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(Question) Discussion on insurance trolls on

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Pendragon, Dec 5, 2013.

  1. Pendragon

    Pendragon Journeyman

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    So IVe heared alot of poeple tout they like siege because no insurance, There in life is many different types of insurance care home house etc, even insurance if your car breaks down it will get fixed.
    so people on siege ive heard say insurance on prodo sucks we dont have it here yay!

    Yet alot of people on siege have Hide stealth and stay hidden fight hidden in dungeons, or stay in there houses, or only fight 10-1, this i look at as a form of insurance, you are insuring that by hiding and stealthing you can almost always run away and not die and loose your precious loot,

    I thought this was an interesting oxy moron and wanted to see what people thought about the I love our no insurance shard yet i insure i will mostly never loose my suit.
    Regards your lover pendragon
     
  2. Xug

    Xug Journeyman

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    You clearly don't leave you Luna house enough to find people to kill. There are plenty of people farming throughout the entire day on Siege. Just ask Diablo and Tru about losing their suits :)

    - A Ghost
     
  3. Luka Melehan

    Luka Melehan Certifiable
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    I have some random thoughts. Six or seven years ago when I came to SP, PKs would run routes through the farming areas. I loved it, looking back over my shoulder all the time. I started out running, then learned to prolong the encounter a few minutes before they killed me. I learned to watch my pack for disappearing items when I was in the Abyss. Never could get a hit on those guys but I loved trying. I used to have stalkers who would hide in my house and wait for me. I loved it! Any PK could do that to me any day. I don't hide where I live. I like participating with you guys. However, I am not an uber player. I don't have much gold. I do know how to make gold now, but with RL, I don't have time to put in that kind of time. Not having insurance levels the playing field a bit. I allows for players to be more creative in what they wear and why. And losing suits promotes the player economy, which in turn promotes community.
     
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  4. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Slightly Crazed
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    Well - insurance would be OK with me as long as there is no trammel.
     
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  5. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    Did you just say you want Hide Stealth removed from Siege ?:pirate:
     
  6. Spiffykeen

    Spiffykeen Seasoned Veteran
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    If Talia can't stealth, she says she's burnin down that new dungeon yer all huntin in.... She's got the wood to pull it off...
     
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  7. Barania

    Barania Slightly Crazed
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    This thread is way over the top. How one can equate stealth and hiding on Siege Perilous to insurance is mind numbing.

    Jack Nickelson
     
  8. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Stealth and hiding is a "way of life" for many here - on lots of different templates. You take away the ability to stealth, especially in dungeons, and you probably lose even more people.... And Siege can't afford to lose a lot of people.
     
    #8 startle, Dec 5, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2013
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  9. Pendragon

    Pendragon Journeyman

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    Sure, that would work
     
  10. Bo Bo

    Bo Bo Lore Keeper
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    Bo suggested years ago that insurance would actually keep alot of people here. Most people who wear good stuff hate losing there suits. Bo doesnt believe people who say they would leave if there was insurance. Insurance at this point in time would hurt very few, and we would gain more than we would lose. More people are here for the attackablity factor, the ability to be attacked or attack anyone anywhere outside of the gz.
    And to hide stealth is way overpowered on siege, it is like having insurance. There should be passive reveal on siege, just like on prodo.
     
  11. Troop

    Troop Sage
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    Insurance would kill a lot of the need for crafting I bet.
     
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  12. Bo Bo

    Bo Bo Lore Keeper
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    Wrong it would help the crafters. Right now not many use crafted gear, hell maybe a piece or two, but most use shame loots.
     
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  13. MANSBETH

    MANSBETH Seasoned Veteran

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    I don't mind more insurance.
    Perhaps more than one item?
    I kinda have to agree with Bo and the Dr.
     
  14. Pendragon

    Pendragon Journeyman

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    I look at siege as a attempted throwback to pre trammel. When i started this game you grabbed a crappy suit even npc made bag of reags went out killing u eventually got better suit kept that and the suits circulate like the circle of life, you get better suits you loose em you get better suits you loose em. that would be my eutopia on siege. less item based. more skill based
     
  15. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    I'd definitely play more on Siege if I could insure my gear. Maybe they could limit the amount of items that could be insured at once. Maybe 10 items at a time. This should cover a suit + jewels etc.

    Not all items as this would ruin it for thieves. Seeing as they can't steal items being worn I can't see it changing much for them.
     
  16. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Sounds like a comment from someone who doesn't have/use a stealther to me. Stealth is not overpowered on Siege, stealth is - in fact - quite perfect for Siege. You want to compare this with prodo, then you have to include everything else that is different between Siege and prodo - not one single thing like what you'd have us believe stealth being overpowered on Siege is.... Sounds a lot like you want to nerf someone else's template simply because you don't use it, and I find that - at the very least - tedious.
     
  17. Barania

    Barania Slightly Crazed
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    You have to be kidding...I'd cancel 3 accounts in a nanosecond. If this place ever got insurance there would be no point for a crafter to ever log on again.

    Jack Nickelson
     
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  18. Bo Bo

    Bo Bo Lore Keeper
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    you are so wrong it isnt even funny. Bo knows stealth and uses it, and knows how overpowered it actually is. You and all your friends cant kill 1 person if they know how to use hide stealth properly Bo doesnt care what temps you run. The only time Bo ever dies when running stealth is when Bo makes a mistake. As for Barania Bo guesses that crafters are useless on prodo than?? Funny everytime Bo logs onto a prodo shard Bo hears people looking for crafters and crafted gear. Right now Idicos vendor prolly does more business than any crafters on the shard. And he sells all non crafted gear.
     
  19. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    There are 25 other shards to play for those who wants insurance.
     
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  20. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Slightly Crazed
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    We have insurance now - it is called buybacks.

    and

    If we did ever get insurance on Siege it would be like 10 times more expensive, and after a while everybody would then complain that it was way too expensive.
     
  21. Pendragon

    Pendragon Journeyman

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    We have insurance on siege, its called stealth hide, its a different form of insurance but it is used to insure you dont loose your stuff, as bo previously said i believe he said it better then i could ever have said it, i think people convince themself its not, but its a form of insuring.
     
  22. Pendragon

    Pendragon Journeyman

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    OR simply use stealth hide like many people do oin siege as there insurance. so that makes it what 26 shards? ph wait 27 count mungen or whatever it is
     
  23. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    I agree with upping the insurance list

    A player should be able to wear 3 insured items, however 2 of these 3 items must be PLAYER CRAFTED. Furthermore, the crafter is the one who insures the item.

    There really is no point to having a crafter on siege perilous, it's worthless. Anybody can get better throwaway gear through farming. And throwaway armor is best, because most people, including noobies, are going to lose their gear to pkers.

    Having a complete lack of crafters and resource gathers is holding the shard back, big time!!!!!!!!!!! There's no economy without the crafters and resource gathers. And crafters don't want to craft publicly, since there's no profit involved, and gear gets thrownaway through the fel ruleset. What's the point in making a suit, to lose it in a simple lag spike?

    Also there should be a revamp to the craftable items, armors, and weapons. In my opinion, player created gear, weapons, and armors, should be top tier level, at a high cost and time sink. Faction items and rare loots should be lesser tier than player created stuff.

    Give control back to the crafters, the players, not the NPCs. Players run the shard, not the outdated ruleset. So let players have the control.
     
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  24. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    To me, saying that stealth is a form of insurance would also mean that being a great PvPer is a form of insurance cuz both have a better chance at keeping their stuff...
     
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  25. Bo Bo

    Bo Bo Lore Keeper
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    Why do you think bo runs stealth hide, it doubles bo's chance at keepin bo's stuff.
     
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  26. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    I hope this isn't about losing options. This about promoting and adding them. If players felt more comfortable going out and having fun, the point would be moot. People remember pre-AoS as crafters making a decent suit and it was common. Personally, I preferred Power/Vanq so I hunted things for it. People stealthed then too.

    Players need access to prodo level items. Playing this game should be about collecting them.

    Everything is operating at quarter speed. The level of gear. The economy. The in game community engagement. And it requires a full time work weeks worth of effort to accomplish this. It's a problem.

    Yay.
     
    #24 Draxous, Dec 6, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  27. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    No. This idea is unproductive. Siege is modeled around an idea. This violates that. Please find something else that builds it up, not tears it down. Thanks.
     
  28. MANSBETH

    MANSBETH Seasoned Veteran

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    Debate is a good thing.
    No one is arguing. Feedback is an important part of development.
    Siege is Great. Sometimes change is a good thing. Everything evolves or dies.
    Great topic. The more feedback the better!
     
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  29. MANSBETH

    MANSBETH Seasoned Veteran

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    Debate is a good thing.
    No one is arguing. Feedback is an important part of development.
    Siege is Great. Sometimes change is a good thing. Everything evolves or dies.
    Great topic. The more feedback the better!
     
  30. Pendragon

    Pendragon Journeyman

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    Yea i agree Mansbeth, my main point of this topic was to get people thinking. i remember the days of starting with a crappy suit and fighting until i could get a better suit had no option of keeping it, i don't remember stealthing and hiding being so used then either, so it was kinda a circle of life, some-days you lost some-days you won but you weren't afraid to go out there and loose your stuff,
     
  31. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    Let's go with two insured items then, one of anything and the other of a legendary crafted item. Crafters should have control of this second insured item, and have lots of options for it. That seems like a compromise for the loot loss problem.

    However, in exchange for this extra security, I think we should buff stealing, snooping, and thieves. Thieves should be able to steal equipped rings and bracelets. Thieves should also be able to steal gold from players based on a total amount of gold owned. So if you own millions, and a thief picks your pockets, then the thief should potentially make 10k to 50k gold, by stealing from other players.

    Lastly, we should have pking, pvp, and theft in public houses. But in exchange for this extra risk, public player houses should be buffed, include more options, and give reasons for players to visit them. For example, we could put NPC vendors into houses, that sell cheaper goods than town NPCs, and also buy some items from players.

    This will give something for everybody. It will appeal to the people who want more security, by adding another insure slot. It will appeal to the crafters, by giving them more power. It will appeal to the thieves, and free pvp players, who enjoy the risk. It will appeal to public housing, by giving players a reason to leave guard zones. It will also add more excitement to the shard, because choosing a public house, will actually be more aligned with the original ultima online ruleset, where people died in their own houses all the time, or on the way to their houses.


    Here are some major changes that need to be addressed since the onset of ultima online.

    #1 the economy is broken, because vet players have all the wealth, literally billions of gold which doesn't get circulated. Because all the vets can do whatever they want, and don't really have an inclination to welcome and invite new players. In fact, most vets are outright hostile to newcomers. This is because newcomers have an uphill battle ahead, or worse, a vertical cliff to climb up. It's nearly impossible for a new player to dedicate to siege shard, due to the hardcore nature of it. This means that siege usually gathers already experienced ultima online players, not the newbies.

    #2 the pvp is not original. The original ultima online game, you could lose your house, you could get scammed all the time, for almost all your net worth. You could die anywhere and everywhere. Stuff was easy to steal. This game was a free for all for "bad" behavior. And that is part of the reason I came back to ultima online. Or the main reason. Or the ONLY reason. I like that sense of risk. There was no insured slots. There was no secure house trades. There were no player vendors. There was nothing, only players, only creativity, where ingenuity counted most. I'd like to return to this, and promote that, as much as possible. But it's hard to let go of acquired security. That usually means losing your assets.

    That goes back to #1. Who has stuff to lose? The vets, and only the vets, who sit on billions. Newbies have nothing to lose, and nothing to gain.

    #3 Utlima online has become a gear based game. That's bad. The gear is too versatile. Original ultima online was skill based, not gear based. If somebody had 100 swordsmanship, then this person was a badass. Go buy a katana or longsword from the NPC blacksmith, and start pwning noobs. That's all it took. But skill gain was RIDICULOUSLY tedious and challenging. This was back before macros. Where you had to put in a lot of time to raise your skills. Siege still has that aspect of a time sink in raising skills, which I think is a good thing. But the skill and gear system is somewhat broken. On siege, it should be much more conducive to newbies.


    I don't know what else to add, really. There's not much that can be done outright to siege. This shard is all about the community. So the whole community really needs to be on board with changes and ideas. That's just the beginning. After agreements are met, then maybe, some game masters and event coordinators, we can appeal to them.

    This is not a complaint, by the way, just a list of ideas. I'm actually pretty happy with my time spent on siege.
     
  32. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Hiding or numbers aren't 100% insurance. They just give you an advantage. You still have to earn it.
     
  33. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Hey Bo, of all the places to argue against people using hiding/stealth - you picked the absolute worse. Trying to argue against stealth on Siege is a serious waste of your time.... I'm not trying to be negative or mean, but come on! You can't be serious? Hell man, even half the pk's use it either part time or permanently...
     
    #28 startle, Dec 7, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  34. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Please never allow Insurance on Siege. It will hurt Siege a lot, as the risk for getting looting help building the community and help keeping the crafters busy. I would not mind losing the Siege Bless too, that would allow crafters to sell a lot more weapon.

    We tried once having blessed 7th Anniversary items blessed, that was really bad. Blessed spellbooks without mods, community deeds and deco items are ok but sure not armor, weapon and jewelry.

    The looting risk also help the community and making justice and punish the bad guys. Your status in the community effect how you are treated when you die. Many had learned, a bad reputation, maybe from being a scammer or just dishonorable I other ways effect how heavy you are looted and how often you are killed.

    Siege would get hurt badly if we got item insurance and would die as there would be no reason to play here. A bad person would not care how often he got killed if he did not lose anything imported, he would just go on with his dishonorable playstyle.

    About Hidding and Stealth, I find hiding ok but stealth should be harder, special in form. Maybe something like if you stealth more than 7-10 step near a player without stand still a few sec, you should have bigger risk to fail. Also field spells /expl. pots should unhide a hidden char like in old days.
     
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  35. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    The reason people want Item Insurance is the problem with replacing items.

    1. Items are to expensive
    2. There are to few vendors selling good suits and weapons
    3. Crafting take to long time as you need to gathering a lot stuff or pay a lot for the resources.

    What I would like to see is:

    1. Drop 3x prices, special gems make suit expensive
    2. Give Siege a better drop of resources from monsters, both main resources and imbuing resources. Also better drop of artifact, magic stuff and PS.
    3. Upper the fame level of Siege monsters and give upper land spawn shame level 1 loot, Upper the dungeon's fame level too, so level 1 get level 2 loot without being harder. That will also help local community as crafters will hunt near their home. Together with the coming vendor seach, it may rebuild old player towns.
    4. Give Siege's miners, lumbers and animal hunters better drop of ingots, wood, wool, leather, gem, granite and the big gems and lumber imbuing resources.
    5. Add Bazaar vendors like the ones in New Mag to all npc town and to known player towns and drop the fee to half on both bazaar vendors and PC vendors.
    6. Maybe place a crystal portal on each dungeons level and some other desert places but add a delay of 5-10 sec so it can't be used as escape from a fight. A lot people on Siege do have RL too and sometimes they need to leave a dungeon and log without running to several levels or to get out after dead to monsters, get new gear and get back before their body decay.

    If crafters don't have to use a whole day to restock a vendor with imbued suits and other stuff, we will see more stocked vendors and the prices will drop too. The vendor seach will really help too. Players want to have fun, crafting now is not much of fun as you use lots of time doing same routines and have little time to hang out with friends, making events or do hunting.
     
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  36. Donal Mor

    Donal Mor Lore Keeper
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    Don't like stealth and hiding? Detect Hidden and tracking do work... then there are explosion potions. There used to be a notable inspector once upon a time... Sgt. Schnizzel. I miss him.
     
  37. Donal Mor

    Donal Mor Lore Keeper
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    Some thoughts,

    1) Wealth is extremely concentrated on this server compared to even two years ago, let alone further back. This is grossly distorting prices. 5 million for a year one vet reward? WTF.

    2) Insurance? No. Having looked at what many of you well established folk are wearing, you are not too concerned about insurance. In days past, if you wore that much wealth, you would have been target number one and would have been dry looted without reservation. But all that is easy to do and get away with, if you are sitting on vast amounts of wealth or have little reservation about buying gold with real dollars (or indirectly with the origin store).

    3) I agree with Freja, imbuing is interesting but the materials needed are too time consuming to acquire. There needs to be some rebalance. Imbuing has forced prices beyond affordable.

    4) Do you really need that absolute best power suit to have fun in this game? The thing is, that power gear, the stuff that Pendragon and others sells for insane prices, is easy for some folks to buy. Some of you even rationalize it as ok too. That's the market right? But who is buying? Go back to #1.

    5) They are insane prices. ~250,000 gold for a suit of leather armor? The loot you get farming monsters has not kept up with inflation. The money changing hands is passed around among those with money to pass around, ie among the few and not the many. How many new players have come to that market? I have no desire to farm for hours and days for gold to buy that 250,000 gold suit that I might lose minutes later. Insurance isn't the answer either.

    6) We don't need more vendors in towns. We need more people living, gathering, shopping... away from towns.

    7) The global chat needs to go away. People need a reason to go places. With global chat, you don't have to go anywhere. It distorts the market by concentrating it. When is the last time anyone gathered at a player run tavern? Who needs to, with global chat. Some of you have pointed out in the past, they would just use, IRC, Teamspeak, Vent... well then I guess you are part of the problem then.

    8) Remove the LRC property. Reagent costs are an essential gold sink on this server.
     
  38. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    No they don't work.

    And you seem to not notice how you're attitude and what you're saying has contributed to the problem, so I'm being nice and asking you to not provide this sort of unproductive commentary. I'm seeing Bo attacked even though what he's saying is the only other than what I am that makes any sort of sense. I only think my idea is more pragmatic for Siege than his. If this wasn't the case, I'd be hugging my bear.

    Thanks.
     
    #33 Draxous, Dec 7, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  39. Donal Mor

    Donal Mor Lore Keeper
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    9) Bind origin store items to the account that bought them, like the Brittania ship is. This eliminates that secondary market.
     
  40. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    1. You have nothing to sell worth my $$. I post buying threads and the community does not provide the supply to the demand. I'm convinced this is because of how much of a pain in the ass it is to supply me with what I demand.

    2. Makes no sense, redo or trash whatever you said.

    3. It's good.
     
    #35 Draxous, Dec 7, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  41. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    There's a couple factors specifically that destroy the siege economy.

    The concentration of wealth deters new players from committing to the shard. The second thing is the low population. The economy on siege actually reflects the overall economy in the u.s. The top 1% have all the wealth, the siege veterans. Everybody else has little or nothing. This is good and bad. It's good in the sense that vets should have that wealth, and deserve it. If you play on siege for 10 years, then of course you deserve massive wealth. I'm not complaining about that at all.

    What can be done about new players? As you mentioned, anything a new player has, with any value to a vet, it will be bought quickly at millions of gold. This is reflected by the first year vet rewards going for 1 million to 5 million. That means veterans run the siege economy. Furthermore, the veterans are in factions, and split against each other. So the vets don't really buy much from each other, due to faction fighting, pvp, and general competition. This stagnates the economy into the ground.

    The vets sit on billions, and the money does not move. That is a stagnant economy, like in the united states today, a perfect reflection of reality.

    Why should new players join siege? Let's use an example, 10 new players sign up to siege per month. And of those 10 players, maybe 3 will later go on to play for longer than 6 months, maybe 1 or 2 play longer than 1 year. So the dropout rate is huge. Why do new players drop out? Yes, siege is a hardcore shard, so the droupout is expected.

    But can't we raise the rate of players who remain? Yes, it's hard with the ruleset, and it's harder on top of that, with the community. The shard community essentially decides if a new player stays or goes. Some new players are asshats, who don't belong, especially the players who flirt with, and make sexual advances toward children. These types of players need to go. And the community does this by shunning them, kill them on site, take their stuff, refuse to trade with them, abuse them verbally in general chat.

    So the community ultimately decides. This is good and bad, but mostly bad. Why? Because new players can't acquire independence. How could they?

    On siege you need a few things to start out. You need to raise your skills, which takes time. You need money for some gear. You need a means to make money. There really is a lack on that last one. There is no dependable way for newbies to make money. Some can beg, or appeal to the billionaires, but that is being a b##ch freeloader, and who respects freeloaders? Nobody.

    How can new players make money? Crafting is broken, we've agreed on this. So that means gathering resources is also broken. This system needs a revamp, crafting and gathering. Player crafted weapons and armors should be higher quality than the NPC environment. Give control of shard items back to players, not NPCs and drops.

    The top tier items of the game should be 66% player controlled, crafted, and 34% environment controlled, through random drops and farming routines. Plus you will need to make access to mid tier items equal to vets and newcomers. How do you balance the playing field? New players can't compete in the acquisition of top tier items, and so should have easier access to low and mid tier gear.

    Make player run events, community events, special events, level the playing field, make mid tier items, which most people can use, or everybody can use, where poor and rich alike can compete directly.

    Return to a skill based game, not a gear based game. However, the contradiction here is that people are competing for gear. So there should be other rewards to compete for: house deco, more game options, customization, unique rewards.

    So here are the changes I propose,

    Move all the item base to 66% crafted, player controlled, and 34% environment controlled, NPC random drops and farming routines.

    Make mid tier gear, which most people can use, accessible to be competed for, by both vets and newbies. We need to level the playing field, to include new players, and give them a reason to hope.


    Why should a new player have to wait 6 months to 1 year, to begin competing directly against the vets??? And then the vets complain about stupid crap, and dropout rates?

    The vets are first to blame, in my opinion. It's YOUR FAULT that the community is, as it is. And so if you're dissatisfied, then look in the mirror. I know, for a fact, the vets are exclusive to new players, and not inclusive.

    However, this problem gets solved naturally. Vets leave, abandon their accounts, quit logging in, and this creates a surge of new players, as it has recently since summer. Without the vets around, nobody "blocks" the progress of new players.

    I've seen this, and experienced it, firsthand. I've personally gotten very little help from vets, nor did I ask for help, and I like doing things myself.

    King Edward helped me out a lot. I owe nothing to anybody else.
     
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  42. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    I just came up with a great idea.

    Let's have a "Siege New Haven", for characters between 1-6 months old on the shard. This area will have low tier competition, common gear drops, great farming for gold and resources, but after 6 months, your character is removed or locked out.

    This will allow low tier pvp. Newbies can fight newbies, without interference from vets with top tier gear. Let's even the playing field, and give new players the start they deserve. After 6 months, the new players, if they work hard, will have mid tier gear, money, housing, settled, and can then go on to integrate further into the community and game.

    This "Siege New Haven" will be an incentive for players to get used to the hardcore ruleset. Instead of newbies just getting ganked by Diablo, A Ghost, Grimlex, and other SL factioners and pkers.

    Plus it will allow some "low tier" pvp. Low tier pkers and pvp players can compete against each other, for good rewards, and start practicing the pvp reality with the felucca ruleset. This would be available in the Siege New Haven zone.


    I also propose some limited vet housing and access to the new haven zone, specifically with the intent that the Vet player contributes to the new player, their new player environment, and teaches them the ropes, without interferring with their competition and farming. Accounts older than 6 months on siege, cannot attack newbies in the new haven zone. And accounts older than 6 months, will not receive the bonus gold, and low tier gear, that is dropped from NPCs there. So vet players can't farm the area.

    Vets should only be in the area specifically to help new players. Furthermore, a vet house in the new haven area will have a large tax on it. Maybe 250k per month, and these funds go straight into the new player, new haven pot. And that gold goes directly to community events, rewards, and other activities which support new players and get them staying longer on and integrating into the shard.

    Then, once the new player is out of the new haven zone, he or she is already committed for 6 months. The newb will know what's coming, and that is getting destroyed in the regular environment. Plus, after you invest for 6 months, you're less inclined to walk away after a few ganks and deaths, from the vets and factions.
     
  43. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Slightly Crazed
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    Gosh - most of these posts sound like the authors don't play Siege. I do not think Siege will ever get insurance. If it does the Shard will survive. People that say they will not play if this changes or that changes are too stuck on themselves or their play style.

    anyway

    1) The now generation has arrived in Ultima online. Some people think they should be able to get anything with out working for it.

    2) High cost is because we kill scripters AND because resource gatherers do not have a tram to exploit. Plus pkers make gathering much harder.

    3) I think small gems should not be sold by NPCs (this hurts miners a lot!)

    3) First year vet rewards are expensive because of Soulstone cost and Supple and Demand

    etc
     
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  44. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    [Quote = Donal Mor]Some thoughts,

    1) Wealth is extremely concentrated on this server compared to even two years ago, let alone further back. This is grossly distorting prices. 5 million for a year one vet reward? WTF. [/quote]
    As far I know, prices are 1 mill a year and I se no problem in that. I rather saw people being able to turn in a reward for a new choice of same year, so they can choose it on an other shard. Maybe a cap of 2-3 turn in a year.

    I have never brought gold with RL cash or sold gold for RL cash. I have however brought stuff from EA store for own use. I don't think this are a big problem on Siege.

    Not only the gathering is time consuming but also to get the resist 5x70 is a pain. I don't think the prices are belong afford able. A leather suit with 100 LRC only cost around 10-15k, that's really not a lot of money but remove the 3x prices and start with stocking 100 of a kind on gem vendors and the suit could be even cheaper.
    Drop more gems on monsters and from mining and prices will drop even more for a noob suit

    I don't know Pendragons prices but I know, if we made it more fun to be a crafter, the ones with to high prices would have hard with selling.
    With the new vendor seach thing we will get, crafters can find their niche and sell their special kind of suit and weapon and the customers will find them.

    Noone sell a leather suit for 250k unless it is a better suit with 5x70 resist, 40 MR, some stats increase or regain and maybe luck or LRC. You can get a ok suit for less than 100k but you can also find buyers, who will pay 500k for the right suit.
    Again a lot can affect the prices
    1. Higher fame level on monsters = more unraw of relic
    2. Better drop of imbuing resources and gems from monsters and mining / lumbering
    3. Increase the effect of arms lore even more on Siege, make it 15%, then the crafters would not need to use a lot painful time getting the resist right, just 3 piece barded and 3 piece horned in a suit may get you there, or mixed with 1-2 pieces spined if you need luck anyway.
    4. Give Black Wisps, sea, desert, swamp, orc, lich and ant spawn at overland new loot = level 1 shame

    That depend, I would like to see a few spot for bazaar vendors in the old town together with remove of 3x prices and factions taxes and some bazaar vendors in the player towns so the locale gatherers can sell their wares from there, however we need to lower the fee from selling from this vendors, to see more use them for selling and not only for buying. Useful spawn around player towns, vendor seach and bazaar vendors will bring back life in the player towns.

    I like the global chat but it would be nice if you could join more than one at the time, like both being in help chat and gen chat and maybe make a chat for a group, where you need a PW to join. The global chat do help the community in many ways and bind the community together too.

    If we get rid of 3x prices I believe a lot will use regs to give room for other mods on their suit. I'm a archer with magery for gating and EV's and maybe a few other spells. I never use LRC on Freja but I do on my crafters as I can carry more when I do not run around with regs.
    I don't think we need a lot more of gold sink, the new town system include a gold sink too and I sure pay a lot gold to npc vendors for gems, sometimes several mills when I refill my gem box.

    I don't see a big problem here, if you limit it that way, only the ones with a good RL economy can affort them, I find it ok to trade them ingame.
     
  45. Pendragon

    Pendragon Journeyman

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    holy wow impressive long winded people!
     
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  46. Bo Bo

    Bo Bo Lore Keeper
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    Just some random thoughts on what the Bo read
    1. Someone tried to argue with Bo about stealth hide not being over powered than they say well everyone uses. Thanks for provin Bo's point, there is a reason why everyone is using it. IT IS OVERPOWERED! ahahhaha on the detector idea!! In all of Bo's years of playing only 3 people have used detect hidden effectively. Against a smart person who knows what they are doing you will not detect someone long enough to be effective.
    2. Someone suggested a slue of changes to advert insurance. Yeah sure the devs will just invest the time on making all those changes with all those new bugs that will pop up. Why not just institute a system that is already in the game. Less work for them =s better chance of it actually happening
    3. People seem to think that the status quo is fine. What shard are you playing if you think this? Sure there are more houses here, but certainly not more people.
     
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  47. DeadBob

    DeadBob Ancient Alien
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    The Help channel on Atlantic this morning kinda spoke to this. A new player wanting to have "the best PvP gear" was told to start with a 300 mil suit. No kidding. The suit was described in detail. And :) a uogold spammer kept interrupting their conversation!

    I like Siege precisely because it is not item based. Insurance allows an item based game. Gold becomes more important than skill - & I mean PvP skills, not UO skills. I also enjoy a shard where the gear one wears is not a measure of the person. Atlantic reeks of ostentatious wealth and really, it just feels cheap.
    Disclaimer: I like Atlantic. It's the big city and can be fun. But I no longer want to live there.

    Insurance would not save Siege. It would just turn us into another item based shard unable to compete with Atlantic for players just like any other depopulating prodo shard. The unique thrill of playing as describe by Luka Melehan is exactly what I like about Siege.

    So I'd vote "No!" on having insurance on Siege.
     
    #41 DeadBob, Dec 7, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
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  48. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Siege is no different. It sounds like you're still the same kind of mongbat loot you were when you got shocked on atlantic.

    This would be smoke and mirrors. If it meant that loot tables and resources were addressed, then we're talking problem solved. Or just put in insurance and hit the last nail in the coffin. I prefer the former. It feels right.
     
  49. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    If they ever did add insurance on siege..it would have to be an excessive amount of gold..like 3-5k per item..if your rich and die and don't mind losing 50-100k per death awesome! But it would still help crafters and such because "most" people won't want to spend that kind of gold per death


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  50. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    If they ever did that, then just like faction items - it would become an epic cry/quit fest. The point is to promote playing and pvp.
     
  51. RueTor

    RueTor Journeyman
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    hehe...

    Anyway couldn't resist, my brief two gold coins.

    Problems:
    A) Need more people.
    B) Need to see people.
    C) Need to have minor programming changes or it ain't going to happen.

    Quick Fixes:
    A) Allow insurance scaled pricing just like production (newbie suits are cheaper to insure), but do the normal x3 cost for Siege.
    B) Eliminate Stealth. Keep hiding, but no stealth. Just like the real old days.
    C) Tweak the ROT timers.

    General Comments:
    Go on a new shard and create a fresh character train only in FEL especially at the yew gate and don't insure anything. Get that newbie feeling again, then come back and add your comments. ;)

    Ahhh... I feel much better now. I must get back to my stealth farming with an RC.
     
  52. MANSBETH

    MANSBETH Seasoned Veteran

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    Definitely need to make crafting a more intricate part of the economy.
    Lots of ideas! Keep them coming.
     
  53. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Damn why do all this insure lovers not just play one of the 20+ shards?
    We do not need Item Insurance.
    We need better access to crafting and imbuing resources, better loot from overland.
    We need to get rid of the pain from adding 5x70 resist.
    We need less vendor fee
    We need that new vendor seach, that is comming
    We may need a few crystal portals inside the dungeons or right outside and at other desert places
    If players easy can find a vendor with a new suit, looting won't be a big problem.
     
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  54. RueTor

    RueTor Journeyman
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    :) That is the point.... Most insurance lovers do play the other 20+ shards. The question is how to pull or convince some of the "insurance lovers" from the 20+ shards to devote some of their time on Siege without making Siege too easy.

    A higher population on this shard may solve a lot of issues pointed out by everyone, but you have get that player base from somewhere.

    Personally, I have been playing both Siege (yes.. since 1999) and production shards since they were released. I split my time between shards based on my available time to play and what mood I'm in at the time... as most probably do. I mainly play Siege due to the single character concept and no transfers allowed.

    I'm ok with no changes, but if the shard wants more players something has to change to make them give it a try. If you always do what you always did; you'll always get what you always got.

    Rue Tor
    P.S. Up from 2 gold coins to 4 gold coins ;)
     
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  55. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I am willing to entertain a lot of ideas and suggestions. Insurance should not be on the table. It is one of the few things that Siege offers to be a different experience. We have made so many changes to try and attract players and have had some success.
     
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  56. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Slightly Crazed
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    You are welcome to your opinion but I think everything is on the table when you are discussing what is good for the shard to survive,
     
  57. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Survive? I did not even know we were sick...

    ;)
     
  58. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    The day we get Item Insurance is the day I cancel all my account and you can loot my **** when my castles drop
     
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