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Disco Tamer vrs Peace vrs Provo

Discussion in 'UO Tamer' started by JamezC, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. JamezC

    JamezC Journeyman
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    I’m rounding out my tamer and had a few questions.
    Some people run with 110/115 taming /lore is there a specific reason why these are popular numbers?

    I plan on using a variety of different pet setups, controlling a greater is important but not if I have to go to 120’s for it.

    My template so far is
    Taming
    Lore
    Vet
    Magery
    Eval
    Music
    Provo/or disco/ or peace

    Using Jewels and high mana regen and sacrificing resists allow me to have a viable suit and be able to put extra points into the template.
    My second question is which barding skill is most useful to somebody hunting?
    I’d assume disco because a lot of people use it, but I’m interested to hear if people use provo.

    My pets are trained and I’m hunting a wide variety of things.
    Any advice? I’ll eventually just have them all and soulstone whichever I’m not using, but for now I’d like to run with one until I get used to commanding a pet and barding at the same time.

    Thank you
    - James
     
  2. jeza

    jeza Journeyman
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    110/115 taming/lore is to be able to control any pet with at least 99% of success.

    Disco s by far the more usefull barding skill for hunting, peace is better for taming and I don't see provo being very useful on it's own.

    But to be honest i don't see how you'll manage such a template with skill levels high enough to be efficient.

    110 taming
    115 lore
    90 vet (no less, 100 would be better)

    100 magery
    100 eval
    And that's not a very powerful mage so it would be good to have a lot of SDI. You'll need a lot of mana regen and LMC too as you don't have med or anything else to help your mana pool.

    120 music
    120 disco
    Or it would be useless against big mobs, peerless and such.

    755 skill points.
    I know you can do a lot with imbuing, but adding SDI, Mana regen, 100% LRC, 40% LRC and all 70 resist is it really possible ?

    But that's just my opinion I may be wrong, if so I would like such a template too :)
     
  3. JamezC

    JamezC Journeyman
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    Thank you for the note on the control %s, why do people go above those numbers then?

    Also I'm completely wiling to sacrifice lrc and resists to utilize and help my pet more. Especially with imbuing now i can make suits for separate encounters. And i don't mind using regs because i barely cast anything but heal and invis and recall. So jewels and armor make up for the skill+ and the mods. When i find a suit with my mods that has the lrc and then the resists I'll take it in a second. But i don't have money

    As to provo versus disco wouldn't provo be more useful when dealing with crowds? I feel like disco is really good when your pets are attacking single opponents like a boss or something.

    Thank you again
    - James
     
  4. jeza

    jeza Journeyman
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    Well people get the 3x120 taming skills because it's easier to tame pets, you have a lot more of stable slots and you can rez your pets without failing.
    Plus the "fame" of being legendary tamer. It's so hard to raise taming to 120 it's really an accomplishment in my opinion.
    Or because they role play and want a "real" tamer and probably other reasons I'm not able to imagine ;)

    As to scarifying LRC and resists, well resist why not, your pet is supposed to have the aggro, not you.
    But it would be safer with a peace tamer because you would have more ways to make sure that you're not hit.

    As for the LRC, before the mods on the weapons/armors all mages were able to manage with reageants. But it wasn't easy. And when you die you loose your magery as you can't cast anything until you got more reagents.
    It's not something I want for myself but if you feel that you can manage then it's a problem less to solve :)

    As for dealing with crowds, IMO the most efficient is peacemaking.
    You can area peace to calm everybody for a second or two, send your pet against the strongest mob invis and then alternate between calming the other mobs one by one while casting invis in between to avoid being targeted.

    With provo of course the crowd fights itself but they respawn so it's harder to manage all the mobs at the same time.
    But I can be wrong as I know peacemaking but I never used provo except on the test shard.

    By the way, that would be a good idea, create your template on the test shard and see what it would cost to create the perfect suit for it and how you manage with the char in a fight .
     
  5. JamezC

    JamezC Journeyman
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    Thanks for the advice above, Something about playing on the test shard bothers me, i cant really explain it other than saying its like renting an apartment when i could just be making payments on a house, just irks me. I will however have to try it for certain templates that I'm dying to see.

    Even with all your help now i'm where i started off, not knowing which is the better of the the three skills to have, Though peace has come back into discussion now. What sorts of things do you hunt if you don't mind me asking?

    Thank you!
    - James
     
  6. jeza

    jeza Journeyman
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    Well i'm a classic peace tamer
    meaning I'm 3x 120 Taming (+ 17 ring/brace will be real one day) lore, vet
    98.5 magery going to 100
    110 music going to 120
    113 peace going to 120
    25 chiv (will use +5 on a ring or brace when needed) that i use mainly to remove curse

    With that and very well chosen pets I'm able to fight a lot.
    When I fight alone I try to avoid big crowds, but I manage when I have to.

    To farm money/items to unravel I go with ogre lords (normal and artic ones), WW, succubus, balrons, GD's, ancient Wrym, swoop ...

    With the appropriate pet it's easy :)

    When I want to go check a place where I never went before I usually go with my strongest Cu.
    I can ride to explore or escape and it's a good all around pet.
    Even when he's not really the most suited to fight his opponent, with 90 healing and almost 600 hp's he can survive long enough for me to save him most of the time. That's when peace helps more than disco or provo could.

    Of course maybe with disco my pet would have been able to kill the mob ?
    That's a skill I could see me trading for peace. I'll probably train it too and use a soulstone to switch between those.

    But provo is too "crowd depending", if you're faced with only one opponent it's completely useless.

    Peace doesn't really help to fight even if you can argue that it's easier to kill a calmed mob. But it helps a great deal to keep you alive.
    It's useful in a crowd as well as against a single opponent.
    It's only drawback is when faced with a mob that has high barding skill (160 or close) as you wont be able to calm it. Area peace will still work though, even if it's only for a second or two.

    Disco on the other hand really helps you fight and will work even with mobs having high level barding skills (close to 160).
    But it's not very useful to keep you alive or in a crowd when your pet is the only fighting.

    But it won't be the case for your char as you'll be fighting too.
    So in a crowd you weaken all the mobs you can beginning by the strongest or the casters. And then you set your pet on the hardest for you to kill, and try to manage all those who didn't aggro your pet first using paralyze, or fields and kill them. As they are weakened it's easier.

    That would be my tactic I guess...


    So it depends on the way you like to play. I'm more about staying on the safe side so I like peace ;)
     
  7. JamezC

    JamezC Journeyman
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    I like your style i do. I think the answer for me is just choosing one for now and building them all up so i can soulstone them, it doesn't seem like one is more valuable than another in all situations. Thank you!

    - James
     
  8. jeza

    jeza Journeyman
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    I'm glad that I could help :)


    Good luck with your template !
     
  9. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    i started out as a peace tamer.

    then i got into disco years ago and i have never gone back.
    i have it 120'd on a stone but i have never had a reason to take it back on my tamer.

    even when just taming to get pets i find it easier to disco the critter so they hit less hard rather then peacing.

    one reason is that once the disco is on its on, i dont have to waste time constantlly re-putting on peace.
    disco ya put it on (inflict it on them) and its on till your off screen or dead (them preferablly)

    and you readlly dont even need peace if you use disco.
    or so i find.
    cause with the -28 to the critters resistances and skills (-28% here) they die so fast that you wouldnt even need the peace.

    but thats just me.
    but id feel safe in saying that if you tryed them both out youd come to agree.
    NOW.
    that said, you can 120 peace in no time.
    120 disco is gonna take a week or 2.

    so if your lazy then go peace, definatlly.

    and i was looking above at the templates and i have to disagree with one thing that was said.
    you do not need Eval Intel on a tamer bard.
    you have a pet to deal damage, thats why your a tamer.
    why wasnt the template room putting eval on to cast a ebolt or 2.
    your pet will do the same damage in 2 seconds.

    its a waste in points IMHO
    your a tamer, embracer your tamerage.
    if ya wanna be a mage, be a mage.
    SDI is a mage thing.

    and plus then you have to get into the whole LMC, MR and then try to get med and focus on your template.... ughhhh!

    dont get me wrong.
    i have some tamer mages.
    and they work good.
    but mixing them dosnt.
    either your a bard tamer.... or a mage tamer.
    trying to get it all into one template is a constant battle that you wont win.

    and your right about the skill.
    i have a couple 120 tamers and i use them to tame.
    then all my other tamers i usually stop them at like GM or so then ring up to like 115 and same with animal lore.
    vet i keep at GM just for the stable room increase.
     
  10. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Mana regen doesn't help much with no med, unless you are human.
     
  11. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    Poo pretty much nailed it. But to add

    My tamer looks like(all REAL score):
    120 tame, lore, vet
    120 disco, music
    115 mage (waiting for that 20 mage)

    I've run this template for YEARS. It hasn't changed. Before disco I was a 120 peacer.

    120 tame makes taming easy... lore and vet does NOT effect your ability to tame. Mine are all 120 because of the additional stables spots.

    As mentioned, 110 tame and lore will control just about anything.

    I use magery to heal my pets, to recall around, AND for melee defense using a mage weapon(swords of prosp).
     
  12. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    This is what I usually end up with for "real" skills on my peace tamers:

    120 Musicianship
    120 Peacemaking
    120 Taming
    110 Lore
    110 Vet
    100 Magery
    40 Meditation

    They are almost all human characters. And yes, mana regen can become a problem that forces you to stuff as much MR and LMC on your gear as you possibly can, at the expense of other things like FC/FCR and Luck. However, because the character has no Evaluate Intelligence, I don't really consider it much of a mage. (I use Mind Blast spell a lot!) The GM magery is just there to help with gating and rezzing. I usually try to scroll magery to 110 and carry some + magery items to put on in a pinch, but have learned to expect to fizzle a few times when doing a rez.

    The reason I like to max out Peacemaking and Taming is so that eventually the character has total freedom for what goes on its jewelry and other skill boosting items. I'll often settle for 115 or even 110 Musicianship if a 120 scroll is too expensive. But I generally won't compromise on wanting 120 real Peacemaking and 120 Taming. 110 Animal Lore is needed in order to lore creatures that aren't tameable. I will also sometimes go with just 105 Vet skill, but if stable slots are filling up fast or the character is on a shard where I don't have a great connection, then I'll sacrifice some meditation skill to get it to 110 real.

    I hate having to do a jewelry/item swap just to be able to get pets in and out of the stable. I live with doing that sometimes while I'm training up a character, but eventually I just have to tell myself that a particular character only has X number of spots based on its real skill and that's the limit for that character. I guess I live in fear of losing a suit and being stuck in a bad situation with the wrong pet out of the stable and having to release it and retame it to shuffle stuff. Better to just clean out the stable slots and live with what real skill supports. Now I'm just trying to restrain myself and not use up the extra slots gained from purchasing the SA expansion. Am still hoping maybe another new tameable or two will show up in the near future.

    Edited to add: I like Gellor's template too and that may be what I'll do if I ever get motivated to really work on my one disco tamer. I can see where the higher magery would be nice to have. I rely on peacemaking to help keep my character out of trouble where tamers with other skills would probably use their magery and mage weapons. The one big problem with peacemaking though is learning when to not use it. Area peacing at the wrong time (because a directed peace just won't cut it because the mob is too difficult or there's too much spawn) can cause serious problems for other people in the same area because the spawn has a tendency to redirect its attention when the peacemaking wears off, pets sometimes stop fighting, and it drops dexxers out of war mode.
     
  13. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    You know you still love my peace tamers, Poo.

    :twak:
     
  14. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    ya know,

    it probablly wouldnt be so bad if i played with the sound on.
    cause then id know when you peace.

    cause you pull the pin on that peace grendade and all of a sudden everthing stops moving..... then of course whatever we are fighting targets me.
     
  15. Metalstorm

    Metalstorm Seasoned Veteran
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    I run the same template as Gellor.

    Skills are all real because I don't like relying on jewelery.

    Taming- 117.5 (slowly working it to 120)
    Lore - 120
    Vet- 120
    Music-100 (will be raised to 120 after disco & peace are finished)
    Disco- 116.4 (sloooolllyyy working it to 120)
    Magery- 120
    Peace (stoned-113.something. Eventually will be 120)

    I love this template.

    With swords of prosperity I hardly get swacked. I have many stable slots.
    Monsters die quick when discorded.

    When on a 'taming only' mission I usually swap vet with peacemaking.

    I also have hiding, stealth and herding stoned for those 'extra dangerous special' taming missions :)
     
  16. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    You could always try the enhanced client. You see pretty little blue notes wafting through the air above the back of the calmed monster.
     
  17. JamezC

    JamezC Journeyman
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    You know i've seen people talk about herding as useful but for the life of me cannot figure out why. Do you hunt mostly in groups or alone?

    Thank you
    - James
     
  18. jeza

    jeza Journeyman
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    Well i don't use it myself, too lazy to create a char for it :)

    But I can see how that could be very useful :
    You want a new rune beetle, a good one of course ;) So you go to beetlescape, run until you see one, invis, lore, don't like it... rinse and repeat until you find THE one you want.
    If you don't have peace to help, you probably are targeted more than once and have to escape to heal once or twice or even die in the process but you manage.

    Now your chosen pet is in the middle of 3 other beetles and 2 mages so you die 3 times trying to lore it away to a safe spot ...

    Or it's mostly alone, you tame it and just when it "recognizes you as it's master" two other beetles and a mage arrive and kill you and the beetle before you have time to gate to a safe place... :cursing:

    Or you use your hiding/stealth/herding/lore char to find the beetle and herd it to a really safe place where you'll be able to tame it and cast a gate to stable it safely (as much as it's possible when taming a rune beetle )

    See useful ;)

    Of course with peace and honor you can manage safely without the hiding stealth herding lore char.
    But honor is so long to raise with a tamer! How nice to be able to do without.
    And there's still a risk for your beetle once tamed until you manage to gate and leave. You won't be attacked but your beetle isn't protected.

    Lol ! now i'm wondering if I shouldn't look into that herding/hiding char :D
     
  19. IgorBR

    IgorBR Guest

    I find that 120 peace is lot more useless than 120 disco. I mean, 120 disco isnt useless at all, its just the best hunting skill to help a tamer.

    I cant see a tamer-bard going with Eval Int. I have a 5x120 (bard-tamer) with 110 Magery, no room for Eval, only if I stone vet.

    I think 110/115 is popular because of it's price and because it's easier to get those than 120. I go for 120 because I like the Legendary Tamer title. Still 7 points to do though.
     
  20. JamezC

    JamezC Journeyman
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    Fiddled with disco taming this morning on the test center. Disco is much more useful than peace if you're looking to down the enemies fast, and its most useful to help out your pet when fighting bigger game. Peace however seems to work wonders when a group gets in a jam, only helps for a few seconds but i did find it handy. And i have a weak spot for provo especially when fighting mobs. Not sure what i'll do. But Disco seems to be the best.

    Thank you
    - James
     

  21. This is a partial list of the heard able pets.



    The Bake Kitsune
    The Cu Sidhe
    The Dragon
    The Drake
    The Fire Beetle
    The Fire Steed
    The Frost Spider
    The Giant Beetle
    The Giant Spider
    The Greater Dragon
    The Greater Mongbat
    The Hell Hound
    The Large Hellcat
    The Small Hellcat
    The Hiryu
    The Imp
    The Ki-Rin
    The Lava Lizard
    The Lesser Hiryu
    The Mongbat
    The Nightmare
    The Reptalon
    The Rune Beetle
    The Scorpion
    The Slime
    The Unicorn
    The White Wyrm
    Chicken Lizard
    High Plains Boura
    Iron Beetle
    Raptor
    Ruddy Boura
    Skree
    Wolf Spider

    I am sure I missed a lot, but all tamable pets can be hearded. Just grab every dragon in the dungeon (8 - 10 - 15 what ever) at one time and move them out of the way. Then take back the one you want to tame back to the door. Don't even need to be the same type criter. Anything tamable can be moved all at the same time. Add lore and while your out there pick only the best to take back. No big hurry.

    Peace is best for tameing. Disco best for hunting. I see no reason to have provo on a tamer. Make just a bard for that.
     
  22. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    My usual tactic for getting the critter I want away from the crowd is to area peace and then, while in war mode, tap on the bar of the critter I want or fire off a spell at it. That makes it start following my character. Then I just start walking away and area peace as I go to keep everything else fairly motionless. The critter I want is also somewhat calmed but I keep poking at it by tapping its bar or firing off a spell. Eventually we get to an isolated spot and hopefully everything else has remained behind. The trickiest part about it sometimes is remembering to get out of war mode if I have to dismount and remount (usually am on a nightmare) to use my pet to kill off any smaller critters that refuse to get the hint they're not wanted at my little private taming party. (One of these days I'll figure out how to squeeze into my already crowded list of macros for my tamers a macro to remount a pet that ignores if you're in war mode. LOL)
     
  23. JamezC

    JamezC Journeyman
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    Can you heard aggressive monster without being eaten?
    I just always assumed this couldn't be useful against bigger creatures

    Thank you
    - james
     
  24. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Remember - soulstones are your friend ;) You can swap between peace and disco straight away now so I'd say soulstone peace and train up disco.

    Also, if you're considering a dual bard skill template, I think they work really well if you have say a targeted skill (peace or disco) coupled with disco for crowd control. Provo enables you to support your pet by provoking a group of spawn on itself or provoke smaller spawn onto the big spawn. It also means you can work without pets if necessary too.

    I wouldn't have eval on a bard tamer unless I really wanted to cast offensively. But again, I'd soulstone it off for situations where I might want it - eg for para taming plain cu sidhe to work the spawn.

    Wenchy
     
  25. JamezC

    JamezC Journeyman
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    Soulstones are your friend if you can afford them. I'm one of those 1% that have like, less than 5 mil. I'll get them eventually and i'll love them but for the time being i need to choose one. Is peace really that much easier to train than Disco? And is it not worth having any of these if they're not 120?

    Thank you
    - James
     
  26. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I think you'll find there are more of us around than you think. I rarely have more than 5 mil loose gold on all my characters combined, and that is two accounts. Maybe some day I will, but up 'til now I tend to spend it as fast as I get it, and it's not often that I spend more than one mil on any one item.
     
  27. jeza

    jeza Journeyman
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    Same here. 9 chars on 2 accounts and only 2 good money makers.
    If I have 3 millions total I would be surprised :)
     
  28. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Yeah, I never have more than 3 mil gold unless I'm saving up so guess we're all skint then :D I only keep a couple of soulstones per account, one of the originals we got and one vet reward.

    If you can't use a soulstone, then I'd suggest test centre if you're going to be dropping a lot of skill points. I didn't find peace faster tbh, I can't say that I've noticed a huge speed difference training up the various bard skills. Music goes at rocket speed, but the other 3 are slow.

    As for which skill is better, personally I think disco is more versatile than peace, so that would be my first choice.

    You can do real skill + items to get to 120, but the lower your skill, the fewer beasts you'll be able to bard. If you check out the barding difficulty page here on Stratics, you'll be able to see what your chances are against the various monsters.

    Wenchy
     
  29. Well basically if they can't see you that can't kill you. I think dragging All the beetles in beetle scape (roughly 16) could be dangerous.
    You move them all away taking only the best to be tamed. But only things that can be tamed can be moved.
     
  30. JamezC

    JamezC Journeyman
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    This may be a stupid question, but are you saying you are using hiding/stealth with herding?

    - James
     
  31. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Stealth/herder ftw! A very fun toon, indeed.
     
  32. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Yes, a stealth herder is indeed a fun toon. Not sure I'd want to actually do any taming with one because they have little to offer in offensive capabilities, but they can be handy for extracting something from a crowd.

    As noted earlier, you can only herd tameable animals and your character's pets. You can't herd them through a dungeon entrance or moongate though.

    Here's a screenshot of a GD walking a tightrope. (It was a wild one that I found one day near Grimswind. I couldn't resist the urge to take it for a walk.)

    [​IMG]
     
  33. JamezC

    JamezC Journeyman
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    That is amazing indeed, thank you for that i'll certainly be trying out herding now!
    - James
     
  34. grandpa otis

    grandpa otis Guest

    Stealth/herder/tamer works well to drag the fire beetle to the entrance of mines to tame so as to only have to deal with the lowly ellies,,, I use my stealth/HIgh Honor/Tamer to find and tame my critters and use my bard/tamer to train/fight....My bard tamer will never be good enuff for successful pvp or the very top end of the bosses solo but I like my set-up for great all round hunting....I use a mark of travesty, a Tome of lost knowledge, and a library tallie to get the +15 Lore. +15 tame, +15 magery, I then have a brace with +13 tame, +13 magery,+10 vet, and several rings,,, one on him now has music+13,disc_13,voke+13,,, my skill lvls are : real and twinked
    tame 92..........120
    lore 105..........120
    vet 110..........120
    magery 92.......120
    music 107........120
    disco 107........120
    voke 107........120
    total 720....... 840 any 107 skill can be swapped out without changing anything except the ring ,,,,I currently have stoned for this guy,,, peace 107, medi. 107, eval 107, anat 107, tact 107, so I have a LOT of options,, i sometimes run him as pure mage/tamer by stoning all 3 of the bard 107 skills and adding the medi, eval, and anat,, any skill u like will fit,,,,,,,as I say not the most powerful temp but very versatile....
    my suit with the items/jewelry is phys resist 85(I like to run with 85 so I can have protection cast to do emergency recall or invis and not be disrupted and still be 70/70/70/70/70/70 with , 100LRC, ..+62 mana/int..MR 4..HPR+3..LMC40% and having stats of 25 dex,,115 str,,,187 mana as elf.
    as u can see this is the cheap version as none of the imbued mods are 100% intensity,,
    You power gamers be nice when critiquing my post,, remember I'm an old, old man.
     
  35. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    I love that! I hope that made screenshot of the day sometime, if not, it should be submitted.

    And Sir otis, while I'm not an elite power gamer by any stretch of the imagination, I'm a happy and experienced tamer, and I think you have done quite well for yourself. :)