1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Divine fury penalty too much!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Hunter Perilous, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. Hunter Perilous

    Hunter Perilous Journeyman
    UFO

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    91
    The Divine Fury penalty to defense chance is too much!
    This should be scaled back or done away with entirely.
     
  2. cobb

    cobb Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    373
    I believe you can overcap your DCI to make up for the penalty from Divine Fury
     
  3. Drowy

    Drowy Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    128
    At 120 Chiv and with high Karma the penalty is 10. I dont think that is too much.
     
    Finley Grant likes this.
  4. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
    Moderator Professional Governor Campaign Patron UWF

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    2,869
    Likes Received:
    2,647
    I don't mind the DCI hit for my Paladin (120 Chiv, 24K+ Karma), but at lower levels it can still be a pain. My sampire that runs 80 Chiv and Karma around 15K-20K... the DCI hit makes it almost not worth it depending on what you're fighting. That's the trade-off though..

    The change to Divine Fury I would like to see would be to have the timer go out another 5 seconds, or allow you to refresh it while the spell is still in effect, similar to consecrate weapon.
     
  5. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend -A-

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2000
    Messages:
    14,725
    Likes Received:
    1,042
    At the theoretical best case, maybe. But how many people are high karma and 120 Chiv?
     
  6. Finley Grant

    Finley Grant Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    731
    Me. Because that's How I calculated the toon and the suit. In several Charakters.

    It's a powerful spell which give you 10ssi 15hci and 20 du for 20ish Second. The -10dci you can live with.

    You eiher make a Paladin. Or not
     
    ShriNayne likes this.
  7. Finley Grant

    Finley Grant Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    731
    Well. Id suggest to Make a proper template instead of whining
     
  8. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,096
    Likes Received:
    872
    Eh. The penalty isn't that bad. Pvm wise anyway. Can pretty easily adjust your suits for the dci required to overcap to compensate for the penalty.
     
  9. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    961
    Likes Received:
    585
    pretty sure he's talking PvP...
     
    Hunter Perilous likes this.
  10. Cutter

    Cutter Visitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    27
    Nobody uses divine fury in PvP.

    Nobody should be anyhow - that's what total refresh pots are for. Haven't we given the dev's enough [email protected] to worry about without adding more?
     
    CovenantX and chester rockwell like this.
  11. Hunter Perilous

    Hunter Perilous Journeyman
    UFO

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    91
    Divine Fury very much has a place in pvp.
    I think that with 120 skill points and 20k+ karma -10 dci is too much.
    I'm playing a lot of siege, over capping dci to make up the difference isn't an option.
    I'm currently at 85 chiv and 15k karma and I'm getting a -20 dci. That's crazy.
    As to the devs. That's their job. I'm expressing my opinion on skill that could use some adjusting.
    Thanks!
     
  12. Hunter Perilous

    Hunter Perilous Journeyman
    UFO

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    91
    I have made a proper template.
    I have also made a valid point about a spell.
    You should try making a valid point to a discussion instead of making insults.
     
    chester rockwell likes this.
  13. Drowy

    Drowy Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    128
    So why exactly is the penalty too much?
    You want to keep the spell up for most of the time?
    In which situation you think its a problem?
     
  14. Hunter Perilous

    Hunter Perilous Journeyman
    UFO

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    91
    The penalty is too much because if used in pvp it kills your DCI. It's a great way to get killed when it's supposed to be a buff.
    I'm not saying that it can't have a dci penalty. But -20 even with very high karma is overkill.
    -20?
    At least make it so you can't drop below 0.
    Right now, if you have 0 dci, and hit DF, you'll go to -20 dci.
     
  15. Hunter Perilous

    Hunter Perilous Journeyman
    UFO

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    91
    The penalty is too much in just about any situation. -20 dci and you can get destroyed by a mongbat.
     
  16. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
    Moderator Professional Governor Campaign Patron UWF

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    2,869
    Likes Received:
    2,647
    I just want to make it refreshable like Consecrate weapon.
     
    Hunter Perilous likes this.
  17. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    961
    Likes Received:
    585
    I get his point. I believe he's an archer and uses it for SSI bonus, not to replenish stamina. It makes sense on Siege because he can get away with less SSI on the suit (which isn't an option anyway because you loose your stuff when you die) or bow.
     
    Hunter Perilous likes this.
  18. Finley Grant

    Finley Grant Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    731
    Well this Show US that you dont use proper template.

    This spell belogs belongs to the Paladin skill chivalry which is about Karma.

    And for Maximum use you need 120 skill Points and max Karma.

    It's like that u complaining about that your magery spells from circle 8 don't work fully with 85 skill

    dont lecture me make ur template properly
     
  19. Drowy

    Drowy Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    128
    If you got 0 DCI, somethings wrong with your armor
    If you die to a mongbat cause of the DCI penalty, there is something wrong with your armor (unless Siege got super powerful mongbats)
    If the DCI penalty is a problem for you in PvP, dont cast it.

    Maybe you should go and tweak your armor a bit.
     
  20. Hunter Perilous

    Hunter Perilous Journeyman
    UFO

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    91
    This is nothing like complaining at 85 Margery that 8th circle spells aren't working properly. That's stupid.
    The minimum to cast DF is 25, and to cast it 100% without fail is 75.
    Which, on my Siege toon, I'm well above.
    My karma is over 15,000. Plenty high enough. I plan on taking it over 20,000.
    I absolutely understand how to build a character and have had chivalry on my main on Catskills since it's been available.
    I'm happy for you that your "sampire" has 120 chiv and 50,000 karma and has overcapped dci to compensate for the dci hit.
    On Siege, my new main and favorite shard, the chance to over cap DCi doesn't exist.
    On Siege, you don't have the luxury of being suited to the gills and having legendary everything.
    Even on a prodo shard, I think that with 120 skill points invested and 20,000+ karma, -10 DCI is on the heavy side.
    Once again, not being able to suit up like a prodo shard, I'm not going to be able to take my chivalry to 120. I'll have to lock it at
    100/ Grandmaster.
    I don't know what the exact DCI penalty at Grandmaster and over level 5 karma is,but I bet it's still going to be -15/20.
    Which is extreme.
    I think having very high karma should affect the penalty more.
    I think that the intended idea wasn't to penalize the paladin so much that the spell is useless in any kind of melee situation.
    If that were the case, why have the spell to begin with?
     
  21. Hunter Perilous

    Hunter Perilous Journeyman
    UFO

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    91
    My mongbat analogy was hyperbole to make a point.
    I'm sorry if you didn't get that.
    I do understand what your saying as to regards to armor.
    My point is that on Siege especially, tweaking your armor isn't a thing like it is on prodo shards. Most people would agree that with less than max DCI your going to get eaten alive by dexxers.
    What's the point of a spell that is suppsed to increase your melee ability that also drops your defense so low your better off not to use it?
    That's counter intuitive. I don't think that was the intention of the spell. I think the spell penalty itself could use a tweak. It's on the extreme side. With max skill and max karma, it still lowers you by -10.
    That's a lot.
    And at 100 and max karma it lowers you by 15-20.
    That's extreme.
    What if bless lowerd your DCI by 10 at 120 Margery and eval? Would you use it?
     
  22. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,837
    Likes Received:
    242
    I agree with the OP. The value should be 5.
     
    Hunter Perilous likes this.
  23. Hunter Perilous

    Hunter Perilous Journeyman
    UFO

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    91
    I think 5 at 120 skill and high karma is a great idea.
    It hurts, you don't want to hit it if your against a hard hitting dexxer, but it's not so penalizing as to make it useless.
    There's a trade off that MIGHT be worth the risk.
     
  24. Hunter Perilous

    Hunter Perilous Journeyman
    UFO

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    91
    Another idea.
    Decrease or erase the penalty if you have chivalry as your mastery.
     
    Merlin likes this.
  25. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    961
    Likes Received:
    585
    tell that to the people who complain about holy fisters, they'll lynch you :-/
    I am glad holy fisters aren't an issue on Siege (yet?)
     
  26. Alex"Drake Iron Heart"CS

    Governor

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    787
    Likes Received:
    284
    A good sampire should never really need Divine Fury, if he has set up the template and weapons correctly.
    By not having SSI on weapons, the leeches can be super high so no need to cast it, as the extra DI is not noticeable if you EOO and Honor, you already at max damage 300%

    Only template I can see using Divine Fury would be an archer if he lost his stamina and had to swing fast again, but being a ranged char you can get away from damage until the debuff of 10DCI is lost
     
  27. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    961
    Likes Received:
    585
    once again, keep in mind that the OP states that he wishes to use a chiv archer in PvP and on Siege Perilous.
    The combination of Siege and PvP equals loosing your entire suit except for one item you are able to bless when you die (usually your weapon). So maintaining expensive suits with 100% DI, all the SSI, HCI and DCI on them is really unrealistic within this setting.

    So within this setting it can absolutely make sense to use divine fury as an archer in order to get to the required SSI, HCI and DI. However as he stated the huge hit to DCI you take makes using this spell not a good option in pvp...
     
    Hunter Perilous likes this.
  28. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,096
    Likes Received:
    872
    So why would they work on something that really isn't needed with the exception of one shard and one type of play style (pvp). Not trying to be a jerk but it would be a bit unbalanced for other shards.
     
  29. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    961
    Likes Received:
    585
    the answer is right there in your signature =)

    I won't go too far into how Siege has been badly affected by bleed over from prodo shard crap that the devs simply forgot to adjust and how much Siege has been completely neglected over the years, you'll just have to believe me there. Asking for little tweaks to the way things work for Siege's sake surely isn't too much to ask. Also I don't really get this envious attitude some prodo players display, like only they would be entitled to dev time. It's not like prodo has ever been neglected over Siege Perilous...
     
    Hunter Perilous likes this.
  30. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,096
    Likes Received:
    872
    It's not really about the time more than it is about it would effect other shards as well. If they could make it seige only I would have no issues at all with it.
     
  31. Max Blackoak

    Max Blackoak Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    961
    Likes Received:
    585
    well what would be so bad about improving that spell a bit even if it affected prodo? what he proposed is not gonna be a game breaking change...
     
    Hunter Perilous likes this.
  32. cobb

    cobb Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    373
    I can see how it helps on Siege. Reducing the dci penalty wouldn't really cause any balance issues.
     
    Hunter Perilous likes this.
  33. Hunter Perilous

    Hunter Perilous Journeyman
    UFO

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    91
    I think the affect it would have on prodo shards would be 0.
    Everyone has maxed suits and over capped eveything. Most people won't use DF on prodo because they are already maxed out on HCI,SSI and Damage. If they aren't maxed, they will hit the cap. It won't put them over the cap or give them a distinct advantage that everyone's overpowered suits aren't already giving them.
    Where it is actually useful, is on siege.
    Where having a burst of HCI,SSI and damage is extremely helpful.
    But not at the current DCI penalty, it's actually a curse in pvp.
    On Siege, I'm averaging 30 DCI, depending on how many times my suits been looted that day and what pieces I've scrounged up.
    To go from 30 DCI to 10 DCI in a fight will get you killed. Fast!
     
  34. Hunter Perilous

    Hunter Perilous Journeyman
    UFO

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    91
    This is with 21,000 karma too.
     
  35. CovenantX

    CovenantX Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2009
    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    1,645
    People don't use Divine Fury on prodo shards because refresh potions are better -they require no skill points to use, Also do not take mana or have a cast time... oh, and there's no DCI penalty to follow.
    as far as the short bonuses to DI & SSI goes. yea, people already have cap DI & SSI, so it's almost 100% useless. ...It's only useful if you have no refresh potions (lol)

    DF has been effectively removed since it no longer restores you to full stamina with each cast.

    besides, stamina leech > DF for pvm as well.... It's broken.
     
    Hunter Perilous likes this.
  36. Hunter Perilous

    Hunter Perilous Journeyman
    UFO

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    91

    I completely agree. Divine Fury is broken.
    For a skill that only has a couple of spells, the ones it does have should all work and not be so neutered as to be worthless, or worse, get you killed because it's worse than not using it.
    This would be an easy fix.
    I know people cry about palladans, I'm not sure why, but it's a lot of skill points and is difficult to gear for as well.