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doubt about sampire suit

Discussion in 'UO Warrior' started by RaistlinNowhere, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. RaistlinNowhere

    RaistlinNowhere Slightly Crazed
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    im redoing now my sampire suit, and have almost finished it, but now i have to options and dunno what to do.
    Im doing a pure sampire tank with these mods (and more of course hehe, but only put what i need to ask):

    120 fencing
    120 bushido
    120 parry

    70/96/70/70/70

    30 kinetic
    50 DCI
    50 LMC with inherit

    leafblade with 96 hml - 40 HSL - 44 HLA - slayer - DCI


    My doubt is that i could have 54 DCI having 70/96/68/68/70 , but does those 54 DCI worth having cold and poison at 68?
     
    #1 RaistlinNowhere, Sep 11, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2014
  2. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    DCI is capped at 45 unless you refine your armour to lower resists and increase the DCI cap.
    It might be worth considering refining 2 pieces of your armour to trade 2 cap points in poison and cold to raise your DCI cap to 49.

    Personally, I would consider a DCI cap of 30 and raise the resists caps to 75/75/70/70/75(80 as elf), but this would involve pretty much redoing your suit...
     
  3. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    I've been pondering the same type of questions, and was going to crunch these numbers eventually(week or two probably) - so why not now.

    There really aren't too many things that hit hard or often and do poison damage or cold damage. Harm, and wither do cold damage, maybe a mystic or weaving spell too, but that won't come up in PvM. For poison damage theres... the poison spell, poison strike, and strangle(I think). Since you're a sampire, you'll only even be affected by the bigger poisons, but with 70 resist, they do about 13 damage / tick, so with 68 that might go up to 14...

    Lets look at some real numbers. Per Stratics, either poison strike or wither top out at about 55 damage.
    If you have 70 resist you'll take 55 * .3 = 16.5 damage, so probably 17.
    68 resist: 55 * .32 = 17.5 ~18.

    Any attack that does <50 damage before resists will do either the same damage or 1 more, depending on rounding. Of cource this holds true for something that hits with all or part poison damage too - you're likely to take an extra 1 damage per hit, maybe 2.

    Now looking at DCI.
    Lets assume you're fighting something that hits hard enough to really make a difference. I'll assume you're collecting barbed hides, and you come across a g-drag and want to kill it.
    Base damage: 24-33, with an average of 125 tactics, and ~1200 of STR - giving it a damage bonus of about 700%. (100% physical) So we will say it's damage range is 190 - 250 with an average of 220.

    220 * .3 = 67 damage (I find myself in thie scenario quite often, so and this jives with what I notice, I'm always on swamp dragon with armor and GDrag hits me for 50ish per hit)
    GDrag has avg 130 wrestling skill (per hunters guide). I assume he has 0 HCI.

    So based on the hit chance % equation, if you have 0 DCI he has a 53.57% chance to hit - we'll round to 54. Then for each increase of 1 DCI he loses about .5% chance to hit.

    Lets look at what this means for DPS (or in our case per 1.25s combat round). Where DPCycle = Avg Damge * Chance to hit.

    At 0 DCI you can expect to take an average of 67 * .54 = 36 damage.
    Take this to 45 and you're down to 25 damage.
    At 50 DCI its 24 damage.
    At 55 DCI its 23 damage.
    At 70 DCI its 21 damage
    BUT
    at 70 DCI that means you only have 65 physical resist... so instead of each hit doing an average of 67 damage, it does 77 ... so recalculate
    at 70 DCI its 24 damage. - Interesting, 70 DCI and 65 resist is effectively the same as 45 dci and 70 resist. I suspect this is not accidental.

    Lets look at Bealank's suggestion: 75 resist and 30 dci.
    220 * .25 = 55 (hmm - already looking better).

    With 75 resist and 0 DCI you can expect 30 damage.
    At 20 DCI (30 cap, but under -10 from Divine Fury): 25
    At 30 DCI: 23
    No need to go higher, since this is our cap.

    Oh, and since you've moved up to all 75s in resist, that wither/poison strike from above now does 14 damage instead of 17.

    So, what does this tell us?

    Looks to me like the conclusion is that you're better to have the resists. In true physical combat it basically washes out. Max DCI and Min resists is merely a rounding difference between Min DCI and Max resist - so on any given hit, the difference is only 1 damage. However, because a lot of things cast spells...

    You're better off to have the resist.
     
    azmodanb, Duncan Drake and BeaIank like this.
  4. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    Another thing to ponder about the decision between resist vs DCI is the stamina loss.

    Lower resist and higher DCI means that when you DO get hit, because you're getting hit harder your stamina loss will be higher, assuming that you're generally at full health when you do get hit.

    Stamina loss is in some way a function of current hp, and damage done. (If someoen knows this equation, I'd LOVE to see it). If you're generally pretty close to 100% health, then you're better off to get hit many times for low damage than few times for a lot of damage.
     
    Duncan Drake, CorwinXX and BeaIank like this.
  5. RaistlinNowhere

    RaistlinNowhere Slightly Crazed
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    Tuan, as far as i undertstand from yours numbers, you are using DCI to lower the income damage, but thats wrong .... DCI affects the chance of getting hit.

    My thought of doing this suit is for this (ill use your Gdragon example ) :

    with 120 fencing + 54 DCI vs 130 wrestling + 0 HCI (if it have any HCI it will be 0 because of HLA for sure) = 27% of getting hit (and i dont know if it can have negative HCI)

    with 120 fencing + 120 bushido + 115 parry = 33% of block with 1H if i got hit

    if i finally got hit 220 * 0.3 = 66 * 0.8 (swamp dragon) = ~53 damage

    lets assume i have feint on --> 53/2 = ~27 damage

    (without feint) ill heal 53 * 0.3 (kinetic) = 16 damage (so we can say it will be a real hit of 37-38 damage)
    (with feint) ill heal 27 * 0.3 (kinetic) = 8 damage (so we can say it will be a real hit of 19-20 damage)

    What i want isnt to get the minimum income damage, what i want is to get less hit at all, because using a swamp dragon 70 resists means 53 damage and with 75 resists means 44 damage , only 11 damage of diff, and ill heal 30% of that damage, so i prefer to get less hit.
     
    #5 RaistlinNowhere, Sep 12, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
  6. RaistlinNowhere

    RaistlinNowhere Slightly Crazed
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    And about the stam damage, im wearing 2 platemail and 3 studded so i dont think ill have much prob.

    PD : bealank i got 54 DCI from lowering 75 energy --> 70 and 2 points from cold and 2 from poison.
     
    #6 RaistlinNowhere, Sep 12, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
  7. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    Ah, in this case, go with 54 DCI.
    As Tuan stated, you will barely notice the difference between 68 and 70 poison/cold resist in PvM, as there are too little stuff that hit with those.
     
  8. Tuan

    Tuan Slightly Crazed

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    @RaistlinNowhere

    You don't quite understand my calculation.

    I fully understand that DCI doesn't change the damage PER HIT. It does however affect how many hits you can expect to take in a given time interval.

    I was calculating the (and explicitly stated, and even clarified this statement) expected damage per hit. The expected value of a given event is the Value of the event, times the Probability of that event happening.

    (You flip a coin 1 time - how many heads should you expect? Obviously 1/2 of a head. Getting 1 head is a 1, 50% chance of getting that head: 1 * .5 = .5. Obviously you get either a head, or a tail, but the full equation is really nP(v)v where v is the full value of a true event (1 head), P(v) is the probability of getting a head (.5), and n is the number of events(flips).)

    So the expected DPS (or as I state, DPCombatCycle) is defined as "DamagePerHit" times "probability of getting hit". Of course on any given swing, you either hit, or you don't. Also, on any given swing you do one of the available damage values - and in most cases this can, by rule, never be the "average".

    So, there are two ways to lower the overall damage you'll take over the course of an entire battle: get hit less, or get hit for less damage.

    Your idea makes for, in my opinion a really nice overall suit - you keep Ph high, sacrifice Cold and Poi, and get hit less. Just be careful against something that hammers you with cold/poison (Dark Father/White Wyrm/Liches do a lot of cold damage, Parox I believe hits maybe 100% Poison).
     
  9. RaistlinNowhere

    RaistlinNowhere Slightly Crazed
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    then decided, ill do the 54 DCI option :p