1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Do I understand this properly?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Flutter, Mar 21, 2011.

  1. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    I did search for answers so forgive me if I missed something somewhere but...

    You're just going to remove a faction town? That's it?
    We will simply have 7 faction cities. No discussion no explaination.
     
  2. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    CoM base is on the south end of Verity Isle; has been for a bit.

    Here

    YouTube - Ultima Online - New Council of Mages Base on TC1 - TGN

    is a tour of it.

    -Galen's player
     
  3. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend -A-

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2000
    Messages:
    14,717
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    I see no problem with this. Stick the Factions out in the wilderness.
     
  4. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    But what about the story of why it was moved, why no other town is replacing Magincia and why the monolith simply vanished.

    Did someone on the dev team actually come to the decision?
    "What are we going to do about Magincia being a faction city?"
    "Well we could just keep it"
    "Naw let's replace it with Jhelom"
    "Nah... just delete it and all the monoliths at the bases"
    "Ok!"
     
  5. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    If you look at the date on that video you will see that this was done back in December of last year.

    There was a meeting on Test Center before that; December or November. The response was mostly positive in between "u suk" "u r noob" and random killings.

    The base was moved because of future, now current, plans for Magincia.

    The removal of it as a Faction city entirely, however, appears to have been done far more recently, as it wasn't specifically mentioned when the base was moved.

    If by "story" you mean fiction? There was none. However, as I recall it was in Magincia at all because the Council of Mages wanted as little to do as possible with Mariah, who was based out Moonglow and was a strong supporter of Lord British.

    And Mariah hasn't been seen in quite awhile.

    -Galen's player
     
  6. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    Well I think the destruction of magincia explains it. Aside from why the base was moved that is.
     
  7. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    It's not that the base was moved, it is that we are now short one faction city with no ... update/discussion/explanation/story/smoke screen/BS session....
    We just decided to have 7 faction cities. Good to be a part of UO thanks.
     
  8. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    Maybe I just shouldn't give a damn anymore about what happens in UO.
     
  9. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Actually, your post as originally posted asked specifically about the CoM Base.

    You edited your post at 6 minutes past the hour; I answered your unedited post at 6 minutes past the hour.

    In other words, I answered what you asked.

    -Galen's player
     
  10. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    There was a line at the bottom which you quoted above where I asked where the com base was, yes. When I remembered they moved that to Moonglow I deleted that part, yes.
    The specific (first paragraph) of my post and the reason for posting remains unchanged.
     
  11. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,456
    Likes Received:
    507
    I'm finding it hard to get worked up over my pixil crack lately, and it feels pretty okay.
     
  12. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    *scratches head*

    So....your getting an answer means the question wasn't really asked?

    Or perhaps yours was an "all or nothing" query, so my answering the part of it that I had an answer to means my answer, somehow, doesn't count?

    No, that can't be it, because you edited out the question...So it must be that, once answered, the question no longer existed.

    Your quote, made at 39 minutes past the hour, read:

    So yeah, it must be that once your last question was answered, it no longer existed as such.

    Logically, should you get answers to the other questions, the post you originally made should slowly fade out of existence.

    -Galen's player
     
  13. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    Well it used to be fun :/
    Now it's less of a sandbox and more of a "here is what you're going to get like it or not"
     
  14. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,456
    Likes Received:
    507
    Shall I croon Kay Sera Sera for you my dear? Its frustrating but I think we can chalk it up to lack of manpower far more than lack of interest.

    Your post regarding Messana talking to players about how to effectively expose more people to pvp brings that home pretty well.
     
  15. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    You are mixing up two very distinct concepts.

    The latter appears to deal with the fact that UO, like all products, comes to us from a manufacturer. Sometimes we as customers have direct input in the product (example: A marketing study or focus group to examine the commercial prospects for a new kind of toothpaste), sometimes it is more a matter of, here is the product, if we do not like it, we will not purchase it.

    The first part, however, appears to refer to a type of product. I've never, until now, heard the term "sandbox" referred to how much input we had on the game we played, rather to the kind of game we were presented with to play, or not play, according to our bent. Usually the term "sandbox" refers to a type of MMO which UO is oft-said to exemplify though it has never been a pure example of the type. As well it shouldn't be.

    -Galen's player
     
  16. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    I'm sorry Galen I am totally lost.

    I posted because they deleted Magincia as a faction city. There is no monolith there and inside all of the bases we now only have 7 places to corrupt sigils.
    I checked the faction forum and it seems that no one was informed that we were going to be going down to 7 faction cities/sigils so I thought I would ask here.

    Yes, at the end of my post I did ask where the COM base was, and I did delete it after I remembered that it was in Moonglow.
    Where the faction bases are is pretty irrelevant, that was just an added question to my post topic because I was running around test shard at the time. Once I recalled that they had moved it, I promptly deleted that line in my post.

    Why you have issue with this is something I don't understand.

    My topic is that they (the dev team) have taken it upon themselves to make a major faction change without a word. They simply deleted something from the game that has been there for longer than any of them (with the exception of maybe Grim) have been working on it.
     
  17. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    What I have an issue with is that you asked a question, I answered it, and you became agitated (or at least appeared to and posted in a manner that to me appeared calculated to suggest such) at the fact that I'd only answered one of your questions.

    You asked, in part, where the base was.

    I said, the base is now here, thus answering a question I knew the answer to.

    You then replied by saying, it's not about where the base is. Thus seeming annoyed that I'd answered a question that you had asked.

    It's not really my fault that you changed your mind about asking after you got the answer.

    -Galen's player
     
  18. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,456
    Likes Received:
    507
    Galen, I think she meant we the players had greater control of the world we play in. That's debatable, of course.

    On the other hand, it was very rare that things just, changed, without warning or explanation.
     
  19. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    I have.
    I have (in the long ago past) had dev members say to me "come sandbox it" meaning come test out different ideas.
     
  20. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Probably. But still it is two different questions.

    How much input will we have over the product we buy? What kind of product will it be?

    Yes, seeing as how I remember these same types of posts going back over 10 years.

    -Galen's player
     
  21. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Never seen that.

    I do, however, remember complaints similar to yours being voiced over 10 years ago about one issue or other.

    -Galen's player
     
  22. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    I am sorry you take my posting style to have anything to do with you at all.
    Please forgive me if you took anything I said personally. Yes, the base was moved. Thank you for that information. I thought I had edited my post before anyone had a chance to reply. Now can we stop arguing and talk (or not talk) about the topic of the post please?
     
  23. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,456
    Likes Received:
    507
    *backs quietly away*
     
  24. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,109
    Likes Received:
    904
    Wow this stupid war of words between galen and flutter is Effin annoying.



    Flutter.. yes they deleted a faction city/sigil/etc without any fiction/explanation. They have not made any mention of replacing it in a different town.

    Does that answer the friggin question?
     
  25. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    Is there no one left in the game that cares about this kind of stuff?
     
  26. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend -A-

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2000
    Messages:
    14,717
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    They may as well do away with Factions.
     
  27. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend -A-

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2000
    Messages:
    14,717
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Nope. It's just not a big deal.
     
  28. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    They have announced nothing in terms of a new Faction City.

    I can't reasonably guess what, if anything, they have in-mind.

    Which is unusual; normally I have enough information that I can extrapolate....Even if I'm wrong I can usually at least make a reasonable guess.

    -Galen's player
     
  29. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,456
    Likes Received:
    507
    I care, but life is too short to get cranked over it. Been there done that. They have helped me with my over-investment tremendously.
     
  30. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    I did take note. So if that's caring, then no, you aren't.....

    For whatever reason I just didn't ascribe any meanings to it.

    They've suggested that there's not another pass at a Faction revamp coming, but said suggestion was pretty indirect.

    So truth is....I don't think they have made such decisions yet.

    There are, to my thinking, worse things than Factions having one less city.

    There should be fiction, though.....A line or two about how the New Magincia folks of Trammel lay claim to the city in Felucca as well as Trammel, and dumped the town stones, would probably do it for me.

    Like many movies, some of the 'wrong' stuff in UO fiction can be fixed with a line or two that no one thinks of until it's too late.

    -Galen's player
     
  31. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    It just bothers me that they can and did (seemingly arbitrarily) delete something from the game that wasn't a bug or broken.
    We are being spoon fed medicine we don't want or need without being asked.
    No debate. Just delete. Maybe over the next few patches they will delete more things that have been in the game for over a decade. For no other reason than because they can.
     
  32. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,456
    Likes Received:
    507
    You know, at this point, I think I would rather have them delete part of a system than try to make changes to replace a missing piece.
     
  33. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,009
    Likes Received:
    690
    they said a while ago that they were going to reduce the factions to 3 when they decided to revamp factions
     
  34. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    That was actual factions. Not faction cities.
     
  35. Pandora_CoD

    Pandora_CoD Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend CoD

    Joined:
    May 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,959
    Likes Received:
    738
    Let's hope they just redo factions... I mean honestly, 8 sigils is too much with the current populations. That worked great when I was part of Xiled from Humanity and we'd have CRAZY sigil wars with Resurrection or COPS or even CCC, but today ehhhh not so much. Perhaps knocking that number to 4 would be better.

    I wish something was done about the champ spawns (like I'd really like to see them be done as instances, where ppl can't redo them for 3 days lets say)... getting the pvp'ers back out doing more faction engagements out in the real world rather than camping or raiding spawns. That seems to be the only way to find "action" and it shouldn't be... no one bothers with the sigils or town raids or anything like we used to.

    I also want them to redo the faction reward system... earning points shouldn't be the only way to get rewards, having control of the sigils should also be a way to "purchase" rewards such as titles or other things like that. NOT ITEMS!!! And I think new skills or abilities should be added that are only awarded if players are involved in the faction system. THAT would get folks excited about factions!!!
     
  36. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran 4H

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    7,527
    Likes Received:
    1,914
    I still care about it, Flutter. However, I often make enough annoying posts for ten people. As a result, I sometimes just decide to choose my battles and stew in quiet over the rest of them. I'm very glad someone with more credibility than me has asked this question about losing a faction city with no explanation. I hope someone on the dev team will take five or ten minutes out of their busy schedule to try to respond with an answer that shows they have some understanding of the game, its history, and its players.
     
  37. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    I highly doubt I have more credibility than you Tina lol...
    I have a great amount of respect for you and am interested in your opinions. I am glad you spoke up here.

    Mesanna took a giant leap forward by asking our opinions on the pvp/dread mare thing, but then UO takes a giant step backwards when things like this happen.
     
  38. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,953
    Likes Received:
    5,436
    Well.... how about I'm guessing this was somewhat like the left hand doesn't have a clue what the right hand is doing and someone in "charge" at UO said.... remove everything to make way for the new "Magincia" rebuild.....

    And someone else said Ok yeah sure boss. And now it's gone... Only no one there had any sense about Fel and Factions because they moved the base the figured they were OK.... but no one realized how silly that was and why there is a sigil in Magincia.... so I suppose you could enjoy the fact that it's one less sigil to guard and one less to steal and corrupt..... or whatever.
     
  39. ChReuter

    ChReuter Guest

    What would be worse is to not remember players voicing their discontent when there has been reason to complain. So what if you can remember similar gripes? Do you not think a good many of those past complaints to be warranted? It seems as though you'd rather customers to have just bent over and taken it, rather than voice their opinion.

    Actually, in hindsight, maybe it would have been better if no one had ever spoke up. Maybe if the different dev teams over the years thought they had a perfect product from the start, than major changes I loathe would never have happened. (IE: Removal of the noto system, and insta-hit/precast, releases such as UOR, Aos, etc etc.)

    I wish players would learn from history. Don't get excited or even optimistic when a team member ask players what might be able to be done to fix pvp or fel. I remember a certain team member coming to LS (A shard I played off and on since it's release shortly after the game was released itself) and asking questions such as what I gather Messana asked. The result? First the stupid changes to str just prior to pub 16, and than pub 16 itself. Or maybe the abundance of silly ideas given to the dev team that somehow ended up even more silly with the release of AoS.

    "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." This pretty much sums up my feelings of the dev teams since the team that released pub 15 (Or whatever the patch was that changed strength.) and for sure since pub 16. In my opinion there has not been a team member who knew what pvp in UO should be from a horses ass since Calyndrell. (Who I at least trusted when it came to making changes to PvP as I had the privilege to fight with and against on both LS and siege and somewhat consider him a friend.)
     
  40. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    A giant step backwards just because there is no story atm for removing mag from factions and moving the base?? LMAO! Where were you when they moved the minax base?

    Yes, of course, because factions is so popular and well functioning /sarcasm
     
  41. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,457
    Likes Received:
    582
    I think the OP and many of the others in this thread have it backwards.

    The real question should be

    "Why the hell was Magincia STILL a faction city for TWO YEARS after EVERY NPC in the town was slaughtered, and the buildings razed?"

    Acting as if it was too short/no notice of the status removal is like acting as if you couldn't understand in 2004 why your mail sent to 1 World Trade Center kept getting returned as undeliverable.

    Geez....
     
  42. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    No a giant step backwards because of lack of communication.
     
  43. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,370
    Likes Received:
    720
    Last I knew the UO pure sandbox game was replaced with volleyball sand. Plus, the devs communcation is not their strong point.
     
  44. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    I suspect they presumed no one playing factions needed any storyline, since that's mostly how they've been making changes to factions anyway.

    Not to mention there's really no underlying reasoning behind factions anyway, other than getting cheap resources and pretty artifacts and horses.

    But that's my cynical section talking.

    I believe they didn't think they needed to say anything (after testing was done and changes approved) and thus, said nothing. Or perhaps they honestly didn't know what to say, since there's no real fiction involved with any of the factions at this point.

    More to the point, what would you and the other faction players liked to have seen?
     
  45. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran 4H

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    7,527
    Likes Received:
    1,914
    As Flutter said in her first post and I said later, an explanation for why they just decided to discontinue Magincia as a faction town would be a great start. Some well-written fiction for role play purposes would be a bonus. Some discussion around whether or not it makes sense to substitute another city would have been an even bigger bonus. However, since the Magincia sigil post has been removed from the faction bases on Test, it sounds as if the dev team have no plans to even try to go in the direction of substituting another city such as Jhelom or Nujelm or Cove.

    Just deleting a city with no replacement is a bit of a letdown. It means stealing/returning ALL the sigils takes less time and defending ALL the sigils takes less time, i.e., they once again just made another aspect of the game EASIER without even so much as a whisper of an explanation. It also means one more aspect of the faction system has just been whittled away with barely a word of acknowledgement.

    When I look at this change that the devs are trying to just quietly slide in, along with what appears to be the permanent loss of old and unique buildings in Magincia and their replacement with player housing, it's very difficult to have any enthusiasm for the conclusion of this story arc. It's also very difficult to feel like this dev team even cares about the game's history. The last thing the game needs at this point is MORE space for player housing and vendors. Yet that's what we're getting, at the cost of shard-specific history and part of the faction system.
     
  46. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    Well said Tina. Kudos.
     
  47. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    They communicated with this. No surprise, was in the patch notes, on test, etc. What you should have said is that they had a lack of story with it. Hardly a step backwards just because they didn't appease us with a story behind it. Personally this should have been done long ago when the city was first being attacked.
     
  48. Dakkon Blackblade

    Dakkon Blackblade Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    6
    Order vs Chaos > Factions which still have yet to be fixed to this day.
     
  49. Vlaude

    Vlaude Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    57
    I agree, they did communicate the change through patch notes. However, to me at least, the bigger issue isn't even that there was no fiction or story to go along with the change but rather that (yet again) they seemed to have made changes to something without first consulting thoughts from the player base whom it is effecting. It was a pretty significant change to make without asking the players what they thought about it. On the other hand, since when has that not been standard procedure for UO's dev team?
     
  50. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    "Oh and by the way we deleted a sigil"
    Isn't communication.