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Do you think hidden/invis characters should get arty drops?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Prince Caspian, Jun 22, 2009.

  1. I would say no. I think it would go a long way to clean up unattended tamer .

    If you want the drop, expose yourself to dying. Take a risk like the rest of us. If you are indestructably invisible, you can set up your dragon and then go to bed and wake up in the morning to a pack full of arties.

    I mean devs, if you refuse to punish unattended players, at least take this simple step that makes it more difficult for them.
     
  2. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    No, there's absolutely no way this makes sense, at all.
     
  3. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    NO. If your right hand isn't on the mouse your not playing the game.
     
  4. Harb

    Harb Guest

    Sure they should, but....
    1) That's not the issue as I see it, unattended play is. Nothing is to say a hidden player is unattended, nothing is to say a visible player is attended.
    2) I agree with what I believe to be your point, that unattended play should be penalized. Where there seems some room for discussion is on what the process should be, and what the penalty is :)
     
  5. I agree 100%. I know I'm picking on tamers today (and please realize, I know there are PLENTY of tamers out there who are quite active when they play, it's just a few that are exploiting it), but I must say, out of the 20 or so drops I got so far (yeah, I dont play for hours on end), EVERY SINGLE ONE, every single monster, the screen had my attention, I was moving the mouse, I was clicking and targetting -- I was PLAYING THE GAME.

    Just watching the screen on autopilot so you don't get busted in the off chance a GM shows up to question if you are there DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE PLAYING.
     
  6. ElRay

    ElRay Guest


    A request to the devs. This is precious.

    They ALLOW people to script and hack and cheat.......didnt you get the mempo?....er I mean memo?

    People, please go buy a clue....the devs do not, I repeat DO NOT CARE.
     
  7. kantoska

    kantoska Guest

    How is a tamer sitting there unattended any different than a mage with EVs or a dexxer. Sorry, this is just more tamer hate that neither addresses nor fixes the problem
     
  8. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    Unattended farming is NOT limited to hidden tamers by ANY stretch.

    That being said, I don;t agree that being hidden should eliminate the chance at getting a Minor drop, however it SHOULD negatively affect it by significantly lowering the rate at which they drop.
     
  9. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Unattended farming is the problem, but a tamer with a greater dragon being hidden is the absolute easiest way to get artifacts, unattended or not. You don't have to do anything. At least with a mage or dexer there's a chance of dying.
     
  10. Dragonchilde

    Dragonchilde Guest

    So, are you saying left-handed players aren't playing the game, and people who primarily use the keyboard aren't playing the game?

    I just spent the last half-hour smacking a key on my keyboard repeatedly. Didn't touch my mouse once.Did I not play the game?

    I get your intent, I do... but when stating such narrow definitions, it begs a smart-ass reply.
     
  11. Your 2-days-to-build melee character should never be equal to my months-to-build tamer.
     
  12. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    XD. No. Just no.
     
  13. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    Your 2-days-to-build melee character should never be equal to my months-to-build tamer.

    Quoth the Great Bob: "I disagree with what you said"
     
  14. I don't think it's fair that a melee character can just stand there without being hidden and the monsters just die!! It's crazy!1! My tamer has to run but the unattended melee characters stand right in one spot and the monsters don't even hurt them!! it should be outlawed and banned!!
     
  15. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    So lets get what your saying right.

    I am at a spawn with My UO, GODLY, ALL POWERFUL GREATER DRAGON, THAT CAN 1 HIT KILL EVERY THING Tamer.

    Right?

    Now a MoB spawns before my GODLY 1 HIT KILLING GREATER DRAGON CAN KILL THE CURRENT MOB.

    So I MUST, according to you, accept the aggro of the new Mob, and either wait for it to kill me (I assume you some how think my tamer (the character NOT THE PET) = YOUR GODLY WARRIOR) OR Run around and collect all the other spawns and leave my GODLY 1 HIT GREATER DRAGON ALONE, Killing EVERY THING I BRING IT. Wow, I bet the other players will LOVE ME FOR DOING THAT.

    Because for SURE YOU DO NOT WANT ME TO HIT THE HIDE BUTTON OR THE INVISIBILITY BUTTON TO AVOID THAT AGGRO.

    *Shakes Head* What Ever ......

    You do not like that YOUR CHOICE of play style, MAY SUCK, when compared to some one elses choice of play style, in a SPECIFIC SITUATION. So yeah lets exclude every one but YOU and those that made choices that YOU CAN COMPETE WITH, in a VERY SPECIFIC SITUATION. :thumbsup:
     
  16. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    My tamer uses luck armor. With 41 54 31 26 28 "protection" I have to invis and hide often. I also die much more frequently on my tamer than I do on any other temp I have.
    I still fail to see why everyone should be punished because you are mad at a few that have questionable play styles.
     
  17. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    A stealther isn't likely to have any super-efficient method of killing creatures. A powergamer (from nolife through unattended) has other tools in their arsenal to get a steady rate of return. So I don't think nerfing one ability is going to improve the "fairness" any.

    On the other hand, logs of these events could offer the devs the potential to create a wonderful database crossreferencing different skills/players vs rates of point-gain.

    *logs in to start hunting for drop number six*
     
  18. Stigmatas

    Stigmatas Babbling Loonie
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    LAAWWWLLS!


    I totally agree with what Dermott said ;)



    Hell both my tamers took less than 2 days to become viable hunters ;)....thats what advanced char tokens are for Bob!

    Rofflecakes ;)
     
  19. WizzaX

    WizzaX Journeyman
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    ZOMGBBQ Nerf Sampires!

    They just don`t die i tell ya!

    :D
     
  20. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    My tamer uses luck armor. With 41 54 31 26 28 "protection"

    Let me know when a melee character can ever use this with the same results.

    IMO, Luck was the worst implemented Mod in AOS. The premise was higher rewards through Luck came with greater risk (lower resists). In reality, the templates that MITIGATED risk completely best used Luck suits, NOT the templates that incurred the most risk.

    Fortunately, over the past few cycles this premise is being broken (the ring/bracelet combo, the mempo, robe of Equinox, and so on).

    Secondarily, I think an argument may be able to be made questioning the decision to allow pets become as strong as they are (self healing, allowing "greater" dragons to be tamed).

    But as I stated above, tamers are NOT the only problem. I remember ToT II when Dread Spiders were camped 24/7 by slayer wielding melee characters (since they could be dropped in a hit or two).
     
  21. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    I do not think unattended players should get arties. But I use invisible very often. It runs out in a few minutes so I cant just leave my keyboard.

    I use it because ronins hit my for 30 damage because of my crappy suit. They also find me.

    So, to answer the heading. YES!
     
  22. athos_uo

    athos_uo Seasoned Veteran
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    The system of 10th Anniversary items has following features(here):
    It might be good, if this system were also applied to ToT:III.
     
  23. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Does anyone think there's a possibility that Mesanna and the GMs are using this event as a chance to catch some AFK arti farmers? Who's to say that they haven't been quietly tracking the use of sending bags for the last couple of months to find the AFK gold farmers and this event now gives them a chance to catch farmers of another type? Wouldn't it give the upcoming expansion a boost if EA announced the banning of a number of "farmers" before the end of the summer?

    There's also been an unexplained patch or two in the last few months. So, who's to know if the developers haven't been working on something to monitor how long a particular IP is logged into UO and a method of checking out the situation?
     
  24. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    Lets clean up the unattended melee chars first. They are harder to spot then say a gd.

    I bet the unattended melee players out number the tamers.

    I can probably make a few assumptions about how you play too, given how loud you are about the subject.
     
  25. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    Nah, I doubt that. I think it's more of a situation of "Guys we're up against it fictionwise and need something quick to placate the masses that are complaining about not getting into Beta for a while" than "Let's set a trap for unattended players". AT least that's what I'm going by unless or until they say otherwise.
     
  26. GreywolfUK

    GreywolfUK Sage
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    No they should get nothing, be it tamer, warrior, or any other template you want want to name.
     
  27. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    You don't think Mark Jacobs would take some delight in being able to make an announcement about banning a significant number of cheaters in UO?
     
  28. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    He might if he remembers that he has UO under his umbrella, but I really don't think that is the motive for ToT 3.
     
  29. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    No I don't think they should..... and Tamers (Yes I'm a Tamer too) Shouldn't get them if they aren't near their pet... ie within say 10 tiles..
     
  30. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    I'm in favor of the version for 10th Anniversary artifacts listed above... lesser points for hidden, no points beyond a certain range from pet.
     
  31. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Hey wizzax. We both hunt in the same area lately in the champ spawn. I've seen you if thats you same name sampire I believe. These people are just crazy don't you think? Good events like this bring out the worst in people on both side of the fence. Nerf everything lol because of a small event that for some reason Im sure neither of us are having any troubles with.
     
  32. Which doesn't address the hordes of melee characters that sit at the dread spider spawn or the orcs, never moving, never looting, just killing...
     
  33. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    Dread Spiders have been beefed up considerably, but the desert area I will concede VERY quickly (and have throughout this debate).

    But that's why I like the Mines... a melee character pretty much HAS to be attentive to stay alive, so those people are rarely if ever there, and on LS, the tamers that have gone there have been good people (and present).

    Maybe have Auto-Defend act in the same way as Hiding in terms of the system?
     
  34. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    I do not think it makes any sense to try to contriver clever little schemes to try to punish people. You always get innocent people far more often than you get ... as was eluded to, the Power Gamer. These people simply know how to analyze the specific scenario (i.e. the clever little schemes) and bypass them so they are not caught.

    If we the community do not want unattended game play, then we the community had better swallow some darn bitter pills. Like the Luna no log out, why do people do this? To protect some summoned thing .... perhaps a Spell Weaver Focus?

    We the community need to determine when the BABY is worth throwing out with the bath water.
     
  35. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    Well until we can convinve EA/Mythic to give UO enough funding to hire a BUNCH of GMs to police the shards, we're prettly much SOL... and unless UO's sub numbers have DRASTICALLY gone up, the extra GMs aren't happening.
     
  36. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Not so, Developed sampire on the right spot is no problem as long as he doesnt go down to the fire beattle area. But thats just the mines there so many other places. But really who cares sampire,tamer,mage,necro wither, It doesn't matter. Play and have fun. If you focus on nerfing templates then those templates will focus on nerfing other templates and etc..

    The war of the templates. First is hiding and invis, next is poison, next is can't receive rewards if creature is already damaged by wither, next is can't receive anything in dungeons, next in can't receive anything unless you wear 1000 luck and don't move from youre spot, next is you have to move every sec, next is using any type of healing on youre self will cause no tot drops, next is peace doesnt work etc...
    Such alot of hassle for a 1 month event really where everyone here will have a horde of the items by the time it's over.
     
  37. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Amen ....

    I am on a low population shard and part of why I did not go back to the Balron in the Fan Dancer was that almost every spot was filled with some one(s). He he, it is conceivable that 10%+ of the shard population was there :)
     
  38. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    This is How you get a true measure of the shard population. Just head to tokuno in your given shard and 100% of the population of active players will pop there of that shard for the week.All other facets will be pretty empty during a event like this. At least for the first week.
     
  39. kantoska

    kantoska Guest

    I was actually surprised, that people weren't Totally locked in on ToT. I tried running a rat at Ice west and still got raided, and it was early in the morning too. I wasnt sure whether to be mad or happy about the active pop.
     
  40. Cazzador

    Cazzador Guest

    Another I hate tammers thread..... Please drive through nothing to see.
     
  41. DevilsOwn

    DevilsOwn Stratics Legend
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    I'm liking this, too, but the one problem I have with the whole thing is the support people in a large hunting group. Get to a busy spot and your healers can probably cast ev's but in a tight spot I would expect them to hide or invis and because they are contributing to the group effort do not wish to see them awarded at a lesser rate for that.
     
  42. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Hiding & Stealth are legitimate skills to have and use & shouldn't incur a penalty any more than using a pet should.

    If hidden tamers are the problem you're trying to address, I say make it so you don't get kill credit unless you specifically command your pet to kill + target the mob. But that would upset "legitimate" tamers, would be like taking away auto-defend from warriors.. which is my point re: hiding/stealth.

    There is no "risk" or "earning" to be had in pvm. Should samurai be penalised for using bushido + parry to make them effectively invincible? Should tamers miss out on ToT for using pets as a meat shield? Mages for using summons? Healers for using bandages/pots/petals/apples? There is no one "true" playstyle and you can't use some vague notion of "honorable" combat to try & hang balance on them.
     
  43. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    To bad the devs can't put a code in that if your character stands on one tile without moving for 15 minutes off that spot your automaticly get logged out. this would stop some of this unattented macroing , because you would have to be there to move your character off that one tile before the 15 minutes is up.
     
  44. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    I thought this was already the case, no?
     
  45. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Constant respawn and other such "activity" prevent logout regardless of any action done by the player, as long as a new name shows up on screen, the character will not time out (unless the actual connection is severed).
     
  46. bioras

    bioras Journeyman
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    Ah thanks. Guess I never really tried it.
     
  47. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Also note that a pet, if not given instruction, will typically go out of "guard" or "kill" mode and turn blue (instead of green) after a few minutes. Pets that are blue to their owners do not give fame, karma or points from their kills to their owner...
     
  48. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Do you think any of the Unattended people are not scripting or doing something of the sort? Honestly it would not be hard for them to script all kill, or just all kill hide show repeat, all kill *if targeted cast invis* hide all kill hide show. Seriously you all are trying to attack legit players not people who are afk, get a grip you want to be even with those legit players make a tamer yourself.

    And I'm sorry if I don't want to spend extra money on top of my already monthly fee for this game to have a char in two days, also advanced char tokens are not available readily all the time on all shards, also it is possible they don't pay for gold/items/anything with real money and don't play 24/7 like yourself, so don't try to compare the rate a warrior can be finished to the rate a tamer can be finished, lets do it logically. If you actually got 1 gain per try that would mean from 0-100 a warrior would need 1250 seconds to get to 100, slightly under 21 mins, a tamer with the same notation from 80-100 would need 2400 seconds, so even from 80-100 a tamer needs double the time to train to 100 that a warrior needs to get from 0-100, Obviously those numbers are not accurate as you don't get 1 gain per attempt but that only makes the gap worse.
     
  49. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Hey lets not let the Peace Tamers (one of my tamer types) skate on this .... punishment kick.

    I mean come on I peace a Mob OR GOD forbid I Area peace .... pfeeet were is the risk in that and how totaly easy it is to script that so we all know Peace Tamers are AFK Macroers.

    So no lets get those Nasty Peace Tamers as well.

    I know, we could FORCE the Tamers to CONSTANTLY Vet their pets, regardless of them needing it or not and ACTUALLY consume a Bandage when a HEAL IS NOT NEEDED. That way we can force the Nasty Tamers out of the Coveted Spawn Spot. I mean FORCEING them to Vet the Pet FORCES them to be visible, within just a few steps and FORCES them to LEAVE THE SPAWN SPOT.

    Oh but wait, there is the Healing Tamers, No Problem, we FORCE them to be within 2 squares of the pet for the Heal to take and we FORCE the consumption of the reagents for Heal to be used, regardless of the LRC value, that way we STILL FORCE THEM TO LEAVE THE COVETED SPAWN SPOT.
     
  50. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    Yes that is if your idle, and there is no action on the screen. What Im saying is if your doing an action like fighting a golem and you have been on the one tile for 15 minutes your character automaticly logs out.