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Don't take my gold!!

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Miri of Sonoma, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. Miri of Sonoma

    Miri of Sonoma Lore Keeper
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    I was more than a little disappointed when I heard that they are taking gold out of the game. For me this is just another way of destroying the atmosphere of Britannia. I want to keep my gold in little golden piles or checks in my bank! If people feel the need to have billions, then make bigger gold piles and checks..don't just whisk it all away! :(

    Seems like all the little things that make UO a unique world (which is one of the more important things that keeps me here) are being stripped away for the sake of convenience. Makes me sad really.

    Just my opinion...no ATMs in Britannia!!
     
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  2. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Come again? When and where was this mentioned?
     
    #2 Viper09, Sep 30, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
  3. Miri of Sonoma

    Miri of Sonoma Lore Keeper
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    It was part of Mesanna's presentation..gold conversion. If I understood it correctly, gold would just be a number attached to your character (or was it account) :(
     
  4. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    One of the Producer's Letters and then, based on pictures I've seen, at the party.

    It's physical gold/cheques from what I can tell. The idea, I think, being to cut down on duping.

    -Galen's player
     
  5. Blood Ghoul

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    Yes..gold would be attached to the account..you'd be able to loot all the gold you find and it would always be available to your characters...she stated you'd still have piles of gold available for deco.

    I for one am for the idea.. I hate the check system we have now
     
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  6. Sean

    Sean Slightly Crazed
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    It's still in the discussion mode and any input is welcome according to UO-Phoenix's comments.
     
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  7. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I have no problem with this notion, I squirm a little worrying about the implementation, though.

    -Galen's player
     
  8. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    It was mentioned in one of the producer's letters.

    My guess is it would be converted to make it easier to see how much gold is actually in-game & to give players a better access to an Auction house/vendor search (of course this is my opinion and it would also depend on how a Vendor Search/Auction house were added to the game)
     
  9. SinDee

    SinDee Seasoned Veteran
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    It was stated that gold checks were the easyest items to dupe ingame and thats why there looking to take it out. But they did they wanted to leave the item gold and gold piles ingame as decro for players.
     
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  10. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    The way it will probably work is that gold as loot (especially champ loot) would remain, but if you dropped it into your bank it would add to your number and the pile would disappear.

    After all, it would be hard to convert the gold explosion at champs, since all that gold is initially tied to no one, and part of the game play is getting it out of the champ area.
     
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  11. SinDee

    SinDee Seasoned Veteran
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    And I'm sure this will be a good long wile before this goes live.
     
  12. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Personally I don't care much one way or the other (well, I do a little bit - nostalga), but as I'm reading this I find myself wondering why it is important enough to (EA?) to devote the resources to it..... IMHO there are much more pressing UO issues to deal with...

    Just sayin....:confused:
     
    #12 startle, Sep 30, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
  13. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    You're joking, right?

    Mesanna and the others commented at the presentation that the BIGGEST DUPING ISSUE is that of checks. That makes it one of the most pressing issues by any definition.

    Of course, one of the things being discussed is whether a new standard will be introduced (perhaps converting to the equivalents of the 3 coins from the old sewer event) as part of the project, and how to not affect transactions between players, and use of money as deco.
     
  14. Angel of Sonoma

    Angel of Sonoma Certifiable
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    I hate the idea of removing gold from the game. It's part of the 'charm' that is UO.
     
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  15. T-Hunt

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    This should have been done ages ago..
    Little to late now ...
    Other then stoping dupping, but then people have more gold then they need. most anyways.
    And alot of the ones duppping , were gold sellers..and dont think its worth the efford to sell of what i see ingame chat on prices.
     
  16. Larisa

    Larisa Reporting Manager
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    I think it would draw more players in...I to love the little gold piles but it's been said we'd still have those to use as deco...which I like! But as Basara stated if you drop the gold into the bank it gets converted into your *money number* which would work well if implemented correctly.

    I would be all for this change! As long as I can still loot my little gold piles and lock some down I'm good.
     
  17. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    They should keep gold around in some capacity as an item (for deco purposes), but currency should be non itemized. I agree that its a bummer, but deitemization of currency not only can help stop cheating, it can also facilitate much easier trade.
     
  18. Miri of Sonoma

    Miri of Sonoma Lore Keeper
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    I am glad to hear that the change is a ways off still. It was hard to tell from the stream sometimes what her timeline was with these things. Also glad to hear that we still have piles of gold but I hope they are more than just deco (meaning hopefully you can still spend it if you want to).

    It would be good to eliminate the gold duping problem but still it is sad to lose our currency (well for me anyway). Glad to see there are some people who are nostalgic like me though :)
     
  19. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    The problem is not WHAT is being duped, it is that they still have no clue how to prevent duping in the first place - THAT is where they need to be working harder. Stopping the duping of checks is pointless if the cheats can dupe other things and then sell them for the 'numerical gold' characters have. Taking away something that adds to the atmosphere of the game because it's 'easier' is a pretty poor way to react to a genuine problem - but for UO it's absolutely par for the course.

    Yet again, it seems, the desire to be seen to be doing something, no matter how actually pointless that something may be, comes higher on the list of priorities than the harder task of fixing the real problem.
     
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  20. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Well technically currency is the most important thing to stop from begin duplicated because 1) its really easy to "launder" cause everyone has 1 mill checks, unlike runics hammers or whatever as they should have a good idea that no one should have 20 val hammers illegitimately, and 2) when currency is still being used as a trade medium if you keep its influx legit then there cant be such hyper inflation even if there is an inflation in high level items.

    Clearly yes, its better if they just knew how to stop duping, and did it, but clearly that's just not possible either at all or just at the moment. They can only do what they can do.
     
  21. LordDrago

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    Was just going to say the same thing. If gold/checks can't be duped, and the dupers are forced to dupe items, it may make the dupers easier to hunt and slay.
     
  22. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Ah, ok. I read the title and first post wrong. I read the post thinking they were literally going to take gold away and out of the game lol. I didn't see the video and had dismissed its mentioning in the producers letter as an idea they were entertaining so I had not made that connection.
    I like the idea, though I am not sure how they will apply it to champ spawns and gold stored in houses.
     
    #22 Viper09, Oct 1, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  23. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I would bet that all checks would be deleted, and any piles would be left as is. Then maybe any checks or gold in your box would be converted to your "money" stat.
     
  24. Sept

    Sept Journeyman
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    This is a fantastic idea, obviously it will not prevent duping all together, but it is certainly a move in the right direction. Removing the physical aspect out of the currency will also reduce the strain on the servers and on the pain of storing large amounts of gold.
     
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  25. Njjj

    Njjj Journeyman
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    Maybe I'm wrong here, but seems to me duping items would only cause devaluation of those items. It is the duping of gold itself that causes inflation.
     
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  26. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    My guess would be something along the lines of:
    gold coins will still exist as loot and decor, checks won't.
    gold deposited in your bank becomes a number attached to your character/account. Much like shame crystals or despise hearts once you consume them.
    The 'withdraw [amount]' command may still work to obtain gold to spend with npcs on small items.
    Just think of it as freeing up lots of bank slots?
     
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  27. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Nope. some things are always going to have 'values' in the game, for their rarity or relative usefulness - what they are exchanged for can be other
    items (leaving aside the possible markets for out of game money sales -and gold in UO is only a number in a database, and the UO world creates infinite amounts of it), whether the people are exchanging the 'gold' item ID or some other item ID, the issue remains that the goods some people are trading are duped, and therefore 'fake'.
     
  28. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    I do not believe that a useable database cannot ever be secured from false creation of items ..... it's probably extremely difficult, true, but at core it's something that almost certainly CAN be done. We've been told of so many impossibilities in the past ; we can't have multi-tile moveable objects - then someone figured out how to make boats work. z-axis meant flight in any way was impossible but then someone designed the gargoyle flight paths which is the first stage of what could be a proper flight system, if it is be built on. So many times, someone who thought and designed 'outside the box' of what was thought possible in the UO client comes along and figures out how it can be done.

    I get more convinced over time that the developers decide not that it is 'impossible', but that it is 'too hard', and create the illusion of solving something by a partial fix distraction. Trouble is, most of their 'fixes' actually detract from the sense of immersion in the playing of the game, and this looks like yet another example to me, and frankly I'm just so tired of them now. To know what the most commonly duplicated item in the UO server databases is must mean there is a way to identify it - and if there is a way to identify it, there must be ways to prevent it happening, trigger alarm when it happens, or trace the 'original' and kill all the copies created after that datestamp. It's hard - but avoiding doing the right thing because it's hard is never the correct answer.
     
  29. Angel of Sonoma

    Angel of Sonoma Certifiable
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    to whom it may concern: i have a few white colored checks which i saved from the days before the devs changed them to yellow in color. they are part of my rares collection. i would like to keep them please.
     
  30. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    For me, I like the balance of being able to kill anything, have the gold go right to my account, and then also have the option of deco gold. They also talked about a shard shared bank if I heard right, and if that's so, very, very cool. No more worrying about what char you're on, one global currency across characters.
     
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  31. Eaerendil

    Eaerendil Younger than Kelmo, but also in the way...
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    It´s a very good thing! Hope they will do it soon!
     
  32. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Yes, that gold would be across characters (presumably on a shard by shard basis), was stated.

    It was also inferred (but not outright stated) that it would be gold that would normally be on corpses, or put into your pack by NPCs, that would be affected. This would mean that if the champ spawn gold explosions remain, or anything else that is non-instance/lootable by multiples (SOS/T-Maps) would still be gold piles to grab.

    Mesanna stated that they knew duping occurs a lot, but still didn't know how exactly it was occurring because they couldn't replicate the duper's actions reliably (it would probably take a duper showing them how it is done for each duping method, and that's extremely unlikely to happen).

    One concern I do see is how gold will be handled for Cross-sharding. Will the character take an even split of gold, not be able to take any gold, or be given a gump to choose the amount from their shard account to take with them? This would have an effect mostly on cross-shard merchants, but even normal transfers will need to know this.
     
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  33. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Account yes. Server NO. How will people take thier gold with them when they go to another shard?

    Another question is how will people be able to give gold to another account other than setting up a vendor and selling an item?

    IMHO GOLD SELLERS will hate this because gold will now be on an account and no longer locked down in houses. UO will now be able to see how much gold is on an account.

    There are items selling like "hot cakes" and if DUPING was so easy then dupers would be making these left and right to get as much gold as possible. IMHO I think checks for some reason are easier to do because maybe the way the system makes them, don't really know for sure.
     
  34. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    I don't care for the idea. It feels kind of like the government taking over one's bank account. :ohsnap:
     
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  35. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Problem is checks and smith hammers BODs can be washed. Duped checks can be check to gold to check and something new created. And as for the smith hammers. It is the full 20x val plate large BOD that be duped and cleared by changing bunch of deeds into fresh coded bag of hammers. I would agree anyone before with a bag of val hammers should of burst into flames IRL. With bribery today any BOD hoarder could have 100s of hammers today to support the best gold sink they ever came up with.

    Just hope when they do the gold conversion. Checks in backpack and bank box of all characters gets added to the accounts draw value. All checks not on a character or bankbox after conversionare deleted. Before the conversion happens players have a chance to remove gold from any vendors exceeding 10 million gold. Sorry to say if you have more checks then 7 characters can hold in backpack and bankbox, you been playing the game all wrong. Or doing the game wrong catering to players laziness selling gold.

    Old Gypsy: They already took over the bank savings by leaving the majority middle class and poor with nothing to put in the bank.
     
    #35 Warpig Inc, Oct 1, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  36. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    Same here.. and also my checks that say zero.
     
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  37. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Hopefully they are very careful writing and ****testing**** the code for this. Screwing this one up completely would not be good.

    How about having the new system have two gold numbers at the bank, one secure savings account that vendors can't access and one account that vendors can access to pay for items you buy. The secure savings can only be accessed by a character at a bank transferring funds to the spendable account. This way if a glitch shows up somewhere in the new code, it's not as likely to do serious damage to anyones bank balance.
     
  38. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I think this is a very good idea if it finally gets rid of the mass duping of cheques, I think that the trade windows will also need to be reworked though, somehow one will need to be able to transfer gold, using a trade window, from one character to another.

    Also, unless a new way is created to transfer gold from character to character on the same shard or across shards, the gold of a new system should be per account across all shards, IMHO. As of now, one can transfer cheques from one shard to another with transferring but if the new system will have wealth with no physicality other than the 60k gold piles, how will players transfer millions from one character to another of their same account on a shard they play or between characters of their account from one shard to another ?
     
    #38 popps, Oct 1, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  39. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
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    About time. Looking forward to this.
     
  40. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
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    I don't see any problem with dropping gold into the bank and it just goes into a "total" number - rejiggering my gold into checks in the bank is such a waste of timei for no reason - I can't really see any downside to "depositing" gold in the bank
     
  41. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    Finally!

    Signed 100%!
     
  42. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Good.
     
  43. MedeaDF

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    Okay...

    Gold account bound and character bound because of the duping of the checks. Got it.

    But why is it no problem then to dupe special rare items (let's say someone duping a 500m item instead of a 1m check)? I don't get it.

    I think the problem is far more bigger than that.
     
  44. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    Its a nice start. I think the economy is one of the things that make people turn their nose up at this game. Duping has been a problem for way to long and i'm all for any idea that is designed to prevent it.
     
  45. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    Just my .02...

    I think gold tied to an account is a great start toward slowing the tide of duping, as well as making storage of funds and transacting for large amounts of gold much simpler.

    As far as tracking duping... Lets face it, the vast amount of high ticket items are limited in quantity and are no longer available in game... Hence the number of them in game should never increase. That makes them easier to track. X number of luck garbs today. If that number increase tomorrow you know you have a dupe... Then you start back tracking it, who has more today than they did yesterday. Did that person have a gold transaction yesterday (to see if maybe they purchased it). Eventually you are left with only a couple viable options as to which account duped the item. And so on down the line.

    Will dupers still exist? Prolly, but its prolly virtually impossible to eliminate them with the current code. But at least they won't be able to dupe gold or high value items without significantly more risk of getting caught.
     
  46. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    If there are 10000000000000 runic hammers on the market the price will drop because they have lost their rarity. Doens't matter how useful they are.
    Currency has a universal value as a trading commodity, and is much easier to hide. Its a bigger problem and yes, duping gold is the only thing that causes "inflation" other than regular gold influx.
     
  47. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Well clearly anything is possible, but I think we are dealing with a case of whats reasonable here. I am absolutely sure that you are right about the dev "its too hard" decision. The team isn't that big and its probably better to not dedicate everyone's time to working on large projects that don't have a wide explicit effect, even if they do have a wide implicit effect.
     
  48. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    They already control the gold and everything else. This change just makes things easier for us (if less cool) and harder for cheaters.
     
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  49. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    Because an item doesn't increase the overall amount of gold in the economy. If he would sell the item, the existing gold would just move from one player to another -> no inflation.
    If they dupe checks, everyone gets richer. Prices rise, since everybody can afford anything -> inflation.

    Ok, here's a sample with a hypothetical server with just 4 players:
    Player A owns 3m, B 5m, C 10m and D just 1m. Now D dupes an item which is worth 8m. Now what's he supposed to do with this item? He just could sell it to C, because he's the only one, who can afford it, if he ever wants it though. So let's say, C buys the duped item from D and D dupes another one... No one can't afford it, so he's sitting on a rather worthless junk.
    But if he would dupe checks, he could buy rares from A, B & C. These three would get richer and he could even sell that 8m item to everybody.
     
  50. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    It IS a problem. But currency duping has the greatest effect because its so difficult to spot and it effects everything.