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Does UO put up with bullying??

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lady Storm, Dec 12, 2011.

  1. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I am on Origin and have just got through watching a person telling another player to "go kill themselves" This after a tiraid of loathfull talk of their person. Do we condone this? I jumped in telling that person to stop the abuse and that they have no idea of the persons mental state and could be lible for their actions due to taunters crewl words. Paging in the Harrassment of late has been hard as the ofending player is not where i can target them for it.

    Something must be done about this issue .... we have children playing who take things to heart.
     
  2. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    The unfortunate fact is that, yes we do, and we always have.

    And I better just stop there, I suppose.

    -Galen's player
     
  3. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I am being told that I should mind my own business and let the hate flow like normal...
    Put general chat off and let the kids run the assylum.

    We pass laws to stop it in schools and in public but we condone what some do in a game.

    Few years back whn i served in the game, 2 young people were told this very line and were so badly bullied they atempted suicide, 1 we were able to catch before they slipped away the other I talked to trying to hold him on till the athoritys could find him..he died at his comp... I dont want any other family to loose their kid or adult who is not able to handle this kind of talk.
     
  4. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    I'd page GM's - several times if need be.

    Use the harassment option - I think that one automatically saves your journal for them to review.
     
  5. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Agree. Some of the stuff that is said to other people in this game is so sick and twisted. GMs get paged. Nothing gets done. I've even paged with the specific line of text from the TOS which they are breaking... still nothing happens.
     
  6. Salivern_Diago

    Salivern_Diago Lore Master
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    It happens alot annoyingly. The way I view it is if people feel the need to 'bully' in the game then they have some serious shortfalls in real life. As for the suicide cases Lady Storm. I very much doubt that just being bullied in game would have made them attempt that. It would have to be something else that caused the depression and the low feelings.

    Its amazing the rubbish people sprout in the game and it really does show thier mental age.
     
  7. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I am being told that go ahead and call a GM, report them a GM will just ignore it and let it go.
    I am wasting my time... Am I??

    Who's going to put a stop to this?

    I dont care how its put in context in a game, when you talk this way even in jest it can do terrrible things. You dont know that other person or how they feel. Your words might just be the last straw to over throw their mind to do something horrible.
     
  8. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    I've heard of people getting warnings for saying certain things in general chat.
    One of my guildmates got a warning for calling someone a *****.
    I've not know anyone to actually get banned for bullying people though.
     
  9. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    There is often such a long wait now when paging a GM, but it should be done regardless. Quite honestly, if I was raising children today (mine are all over 30 now) I'd think long and hard before letting them play any online multi-player game... even UO. :(
     
  10. Prime.

    Prime. Sage
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    LOL! Someone calling another player a ***** is seriously one of the more nicer things I've heard in this game... Surprised "*****" is bad enough for a gm to give a warning but some other the other things I can't say here weren't even looked at twice by a GM
     
  11. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Until someone who loses someone over such garbage gets some reporter to play the game and read all that garbage and the reporter makes it worldwide news with Ea's name all through it nothing will happen.

    Contacting EA, as history has shown, won't do anything tp solve the problem.

    Get a big enough scandal going there might be a big investigation, and they might even get EA to give up the names of the owners of the accounts for legal action. Things are going that direction more & more due to the harrasment in schools.

    All it's going to take is one parent who has lost a child to want revenge.
     
  12. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    It seems to me that bullying is not just allowed,but encouraged. Each time someone comes to Stratics,they are laughed at and told "just put them on ignore". This does not hold responsible the person that seems to be unable to speak or type w/o using some type of profanity.They get off scott-free and the person that complains about it,if they page a GM too many times,is the one that gets the warning.
     
  13. Salivern_Diago

    Salivern_Diago Lore Master
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    Its a shame EA dosnt come under a modern consumer law. In the UK, companies are responsible for all actions within thier network and this would include bullying. In some cases I believe victims could sue. Lets just hope the law in the US is modernised sooner rather than later to protect the vunrable and those at risk.
     
  14. Deaol

    Deaol Certifiable
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    I think turning General Chat off was the best decision i've ever made while playing this game. I hardly ever see anyone talking smack in character (both fel/tram) other than at EM events.

    With that being said.. yeah it has just got out of hand.. every second post was some kid or maybe even an adult crying about speeding or some other garbage. I am pretty sure anyone who pvps in this 15 yr old game has to have thick skin.. because "honorable" pvp doesn't exists anymore lol.
     
  15. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    Its the new internet mentality of lowlifes. "No one in this game knows who I am in real life so I can say any horrible thing I want"
    Our only hope to fight it in game is to get better harassment support and to make sure people know not to take anything some loser says about you too serious. Let people know that even though some nobody tells you to "kill yourself" or calls you horrible names, remember that that loser doesn't know you in real life so everything they say is just BS.
     
  16. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    You really should have played UO back in the '90s. There is nothing new about this mentality at all.
     
  17. EvilPixieWorks

    EvilPixieWorks Lore Keeper
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    As much as I would love to agree with paging a GM… it's a fruitless waist of time 99% of the time. Still, that 1% could make a difference. :scholar:

    Harassment section, verbal… clearly.

    I still say you are better off to stand your ground even if you get attacked back. I never knew what cyber bullies were until the world of UO and message boards… but I have herd far too many stories about how newer players have been attacked, harassed, and otherwise molested by these brick-headed jackals and no one came to help them so they ended up quitting. You would figure that loosing customers for something so easy to police would be high on the old priority list for EA and our staff… but it isn't. You’ll get the old standard whatever “thank you for reporting the situation, it's being investigated” by a nameless GM.

    STILL… you may actually get a real living person who loves his/her job enough to take care of business. At least, that’s what I always hope for. :D
     
  18. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    I just mean its alot more common now, not just with online games. Its just sad it is just now coming to mainstream attention and being fought, at least with social media.
     
  19. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    May not be the popular opinion here, and nothing here is said TO or about the OP... just on the topic in general ... but here goes....


    No, not condone. But we can always get out of chat, or leave the area if it offends. If that fails we have an ignore option built into the game that we can utilize. UO has taken steps to prevent folks from hearing from idiots they don't want too, even if the idiots actions are not deemed harassment by the TOS. The game is rated Teen for violence, which includes {sadly at times} crap talking.

    It's really about self governing. If a person has a child and are letting them play a teen rated game then they do so at their own peril. If an adult finds themselves getting annoyed, or having their feelings hurt and they do not use the ignore option, they do so at their own peril.
     
  20. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Indeed.

    Depressing, but true.

    A better question than "do we put up with bullying" is "why." And on a related note, why do we condone it on the boards by saying such things as:

    That isn't new either; condoning without admitting that you are condoning. I'm surprised it took as long as it did for someone to say it. And I'm surprised no one has said the utter ridiculousness of "in Fel you could just kill them, problem solved."

    -Galen's player
     
  21. Specialshoes

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    Please no. Leave the current media fad out of my game. Can't we go back to racism or environmental concerns or being offended at something that News Entertainment wants us to pay attention to?

    People say mean things to other people. ITS OK. You don't have the right to not get your feelings hurt in this country
     
  22. PitrGri

    PitrGri Guest


    Ditto.
     
  23. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    I 100% condone someone's freedom of speech. Both in life, in game and on the internet. People have fought, gotten maimed and died for that right. Even unpopular speech has the right to be heard by anyone that wants to hear it. If anyone gets bullied on a game it is their fault for allowing it to continue. They have the option of ignoring the person doing the bullying. No way you can be bullied if you cant read what they are saying. The reason we have anti-bullying laws is because life don't have an ignore option for the idiots we run across :)

    Now if Ultima did not have the ignore option I would 100% side with the majority in the thread. But they have built in safeguards already, no need to create more. If you want to try and change the in game mentality about bullying maybe putting on a player ran event promoting an Anti-Bullying Movement/Agenda would be a good idea.
     
  24. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I stopped here, at your invocation of a sacred American political principle to justify bullying in a game.

    No one died for the right to bully in a game.

    -Galen's player
     
  25. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Galen, nothing personal here, just illustrating my point is all....

    No they died for far worse things than someone's right to verbally bully someone in a game. They die in a war half the world away to have their Brother in arms cursed, spat on, shunned and physically bullied when they returned from the war. They defend the very freedom that gets them treated that way. As I said before, even unpopular speech is protected, not just political speech.


    Could not agree more. Our society today is FAR TOO soft. Everyone looks for a reason to have hurt feelings. They do not look for reasons to "put their big boy/girl pants/panties on and deal with it". The things that gets adults upset or gets their feelings hurt these days are things that when I was coming up you shrugged off, or even laughed about. Sad.....
     
  26. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    People forget that UO isn't a public forum so "freedom of speech" doesn't apply anyways. Any "rights" we have within UO are those granted by EA.

    EA chooses to allow certain types of behavior, however they have listened and as you pointed out, they have put options into place so that we can ignore others.
     
  27. Kralock

    Kralock Guest

    rule one in the ROC has a very wide meaning, you could very well be banned for what you say.

    I do remember getting an account temp banned, for miss uttering the word ****, in an out of context meaning.

    3 days, and one strike, what i said was fairly harmless.

    So if someone is harassing you then yes you can page on them.

    Also yes we are to soft, I can always block someone.
     
  28. Lady Michelle

    Lady Michelle Sprite Full SP
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    http://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBTERMS/US/en/PC/#section11
    11. Rules of Conduct

    You may violate the Terms of Service if, as determined by EA in its sole discretion, you:

    - Post, transmit, promote, or distribute Content that is illegal.
    - Harass, threaten, embarrass, spam or do anything else to another player that is unwanted, such as repeatedly sending unwanted messages or making personal attacks or statements about race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc.
    - Organize, effectuate or participate in any activity, group, guild that is harmful, abusive, hateful, racially, ethnically, religiously or otherwise offensive, obscene, threatening, bullying, vulgar, sexually explicit, defamatory, infringing, invasive of personal privacy or publicity rights, encourages conduct that would violate a law or in a reasonable person's view, objectionable and/or inappropriate. Hate speech is not tolerated.
    - Use abusive, offensive, or defamatory screen names and/or personas.
    - Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of EA Services. Disruptive behavior includes but is not limited to conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within an EA Service. Disruptive behavior shall also include, but not be limited to, commercial postings, solicitations and advertisements.
    - Disrupt the flow of chat in chat rooms with vulgar language, abusiveness, hitting the return key repeatedly or inputting large images so the screen goes by too fast to read, use of excessive shouting [all caps] in an attempt to disturb other users, "spamming" or flooding [posting repetitive text].


    Telling someone to kill themselves could also fall under personal attack, abusive, hatefull, hate speech etc
     
  29. Lady Storm, I want to personally thank you. Whether people listen or not, just the fact someone is sticking up for them will make them feel much better. I'm 15. I don't take anything people say in game seriously, but almost every time I pvp on test I see this. And I know a majority of the people who play test are children. I agree. This problem must be solved.
     
  30. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    the kids think they are owed a living and muchooooooo respect..lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    genera chat is always full of this bull**** bronx talk............i say turn it off and let them rant to themselves and ther little dream world
     
  31. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    The problem has been solved for a while now:


    "By GM Acheren


    Disruptive Behavior:

    Be aware that in addition to the Verbal Harassment policy there is also a seperate Disruptive Behavior policy. Disruptive Behavior applies to the use of Vulgarity, Racism, and Objectionable Content in public chat channels such as the General channel. Unlike Verbal Harassment you do not need to ask players to stop or take any other additional steps prior to reporting this behavior. Unlike the default channels we do not tolerate the use of profanity in public chat channels so for Disruptive Behavior you may simply witness a player using vulgarity a few times in a public channel and skip straight to reporting them. For rather obvious reasons this means you should avoid responding to such players with more vulgarity in those same public chat channels lest you both end up in jail."


    Direct quote taken from http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/241939-[uo-herald]-harassment-procedure.html No sense in reinventing the wheel when the one you have rolls great :)

    Unless you are wanting to solve the problem of people in general doing those things, but that has been tried since the beginning of time to no avail. Either way, hopefully the above sheds some light on how to follow channels to get the ball rolling and see if the type of thing talked about here is something to give folks a temp/perma ban.
     
  32. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Bullies could not survive without those who excuse, pretend to not see, or actively support them, or the like.

    *shrugs*

    Oh well. The game hasn't changed in all respects in the last 15 years or so.

    -Galen's player
     
  33. evil randy

    evil randy Guest

    As one of those people who have fought, continues to fight, and has friends who have been maimed and died for the right which you 100% condone. I would point out to you; that we did not die so that someone could be harassed or bullied. Look up the Constitution and the fighting words doctrine, it pretty much explains that harassing, bullying, and hate speech are NOT protected rights. In brief, you are not allowed to say what ever you want, to who ever you want because the Constitution allows it.

    Do you believe that a woman that was ****d because she walked down the wrong street deserved it? I mean she could have walked down a different street? Seriously!?

    Or maybe you complain to the company that you pay to provide a service, and let them know that if they refuse to provide that service in a non-hostile environment, you will find another company that will.

    I agree that handling the situation ingame is ideal, and I do use the hell out of the ignore function. Mainly because they are really bad at smack talk, and its distracting to laugh and play at the same time. I don't believe the "griefers" will stop being themselves because a bunch of non-pvpers ask them too. But if the game threatens to ban them for it and actually follows through, then I think you will find the children will quickly stop.
     
  34. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    I also have fought, had friends and family who have died and gotten maimed. But we did so for what the Constitution was and should be. Not what the liberals have tweaked it into now by sticking in all the touchy feely amendments. If your speech infringes on others rights the juducial branch handles that aspect of it. Hate speech is protected up the wazoo tho man, ever seen the idiots standing at the Courthouse or somewhere else hollering at the top of their lungs about White Power and stuff? People have tried to stop that from happening for years and YEARS, yet still it continues. The speech its self is indeed protected, why would only popular speech fall under that criteria? Popular speech does not need protection as nobody wants to try and stop popular speech. That's akin to saying freedom of the press only applies to newsworthy papers, magazines etc, yet it also encompasses adult magazines etc as well.

    Granted when we are in game we are all waive that right and agree to abide by the TOS that are in place.



    Here you are not comparing apples to apples. I stated that someone IN game could simply use the ignore option provided by EA/Mythic/Whomever they are this year. But you can rest assured IF that woman walking down the street had an ignore rapist button at her disposal in rl then she would surely use it.




    That's the thing, the company we pay to play UO is providing the service. That is why I posted what I did above about how to go about reporting for those that may not know. Their in game reporting/ignoring options are only good when used.
     
  35. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    The Constitution doesn't apply to UO. Whatever EA says applies to UO is what applies to UO.
     
  36. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    We are letting others get their way each time you turn off chat... because they start to fling dirt. We are allowing them to do this by not speaking up. IF enough of us said knock it off, quit bullying them. It might just sink in. This should not be tollerated, by anyone. You, I and every person in this game deserve respect as a human being. When you allow it to go on your giving them the right to walk all over you and your rights.

    I was taught by my trainers and some very good GM's how far I was to allow anyone in game to treat me. This behavior these players are doing would have had them in serious trouble.

    This is not the streets or some back alley, and I and any of you are not a piece of dirt to be walked over.
    im not talking of general taunts to go play pvp... but out right attacks on our fellow players.
     
  37. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    I understand where you are coming from Lady Storm. I also agree if people do not want to hear/read that kind of talk then something needs to be done to stop them from having to be subjected to it. For the majority of crap talkers and offenders, other people getting on their case, or trying to talk them into stopping usually only stirs the pot and causes them to do it more often. That's why they stoop to the taunts and crap talking in the first place, to get a rise out of someone. When it gets rises out of more than one person it's just like throwing gas on the fire. They just sit back and laugh like heck.

    But, if instead folks report the behavoir that is seemingly against TOS then eventually the GM's will look into it. As Tazar said above, on occasion more than one page may be needed at times. While the offender MAY not get but a slap on the wrist the first time, eventually after repeated violations they will learn to honor the TOS or eventually be booted from the game.
     
  38. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    We can only hope so.

    No child deserves to be so taunted, or adult for that matter.
     
  39. pgib

    pgib Guest

    I'm puzzled by the need for player's report: all they need to do is to log in, listen to general chat for five minutes, ban everyone and log off. Clean and simple.
     
  40. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Report them, it's all we, as players, can do. I have in the past suggested that pvpers have their own channel, but they don't want that

    what would you say to the suggestion that we, who don't want to read such anti social drivel, use the help channel instead, and encourage youngsters to do likewise, we could at least alleviate the problem?
     
  41. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    The mentality that gets it'sjollies doing the garbage in chat has to know their being heard by others to get those jollies. If most others moved to the Help channal, they would just move to the Help channel themselves so they could keep getting their jollies.

    They're being severely intimidated by GMs with the threat of banning, or just flat out being banned are the only real solutions.
     
  42. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    I regularly get taunted by a certain guild in general chat about my wife having cancer. All sort of nasty things are being said, but I'm told they are not breaking the TOS and I have to just either put them on ignore or told not to log into general chat.
     
  43. pgib

    pgib Guest

    I turn off the chat when i don't need it, that's not the problem. The problem is that it looks like they don't care, which may or may not be true but it's what people see. It's a gigantic in game bad advertisment: UO, the game not even its producers care about. Not good.

    Would be a wonderful question for the new producer: do you plan to remove the rule from the tos or to enforce it?
     
  44. Njjj

    Njjj Journeyman
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    I agree. At least at the current state of things, it takes no time to find several people to ban. They should use spot checks.
     
  45. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Yep!

    I was in a guild who had a member who died in a car accident, and its rival guild would leave inappropriately named pets referring to the death all over the Luna Bank. If we lost in PvP that day, there'd be a lot of them and if we won there'd be even more.

    It was quite spirit-breaking which was of course the intent. As it always is in bullying.

    If one sees UO as a competition among players, the easiest way to win that competition is to make players quit, make players not play, or distract them to the point that they suck: That way it's easy enough to be at the top simply because everyone else sucks.

    And these folks know that people on the boards will support their bullying in the name of free speech and the like, and the in-game customer service people are far-more concerned with anyone who might respond in-kind in an attempt to fight back or, Heaven forbid, use a swear word, so there's no real consequences for what they do.

    This behavior in effect combines the 3 worst aspects of UO, for 15 year or so running now: The mentality of some of the players, enabling mentality of some other players, and the ineffectiveness of in-game customer service.

    Three of an otherwise cool game's nastier traditions.

    -Galen's player
     
  46. grig_since98

    grig_since98 Guest

    I believe that you too are making a faulty analogy in the first part of that statement. The right of the Klu Klux Klan to march and express their opinion is not the same as bullying, whether you like their opinion or not. For example, those said Klansmen can express their opinion publicly ( disregarding any new hate speech laws). However, if they begin, say, verbally berating and abusing an individual black person, or any person for that matter, they won't be allowed to do that.
     
  47. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

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    Can we leave the RL political stuff out please?
    We can report these people, but we will never know what action is taken. No one is allowed to tell us, it's against their company policy. The only time we ever know is when someone comes on here with half a tale claiming they were 'wrongfully banned'. In a few cases that may even be true, but only those who have the full information can judge.

    Report them, use the harassment option and type in the id number from chat.
     
  48. evil randy

    evil randy Guest

    This isn't political stuff. Its constitutional law and people's lack of understanding. For instance, just because we agree by a companies TOS, does not then allow people to ignore the Constitution. The great thing about our Constitution is that they provide us rights that we are not able to simply sign away. No company can place something in their TOS that violates the Constitution, well they could place it in there but it wouldn't hold up in court.

    If the hazing/bullying got bad enough, and it was proven that UO was unwilling to do anything about it then its possible for UO to be found liable for not following their own TOS.

    There is a difference in hate speech and fighting words. I recommend people research for themselves so that they may be knowledgeable about their rights.
     
  49. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
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    Actually Randy they can. The first amendment protects you from the government. Not private organizations. So the state can't pass a law shutting you up. But the the newspaper can choose to not cover you. That’s how our system works. For the record yes UO encourages bullies, but that has far more to do with the players. I am leery of encouraging the GMs to get involved to heavily in this as it really leads to them telling us what kind of interaction is acceptable. I would say our better bet is to ostracize those involved. I also think that UO should be rated MA. I could not imagine allowing a child not over 14 to play (which is hypocritical since I and my sister played younger then that but still).
     
  50. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    I highly doubt that anything said in game is worse than the usual banter on the playground.
    If a person is driven to suicide because they were bullied in a game their problems go much deeper then general chat.
    Remember that UO is an alternate world…nice people might not be so nice in game. I am of the mindset that it takes two to tango and most of the time people get exactly what they deserve.