions in Felucca have an impact on you. I see no trace of irony in these arguments so I have to assume you're serious. I find the irony obvious, though.....Basically you're Fellies complaining about being other players' actions impacting you in Felucca, meanwhile much of the rest of your population cites this as a positive feature of Felucca.

    I have given you multiple arguments against Faction/non-Faction Alliances in this post. Any one of these I can understand.

    Why am I not hearing any of them?

    As to my benefiting from a bug? I've outlined my argument for why I like the idea of Faction/non-Faction Alliances in another post in this thread. Go find it. I do not benefit from this. I just checked, my guild is not allied to a Faction guild. Nor are we likely to be. We are allied to one guild, which for some reason isn't listed on UO.com (they must not have logged in for a long while). And the last time I saw that guild, it wasn't in Factions.

    -Galen's player
     
  15. HunterXHunter

    HunterXHunter Visitor

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    Noone mentioned about fields? You might want to actually read other people's post. Mine for one is talking about fields/evs and aoes and the definate advantages from them. You probably havent see multiple stealth archers hidden in the massive fields and evs laid by bounch of nonfaction mages just so they can statshot their enemies while their mages are safe from any kind of statloss and even if they got killed takes them 3 seconds to come back alive with their full template and throw down more "beneficial acts" to cover their faction crews ass for dirty, statshots.

    Its great that your guild dont abuse this exploit but it doesnt make it ok. So I dont dupe thats why its ok that people dupe the hell out of it right? I mean I dont benefit from duping so that makes it perfectly fine to exist in game so people perfer another playstyle can use it... is that correct?
     
  16. Lyconis

    Lyconis Sage
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    Lemme see if I can explain this better for you.

    NF = a Non faction player
    FAC = a Faction player

    NF attack or is attacked by FAC.
    Now beneficial acts cannot be done to NF by ANY FAC no matter the faction COM, MIN, SL, or TB.
    This can be as simple as a red FAC casting a paralyze field and a blue or red NF walking into it.

    Sounds like you are saying Beneficial acts are bugged because they only work if NF is not flagged as aggressor or being attacked by a FAC.
    Its a safeguard to keep NF's from interfering with FAC's affairs.
    Alliances are getting around this. The alliances also get all the perks of being part of a guild (thats everything this doesn't cover).
     
  17. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper
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    Ok, so DEVS mentioned that this is a BUG and not intended.

    Yet, MR GALEN KNIGHT would like to continue supporting this BUG.

    Conclusion: GM DEVS, please just go ahead and suspend / ban this person out of this game.


    Why would you support the BUG, the DEV publicly noticed in FOF?????

    HELLO? Could you answer me this?


    Very simple.

    You dont need any reason.

    You just NEED TO KNOW "ONE" thing.

    DEV posted that this issue = BUG/EXPLOIT

    BUG/EXPLOIT = intended use = suspend/ban

    OK finish. Now please stop yapping your mouth and wait for a DEVS.


    As for whoever said faction members cant heal or res non faction members IN THE SAME ALLIANCE.

    Please go pvp more before you yap your mouth.

    Thank you.
     
  18. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    It isn't that simple. This has been in the game for 5 years now and only now is it being stated this is not intended.

    The so called advantages are very minimal. Two separate guilds can cause just as much damage as two who are.
     
  19. HunterXHunter

    HunterXHunter Visitor

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    Are you serious? Your guild/alliance probably abuse this bug heavily. And thinking everytime you win isnt due to any advantage gained via EXPLOPITING.

    You play on Atl, there is a huge zerg alliance that abuses this exploit to the highest level. They would have lost many fights if they dont have such an exploit to exploit.
     
  20. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper
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    Advantages are very minimal???

    1. Can res up by faction mate and no stat loss
    2. Can heal and not getting fielded in

    Hmmm... very minimal!??

    BUT IT DOESNT FREAKIN MATTER AT ALL !

    IT IS ILLEGAL NOW.

    FACE THE TRUTH.

    THANK YOU.
     
  21. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    This is a huge advantage in every aspect. You can heal people without getting bene's, but more importantly are the fields and aoes.

    Two guilds would not do as much damage because they would actually have to be careful. Say your non faction guild is the one getting all the fields down, any of of your factioners flagged when the alliance gets broken soon will then be hit by the poison or para which would make a huge difference.

    Then let's not forget about wither, eq, ms, cl, hit area, wind, thunderstorm, purple pots, conflags, lightning arrows, whirlwind and frenzied whirlwind. People would be flagged to each other when a large guild is around, it's bound to happen. To say that this has no effect is crazy. It would make a huge difference.

    Link we both know that hot fields a lot and they partake in the faction non faction alliance. The odds that not a single person would hit each other in a big fight is slim to none. We all know that WILL make a difference. But it will be taken care of soon. : )
     
  22. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I have never run across this.

    What I have run across is a bug where only on some occasions can anyone in any alliance receive beneficial acts from anyone outside of that alliance. Factions or not.

    *shrugs*

    Taking your word for it, I don't recall ever reading anything about the situation you describe (non-Faction players being unable to receive beneficial acts from Faction players after being flagged or being flagged on by Faction players) until this thread.

    I guess I could see why they would implement this....Kind of the flip-side of Faction players not being able to receive any beneficial acts in Felucca from non-Faction players under any circumstances.

    Weird, though, how I'd never heard of this before....Certainly possible though, as I gave up on Faction some time ago and my 2 periods of involvement in it have been comparatively brief and spread very far apart.

    Has it always been this way, or is it a more recent thing?

    -Galen's player
     
  23. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Oh my. Someone has issues!

    This "point" in particular needs responding to:

    The fact that you would deduce this from my posts can only mean that either you didn't actually read my posts (in which case why are you responding to them) or that you lack basic reading comprehension.

    This is also worth noting:

    if only for amusement.

    -Galen's player
     
  24. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Yeah I can see the fields being an advantage (and in fact I referenced it in my very first post on this thread).

    I hadn't thought about the area effects. Largely because on those rare occasions I'm in Felucca I tend to assume that everyone's area effects can hit me, and react accordingly.

    When I was in Factions most recently (and for the record, at the time I was in an alliance with non-Factioners), the alliance I was in had nothing to do with Factions....Or with PvP in general for that matter. It was an RP alliance. And, at the time, this kind of alliance was explicitly legal. (See the history I presented in my first post.)

    And honestly, in supporting Faction/non-Faction alliances, that's pretty much what I had in mind.

    Once upon a time, Factions and RP interacted an awful lot on LS. And Factions and non-Faction PvP interacted a lot. Sometimes fighting, sometimes allying (in the days before there was an actual system for alliances).

    And also....I am and have long-been rather bitter about how often Factioners have whined about being attacked by non-Factioners, whereas when I was in Factions I just kind of took that as part of life in Felucca. The Shadowlords had many red, non-Faction friends who would come to their assistance.

    Oh well....That's my soft-pedaled, unfocused "rant" for the night I reckon.

    Now let's see if I have any insults to respond to before I log off.

    -Galen's player
     
  25. slayer888

    slayer888 Lore Keeper
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    I think you simply missed the whole point of my reply.

    My point is VERY VERY simple and CLEAR.

    1. There is no EXPLANATION NEEDED AT ALL because this is BUG / EXPLOIT that Mr Draconi mentioned in the FOF CLEAR and CLEAR.

    Do you need the link again?

    Now, someone in my shard is using this.

    Even there is "0" NO ADVANTAGE, it is still an EXPLOIT or BUG.

    Now using an exploit or bug is bannable offense or not?

    I dont think I need to answer you this question right?

    Now, we will just wait for DEVs to "FIX" this exploit / bug soon.

    But in the meantime, I encourage every guild who is in this status to drop the relationship before GM does it for you!

    Clear and Simple.

    You dont need to find many facts related to whatever blah blah advantages or not about this non faction guild ally with faction guild. Advantages or not, it is NOT intended by the DEVs and is considered an exploit/bug.

    So by saying having little to no advantages = utterly bull$hits supporting only.

    Thank you.
     
  26. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Simple test Galen, Go to fel(god forbid) attack someone, now get any one not in your guild/alliance to try and heal you. You WILL get a message

    "Beneficial acts cannot be performed on this character(somming like that)"

    Now get a guilded or allied person to try...bang...no bene acts.

    Factin and non-faction alliances circumvent this bene acts "bug" as you call it. Allowing them to heal each other while the non factioners dish out the majority of the damage to the faction opposition, while the factioners wait for the kill shot to stat them.
     
  27. Scratch

    Scratch Guest

    non faction player can not heal or help any faction member whether they are allied or not.
    factions can heal or rez people only if the dead are not in the 2min battle flag timer
    this non faction and faction alliance should be permitted as there is no real advantage and it increases the level of the field fights. stop cryin already and log in to play


    as far as all the ban this person talk
    i get called ***g ot nig ger daily and i page on people .
    they are still playing

    you want to cry about factions....how about the fact that they forced factions on pvpers by adding mods to artifacts when the artifacts should have been the exact copy of the original just cheap silver to purchase....no one is playig factions for sigils or town control,,,only to get the buffed artifacts....it was a bad ideal to buff them
    making them cheap and affordable to factioners should have been enuff to get factions going since the not so rich can get artifacts to compete in the pvp field
    now everyone joins factions for gear only.....i know i did...whats a sigil again????
    doesnt matter my spirit of the toem has 20/10/10/10/10 on it and pwns the original
    my cc has extra 5 dex on it. my runebeetle has more resist on it.....my fsg have 25 dci....
    get real people the problem with fqactins is not alliances but the overpowered gear

    so shut up join factions and get yours
     
  28. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    LOL!!!

    I do play and on my shard(GL) there is now only one major pvp guild that uses this alliance bug(TDR/J~W/RID alliance), And the majority of the pvp is in factions now.

    No advantage??

    So, a stealth archer faction being able to walk through allied non faction fields while they attack the faction oppostition to the point where he can pop shot sta them isnt an advantage??

    Faction guilds aiding(healing) non factioners while not being hit by the fields, then taking the kill shots against the factioners isnt an advantage???
     
  29. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    Quote:
    Why are faction guilds allowed to be allied with non faction guilds? This is a huge imbalance on the fighting field.

    They shouldn’t be able to, this is a bug and will be squashed appropriately. If your faction guild is allied with a non-faction guild, please drop the alliance before we do.
    -Draconi


    I just wish Draconi or whomever would give us a TIMELINE as to how much longer we may have yet before they DO this in some auto patch or something and thus to enable us to prepare to either separate these allied guilds before hand ...and not become punished on our accts. for trying to work up amiciable separations in time to DO this separations of faction non faction guilds some of whom been allied for ages.

    It will involve moving memberships around, appointing gms to host the *future* unallied guilds and so forth...be nice if he gave us some workable time frame time line deadline so WE can do this instead of them doing it TO OR AT US. Some of these alliances go way back, it is a lot of folks to move around.

    MYTH is allied to TNT on Siege..MYTH is full of many crafters so it is not like we are out there *in the field* at all, and every time I even try to res anyone allied or NOT sporting any faction tags..I get the gump can not perform beneficial acts on...any of them. Can they heal or res me, yeh but...usually I am dead no where near where they all are fighting anyhow same with the other crafters........not like we PVPING with our tinkertools out there defending TnT. . cuz um we'd be dead before we even got to try to help them out there in the field somewhere as crafters.

    But I do fathom there be them that exploit ..so basically it is a form of resolution and punish the innocent for the guilty few that may be doing stuff that is upsetting the apple cart for pvping factioners and so forth.

    No matter, we ARE trying to get our ducks in a row per guild for the grand UNALLIANCE but it would be nice if EA UO gave us a time frame timeline to know how long we have to try to work out separating alliances of factioners and non factioners guilds .....before they drop the hatchet upon us without any *timeline* in some mystery patch or suffereing our accts for not getting it done as quickly as......whatever their deadline IS which none of us yet even KNOW. :(

    GIVE US A TIME FRAME, many of us are willing to co operate and we CAN do this if this is how it must be, to get our guilds .......unallied. Give us a deadline to work all these players into their appointed guilds faction non faction ..........unallied then.
     
  30. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    I know this may be a silly suggestion, due to the all over fel ruleset, but you could join your crafter guild into factions...not only can you get the cool tag on the armour but you can also crafte faction coloured items(with a decent supply of silver) and be able to res your faction allies.

    A time frame would be nice, but still waiting on the ninja form taking a control slot patch...and the concussion blow change...and the pet balance...need to go on?
     
  31. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    NO hehe Not every crafter wants to BE in factions at all.

    Heck I WAS in Factions when factions were new to UO on Chesapeake.. limited time to play many a night...had my fill of stat loss back then but I was pvper templates back then. :) *shudders at the concept* of being in factions with my crafters on Siege...I mean maybe if they UO offered MORE for crafters to MAKE in factions more crafters would be interested IN factions. As is ............NOT ! Those whom ARE interested in putting their crafters into Minax on Siege whom were MYTH...will go/are going to TnT.. cuz they forcin us to separate anyhow. Would be nice if they gave us that timeline though.

    And that faction GEAR many on Siege no longer even WANT THAT STUFF on Siege. :) Cuz them that DO pvp that are not in factions are competing with them who DO have that fancy pantser FACTION GEAR on em. . so they feel imbalanced as non factioner pvpers.

    NAY...whilst we will miss *alliance chat* and much more TNT and Guardians of MYTH will just co operate ..........cuz it has not been OUR crafters exploiting whatevers assisting TNT out there in the field.

    I did craft up a golem once to try to kill a pk buggin me...but um my lil heavy metal golem, Iron Maiden DIED to that pk then ..so did I ! haha

    WE hope to try to co operate since no alternative measures seemed to be forth coming to separate our very old Siege alliance of.........factioners non factioners guilds on Siege least as far as we are concerned trying to get this done without *forced upon us by surprises* at least...but a TIME FRAME would help us ! Lots of folks to move around yet !! And this will be the same for ALL allied guilds on ALL Shards...need time to do this forced separation if that is what EA UO is going to go with cuz there are a lot of guilds faction non faction in alliances, many of those extra guilds of JUST crafters running vendor shops not pvping AT ALL allied with Factioners on ALL SHARDS. It is not us doing the exploits either...but WE will co operate separate. And once they do this...them that find a way around the rules will STILL do it all...so like I said the innocent get punished for the guilty all the time...nothing new there.
     
  32. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Its a different kind of faction gear, im not sure if it works the same on siege, but on prodo you can craft runic gear...while in a smith/tailor(depending on whether leather or metal) shop, in a town under your factions control and make it faction blessed and faction colour for a period.

    Its not the UBER faction arties...just things like clothing and armour.

    (i believe, i only found this out a while ago and havent tested it)
     
  33. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    hehe GOOD YOU GO IN AND TEST IT hehe

    Now if EA UO ever made it so a GM carpenter with GM tinker can really spiffy up faction compounds Im IN.

    I once was in a contest of ...........find the loot in large crates on Siege and I trapped some to KILL or wound some people too eagerly thinking they had picked up THE chest with the gp checks in it ..and stacked up more like a giant Women's Night out FORTRESS and it was really fun...so if ever they let carpenters spiffy up faction compounds to all sorts of goodies like EMs maybe can do with appropo crafter skills............I'd be so into that. haha :)

    But as it is yay I could tinker faction traps...big deal that is so OLD...we need more to DO as crafters in factions...then more would go for it...besides a bit of faction gear or something...I mean the entire crafters templates hehe let carpenters make beds of nails to cut into opposing factioners feet when they try to break in.... hehe let us craft better WALLS in them compounds and so on. TURN US CARPENTERS LOOSE then we will be in factions. *Imagines carpenters making hangin gallows for opposing factioners to swing from....*

    or our alchemist able to make MISSY MINAX mystery potion that work like a unibomber on the opposing factioners... etc. or or.. scribes join a faction and they can make special spells and spellbooks that offers something unique new to their faction...a spell where they can scribe it where the factions monster would be summoned..to off some opposing factioner...or some different spell per faction the other factions dont have yes imbalance..*cough* but only a faction scribe can scribe those.
    haha
     
  34. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I would ask that you refrain from attacks that are both untrue as well as unfounded. When doing spawns, the non factioners work the spawn while the factioners work on killing the OJs. I don't see what all the commotion is all about, besides a few kids being butthurt about something that has no effect on their gameplay.
     
  35. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    You wouldnt, being in one of said alliances.
     
  36. HunterXHunter

    HunterXHunter Visitor

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    Then when an honest faction rolled in the nonfaction can start fielding the bridges and send in faction stealthers/mages/tamers/dexers/archers and stand in the field and waiting for a dirty, zero skill, risk-free point shot... Carebear much?

    Sigh, please stop defending an exploit, maybe your guild/life depend on an exploit to compete but dude try it without all the exploits. It's much more fun, and people dont look at you thinking "damn another trammie pvper wannabe".

    Oh yea, I use my red and do spawn with unallied blue friends all the time, takes some skill to manage where to throw EV and where to fiend, but completely doable and do not rely on exploit to gain advantage. Try it, this is fel, and if you choose to be in faction, dont rely on your meatshield to take the hit and death for you while you get easy kills. Grow a pair and try it, it isnt really that hard to play in faction without an exploit(officially stated by DEV).
     
  37. CatLord

    CatLord Guest


    Allow us to report it and GMs to warn the guild about breaking the rules and this will be soon fixed...
     
  38. Arabella

    Arabella Lore Keeper
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    Wait, What! You mean there are still GM's in this game? Wow, I didn't realize they existed, thought they were just a myth!:danceb:
     
  39. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Nope.

    You mean the link I provided and you didn't? No I think my providing it in my first post on this thread has it covered.

    Other than insults and ranting I don't think you really have one. Others have made the case much better than you have. Hell, I made it better and I am not sure I agree with you.

    Though I agree with you a lot more upon reflection. Of course your posts are so bizarrely incoherent that I could disagree with you and not know it.

    But if your point is that these alliances should not be allowed (current policy should be unchanged) then I'm coming closer to agreeing with that.

    I had this one covered too....The way I expressed it was something like, that this is a game and the rules deserved some sanctity simply because they were the rules.

    Actually not every bug has led to banning. If that were true, think of all the mass bannings of Fellies that would occur when you all go to Trammel and try to lure monsters on people. Or the use of various cheats and exploits which you all complain about constantly. (Though I'm wondering how correct most of those are, since I have been accused of speed-hacking and I move far too slowly to actually be hacking.)

    Supporting a policy change on the boards is also not grounds for banning, far as I know. Cute of you to advocate banning me on that basis, though. I don't think I've ever quite seen anything like that.

    Game: This is an exploit.

    Player on boards: I don't think it should be.

    You: BAN THAT PLAYER!!!

    Cute.

    Seriously though.....You need to learn basic reading comprehension a little better. I had most of what you're saying covered.

    And if I'm understanding your incoherent ranting correctly, then I agree with you more now than I did when the thread began.

    -Galen's player
     
  40. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I actually get the beneficial acts about half the time whether I'm flagged on someone or not.

    This remark makes me laugh on so many levels.

    Fortunately the merits of this particular argument go beyond the posting abilities of many of its advocates, especially the original poster in this thread.

    In retrospect, it's actually rather naive of me to have ever thought of people using Faction/non-Faction alliances the way I envisioned it, and the way I did it back when it was explicitly legal.....The only reason most Fellies would engage in such an alliance, now that I think about it, would be to gain some sort of advantage.

    The more I think about it, the more wrong I think I was, actually.

    -Galen's player
     
  41. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Im not going to get into an argument about the rest(my posting levels :p) but this bene acts, is when a player does a negative action. Criminal action or such like, they cant be healed until the timer has run(from non allied).

    So if a player attacks someone...or heals a red(i think cant remember) they cannot have beneficial acts performed on them until the timer runs.
     
  42. HunterXHunter

    HunterXHunter Visitor

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    Ok lets assume the easily reproduced "bug" actually works as you suggested and DEV werent intended to put some kind of code to prevent nonfaction to interfere with faction fights (DEVs most likely did but OK). By entering an alliance you can get rid of this "bug" 100% of the time correct? This is indeed a definite advantage still dont you think so?

    I dont know how you "tested" this but I can reproduce this bug 100% of the time. Have a blue/red nonfaction to attack me, and I then try to heal him which will result in bene act, and if I killed him and tries to rez him which will also result in bene acts... again 100% of the time. This bug will not happen if the blue/red didnt flag me first in this case I can xheal and rez him.

    When bene acts happens no one can xheal/rez him 100% of the time however, anyone from his alliance can xheal/rez them 100% of the time regardless the condition (including the blue has interfered faction gameplay by fielding for his faction friends in his alliance). Anyone with a sane mind knows the great advantages this can be... thus many zerggy guild uses this exploit to create alliance. Most commonly choke points setup by nonfaction with their OJs running free in and out of their choke points not worrying about being auto targeted by their wither bomb and super dragon defense line.

    Go to ATL and watch HEAT/HOT, this is their common practice ESPECIALLY in big chokepoint fights like a harry defense line. I believe you understand the advantage if you are an active group PvPer... people saying this exploit provides with minimal advantage is clearly delusional (or is abusing this exploit to "maintain" their playstyle aka OJ cheapshot tactics while their choke mages being un-statable).
     
  43. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Calm down, then go and read my last couple of posts in this thread with an objective eye and you will hopefully notice something interesting.

    For this to work you have to calm down at least to the point where you're not looking to fight.

    I know it's difficult, because everything is a competition for Fellies.

    -Galen's player
     
  44. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Rich, faction crafting the way it works today is a waste of silver. If you had an unlimited supply of runic kits and silver, theoretically you could sit and craft a pile of stuff and just bless the usable "exceptional" stuff as soon as you see what you made and that it's something you will actually use. But I'm not sure it would be worth it just to make it blessed and faction-hued for the first 21 days after the item was created. You can never go back and apply the faction blessing/hue to the item again. If you want to faction bless/hue exceptionally-created stuff made with non-runic tools, you could do that on a regular basis; however, I suspect most players these days would turn up their noses at the stuff, other than maybe robes, dresses, cloaks, or sandals.

    Nope, faction crafters other than tinkers are not important within the faction system. Any non-tinker crafters you see in factions are most likely only in factions for the purpose of getting a war horse to ride or bank sit with.
     
  45. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    That is 100% false. You can not resurrect a faction member with an allied non-faction person. You can no heal/cure a faction member with an allied non-faction person. You will still get fielded in by energy fields no matter who you are.

    I'm going to make a video showing this just so that there will be no mistake anymore. For people to keep claiming this is possible is just ridiculous.
     
  46. You can't craft blessed faction items. That was broken unintentionally by Mr. Tact about 5-6 years ago and it was never fixed.
     
  47. The biggest advantage I notice is that area effect spells don't affect guild members or allied guilds so reds and blues can play on the same team without having AOE spells (and fields i.e. poison, para) harm each other.
     
  48. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Yes that is the major complaint about this. But when you have two groups working together who are not allied, you just make sure not to get in the line of fire. Or you don't use area attack spells. In factions you can hurt other faction members not in the same guild with your area attacks. So you may not be using them anyway.
     
  49. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Sorry, JC.....The more I think about this, the more wrong I was at the start, and you still are.

    And one example from my own recent past should have driven home the point for me.

    When I used to try and pick off red Factioners I didn't like in the midst of Faction fights, I found myself extremely handicapped by my lack of ability to cast Holy Light.

    Even though I knew the other Factioners would turn on me sooner or later, if I flagged on them, it'd give them an "excuse," and would hamper my ability to get out quickly if I had to. If I didn't flag on anyone but my target, I could drop that target and recall out, or keep fighting. But if I flagged on someone else, I'd have to keep fighting, my connection is often too slow to run away effectively. Also my enemies are extremely fond of dismount ganks.

    I forgot about area effects completely. Once I remembered those, and remembered of what use they are? And remembered that most people who do Faction/non-Faction alliances aren't doing it for social or RP purposes like I was? Then changing my position was a fairly easy matter.

    -Galen's player

    just a quick edit: JC, your previous post about not being able to perform beneficial acts on Factioners if you're not in Factions, even if you are allied to them, is as far as I know correct......Some of the arguments made against these alliances are ridiculous. But, that doesn't mean their conclusions are wrong, just that the paths they use to get there are wrong. Didn't want you to think I was disagreeing with all of the facts you were presenting...I just have, eventually come to the opposite conclusion.
     
  50. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Ummm.....yes, you can craft "blessed" faction items.

    I made the stuff in the screen shot below, plus a pair of TB purple sandals, last week on GL with my faction tinker/tailor/smith character:

    [​IMG]

    According to what's in the Playguide on the official UO site, the things you can faction bless/hue are:

    • Metal armor - 1000 silver
    • Leather armor - 750 silver
    • Weapons (melee and archery; who knows if they'll remember to add in throwing) - 1000 silver
    • Clothing - 200 silver (This includes such things as cloaks, robes, dresses, skirts, shirts, sandals, aprons, etc.)

    In order to make the gump show up, you have to satisfy all of the following criteria at the time the item is crafted:

    • The crafter must belong to a faction and be in the appropriate NPC shop in a faction town currently controlled by his or her faction while making the item. Note: I'm not sure if this criteria is considered satisfied if the crafter is in the process of quitting the faction.
    • The crafter must have sufficient silver in his/her backpack (see amounts listed above for various types of items).
    • The item must be exceptional quality when crafted. The crafter does NOT have to have GM or better skill in the skill used to make the item.

    Assuming all these criteria are satisfied, as soon as the item is created, a gump will appear asking if you want the item to be faction hued/blessed and which of the faction's two colors it should be. The gump also indicates the cost and how much silver you actually have in your pack.

    If the crafter has GM or better skill and selected the option to show the maker's mark, the crafter's name will appear on the exceptionally-crafted item, followed on the same line with the faction abbreviation in brackets (e.g., "Anna [TB]"). (This is true whether or not you faction hue/bless the item, as long as the exceptionally-crafted item is made somewhere in Felucca. Exceptionally-crafted items made in Trammel by a faction crafter will only show the crafter's name, if that option is selected. They do not show the crafter's faction and, obviously, there's no way to faction bless/hue them if you make them in Trammel.)

    The faction hue/blessing is only supposed to last 21 days.

    More info is here on the UO.com site: http://www.uoherald.com/guide/guide.php?guideId=212.