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Disarm, the way it works now, is ridiculous

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Llewen, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    On a whole bunch of levels, the way disarm works now is ridiculous. It turns dexxer battles into a long string of disarm/chase cycles that destroy any flow in pvp, and just in general make battles frustrating, annoying, and completely lacking in any real skill. There is no way that a warrior with 150 str/dex and legendary weapon skill and tactics, should be able to be disarmed by anyone.

    Traditionally in rpgs, and even in "real life" disarming anyone of equal skill, strength and dexterity is impossible. That move is something reserved for a very wide disparity in talent. It isn't enough that you can only disarm on an actual hit, there needs to be much more to it than that.

    Here is my proposal. First you have to hit with your attempt, which uses up the mana for the attempt, then your chance to disarm equals the total of your weapon skill (all skills and stats as adjusted, not as "real"), tactics, strength and dexterity, divided by 4, minus the same for your target. You spend the mana for the attempt whether you succeed or not, and experience the same increases in cost for multiple attempts as you do with any special attack, again, whether it is a success or failure.

    The way disarm works currently isn't just illogical, and ridiculous on that level, it makes pvp against a dexxer, or even as a dexxer, a lot less fun. Very rarely does a successful disarm lead to a kill, unless the attacker is using certain cheats, most of the time all it does is destroy the flow of the battle, and lead to alot of frustration and annoyance.
     
  2. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    Special Moves are the worst things to ever happen to PvP.

    For PvM specials are great.
     
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  3. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I don't have problems with specials in general, just disarm. If it weren't for weapon specials the old school "pure" dexxer template wouldn't be viable. But disarm the way it works now is ridiculous...
     
  4. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Combat skill + Tactics/2 = Character Defensive Rating.

    I've given this suggestion to the devs once and they seemed interested since it's involving multiple skills to calculate combat defense.

    Gives a reason besides max DI for the skill tactics and is a slight nerf to skill skimping templates.

    Disarm's fine, but it should be purely defensive. The fact it removes any chance of defense is ridiculous.
     
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  5. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    A dexter can barley hit a parry mage with a weapon in his hands as it is. I have seen me miss the disarm on a parry mage so much i have to run as he just cant be hit. And you want to make it harder? Do you play a mage by chance that uses a weapon for DCI?
     
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  6. garillo

    garillo Journeyman

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    Disarm should've been left at a 100 point skill
     
  7. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    The idea of using a comparative formula to determine success or ability to resist disarm is intriguing. But in general this is an ancient problem and I am not sure it is the most important thing to fix atm.
     
  8. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I don't get it. I use disarm in PVM, I don't get a guaranteed disarm, even on a hit, but the mana loss always happens; all GM sword skills.
    Usually being successful on the first or second try, I can't say if it's ever taken a third attempt.
     
  9. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    Special moves and mage weapons, shoudl be a reverse mage weapon to make it fair also, gives you skill - 20 magery based on your weapon skill :D
     
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  10. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    if mage weapon equipped, then affected by mage slayer talisman?
     
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  11. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Hang around the Yew atl gate. If you stumble over a beetle/mare combo you have found the OP.
     
  12. Saint of Killers

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    The OP Llewen should have listed his template at the start of this thread:

    -Temp: Mage/tamer/chiv.
    -Primary pets: Beetle/mare.
    -Defensive skill: Planesword mage wep -20.

    This is yet another pvp mage weapon user thread. Mage weapons, mind you, that need ZERO extra skill to gain the same defensive ability as a dexxer devoting 120 points to a specific weapon skill, not to mention at least 90 tactics to perform all specials applicable with that weapon skill.

    All these mage weapon whiners need to whine less, and put on wrestling 120 or anatomy 100/eval 120. Boo hoo if your template is crammed. So is everyone's template.
     
    garillo and Picus of Napa like this.
  13. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Maybe attacker's tactics skill or wrestling skill (whichever is higher) vs. defender's tactics skill. Seems like the only issue is tactics.

    (Attacker's tact skill or wres skill - Defender's tact skill) * 0.2 = duration of disarm
    if duration of disarm <= 0 then disarm doesn't happen
    if duration of disarm > 5, cap at 5
    if duration of disarm < 1 & >0, duration = 1

    120 tact vs. 120 tact = no disarm
    120 tact vs. 0 tact = 5 seconds
    120 tact vs. 110 tact = 2 seconds
    120 tact vs 100 tact = 4 seconds
    120 tact vs. 90 tact = 5 seconds
    120 tact vs. 120 wres = no disarm
    120 wres vs. 120 tact = no disarm
    120 wres vs. 110 tact = 2 seconds
    90 tact vs 120 wres = no disarm
    90 tact vs 120 tact = no disarm
    120 wres vs. 119 tact = 1 second

    wouldn't really affect mage weapon users at all
     
  14. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    That's the point.. they miss out on benefits since they take the cheap way for getting defense.

    You seemed to miss my point with the calculation part. Disarm should do the same thing it does now. It shouldn't give you the benefit of 100% chance to hit the effected target though. 100% HLD for 8 mana yeah..
     
  15. Driven Insane

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    Yep, this is why I initially ignored this thread when he posted it yesterday. I was hoping the thread would just disappear because if disarm was really as ridiculous as the OP suggests, why is there not a huge uproar from people with multiple threads created daily?
     
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  16. Driven Insane

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't even PvP do you?

    Yet every PvP/Faction thread has multiple posts from you. Are you really so bored that you need to post 25+ times a day, even in topics you clearly know nothing about.
     
  17. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    Really there should be a 5 second additional delay for rearm if you are using a mage weapon. As it stands right now the bonus vs short issue with disarm is hardly even worth making a thread about.
     
  18. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Well, I'm really bored with remarks such as yours.
    I'm entitled to comment about anything that may affect my game play, and disarm would clearly fall under that
    I don't know anything about eating dog poop either, but i bet I can tell you it's not a good thing. I clearly stated I didn't understand, And that I use it in PVM. If you actually cared about UO and other players, maybe you'd be helpful and explain things, since i clearly know nothing. youmadbro?
    It's been said Dev's don't play, must be why they never post, they clearly know nothing too.
    If it bothers you that much, click my name, click ignore, easy, just did it. 1 in the Silent Minority.
    If it really bothers you that much, that's really too bad - many of my posts are Liked, except I care nothing about popularity, just UO, and IF a Stratics person says "YO, quit being an idiot", that is when I'll take it under advisement, not because You say so
    :next:
     
  19. Driven Insane

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    Ok let me help you. Disarm in PvM is a freakin waste. Use something else.
     
  20. garillo

    garillo Journeyman

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    Often when stratics people say this and you don't listen they ban you. After multiple warnings and bans, if you manage to get back in, the site constantly redirects you to the ToS page. This isn't bad, until you find out the site has some javascript errors going and you find yourself f5'ing constantly to be redirected to a dead screen.

    I can navigate stratics just fine until I log in. Then it's just like " BAM! javascript error BAM! javascript error BAM! javascript error BAM! javascript error BAM! javascript error" 15 minutes later you can look at the one page you wanted to load, after the ToS is spammed to you through 5 refreshes and 40 javascript errors.

    Feels good man.
     
  21. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I mentioned mage weapons because a few posters attacked the OP for personal reasons rather than looking at his formula and debating his formula. I didn't actually see anything in your post about mage weapons other than indirectly.

    You didn't really describe what CDR would do. I assume you meant CDR would provide defense while you're disarmed? You say you want disarm to "do the same thing it does now." I don't think 100% HLD is the extent of why disarm is broken, and to touch on what the OP is trying to get across, I don't see why disarm should work in a 120 vs. 120 fight. That's why I'm suggesting not only a reason to have tactics but a reason to make disarm worthless unless you're fighting gimp templates (90 tact/mage weapon). It's also kind of weird that disarm does damage, but that's another story.

    Like others have noted, if you get disarmed and you don't have wrestling, evade, or parry, then yeah, you made the choice not to have those skills. You also made the choice of when to drink your heal pot. But really, disarm usually isn't the end of the world in a 1v1 fight between dexxers, which is what the OP is trying to address. It's just annoying more than anything else. Five seconds is way too long.

    Retaining 100% defense w/ CDR (if that's what you're implying) doesn't change the annoyance factor, nor does it make sense against an equal skilled (statistics, not twitch) character. Are you telling me you want to make it so an unarmed guy is going to have the same defense as a guy with a weapon in his hand just because of his skills? This isn't "Dancing with the Stars," haha.

    Let's be honest, UO could use some scaling. -15/-15 corpse skin at all levels? 70/90 "switch" specials for nearly every weapon special out there? I'm all for skill being more important. I'd also like to see gimp tactics like evil omen para and disarm go away. Neither should be legit PvP go-tos if you're 120 pure.
     
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  22. Phangs_of_Phage

    Phangs_of_Phage Journeyman

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    Disarm shouldnt be spammable. Niether should mortal. Moving shot should have a much higher hit chance penalty
     
    Sevin0oo0 likes this.
  23. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I suggest you should perhaps do some thinking before you vomit up your own particular prejudices all over Stratics. If you sit down and think about it, my suggestion, while weakening disarm overall, would ensure that it remained the strongest against exactly this kind of template - no tactics, low dex. And furthermore, I posted this after a battle with my old school dexxer. And guess what his primary weapon is? I'll make it easy for you - a warfork... ;)

    I actually find disarm a great deal less frustrating to deal with on Llewen (my tamer/mage) than I do on Dramme (my dexxer). A tamer/mage, or even a mage that is disarmed doesn't lose her or his primary means of offense - dexxers, archers and throwers do. And every character that uses a weapon and doesn't have wrestle loses it's primary means of defence against melee and missile attacks when disarmed, not just mages with mage weapons...