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Discussion on Character Copy to Siege

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Lady Michelle, Jun 16, 2014.

  1. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    I was thinking how would you all feel if you could character copy 1 character 1 time only to Siege. Plus there would be things you can and cannot bring over.
    No EM items, no blessed deeds, or blessed items that would give you more than the 1 siege blessed item.
    Only thing at the moment I would bring over is deco stuff
    * yes this would take a second slot would be 1 time slot only so think wisely on what character you would copy over*
    and what character would you copy over if you could.
    I think I would copy my crafter over

    Oh and add to the lists of what you would want and not want bought over.
     
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  2. Dust_Priest

    Dust_Priest Adventurer

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    First off, Lady Michelle, I'd like to say that I find this an interesting proposition, with good potential to attract experienced players. It could even provide incentive to new, and old players to come try Siege Perilous after "getting their feet wet" on another shard.

    How would this work, would the option to copy a character to Siege Perilous only activate once the player has a character on another shard that has achieved a certain amount of time played on a character, or would it be based off the skill-level of the character? Would you have to already have a character created on Siege (maybe for a certain period of time?) in order to get the second slot? If someone copied a character to Siege without checking if they had already created a character here would they only get the usual one slot?

    With your experience on Siege choosing a crafter, I would have to agree. From my experience on Chesapeake, I remember animal taming, and resisting spells taking considerably longer time to reach Grandmaster level compared to spell-casting or combat skills. However, my being unaware of the rate over time skill-gain system featured on this shard, it makes me wonder to how skills are impacted. It would seem the system potentially balances skill gains between all of the skills, for instance a weapon-based or melee skill would take longer than on an average shard, whereas animal taming could be a good deal faster. Either which way, I still believe a crafter would be my first choice as well; or maybe an archer/resource gatherer.

    When it comes to what items are allowed, when you say "no blessed deeds," do you mean commodity deeds, bulk order deeds, bank checks, and things of that nature? Some folks may be more comfortable arriving to a new shard with money in their pocket or crafting materials. When it comes to blessed items and the like, maybe when one transfers a character over, Siege would automatically clear blessing from all items that would either, A. Not normally be blessed without a deed, B. Not fall under the "basic" clothing category, C. Just not be blessed on Siege. All "basic" clothing being anything that is equipped in a clothing slot with no stats, excluding vet-reward 3% resist items of course, ruling out blessed Crimson Cinctures, Tangles, or whatever else.

    However, understanding that Siege is an advanced play-set community, maybe the ability to copy over a skilled character would be enough in its own.
     
  3. WhiteWitch

    WhiteWitch Journeyman

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    MUCH easier to skill up on Siege, so Id not bother
     
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  4. Dust_Priest

    Dust_Priest Adventurer

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    Well, that's cool.

    Although it's still kind of a cool idea, at least players would be able to have a crafter, or back-up character; but understanding the tight-nit community though, it's unique to have just the one character. Because as many of you have mentioned before, it pretty much causes you live by your reputation.
     
  5. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    First, I would like Devs to allow 2 char slots on Siege, as it is very hard to make it here with only one char and only one account.
    Second, I am worried for char transfer, special if it is allowed to bring some items to Siege. Could easy be abused.
    One think people miss are their vet rewards, I think they should be allowed to bring max 5 of them and maybe 5 soulstones.
    About deco items, think a limit count of 5 Holidays items would be ok.
    No gold should be allowed and no community deeds.
     
  6. Wolfman

    Wolfman Seasoned Veteran
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    My opinion:
    Character copy: Yes!
    Bring items: No! (No gold, nothing, bare ass naked)

    I doubt that it would be possible though since any questions in that direction have been answered with not possible due to the different type of server Siege is.
     
  7. tangar

    tangar Journeyman
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    :yell:
    I against it.
    It would ruin beautiful newbie time at Siege. Also its not fair for people who put in character progression a lot of time.

    <sarcasm on>
    May be lets just give every new person at SP 10005000 gold and 10 naked girls, may be then people would start to play here..
    </sarcasm off>

    Its strange that there are so many casual suggestions for Siege. Guys! People wouldn't come to Siege if you make it easy. There are loads of easy servers around, even really populated servers, like Atlantic. We dont need to destroy Siege Perilous features, we have to save than and ADVERT them to players from other servers who bored of "pinky-pony UO"
    :mylittlepony:

    When people who played UO several years and have _anything_ at their servers, starts again at SP from "tabula rasa".. Its like new life. Dont take it away.
     
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  8. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    was talking about the item blessed deeds from the turn in rewards.
     
  9. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    :eek: only 5 holiday deco items? lol
     
  10. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
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    I am against this idea.

    Training from scratch is part of Siege. Everyone has to go through it. You either have to join a guild to help you out, start new characters with some buddies and help each other out, or try to go it on your own, all the while learning who is who on the shard. It forces interaction. Instead of like other shards where most people treat them like single player games with a glorified chat room. (This is also the reason I am against having a 2nd character. Then again, I'm also for deleting every single Soulstone on the shard. You should have to choose who you are and then make connection with people that have skills that you don't. But that's just me.)
     
  11. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I don't think it would work. You don't build characters the same way on other shards, or at least I don't.
    On Europa my characters are built knowing that I have a whole family of characters to support them, that I don't have to worry about losing my armor etc, that I can build skills into my suit and not worry about not having them available when I need them. My Siege chars are built quite differently.
     
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  12. Amber Witch

    Amber Witch Slightly Crazed
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    This states how I think but better than I could state it.
     
  13. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Sorry, Lady Michelle. I agree with Chad and Petra's points about building characters and how Siege's unique rules require you to interact and be more reliant on other players on the shard versus other shards where you can have more characters. I also think being allowed to bring over items from other shards, no matter what they are, could really destabilize the economy.

    I'm also not too sure that this is even possible without a ton of work by the dev team. Back a few years ago when the arenas were in development, there was a test shard to which you could copy your characters. I asked Supreem, who was lead engineer at the time, if there was any way that character copy could be modified to allow people to copy their characters on Siege and Mugen to that test shard. His response was that there were too many differences to make it feasible. I would imagine that the reverse situation would also be very difficult to program as well. Think of all the little differences there are just with simple things like the nonblessed status of most spell books, tool uses and usage. And what about items such as clothing and weapons that have been blessed? I'm not sure how difficult it would be to program to have all the wide variety of items that could be blessed in one way or another on a regular shard become "unblessed." There's also all the holiday and anniversary items that we've received in recent years on regular shards that aren't blessed and can't be insured. When we got those items on Siege, at least you could Siege-bless them. So someone moving the same item from a regular shard over to Siege would expect it to be "Siege-blessable," but perhaps the devs overlooked it. So when someone loses it on Siege because they can't Siege-bless it, there could be lots of crying that didn't need to happen.

    Then there is the difference with arms lore. How long would it take before people started crying that their armor or weapons with the lower DI or resists from a regular shard should be beefed up to Siege/Mugen standards?

    There are other things too that would have to be "fixed" with a character copy to Siege, e.g., runes that are marked to go to Trammel. Those runes would probably work fine on Mugen because it has that landmass, but Siege does not. Move over a crystal portal or a corrupted crystal portal. Hmmm....are the ones on Siege actually programmed differently than the ones used elsewhere, including on Mugen, because of the missing Trammel landmass?

    Would it really be worthwhile to ask the devs to fine tune the character copy system? I don't spend a ton of time on Siege these days. However, I spent 99% of my playing time on Siege during the year or so that I was getting five characters trained up and a couple of houses fitted out to meet their needs. Now I don't spend anywhere near that amount of time on Siege because the hard work of training and getting a toe hold on Siege is done. If I'd managed to get a thriving shop going, maybe I would be spending more time on Siege today. But my point here is that if I'd had the option to character copy finished or even half-trained characters to Siege along with some items, especially gold, crafting resources, LRC suits, I would have missed out on meeting and interacting with a lot of people. I already tend to be a bit of a loner and as self-sufficient as possible. Those tendencies would have been even more magnified with a character copy option and I really think it would have cheapened my whole adventure of settling in on Siege.

    Anyway, those are my random, disjointed thoughts on the issue, for whatever they are worth.
     
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  14. Dust_Priest

    Dust_Priest Adventurer

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    Those are all good points to what actually makes Siege what it is, I think reading that helps me personally understand the revolutionary concept of what Siege is. I agree with statements y'all folks made, from newbie-time - raising a character from scratch, deleting soulstones, the different and unique character templates used on Siege, and essentially all the hard-work people put in to thinking out their characters, interacting with people - not treating it like "a single player game with a glorified chat room," and all the different coded mechanics all the developers put into making the Siege the largely diversified cipher it is. Its good to get opinions, and ideas out there though just to visit different parts of the desert; if you never explore outside the camp, you may never find the oasis.
     
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  15. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I guess another point that should be raised here also is whether character copy from Siege or Mugen would need to be allowed to regular shards as well, just for fairness' sake. Someone who has played pretty much exclusively on Siege for many years might have a hankering to check out something on a "regular" shard with a fully developed character but without going through all the work and expense of training one up on said shard.

    Is that really the direction many people would like things to go after all these years? I know that when I started playing on Siege a few years ago, it was because I was almost ready to quit. Playing on Siege did help me stick around for a while as I was getting my Siege characters going. And although I don't play there much today, I can say that if I hadn't given it a try, I probably wouldn't be playing UO at all by now. I wonder how many other people there are playing on regular shards who have never played on Siege who kind of have the thought of playing there tucked away as one of the last things on their UO "to do" list? How many of them might feel cheated out of that plan if all of a sudden Siege/Mugen go into "easy mode"?
     
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  16. Luka Melehan

    Luka Melehan Certifiable
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    First I want to say that I love how creative your mind is in thinking out ideas that could bring more people to Siege. I love and appreciate it.

    In this case I have to say that it was my newbie experience that taught me much about surviving on this shard. When I put skills on my character now, its based on what I am going to be doing and what kind of risk factor I am predicting. PvMing, for example, means awareness of and being prepared for Pks and Thieves. If I am going to an event, I go with the expectation of being killed, and dress in a way to get some play in before my death. And of course, carry some things to give the thieves a chuckle but nothing that would make me sad to lose. Extra gear is stashed somewhere accessible. This plan comes from experience, gameplay and forums interaction. If I have been given the mechanics for free, I would not have learned so many things, and would probably not still be here now.

    I do see that this does nothing to help others want to come to Siege. Maybe I should write a paper something. LOL
     
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  17. Troop

    Troop Sage
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    Very much opposed to the ability to bring anything on or off the shard. I would not have a problem with the character copy option if there were strict limits imposed.
     
  18. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Slightly Crazed
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    Agrees with Morgan
     
  19. tangar

    tangar Journeyman
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    Deleting soulstones.. It like proposal to delete multi-accounts. Quite useless thing. Better to make soulstones fragments cheaper to make it possible for new players to use them.. I'll write about it more and create a poll later hehe
     
  20. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
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    I broached this with Cal when he was in charge of UO a few ago. Basically after going back and forth with him and with Cal supporting the whole idea, the developers said it wasn't possible. The would need to rewrite the code of the game as they created Siege Perilous to be completely separate from production UO and the two were not compatable.
     
  21. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    Possible or not, transfers to or from Siege should never enter the game. Exploits WILL be found.

    So far, we´ve been protected from all the crap that has happened to prodo shards via this system and I´d like it to stay that way.
     
  22. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    Training on siege the way it is, as stated by many, is a way of siege and brining a trained char over is just ludicris.

    Nice try on a way to bring items in thow, very clever trick on a way to get item transferred in, what is to stop me from doing this 100 times and brining almost everything I own on ATL here to siege.

    BAD IDEA SORRY.
     
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  23. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    I did ask
    I was thinking how would you all feel if you could character copy.
    Players who posted against this, who also said sorry don't ever feel sorry, because you have nothing to feel sorry for it is how you feel.
    I like to thank you all for saying why you were against it also when you could of said no left it at that. I learned a lot about how Siege is, and how it works from others who said can't be done also thank you.
     
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  24. WhiteWitch

    WhiteWitch Journeyman

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    In the end anything that is a "short cut" rather defeats the point of Siege.

    Maybe making things easier would bring more players to Siege, but do you really want to be surrounded by the sort of players that want it all easy?

    My principle reason for leaving WoW earlier this year was their introduction of "free level 90 char for pre ordering new expansion"(90 is highest level),this expansion is set for Dec this year I think, I found this a real slap in the face as I had to work very hard on a PvP server to make it to 90 and took endless gankings on my way up from people so many times higher level I had no chance, but I stayed going and eventually made it.

    Now of course not all people share this ethos of "earning something", and that's fair enough, but the effect is greater than this, before long I find myself surrounded by these people at the same level as me who didn't have to work for it, and these people have the mindset of not having to work for anything.
    I was at PvP battlegrounds and in my team of 10 there are 3 or 4 of these newly minted 90s who have no idea how to play and are openly saying on main that they are just there for honour points for gear and have no intention of even playing the battle, leaving me in a team of 6 vs an enemy team of 10 and fighting a losing battle whilst watching "fast loss please","let them win" etc from these fake 90s at our base doing nothing.

    It was not long before the forums were full of people who got their free level 90 complaining that these free 90s should also have the top gear and it annoys them that they have to now work(ie AFK at battlegrounds) to get that.

    In the end giving people stuff on a platter probably sold a lot of expansions for them, but I firmly believe that in the long run they lose long time players and they erode the whole point of playing at all, the integrity of the game goes out the window and all that remains are a load of lazy people complaining they have to actually play the game to get things.

    OK that's maybe more of a rant than I planned but my point is in there somewhere lol
     
  25. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Tangar, I understand what you want but there are not enough players who agree and it would be the death of Siege.
    I really believe it is time for more char slots and I don't think it will hurt as much as you fear. It will only bring more RP chars instead of a PvP'er with crafting skills on stone or a crafter with PvP skills on stones.
    It is a RP game, and I feel players should be allowed to play different roles. Tina Tink do have mage skills on stone but she don't reallty feel like killing monsters or fight players. Freja is to lasy to craft, she rather kill some monsters to get Tina some resources or look for some PvP.
    Most hate switching skills all the time. Not much RP in, "wait, I need to switch to my PvP skills and gear"
     
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  26. The Old Man

    The Old Man Journeyman
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    I think Transferring anything TO Siege would probably a bad ideaa for the reasons others have already given.

    However char transfer OFF of Siege is another matter!

    I have spoken in the past to a couple of players who grew tired of Siege and left UO because they could'nt stand the thought of starting from zero on a prod shard.

    It could help attract a few more players to Siege. Knowing that the investment of time and RL money (for soul stones, raised beds etc) would not be lost if they decided that they did'nt want to make Siege a permanent home.

    It would move gold away from Siege, thus helping the economy.

    It would be a LOT simpler to code compared to xfer to Siege (few special cases).

    Just allowing toon, gold, pets, vet rewards and store bought items would cover most benefits (and bring to market all the other stuff the transferer owned).
     
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  27. WhiteWitch

    WhiteWitch Journeyman

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    2 char slots would not be a terrible idea considering we already subvert that limitation by the use of soul stones, essentially destroying the reason for the single char limit on siege, really the only reason I still also play on prod shards is I have a lot more characters which allow me to do a lot more things.

    If they are serious about the char limit to encourage co operation, they should not have allowed soul stones on Siege.
     
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  28. Sprago

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    im against the idea
    i think its easy enough to raise a character here there is no need to bring items or charaters here from prodo shards
     
  29. York_Siege

    York_Siege Seasoned Veteran

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    Second character - Maybe... it would be nice but I think if i had another character i might not meet as many people.
    Character Copy/transfer - No... Siege has a stable economy because nothing from another shard (Atlantic) did not corrupt it like it has every other shard. I would leave if character copy/transfer was brought to Siege.

    Whatever happened to building a character ...... Actually playing the game?
     
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  30. FrejaSP

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    No no, you can never escape Siege again :p
     
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  31. Kattasrophe

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    I think Lady Michelle had a good idea to start with, its just that It would not work for Siege. I can remember around Christmas time I had logged onto Atlantic for a moment to give away one of my presents I got on there to a friend, I looked in general chat and I saw that they were going to have to reboot the shard or something, and erase anything that was given with in a few days because of duping, I think that if we had characters to be able to come here with stuff, there would be a chance we would get some bad people in the mix that dupe. I don't think Siege needs that heh. I'm not totally disagreeing with the idea. I just think its not a completely great one.
     
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  32. Victim of Siege

    Victim of Siege Crazed Zealot
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    with advanced character, and mythic tokens, and them being available for gold from several folks on the shard
     
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  33. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    I could support a character transfer with soulstones, but absolutely no items or gold at all.
     
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  34. Dust_Priest

    Dust_Priest Adventurer

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    So I called up the captain, please bring me my wine. He said, "we haven't had that spirit here since 1969."

    Mirrors on the ceiling, pink Champaign on ice. She said, "we are all just prisoners here of our own device."
     
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