1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Difference between shore fishing and boat fishing?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Hunters' Moon, Jun 9, 2012.

  1. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    120
    I was fishing around Skara on the banks. At 61.3 skill I was getting just as many of the legacy fish as I was getting the new high seas fish. About five minutes later I dropped my ship into the water to lobster fish on the deep-water side of the my ship while shallow-water fishing the same area. This time around,my catches were all high seas fish.I was targeting the same water tiles as before but there was a huge difference in what was caught. Why is there such a marked difference in shore fishing and boat fishing?
     
    Sevin0oo0 likes this.
  2. Alstadt

    Alstadt Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    6
    ats a good question;) but i have no idea.
     
  3. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    280
    If your boat is a tokuno boat, it adds 1 skill point (not 5, correction by Parnoc) to fishing.
     
    G.v.P likes this.
  4. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    120
    Interesting. There is that much difference in 61.3 and 66.3(modified) with the percent chance to catch high seas fish? On the bank I was about 50/50. On my Tokuno boat all my catches,about 30 fish,were high seas fish.
     
  5. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    I fish. A lot.
    After all the quests I've done I still haven't gotten a 20 scroll. I've just assumed my character was bugged.
    I wonder if it has something to do with my tokuno boat now...
     
  6. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    280
    Your chance to catch anything from the sea depends both on your skill and the number of tiles your spot is away from the shore. I'm not sure about the chances of legacy and the high seas fish though, Crysta, Cailleach and Petra tested most of the fishing related content added with the High Seas booster during the beta, I largely tested the rare fish and pirate hunting, they might know more about that.

    I got about six legendary scrolls of fishing using a tokuno boat from orders with total points ranging from 105 to 120 (acc. to bait charges). I do suspect, however, that the number of a specific type of fish you caught loops back to zero after six, causing the system to draw one liners one after another even though you have 120 skill points and completed more than 6 orders for all fish and crustacean types.
     
  7. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    I am a strong believer in characters just being bugged out. I have characters that cannot get artifacts. I have some who get artifacts like they pouring out of the system like gravy. My fishing chick also has a skill gain bug where she can't get a skill gain when she's over 500 skill points. (I haven't even tried in quite some time tbh) So I soulstone skills in order to use her or gain fishing. I combine scrolls and can get 15s without too much grind, but I have yet to get a 20 fishing.
     
  8. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    280
    I have a quite similar experience but I think it is the case of evil and stupid rng:

    [​IMG]
     
    Shelleybean, Ludes, Mirt and 4 others like this.
  9. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,712
    Likes Received:
    224
    catching high seas fish is a factor of your skill level, not location, I don't remeber the exact cut but 65 does sound about right, as where you basicly stop getting the classic fish and get the high seas ones. What deep water does is give you a chance for rarer fish and deep sea serpents (also increases difficutly level in catching anything), the boat is actually irrelivant, it only matters how far you are from "shore"
     
  10. Parnoc

    Parnoc Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    479
    Unless something has happened very recently a Tokuno ship only gives 1 point to skill, not 5.

    References:

    Tokuno Ship - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia

    http//uo2.stratics.com/miscellaneous/ships-guide
     
    Nimuaq likes this.
  11. O'Brien

    O'Brien Thought Police

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2012
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    159
  12. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    280
    You're right, it only gives an additional point. I don't know how I got that wrong and it is more ironic that I actually edited one of the references there :).

    Clustering illusion while seems to explain rng related problems, is not valid for a single observer. To fully test the rng, you need get samples from all of the actions that every single player takes on that shard and not from a single action from a single player. Since rng generates a sequence of numbers not exclusively to each player, it is possible for a player to get the low numbers while another player gets the high ones:

    From Random Number Generator - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia
    So rng can be evil to some players. However, I think you are right about the perception related issues players are having, but at the same time, when a spell you have 99% chance to cast fizzles three times in a row and you're dead because of it, you don't care to cast it 297 times more just to test it. The same way and for fishmonger quests, when you get baits as rewards for 100s of times, you don't care to continue the quests to see if you will ever get a 120 ps, even though you might get multiple times if you just don't give up, you just no longer believe that you can.
     
  13. O'Brien

    O'Brien Thought Police

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2012
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    159
    It is valid.

    If you roll a 6-sided die 3 times, there is a 1/36 chance you roll the same number all 3 times (1/6 * 1/6). It doesn't matter if the die is rolled for someone else 500 times before, in between, or after. Furthermore, it doesn't mean the die is "bugged." On the 4th roll, you still have a 1/6 chance to roll the same number again.

    When you play roulette in Las Vegas, it doesn't matter that red 36 has only come up twice in the last 500 games, and black 11 has come up 8 times. It likewise doesn't matter what numbers are coming up on other tables you're not playing on: Both black 11 and red 36 are still equal chance of wins in future games.

    Any attempt to explain streaks or clusters in a sequence of random numbers other than with the clustering illusion concept, no matter how you divide up the sequence and give part of it to you, me, him, her, etc. is needlessly complicating a simple answer, superstitious, and/or wrong.

    How a RNG should or shouldn't be used in a game, since some get prizes/wins immediately while for others it seems to never come, is subject for another debate.
     
  14. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,712
    Likes Received:
    224
    1/36 chance...assuming it's a proper RNG. With the state of UO's software they could very well be using an old "weak" software RNG implementation that's prone to patterns, ones seeded by only the current time in particular are prone to this. It's actually funny that you bring up vegas because it's pretty relevant when talking about broken software RNG's. Some of the old video poker machines (long gone now, this was like mid 90's) had a poor RNG implementation causing the patterns to be predictable to a careful observer, drawing a few cards from the deck you could predict what will be drawn next from that point further, though not in a way a normal person could simply "memorize", a very simple computer however could easily figure out from the cards on screen which cards would be drawn from the deck, and some enterprising folks did exactly that walking away with quite a bit.
     
  15. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    280
    Let me try to explain it in one sentence, hoping that it won't be too complex: while the overall generated numbers from an ideal random number generator will be uniformly distributed, it does not mean that all subsets of those numbers will be uniformly distributed too.
     
  16. O'Brien

    O'Brien Thought Police

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2012
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    159
    Why?
     
  17. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Every time I think about somthing it ends up on here.. I was just thinking it would be nice to add deep deep water. So they could add spawns that would spawn more. Maybe later we could get some storms added and wind. So we have the water that is close to shore maybe expand that then we could have waters that are more dangerous and with more rare fish. Maybe flying fish that jump on the boat or just fly by you and cut you up..

    The Rng, dose anyone take into account that alot of other number are being used and they are not random. So is that not kinda like saying some things will happen for sure and that there is a chance other things will not.. So you already have taken alot of chance away. Even if you use other number that are programed to be used for example the computer calls out numbers it is asked to, then you ask for a random number have you not changed that number by already calling one out. A more complex way to look at it might be what makes it a number at all and how was the set of number picked if not already per called to work in a random way. Like 000ff00 ff000ff0 so now it is not even really looking at numbers at all and rather then seeing in this form we might even be able to see how the energy is changed as each set of data moves thro to if the patterns are some how changed do to a flux of energy. Kinda of like an atomic clock vs someone counting cards.

    Dose the RNG Remember what number it has called and then look back in time to make sure it has not already used a number or is it the way we define random to mean the same? So even if it is the same we beleave it to be random?
     
    Sevin0oo0 likes this.
  18. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    I'd like to see more added to the fishing part.... more fish , and other creatures. In the real world old fishers delight in Squid, Octopus, Shellfish(clams, oysters, abalone, scallops, and muscles) eels... the sea in rl is so full of ideas for use.
    To the fishing up add in Star fish there are plenty of types...kelp, Seaweed...
    Flutter dont feel bad in my early days as a Blue Robe I and a GM had to help a young player who for weeks tried to gain ANY skill.... she had suffered for those two weeks thinking she was doing it all wrong... it was her first and only character... Took us 5 minutes to get her to leave al her things from her bank box and character in the house she was given to log out and delete that character. The GM and I waited for her to remake the new "her" and we got her back on the house as owner and all and the gm for all her effort gave her 50 in each skill she had picked. Poor dear had made a bugged character, It still happens. You can in this day and age stone all her skills and do that same as she did... yes I know you have her stats up there but in the long run it might be best to ether have another make the skills or wash this one out and make a new one.
     
    Sevin0oo0 likes this.
  19. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    If it were still in an age that soulstones didn't exist I would for sure. As many years as I have played this game I know there is such a thing as bugged characters. RNG or no RNG. I've played long enough to know. So the debate on random rolls and whatnot isn't really necessary for myself and people like me. I find it best to make the characters who never ever have gotten artifacts in all the years artifacts have existed into things like crafters or pvp characters instead of PvM or peerless/gauntlet/spawn runners.
     
  20. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    280
    Because not all subsets have the same size, which favors the clustering illusion but what I don't accept in clustering illusion is that it only refers to a single process and a single observer so he/she has the chance to correctly sample a data (or subset) and just doesn't while in UO, we might not (not we cant) have that chance since it basically divides the data to several subsets subject to different conditions and actions. I think you are right about the emotional issues we are having while evaluating a set of outcomes though.
     
  21. O'Brien

    O'Brien Thought Police

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2012
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    159
    I'm not saying bugged characters don't exist, but a lot of the folks who think they have bugged characters just got the equivalent of a set of unfavorable roles that are normal in any random sequence of numbers.

    Secondly, played long enough to know? That makes you an expert on the subject? How long is long enough to know? Tell me how many years that is and I'll find plenty of players who have played for that long and don't "know". And just who are "people like" you? Everyone who are convinced bugged characters are common in UO? Well, that's nice.

    Let me log into one of these "bugged" characters and see if I can't get an artifact. If I can't, then I'll silence :cool:
     
  22. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    Wow dude. Did I hit some kinda nerve? You mad bro?
    I'm saying (quite simply) I have played my characters long enough to know if one is bugged or just having a bad chain of RNG luck. It's not hard to understand. I suppose "long enough" would be relative to the individual. The two characters I am talking about here (the fisher and the character who can't get an artifact) are both on the same account and were created around UO:R. The fisher I only recently (within the past three years) started playing again, as I never bothered with her since she couldn't gain skill.
    I'm glad you somehow know what everyone else's characters are like and if they are just idiots who think their characters are bugged because they get a bad RNG run or if their characters really are bugged. Good for you. I am speaking about myself and "people like me", who have played the game, know the game, know what reasonable results are, and when their characters are bugged versus having a bad run of "luck" with the RNG.

    And no, you don't need to log on my bugged characters. I really, deep in the most honest part of my heart, don't care if you believe me or not.
     
  23. O'Brien

    O'Brien Thought Police

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2012
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    159
    No? Well maybe a peeve with folks spreading misinformation or borderline better-than-thou types. That's probably not you, you're probably really cool but I tend to read your posts wrong or something!

    No that's not hard to understand. But that's not exactly what you wrote. You wrote: "As many years as I have played this game I know there is such a thing as bugged characters. RNG or no RNG. I've played long enough to know." I'm glad you've backpedaled on that, because that sounded kinda condescending.

    I actually said the opposite: "I'm not saying bugged characters don't exist". Did I hit some kinda nerve? U mad bro? Conversely, I'm glad you somehow know that all claims of bugged characters are legitimate. Good for you.

    Well, good. That means you're talking about most of the regular posters and readers here. You were not needlessly insulting our intelligence afterall.

    I expected as much. Anyway, what does having the bug verified by an independent 3rd party accomplish when it can be posted about as fact without anything to back it up, and then worked around instead of ever being addressed? Let's just hope that no new players run into it.
     
  24. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,881
    Likes Received:
    5,164
    There's a fair bit of RNG strangeness in fishing. I've gotten 120 scrolls, and fished quests enough afterward to gain the points, on 3 shards and yet have never received a 115 scroll. Weird huh?
     
  25. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    397
    Same here with 2 120s and not one 115. Made two and about to make 3rd 115 with 110s. Had another magic boat sinking so not buzzed about starting again after having to deleting 5 quest.

    Bagged characters. Stopped gaining stats at 155 total. 100 free points and not one gain in over 5 years. Once I have all the 120PS used I'll stone and delete. Never been in a rush being a thief that snatch grabs and runs. Grabbing Labrynth pottery is the only pain with low STR.
     
  26. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2003
    Messages:
    1,856
    Likes Received:
    51
    Maybe bugged RNG leads to bugged characters. I remember a player about 10+ years ago who could not gain cartography past a certain point. She decoded hundreds and possibly even a thousand or so maps and couldn't gain. She posted about it quite extensively on Stratics. Not long after, the guaranteed gain system was released. I remember wondering if the devs created that system because of that player's situation.
     
  27. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    With 6 Fisher characters on 5 shards all fishing past gm fishing skill only 2 have gotten scrolls 105 and 110's and the one who got both lvls has been 120 for ages and not one scroll over the 110..... (had to buy the 120)
    I cant be certin why the Dev made the guaranteed gain system but I do know it didnt work for all stuck characters.... I have a "dead" skill wise character when I made her I gave her the standard beginning choices but as she was not for working but holding I never looked at her skill tree.... that was till last year. I remember making her, but when I looked on her tree she has (0) in skills. Not one measly point.... no focus ... we all know you just need to move and thaqt skil skyrockets... but on her nope. This character is odd to say the least. She cant gain.... I have kept her out of sheere amazment that there can exsist one like her.
     
  28. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    120
    *tags to last*

    Since we are talking about fishing and such,I have a question for a Dev or someone in the know. Why can't we cook crab and lobsters in the BBQ menu? I have tons of both lobster and crab but none of the fishmongers are asking for any. I think it would be a good addition to the cooking menu.
     
    Mirt likes this.