1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Draconi! Warrior of Destiny and the Three Missing Virtues???

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Rand al'Thor DR, Apr 15, 2008.

  1. *Puts on +90 Fire resist suit*

    I know its been asked about 1,358,901 times. But with the new event it's time to ask again.

    It's been years and we are still missing Three Virtue quests. I don't care how you finish it off, even if the quests are dumb, but it's time to finish them. I have several character that still do the quests each week just to keep the Knights active.

    Please Draconi???
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Maybe if we turn in enough items and drive the shadowlords away in their physical form, we get the virtues back!

    Yay!
     
  3. As usual no information no news NOTHING new. It;s the same as before promise this but it will take 2 years to get done not to mention IF it gets done.
     
  4. But it can't be that hard to do. I remember with one publish they added four. Can't they just come up with "something" to finish off the last three. They can always fix them later. Even if the quest or virtue doesn't make sense. Or is easy. Or is stupid. I have been missing my missing three colors on my gump for a long, long time.
     
  5. Anne

    Anne Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    1
    I would love it if the missing virtues were fixed to work.
     
  6. I would like to see a more robust and interesting virtue system in general.

    Yes, the existing virtues should be completed, but there should also be items that gain special powers based on your virtue levels.

    For example, there could be a shieldof sacrifice that takes a portion of the damage done to friendly targets near the wielder of the shield and does it to the wielder instead (reduced based on your sacrifice virtue level)

    Or the fists of justice... special gloves that 1 hit kill reds when you wrestle them (joking)
     
  7. Does anyone else want to see the missing virtues patched in? Or is it just the five of us?
     
  8. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    7,770
    Likes Received:
    1,132
    I want Virtues finished too. I also want multiple ways to gain in a Virtue. [​IMG]
     
  9. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    6,107
    Likes Received:
    92
    No, Rand...there are six of us [​IMG]

    And I would really love to see the Virtues like Sacrifice and Compassion be like Honor is...they only go down when used, and not just decay.

    But yes...I would like to see the last virtues done.

    /Signed
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I want Virtues finished too. I also want multiple ways to gain in a Virtue. [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No I think we all want to see it but the problem is that it was never implemented as a finished system and in UO that generally means it will remain half finished forever.

    I could create a huge long list of half finished never mentioned things in the game.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    There also need to be anti virtues that only reds can use.
     
  12. Zalan

    Zalan Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    2,919
    Likes Received:
    346
    They couldn`t finish the Virtues in 10 years. I don`t think we will see them finish it in a few publishes either. Let alone one event.
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    It's the basis of the whole Ultima world, yet it is incomplete. How baffling.

    This should require a focus group with input and full discussion. To be frank, I don't think EA can be creative enough to make the Virtues in keeping with Ultima lore on their own. It would require LB, but he's turned them into Legos (kidding on the name).

    And yes, special powers or whatever would be a great way to encourage use and maintenance of the virtues. The center of the virtue gump should be lit and clickable to activate the "Avatar" power. Unfortunately, KR doesn't have this cool gump, just a menu.
     
  14. <blockquote><hr>

    Unfortunately, KR doesn't have this cool gump, just a menu.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You could write one. Such an undertaking might need to be a collaborative effort, but we have the tools where we should be able to create a custom virtue gump.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    There also need to be anti virtues that only reds can use.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think it would be cool if reds had chaos abilities. Maybe a way to teleport to the chaos shrine after being killed among other cool things.

    It really would make sense for reds to use chaos as it is a lack of virtue where blues would be virtuous and be able to access all the benefits of them.
     
  16. I see it coming...

    Humility Virtue by Draconi :
    "I release paragon superdragons everywhere and you die in silence, with humility."
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    So long as the missing virtues don't add yet more ridiculous advantages for blues to use.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Post deleted by Trevelyan
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <center>Humility</center>

    - Double click the humility icon, target a new player
    - The young player then gets the option to accept or decline help
    o Declining gives 1 point of humility to the player for trying (maximum of 5 points per day this way) and the player must wait 5 minutes before trying again with another new player
    o Accepting means that the player can help the new player. Should the player exit the range of the young player for more than one minute, the session is ended and the player will receive points equal to the time spent helping them (up to a maximum of say, 5 blobs per new player).
    - That new player cannot be helped by the same player more than once a day, that is, the player will not be rewarded (but can still help them)

    Humility perhaps gives no reward as such, but maybe it can give a sort of luck bonus to everything the player does, so that the RNG is a bit more in the player's favour for everything.

    <center>Honesty</center>

    Possibly a clean-up-britannia style system. Instead of trying to get high prices for items, you could sell items ridiculously cheap to NPCs.

    This has certain benefits of course - gets items out of the economy, means players will loot corpses and people will pick stuff off the floor. Perhaps also allow players to buy these items off the NPCs too (so NPCs have a use and are stocked by players).

    Use honesty, target yourself. For say, one hour, all items you sell to NPCs are at an extremely low price (say, only 2 or 3 gold per item). Or, for a given time, items are simply given away free to NPCs. An alternative is instead of invokign the virtue, you simply drop items on NPCs. Effectively trash barreling items.

    The points accumulate into virtue points. There would be a daily cap (time or points) that could perhaps diminish if you give in too much at once or too valueable an item at once. The points accumulate very slowly and are dependant on the items value (artifacts, by rarity, worth considerably more)

    The reward? Who knows - but it would be something that would diminish your points. So a tradeoff - Knight of Honesty whereby you simply donate all the time, or your points drop for you using the points for say, a combat bonus or a crafting bonus or a power-hour style gains spurt.

    <center>Spirituality</center>

    Who knows. Maybe some pilgrimage to all the shrines or something. Something arduous that affects all the other virtues and their affects, the time it takes to gain them or their decay rate.



    If all the virtues are at least equal to follower, seeker or knight, then the player perhaps gets some other bonus. And a title - say Servant, Paragon and Champion of the Virtues. Perhaps make the bonus the humilty reward. Humility's reward could be, I dont know, some sort of community recognition plaque reward for the best helper of the month. I dont know. I think there is a lot that could be done.

    It would be nice to overhaul the entire system and focus each virtue on a template/profession, however this would exclude complex skillsets and it would be nearly impossible to be a knight of all virtues.
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I would LOVE to see old/current content addressed instead of all this "new" (insert KR and all the other buggy/useless/unwanted crap) content.
    Finish what you start fer crying in a bucket.
    Things to address in no specific order.
    Factions
    Virtues
    Quests that no longer work/never worked
    Scripters/cheaters
    Bugs
    PvP
    ROT
    Pets being overpowered in PvP

    Then there are all the other things asked for...lets just address one, Storage
    Map books for the T-hunters
    Jewlrey boxes to sort rings n braces
    We have BoS but no chest of receving to move things from bank to home and back again, and/or the ability to cash in a commodity deed in our homes.
    Display cases for unique items (the case takes 1 item storage yet will hold a set amount of items permanently) drop item in and it is saved for posterity.
     
  21. <blockquote><hr>

    I would LOVE to see old/current content addressed instead of all this "new" (insert KR and all the other buggy/useless/unwanted crap) content.
    Finish what you start fer crying in a bucket.
    Things to address in no specific order.
    Factions
    Virtues
    Quests that no longer work/never worked
    Scripters/cheaters
    Bugs
    PvP
    ROT
    Pets being overpowered in PvP

    Then there are all the other things asked for...lets just address one, Storage
    Map books for the T-hunters
    Jewlrey boxes to sort rings n braces
    We have BoS but no chest of receving to move things from bank to home and back again, and/or the ability to cash in a commodity deed in our homes.
    Display cases for unique items (the case takes 1 item storage yet will hold a set amount of items permanently) drop item in and it is saved for posterity.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hijack attempt?

    Factions are being addressed... looks like the current storyline is part of that, but it's already been stated that factions are going to be getting a 3 phase referbishment (starting with changes that are on TC).

    You may have missed it (I only happened upon it by luck) but Jeremy posted that ROT is somewhere around the top of her list of things to be addressed.

    PVP is always getting adjustments. The PVP publish about a year ago fixed a lot of stuff. Rent pet ball nerf addressed a lot of other issues.

    Speaking of... you mention balancing pets in pvp. They are balanced. If anything, they're weak. I would prefer a dexer or a mage to a tamer in pvp any day of the week. It's just easier to kill people and stay alive on either character build. As for killing tamers... if you have played a tamer, you know how to kill them [​IMG]

    Scripters/cheaters is a big issue that has been getting a lot of dev attention recently. The houses that are still burning on all shards is one recent action in this area. Mass bannings of 1-2 yrs ago were other steps in this area. Cheating in pvp still fails to get addressed, which is a terrible shame. I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic of missing virutes, though.

    Storage is being addressed with item turnins. So far it looks like you can turn in your rat coins (I haven't confirmed this) and in a week or less you'll be able to turn in the rest. Honestly, I don't know how you run into storage problems without hoarding a bunch of crap, though. I don't even have a full size house right now and I can't seem to fill it up. Heck, I have a bag of GM instruments and 2 bags of event crap and I still am nowhere near filling the house.

    well anyway... I just think this reply is horribly off topic (just like my reply to your reply). I just wanted to point out that you listed several issues that are already being addressed or have already been addressed. Maybe you don't think the way these issues were addressed was satisfactory (pet ball nerf for example), but they have been addressed.
     
  22. Well, they finally finished the virtue armor. Is it too much to hope that they would finish the virtue quests?
     
  23. Glimps

    Glimps Guest

    I have never been able to get that Humility target to work. A (young Player) never see a thing when I target and I am told that has not been started yet. I donated to that shrine to see it that helped . Nope!
     
  24. Hhmmm...
    Perhaps I should have mentioned the missing three virtues.
    Currently Humility, Honesty and Spirituality don't work. They are the three missing virtues.
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I agree that having a half-finished system is a little painful ... a part of me would like to see it quickly finished for the sake of not being dangling there, a part of me would like to see a major rethink (such as linking them to decision-based quests and making them alignments akin to the fortune teller).

    A deeper question is whether players want to really embrace the virtues in the way they play the game or if its just become another buff that's mechanically farmed and forgotten. The true decisions in a multiplayer open-ended game that determine if one is acting virtuously or not are role-playing moments ... things not easily captured by any computation.
     
  26. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    488
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why do you even need the virtues in the game? If a player acts nice towards other players, are they not a follower of compassion? If another player refuses to kill violent animals and chooses instead to fight evil orcs and demons, are they not honourable?


    Come on, surely UO doesn't need to dumb itself down like other games... This is the whole point of a virtual world, players are able to define gameplay aspects through social encounters rather than relying on meaningless and arbitrary numbers and statistics. The fact people are only following virtues because it provides them a material reward proves they aren't very virtuous.
     
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I agree it would be nice if the DEV team would finish up all these loose ends that are lying about.... finishing up the Virtue system would be great... There are many things they could be doing ....... However! as a Knight I don't think that the in game system is any show of my ability to follow virtue...
     
  28. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    488
    Likes Received:
    0
    <blockquote><hr>

    However! as a Knight I don't think that the in game system is any show of my ability to follow virtue...

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Exactky. You define your own actions. We don't need mindless mechanics telling us how we play the game. People who play Ultima actually use most of their brain compared to other "role-playing" games.
     
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    And I would really love to see the Virtues like Sacrifice and Compassion be like Honor is...they only go down when used, and not just decay.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Heh, we agree on this.
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thats one of the silliest posts I've seen on here in a while.
     
  31. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    488
    Likes Received:
    0
    <blockquote><hr>

    Thats one of the silliest posts I've seen on here in a while.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Care to actually quote which one and uhh... explain WHY? That's usually what you do when you respond to someone's post.

    By the way, a lot of my ideas for Ultima in virtue are Garriott's opinions that I actually agreed with. Notice that in Ultima 6 and onwards you didn't have to keep donating gold to earn sacrifice points? Helping another character proved you understood sacrifice.
     
  32. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'd like to see the Virtues, in the points sense, more closely tied to regular gameplay rather than some artificial action where you specifically set out to gain that virtue.

    eg:
    Compassion: Healing/curing/ressing someone else, vetting someone else's pet, giving gold to a beggar, escorts, a variety of mercy quests..

    Humility: Using the begging skill, mentoring youngs, mining/lumberjacking, owning a modest house, dying..

    Sacrifice: Tithing gold at a collection point, donating items to an appropriate NPC (eg: metal objects to a smith), dropping points in another virtue (huge loss, small gain)..



    Admittedly I haven't put a lot of thought into it, or fully addressed all virtues, but just throwing ideas out there &amp; I've a few alternatives already. And of course some would simply powergame these but it's up to the individual what they make of the virtues, game mechanics or a code to play by.


    One thought I had was not limiting the number of attempts/gains per day to say 5 escorts for Compassion, but rather assign points on a diminishing return. eg: 128 points for the first escort, 64 for the second, 32 for the third and so on by halves down to 1 point minimum.

    Anyhow, yes, I'd like to see the virtues finished. [​IMG]
     
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The trouble with healing/begging/etc is that the virtues become very tightly knit to specific skills - so any bonus they give would effectively be a buff to that skill type. Even as it stands now, compassion is a little warped in that people rarely escort NPCs between towns - they gate NPCs if they are mage, otherwise they use short trips around New Haven.

    With the rise of the shadowlords with their harsh twisting, it actually makes sense to spend some thought about what virtues mean in UO. One problem I have in talking about it is that I have no memory of how the virtues worked in the original Ultima game, what they meant, how the shrines were viewed in the game other than that the different towns/dungeons were paired off in opposition and each NPC companion of the avatar represents the embodiment of a virtue.
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    We don't need mindless mechanics telling us how we play the game.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Um ... the entire game is just a framework of mindless mechanics. It's the whole reason you're paying a subscription rather than just swapping stories in email. Behavior is molded by the mechanics (or at the very least different mechanics attract people with different behavioral tendencies). The whole history of UO proves that people will not play properly unless the mechanics force them to (for various different interpretations of "properly").
     
  35. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    488
    Likes Received:
    0
    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    We don't need mindless mechanics telling us how we play the game.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Um ... the entire game is just a framework of mindless mechanics.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    But this is a unique case, we can express ourselves without telling the game. By going around and sacrificing my gold to other players is far more inspiring than me going around sacrificing "fame". How do you even sacrifice your fame? That makes no sense. You just walk up to a monster and shout "I'm not popular anymore".

    This game allows for self-expression, at least allow us todo it intelligently.
     
  36. But the point is this: UO started the system and never finished it. We have five virtues, but they never finished the last three. We should have the full eight working, or just delete the entire system.

    As far as how well the system works, we could all argue our personal likes or dislikes. Sacrificing fame may not make sense in a role playing enviroment, but fame means something to a lot of players and it is a true sacrifice to them to give up their fame.

    I like the system the way it is (I have to, I have been keeping up all five of my virtues each and every week!). I would like to see it finished and then we can talk about refining, changing or making it better.
     
  37. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I agree completely. Finish the Virtue System!
     
  38. Dean478

    Dean478 Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    488
    Likes Received:
    0
    <blockquote><hr>

    But the point is this... We should have the full eight working, or just delete the entire system.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This was my point. Why not just revise it and bring something completely new to the table. Much like what Kingdom Reborn did. Instead of refining an old system (Ultima Online Third Dawn/3D) it brought something new.

    It wouldn't be hard. The designers could even look to the 20+ year old Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar for some very simple mechanics to start with.

    I heard what you're saying though with finishing what was started. I was suprised when I returned to the game to find it was STILL not finished even though it came out with Lord Blackthorn's Revenge.