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do tamer templates have to much power in PVP?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Gunsmoke, Mar 5, 2015.

  1. Gunsmoke

    Gunsmoke Adventurer

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    ok u can argue this till your blue in the face but... which all the new weapons /armor/jewelry a guy without a pet can do some damage(of course depending on your game play). Now u stack pet(mostly mounted rides) with your killer suit OMG!!! they need to balanced the pet to when fighting another player to tone down the pets but when using em in pvm to remain or improve the power of em . there are players out there to twink there uoassist to dismount there players before they even get off there mount. ***on a side note uo need to put in there macro menu for unmount/remount for ppl that dont use uoassit***.

    as a funny story.. i seen a player with a ridable mount, swords and a ORC BRUTE run up to me with 140 hp and hit me for a one shot kill ... haha...
     
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  2. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    adapt and overcome.
     
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  3. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    No. In fact, they suck. In a group, the pvp tamer is decent, but that isn't saying much - every template is good in a group.

    On both Atl & Lake Superior, I've fought tamers. Only one has been able to kill me 1v1, and that was due to my own stupidity. I've killed another repeatedly 1v1 (and posted the screenshots in gen chat), and all he does is run his mouth about how much I die (to a dismount gank, anywhere from a 3v1 to a 5v1.) That said, I survive the dismount ganks far more often than I should, remount, and bolt unless my guildmates are around.
     
  4. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    garg mystic, with RCs are the new "tamers" for group pvp
     
  5. James Moriarty

    James Moriarty Journeyman
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    My Mage tamer is a killer in PvP
     
  6. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    How does one tame a mage?
     
  7. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Tamers in PvP aren't overpowered. Their tames are what are over-powered...la
     
  8. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
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    Only animal that is overpowered are some of the bane dragons. i shouldnt get hit for 50 points in one shot.
     
  9. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    Why shouldn't you? Not taking up for Pet pvp but if you look at everything else the damage isn't that op.

    When an archer AIs me with a hit spell/velocity bow..that's upwards of 50 damage. Thanks to reforging and legendary artifacts that damage is every 1.25 seconds.

    When a scribe mage flamestrikes me, it's high damage.

    When a ninja hits me with deathstrike, that's 45-50 damage.

    Pets alone are dealing far less damage than other pvp templates.
     
  10. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    burst dps from a tamer can be 70 or more tho. thats a pretty big difference. Plus the added hp of the pet.

    Tamers would be more balanced if the pet did not count as a player, meaning an AI shouldnt be capped at 35 for a pet since its not a player.

    keep in mind, dread mares and greater dragons were never meant to be tamed. it was a bug that the devs left in because too many people had tamed them before it was caught. if you dont believe me research it yourself :)
     
    #10 Smoot, Mar 10, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
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  11. icm420

    icm420 Seasoned Veteran
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    dreads were from awhile back, but I'm not sure it was a bug that you could tame them. You chucked a bola at the guy riding the dread and then dragged the dread off to get tamed. I think the bug was you could tame the thing easily threw a bola.. if I recall at that time we had jeremey in charge and she didn't care what happened in game. Eventually she was fired because she was attempting to run two games at once and didn't give a crap about uo. She was a big tamer person tho and since her departure we have not had a good taming addition.

    the greater drags not being tamable is interesting and actually makes a lot of sense to me.. but i vaguely recall them doing that to maintain a tamer as a viable farmer.

    as for pvp and pets.. it's fine. The archers doing the huge AI dumps is wayyy more ******** then any pet in pvp.
     
  12. Flagg

    Flagg Sage

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    "Do mage templates have too much power in PvP?" has been much more valid question to ask for..what, 17 years?
     
  13. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Some of these dexer-tamers have picked up parry and they're close to impossible to kill. You can disarm them but they'll still parry away.

    Parry needs to be re-worked.
     
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  14. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    i guess this topic is coming up again because its becoming easy to add in 100 skill points?
     
  15. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Shouldn't you be out walking your dog? ;) Tamer!
     
  16. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
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    AI is capped at 35....

    A flamestrike is also about 35 with 60 fire resist.

    The EO deathstrike is crap, and should be nerfed. I have had multiple DS do 70 points each with an EO.

    The balance is the chance of missing with RNG. Pets are 100%.

    Thanks for the opinion though.
     
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  17. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    pls don't

    It'll end up ruining the skill in PvM and **** hits hard enough as is.
     
  18. WayneFromMC

    WayneFromMC Visitor

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    you don't know what you are talking about
     
  19. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    This is some of the worst arguments I've ever heard.

    First off the "chance" your pet does anything other than something seriously stupid is beyond insane. Every once in a GREAT while a pet gets off a good combo. Truth is you can't control what your pet is going to do. Most the time it's doing seriously stupid stuff like casting str, bless and other silly stuff on itself. And then it starts attacking guy A who's attacking you then turns and attacks guy B who accidentally hit it or something meanwhile guy A is killing you. In the event your pet actually gets off a decent combo with or without another pet helping is pretty lame. And a Greater Dragon is hardly a threat as it moves slow as heck... Any fool could outrun it on foot even.

    And pissing with Tamers in PvP kills the template for PvM. In PvM a vast majority of other templates do FAR greater damage in a MUCH shorter amount of time than a Tamer EVER could. My archer does 222 or more a hit over and over and over again. A good mage can do close to that over and over... with WoD and other spells a mage can outdamage a tamer any day of the week. Throwers do so much more damage than a tamer it's not even funny... And once again it comes into play that most pets don't do anything like a mage would. They waste their mana constantly on stupid spells... And it's not like you can tell them what spells to cast or what moves to make. Can't tell them to firebreath. So the argument is silly and ridiculous.

    If anything tamers need a boost of better alternatives to the Greater Dragon. With the "newer" mobs and dungeon revamps most tamers pets are cut down in a matter of seconds. No amount of Vet or healing can help you... and most newer mobs you can't get close enough to your pet to Vet it without taking a MASSIVE beating. Casting Greater Heal on your pet only heals the damage by 4% on a Greater Dragon. Hardly going to heal up or keep your dragon healed when many of the larger mobs are doing 10% damage to your pet in the time it takes you to heal up 8% it's a losing game. And god forbid your pet gets poisoned in there and you have to cast Greater Cure as just a cure won't do most the time. So then your pet is down by 20% before you can heal 4%.... So don't BS me about tamers being overpowered that's a myth and a lie. And that tamer probably just got lucky with a combo on you. Bake and many other pets that might be nice are EASILY killed they hardly have any HP. I have two 100% fully trained Wolf Spiders. And while they can take someone down insanely fast.... they also DIE insanely fast. They are very quick at what they do but they don't last 2 seconds in a real fight if they had 2x the HP they do they might be a somewhat decent pet to use in PvP... but since most folk can pretty much 1 hit kill them they aren't really a threat and a good fighter doing a Whirlwind or something will kill both of them instantaneously ... making them useless.

    Raptors used to be fun and a good alternative pet to use in PvP but they got hit with the nerf bat and now are just a cute pet that does NOTHING. Totally useless in PvP. They should still be allowed to "call" one of their duplicates. 2 was slightly overpowering especially if someone had 2 raptors that gave them 6 of the little devils... but 4 aren't that threatening as a general rule. But since they can't call up any duplicates anymore they basically the same or worse than a Frenzied Ostard. Runebeetle/Bake used to be a great combo.... but again it only works if the pet actually DOES it's good moves. Like the insane poison of a Rune Beetle. And doing that combo puts the tamer on foot much like a greater dragon unless they are a gargoyle .... but the Beetles are also slow...

    I find your argument flawed.
     
  20. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    You recall incorrectly, Jeremy was the community liaison, she never ran UO. She left in November '08.

    You might be thinking if Jeff Skalski, the "Ultima franchise producer" that nearly ran the IP into the ground with U4E. Or possibly even the producer from before Jeff, Calvin Crowner, who strung people along with mythic "spreadsheet o'cheaters" and the classic shard nonsense. Before them, the one driving the devs was Draconi, but that was back in 2009 when it was more than a skeleton crew.
     
  21. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    Also... Dread mares were meant to be tamed, but bolaing the vanguard controller off of them was the bug. The vanguard was meant to be killed first, which would then allow you to tame the horse.

    I also fail to see greater dragons as being a bug. They were introduced in pub 50.
     
  22. OREOGL

    OREOGL Babbling Loonie
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    I can tell from your well thought out and fact filled post that I clearly don't know what I'm talking about...

    Oh, wait...
     
  23. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Slightly Crazed

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    Hmmm

    Dexxers cry about parry/scribe/wrestle, Mages cry about 210 archers/throwers and both cry about tamers.

    I really don't understand how I am one of the only ones that feels this game is really balanced right now...

    Tamers do need new tamables, but nothing that can surpass DM and Bane for pvp. If anything duplicate and give em a new look...
     
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  24. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
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    My only complaint.....and I am shocked it hasn't been raised is garg tamers shouldn't be able to fly when they use a greater dragon...they should be limited to foot speed. Flying should take um a mount slot on the template.
     
  25. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Why? Gargoyles can't HOP on their mount and run off... they can't hop on a mount at all.... which puts them at a massive disadvantage for some things... giving them a wee boost and the ability to fly is just fine.... also remember that the dragon lumbers along at the slow walking pace it always has whether your flying about at mounted speed or not..... it only lumbers along at the same pace regardless.
     
  26. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
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    No one can hop on or off a mount when they have a grt dragon. And flying is traveling at mounted speeds so gargs have no need to "mount up". It seems clear you are unfamiliar with PVP tamers ...grt dragons also mover at increased speeds when attacking. None of your comments hold water or make any sense. How is flying ever a disadvantage??? That is truly rich!
     
  27. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    A couple of the tamers I fight regularly on LS use them. I have had no problems whatsoever beating the ever-loving crap out of their bane dragons. It's a simple matter of grabbing my dragon slayer, then spamming ebolt/evil omen combos until it drops.

    It doesn't bother my offense at all since I can't pvp on a dexer (yet, I just need to learn how), but having played with parry for a few months now, I agree. Even at 56 dex I've had guys complain about whiffing 20+ times. If I chug an agility pot? I'm at 86 dex, so forget about hitting me.
     
  28. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Boy talk about not knowing jack.... or reading comprehension...... OK let me explain this. Yes a Gargish tamer can FLY big whooping deal.... they can be bola'd and shot down out of the sky just like anyone else on a mount... Yes ALL Pets move at greater speeds when you FIRST command them to attack something... after that they move at ONE speed..... SLOW. A DRagon slayer will solve your issue with GD's..... BUT Gargoyle Tamers can't "hop on" their dread mare and run away..... They can't. So they are LIMITED..... Any other "decent" tamer will use a Bane or a Dread they can HOP ON... and run you down and hop OFF and kick your a$$ if you are having trouble with Gargish tamers they are LIMITED in how fast the Dragon moves. And if you had a Dragon Slayer.... they wouldn't be as big of a problem as you make out...

    No they don't have to "mount up" to be at mounted speed.... but then also they can't run off with their pet as quickly either... That pet is going to move at ONE speed SLOW. You can EASILY separate a Gargish Tamer from his pet.... if you can't then your doing it wrong and that's probably more your problem than the Tamer.

    And I've seen NON-Tamers hop on and off their mounts at warp speed to avoid bola's and all sorts of stuff. Cry me a river over gargoyles being able to get back in the air... So what if other tamers can't do that with a Greater Dragon.... They sure as shoot can do that with a Bane and they sure as shoot can do that with a Dread.... Which a GARGOYLE CAN NOT. That was my argument... and if you had reading comprehension you would have REALIZED that. So Gargoyle tamers have the field advantage with a Greater Dragon.... that's where that advantage ENDS. With any other combination of pet/mounts they are at the BIGGEST DISADVANTAGE.

    *rolls eyes*
     
  29. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    Simple fix for that. It's called dismount/remount macros. If I see a bola, I'll immediately hit my dismount macro. I hit my remount macro right after. Avoiding dismounts from dexers is a bit harder, but not impossible. However, it's something I don't usually worry about, since dismount tamers are only truly effective in a group.

    In fact, on both Atl & LS, only two tamers have been able to kill me 1v1. One was due to my own stupidity in a Despise fight, but the other was a couple months ago in Destard, which @The Griefer King can confirm, whenever he sees this. I attacked his greater and ended up dying to it 1v1. He hadn't issued any commands or attacked me, nor was he even on my screen when I died. We both laughed about it, but it was still somewhat embarrassing. :)
     
  30. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    My Greater has gotten off a kill or two while I wasn't looking... LOL sometimes to "friendly fire".... Especially when we are doing a Rikki and friends mistake him for a wild dragon.
     
  31. TimberWolf

    TimberWolf Babbling Loonie
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    dude I wasnt taking about banes or dreads...I was talking about flying with a grt dragon. Only an idiot would claim it isnt. When I take my grt out...I am limit to running. When a garg takes one out they move at mount speed. Only a complete moron can't see that as an advantage! I was comparing two apples you keep bringing pineapples and grape fruit into the equation in a lame attempt to justify your view point.
     
  32. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I'm saying that it's a TRADE OFF for the GARGOYLE not being able to MOUNT a pet. So go moron yourself. Whoop dedoda! So he has an ADVANTAGE with ONE particular pet yet he's at a DISADVANTAGE with a hell of a lot more pets. So quit your crying. Nerfing him with that pet makes it so GARGOYLES CAN'T be a tamer at all there is NO reason you'd want a Gargish Tamer EVER since they would basically be F****d with EVERY pet.
     
  33. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    Only change I would like to see is the inability for a pet to auto-stable if it (or its owner) is flagged as an aggressor. No more run and hide then log to save the pet in PvP.
     
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  34. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I like that... ONLY if it's applied to PvP.... it should NEVER effect PvM or Trammel... Killing a stinking Mongbat should NOT make me or anyone have to wait out the stupid "aggressor" timer. But I do agree that it's a lame way to PvP.
     
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  35. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    Personally, I think the time out flag related to PvM should be removed completely.
     
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  36. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Oh I agree 100% it's silly and serves no real purpose. Monsters don't care if I log out and swap characters to come back and fight. And honestly most the time I'm not doing that. I'm trying to ignore the mob and get home and swap characters for some OTHER reason than I didn't want to kill a corpser today.
     
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  37. icm420

    icm420 Seasoned Veteran
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    I'm thinking of Draconi and the skeleton crew then, i remember the jeff guy and I remember calvin, it wasn't them. Jeremey definitely sticks with me because it's such an odd name for a woman. At either rate, I can recall a ton of tamers around that time, then rather quickly they all seemed to dry up. Granted sampires (and other pvm focused temps) took over a large portion of farming, but to me taming has been a staple of UO and it hasn't had much love in the past few years. The bane dragon was basically due to the pvpers pancakes about dreads non stop. It kind of shut them up.

    I don't believe a tamer should be the go to farmer of old but I sure miss seeing the dragons all over, and people training pets everywhere you go, etc. Yah you still see it sometimes but not like it had been. That little glitch with pets going wild sure didn't help either.

    As for gargs having to be on foot for a greater.. no no no. Jeez gargs already have a hard enough time, that would mean they can't throw an RC while flying (which is there god damn birthright!) and flying with a greater is a big advantage. Each race has racial abilities, night sight isn't a big deal now but that was amazing when it was new, and every elf can be 50DCI while staying the same resist as a human. Humans have had the JoaT mana reduction nerfed but that was a huge advantage for a long time, but I human track like crazy, I human spellweave, human parry etc etc. No let the gargs fly with 5 followers, it doesn't hurt