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Do you want the Old Idoc System Back the Way it was!! Lets show the Devs

Discussion in 'UHall' started by AtlanticRealtor, Sep 6, 2014.

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Do you want the Old Idoc System Back the Way it was!! Lets show the Devs

  1. YES!!!! Bring Back Please

    30.7%
  2. NO

    69.3%
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  1. AtlanticRealtor

    AtlanticRealtor ICQ 647752375
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    PLEASE DEVS AND @Mesanna , Listen what the people want!!!

    I will use @THP words my Word!!

    "Please return it back to the old system that was fully operational...if its not broken ..it dont need fixing...Before u could time the fall so to stop needless waiting times at the end of the decay [this was the hard part and finding them- jesus!!!]....and further more when u moved house u knew exactly how much time to the second u had to move your stuff....b4 filling the old house with junk for the rest of the happy idoc crew to be disappointed again.

    Theres nothing gained with a random system..just chaos....i would love to hear why the devs have implemented this unwarranted of changes....the old system worked mighty fine...again why fix something that was never ever broken""
     
  2. Scribbles

    Scribbles Babbling Loonie
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    I have a lot of words for this, but I will reserve myself as they arent very nice. Hoping we get a response from the devs or @Mesanna telling us that it was a big joke. The game just hasnt been as much fun lately with no one at the idocs to fight... :(
     
  3. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    New system is fine.

    Nothing in UO is set. Random is nice and fits in.

    The hard part is finding them. Haha. I can cover all of UO by hand no scripts in two days or less... Part time. Being full cycle five days nothing will still be missed.. BUT. I won't get to each one. Choosing some for others... Based on the gut.

    Nothing gained with the New system... Common... Its more like EVERYTHING gained with the last system. Before the change i could personally attend every single idoc. Now I miss some because nothing is set to the clock.

    No offence but be real. Before you could schedule out the exact time of a drop. Now .. Well you miss some... Which means more for others.

    Why not share and break the monopoly.
     
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  4. Lord Obsidian

    Lord Obsidian Journeyman
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    Voted yes. I think the new system only encourages ppl to use "automated ways" of monitoring IDOCs, while honest players are supposed to stare at the screen for days without having the slightest chance of knowing when the house is going to fall.
     
  5. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    People before still use automated ways to find them.. Mark the exact time... Know to the second when they are gonna fall. There is nothing to do about scripters.
     
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  6. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    At least with this New method they don't cover all of them... They dont know the exact time... Thus cant cover them all. Think about it.
     
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  7. Krinkle

    Krinkle Journeyman
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    I like random things. As to the scare about this new way will encourage automation, it no longer matters. That ship has sailed years back when the EA failed to do anything to stop it from occurring.
     
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  8. flappy6

    flappy6 Sage
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    there should be a time count down on the house sign that says how much time is left, they change the rules for idocs so many times who really knows what the rules are
     
  9. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    I have a lot of thoughts behind this change, and I'll try to be a neutral as possible in my explanation. But I think it should stay how it is now.

    I have been idocing for 10 years. I consider myself to be a casual idocer. I don't scout twice a week anymore.. and I look for idocs when I feel like it. But I will post what I have observed the past year WITH the OLD system.

    A lot of people are claiming that this will only encourage scripting... Seriously? The past year alone I have been to SEVERAL idocs where 30 minutes before it falls, here comes the army of noob trial accounts coming in one at a time. All of these characters strategically place themselves next to different high end items in the idoc. What happens next? the house falls all.. ALL of those nice items you are hoping for dissapear before the (no longer locked down) spam clears your screen. You knew that they were all running item grab scripts.. so you page on them. But because the person knew the exact time of fall they have looted and logged off before GM's respond.

    Scenario two... 3 houses will be falling at some point today. And low and behold each house has a noob character under the house sign script reading the house sign to record the exact time each house will be falling. They don't have to invest any real time in to watching the house at all now. They just casually look at their computer and figure out via script that they need to focus and bring their friends at 8;05pm tonight.

    Now.. with the new system, I have missed a lot of houses. But the things listed above do not happen as often. And when I see the looting trial account army, they are now ported to jail before the house falls. They have to sit there long enough that the GM's have time to investigate.

    Idocing can be extremely profitable. I have had several houses in the past that have given me 3 billion + value of items. That being said, it should be more difficult to get that reward other then pushing "play" a few times. Idocs should be a lot of work, and idocs shouldn't be a easily exploited as they have been in the past. Yes it sucks that sometimes I miss them now once I find them... but you know what? I can live with that knowing that they are in-fact a lot more random now as they should be.
     
    #9 Giggles, Sep 6, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2014
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  10. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    sorry but WHHAAAAA, no you can only know exactly when it will fall if you hit it exactly when it first changes, after that the house sing just says it is in decay - YAAAAA, scripters are SOL :) gotta love it. now it is back to the way it was LONG ago, a house falls in the wild and if you walk by you get lucky not a place camped by 3 or more people who are scripting it or better yet have been watching and have learned within the hour when it will fall. :-(
     
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  11. Dregg

    Dregg Certifiable
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    I love the randomness. The crowds are low for idocs and keeps scriptors having to guess which house they need to be at. Keep the current system rolling.
     
  12. Cyrah

    Cyrah Lore Keeper
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    Either way. As long as the devs stop all scripts. All.
     
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  13. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    Random is nice! Goodbye to the recal in a minute before it falls, fetch the good items and recal out. Or, the scripters that know when it dropps. Lets have a totally random time, its just perfect - makes idoc's available for anyone in the game in a different way.
     
  14. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    when something is easily predicted / calculated those who put in an little extra effort will always come out on top.
    the devs have seem to confirmed that this is not how the path they view for ultima online.
    we saw this in the event drop changes this past april.

    So, whether i agree or not with this specific issue i do agree that if the devs are to be consistent with ultima online it should be random.

    By taking this middle of the road approach the devs cater to and promote:

    Casual gamers (which i think is there intention)
    illegal cheat programs (a bi-product of good intentions)
     
    #14 Smoot, Sep 6, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2014
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  15. popps

    popps Always Present
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    That's a good point.........
     
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  16. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    In my opinion it just means that random folk will start to find piles of loot. More for everyone. Less for those who used to script time everything out. Works for me.
     
  17. Scribbles

    Scribbles Babbling Loonie
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    So many things to say and not a single nice or legal way to say it... Ill let you guys have your moment for now. I will say this. The random times, arent so random...
     
  18. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    More importantly, i think this topic displays the state of decay (no pun intended) the game as a whole is in.

    OSI UO is only still alive because it has come down to a virtual wealth game. Nothing more.
    If you disagree with me, i dont know why your here and not on a free shard that has equal/better gameplay but 0 monthly cost.
    Ill admit, im only here because the virtual wealth im accumulated and continue to accumulate makes paying the monthly sub worth it.

    This change does not effect primary gameplay (pvm, pvp, crafting, anything skill based)

    Its about virtual wealth, and who gets that wealth.

    Seeing that this is a hot topic, along with the other major wealth creating elements in UO like event drops, shows why people are really playing.

    Keep in mind that every idoc that is found and looted, is one less person who cares enough about the game even to save their stuff.

    Each falling house is one step closer to the eventual IDOC of Ultima Online itself.
     
  19. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    I'm not sure what you are trying to gain by being vague like this. But in comparison to before they are very random. let me roleplay for a second.

    Under the old system lets pretend I script right? OK I find idocs every week. Each day maybe 1 to 4 houses fall right? I have 15 trial accounts that I use for looting because I can. So today I have 3 houses falling. I am going to set up my scripts, go eat lunch and come back and figure out when they turned idoc. OK I'm back! Fantastic! The marble house is falling at 4:53pm, The castle is falling at 5:15, and the fel 18x18pm is falling at 5:45pm today. I am going to icq all of my red friends and let them know they need to be at the fel 18x18 at 5:30pm because it will fall at 5:45pm. At 4:30 I am taking my trial account army to the marble house. Once they loot I will log off and take my second trial account army to the castle.
    Wow Look at all this loot I got! Wow nice, all my friends are at the fel idoc killing the other idocers there! Cool! Im going to go loot that one by hand while everyone else is fighting.

    Now.. explain to me how THIS scenario is possible under the new system...
    With the new system the MOST I can do is set up a couple accounts at each house to notify me when it falls. I cannot prep or prepare my pvp friends.. nor can I prep all of my trial accounts without fear that the GM's will send them to jail before the house even falls.

    If we are discussing what helps scripters the most.. the previous system by far is the most ideal.

    Just my two cents.
     
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  20. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Not really, sometimes a falling house gives room for new life. A player town with a lot ghost houses are a half dead town.

    Maybe we need a new system, where players can pay half the fee a month for an inactive account with a storage box in their bank, where they can send all their items from their house, if they are taking a break from the game. Then they can sell the house or take it down. Sending the items to the storage box should make the house start to decay. When they are back and start to pay full price, they can place a new house and the storage box will become a moving box in new house.
     
  21. Scribbles

    Scribbles Babbling Loonie
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    Just so its clear.

    The new system is working out just fine for me. There have been a ton less people at the idocs and im looting more than ever.

    However, it hasnt been as much fun, there arent as many people to talk to or to fight. (tram vs fel)

    Regardless of how you feel about cheating, its going to happen in this sytem, the old system, and the next system.... debating how a system affects such acts is pointless IMO and probably not a good idea in general.

    Ultimate goal in every decision for UO the game is to either increase player base or at the very least keep player base. I think the new system is decreasing player base.

    That is all.
     
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  22. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    Any decrease that lets a player, who as stated is /has been playing for a while to make $, leave because it is harder now for him is AWSOME. TTFN DLTDHYOTA and so on and so on.

    Cant wait for CC to finally die off and one client get worked on :)
     
  23. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    I like the change - but I think one more needs to be made. As soon as the house begins the first stage of the IDOC process, the house should be made automatically private. Scripters should not be able to pre-tag items for their scripts to loot, etc. This would also help free up the process for everyone.
     
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  24. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    This idea is amazing.
     
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  25. James Moriarty

    James Moriarty Journeyman
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    Careful what you wish for! If the CC dies a lot of people will leave and it may well be the death of the game.
     
  26. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    I'm not sure what server you idoc on.. but right now I have a couple of people teaching me chinese on yamato because none of us have any idea when this stupid house will fall.. LOL.
    If anything we have a lot more time to socialize now =)
     
  27. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
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    No they won't, it will all decay too fast for anyone to stubble upon on most servers and the ones running around looking are already IDOCers.
     
  28. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
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    Except the full cycle isn't 5 days, it's 3. So after you are taking 2 days to run, you have 1 day until you have to run again to cover. You are missing 2 days worth of IDOCs. You have to work harder than the scripters to run so they don't care. You still think it's fine?
     
  29. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    Strange that the Dev Statements in the last couple of days confirm that it is 5 days. Do you have evidence to the contrary? If so - I'd suggest sending it to [email protected] as Bleak suggested in another thread.
     
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  30. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
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    Yes, I posted in the other thread the exact timeline of a house decay cycle, it is most definitely 3 days for the houses I've been camping on Pacific, GL and Atl. If you look at Bleak's post he was replying to someone who knew the account names of the houses effected in their post. I don't know the account info of the IDOCs I camp.
     
  31. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    If you have shard, coordinates, and times, I'd guess it can be looked at through backups and might provide helpful info as they can possibly restore the backup on an internal server and watch the process unfold if need be.
     
  32. Gedgerez Tesherd

    Gedgerez Tesherd Journeyman

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    All locked down/placed contents (containers decay to 0/0 items) inside decaying homes need to decay themselves, with a chance to convert into rubble throughout the housing decay process until reaching 'In Danger Of Collapsing' stage. When the house falls, it could leave behind rubble parts (limited up to 20 max) shaped/colored pieces, allocated with the former housing structure/contents, which unlocks during the blocked placement. After which time, the remaining rubble completely crumbles upon finalizing placement on the plot.

    This is a great way to introduce new rubble structures, while also regulating the amount of greed (former owners possessions) players can accumulate from idocs. The greed of players ruined legitimacy about idocs long ago due to 3rd party programs (can't trust that someone isn't running a 3rd party program these days since cheating is rarely enforced). If the current idoc changes brought about any discomfort to cheaters, then I'm very happy, if to legit folk, then very sorry. Quite honestly, I would rather all housing contents completely decay, than reverting back to the former housing decay system (no more greed, deal with it :devil:).
     
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  33. jack flash uk

    jack flash uk Crazed Zealot
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    my guess would be that non idoc hunters like the change as it does not affect them, idocers, proper ones hate camping, and use game time to time idocs. I cannot imagine any idocers I remember liking this change
     
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  34. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    IMHO the best would be, if houses would be simply deleted with all their storage. Would remove lots of checks etc and other junk from the system.
    I never understood the motivation about IDOCs anyway:
    Running around the continets just looking for condemned houses I find tedious.
    Camping at said houses I find tedious.
    Quarreling with the other players about the items or containers where I most of the time don't even know the contents I find tedious.
    So yeah, I couldn't care less about IDOCs.
    Maybe it would have been wise, to add such an option to the poll, because people like me could vote for the one, you don't want them to vote for.
     
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  35. jack flash uk

    jack flash uk Crazed Zealot
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    indeed, and it made me laugh :)
     
  36. Voodoo Bad Mojo

    Voodoo Bad Mojo Lore Master
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    i voted no.

    in fact i think they should make it TOTALLY random.
    i think the RNG should come into play and it should be anywhere from 1 day to 14 days.
    house goes through its decay then the RNG sets a totally random time on it from a roll of the RNG dice and it drops then.

    this IDOC timer being so exact has always bothered me.
    everything else in this game is random why is the IDOC so exact.

    i also think spawn should randomly apear at IDOC's.
    like really, orcs and ettens and ogres like gold and loot to ya know!
     
  37. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    God to see you still around Jack!. Well I guess I might be termed a proper idocer as you will remember and as you also know I worked out the length of each stage and used to be in a position that, if I had the idoc early I could tell within an hour or two when a house would fall 3 days before it fell. That effort unfortunately is now worthless, so you are right I do not like this change. Having spent some fruitless hours watching (camping) during the final stage and giving up on some when I got bored; it is hardly worth the effort now and I should probably leave idocing to the ones who can leave a bot there to give an audible signal when a change occurs. That will of course not be the ordinary player.

    Over the years I have obtained so much stuff I no longer care whether I get anything or not, idocs for me were always Forest Gump's chocolate box, the surprise was everything. Win some, lose some, the fun was in the moment.
     
  38. jack flash uk

    jack flash uk Crazed Zealot
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    HELLO!!!!!! great to hear from you too :) real shame about the idocs, but even though I have been gone nearly 2 years? I still read the boards daily :) still hooked on DayZ. you can build and craft now so I am in heaven! be good and take care, sorry about the idoc changes they suck :(
     
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  39. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
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    Do you want to pay 10m for heritage tokens, 30mil for an ethy horse, or 90mil for an xfer token? If IDOCs stopped being a thing many items would be much more scarce and prices would skyrocket. Many of the best vendor houses in the game are stocked from IDOCs. People who don't do IDOCs don't realize how much IDOCing enables them to play and buy what they want from vendors.
     
  40. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    Not really. Gold would also leave game halting some of the rampant inflation and reducing prices. I don't see that it would have that much of an effect.
     
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  41. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    I love these threads, the scripters all chime in on how they hate the scripters. LOL Oh, and the people who supposedly don't cheat, yet they know exact cheat methods....just do like many have proposed, make the house and its contents decay at the same time. done
     
  42. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
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    Having done many thousands of IDOCs, I can honestly say gold is not looted as often as you think. Most people keep it in the bank not their houses so this is incorrect.
     
  43. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    The bank doesn't hold that much.
     
  44. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
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    /sigh

    Go ahead and ask the IDOCers of Stratics how much gold they loot in checks if you don't believe me. I bet the ratio is something crazy like 1 billion in items per 1 mil in checks. I'd guess only 1 house in probably 50 or more has any checks at all. The glut of gold in this game isn't from IDOCS its from duping and arena exploits that people used to generate gold for almost year before the Devs were told.
     
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  45. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    From my IDOC's, I have generally always gotten gold. And yes - there's been plenty of duping, etc so tons is running around the game. But it is there. Yes - there are more items than gold. But... there's also folk with tons of items that do play. I still don't see this causing massive inflation. It seems much more of a balancing action to me. More players to spread the stuff farther around. More leaving the game to remove a glut that lags the server, etc. I still see it as a good thing for everyone except for those who try to make a living off of it.
     
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  46. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    In my years of idocing I haven't really ever got much in gold. A few times I have picked up a few mill in checks and once a couple of years ago I got a chest with one hundred mill checks in. That said it can in no way compare with the value of items I have had. I once had a gold box with 16 server births in, the value of which must far exceed the total value of gold i have ever got from all of them. That is just one chest. I would be hard put to it to even try to estimate the value of all the items I have got at idocs, certainly it must be many many billions.

    One poster has already said that the things from idocs are recycled back into the game and for me this is certainly true. I have ALWAYS sold cheap on the grounds that it cost me nothing to start with. For example if an item is usually 4 million I sell for 3 so I get a good profit and the buyer gets good value. I also give a large amount of items away as my stock has always been too large and decreasing it a goal.

    Like so many in UO I became a hoarder and a bit of a rares collector, not in a big way but any rare item I have obtained I have always kept and displayed. Today idocs are no longer quite the fun they once were, at one time they were quite a social occasion with good natured chat while we waited. Of course there were always our friends the scripters but mostly we knew who they were and how they worked so they were treated like the pariahs they are. Quite how they work now with the groups of 'young' attendees gating in together I do not know and indeed have no wish to know. With these changes it looks like I will be attending less idocs so I will simply wish good fortune to those that still work hard at it. This does not include the 'young' operators, to them I wish all the bad luck in the world.
     
    Captn Norrington and Roxy_ATL like this.
  47. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

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    I agree the most of my heart! Let the random time count, let it not be predicted... let the people have fun of it, not the scripters that know the exact time. I dont care if they even put idoc to 2 hrs - 14 days...make it more random!!!

    All I care about is to not make it predictable, and thoose whiners that complains cuz its their profession - well, then they gotta find themself a new job or hobby...

    Most think they own the idocs, and they got scripts to predict when it falls... The best thing dev's can do is to make it unpredioctable... I just LOVE it... carry on :)
     
    Roxy_ATL, Acid Rain, azmodanb and 2 others like this.
  48. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

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    bank holds up to 2 billion per character tazar. just saying. call it exploit, call it a trick, its been going on forever. personally i dont do it because i always have vendors and prefer to keep items wich arent subject to inflation. but yes alot of gold can be stored in the bank.
     
  49. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

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    I'm curious as to how people think unpredictability is good for someone who isn't scripting vs someone who is? The person who isn't scripting has to sit there and watch the house for hours on end in that situation. The person who is scripting will just have the script set to loot when the house falls and don't even have to be at the computer. Scripting isn't about knowing the exact time. It's about not giving a crap when that time is because its on auto pilot anyway.

    Another instance of how randomizing screwed the average player but didn't effect scripters is mining or lumberjacking. You need some valorite and you try to go mine it, you used to be able to go to valorite spots and do that. Now you can mine for hours and not get what you need. Did THAT change that was used to combat scripters actually help? No they don't give a crap, they can just set it to mine around the clock and they'll get the valorite eventually.
     
  50. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    Check with the people using it... there's been talk lately about how something's changed and that exploit doesn't work like it used to - leaving a lot of gold to go *poof*.
     
    Assia Penryn and Acid Rain like this.
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