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Dragon Barding Deeds....

Discussion in 'UHall' started by StifledArgument, Jun 17, 2010.

  1. Ok, I don't know who the person is that thinks it is funny to have a dragon barding deed go poof after a couple of hours since this last patch, but whoever you are I hope rabid hyenas eat your face off.

    I haven't had time to mine, and with the randomization of ore it is a nightmare to mine now for anything specific and I am on a low pop server so no one has ingots, but my plain old iron barding deed, which used to last at least a day or two or three now has diddly for time before it is gone. For example, bought a dragon barding deed this morning at 9am CST. Within a few hours of fighting (4-5 total) my armor is gone.

    You are not stopping people from script mining, you are just making life uglier for those of us who are trying to get BOD ingots and apparently now dragon barding deed ingots. So, seriously, think about turning off ore randomization for all of our sakes.
     
  2. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    It's the same as it had been. Wears off quicker when you're fighting more.
     
  3. Mine don't seem to be lasting long either.
     
  4. Mine went poof the 1st time I went down to mess with Navrey.....I got back to the house and wondered why my swampy was so green.....it went poof when I died.

    If thats the case, armor on anyone should wear just as quick, leather before metal.
    Will that happen?? When people in hell get ice water.
     
  5. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    They only absorb 5k damage now right? at least the GM ones. So... that means every 50k damage you're losing your armor, unless it absorbs more then 10% damage. Then they'll go even quicker :/.
     
  6. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    hm, mine are showing 12k
     
  7. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    yes i think all old armor is lower and armor made since the patch has 12k
     
  8. Zalan

    Zalan Babbling Loonie
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    The amount of damage the barding can take also depends on the ingot type used to make it.

    Taken from Stratics:
    Durability

    Durability at new for normal quality barding is 10000, exceptional quality 12000 for metal types: iron, copper, bronze, gold, agapite, verite.

    Durability at new for normal quality barding is 12500, exceptional quality 14500 for metal types: dull copper, valorite.

    Durability at new for normal quality barding is 15000, exceptional quality 17000 for metal type: shadow iron.
     
  9. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Weird why shadow is better than higher metels? Valorite is not as easy to come by so it really makes no sense. Is there any reasoning behind this?
     
  10. olduofan

    olduofan Guest

    Shadow adds Durability I still have some old weapons with over 350 Durability on them
     
  11. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

  12. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    So it only has to do with durability mod to add to the armor. Interesting. It's not like any of us really care if there ressist are raised they are dead dragons regardless once unmounted. So it makes Shadow the desire ingot mod for all the armor. What was the old rate of durability before the change?
     
  13. Fink

    Fink Guest

    I guess everyone will run Shadow Iron for durability, more sameness.

    It would be nice if you could apply the cosmetic look of a particular ore and the functional qualities of another.
     
  14. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    Or be able to use a leather dye tub on the deed (as there all soft colours).

    Thunderz
     
  15. Saunders

    Saunders Lore Keeper
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    Or a natural dye, since they can be used on deeded items in special materials, and armour in special materials.
     
  16. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    Theres to many bright colours, people will moan like when they where dyable with tok dyes :(

    Thunderz
     
  17. Yen Sid

    Yen Sid Guest

    Why shouldn't people be able to dye them? If someone doesn't like it, don't do it. Use crap colors. But if I want to use Pretty Pink Haochi Pigment on mine, I should be able to. Anyone that doesn't like it can turn their brightness down :p. Natural dyes at least would be nice. They aren't that bright.
     
  18. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Yeah, theres too many bright colors in the game already. If you do want a pink mount, you can get a Cu :)

    Back to the topic. I too noticed the armor wearing out very quickly, and i only use it now when i Know ill need it. But yeah i can go thru the armor in a few solo naverys on my sampire. One thing that hasnt been brought up yet, is theres just so much more damage that a character can take without dying now. Imbuing and the new more powerful armor is great and makes this possible, but yes the swampy armor, even since its been improved, will wear out pretty quickly when taking massive amounts of damage.
     
  19. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    I have a couple 510 hallys, that folks paged game masters on for the durability once i explained and they tested it i think they released me and said they would not my account, that was each of the 6 times i was pulled in for it
     
  20. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    ill roll my proxy dragon it absorbs a bit less but im not having to re bard my dragon
     
  21. Mark_Mythic

    Mark_Mythic UO Legend
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    Hi all,

    Just sticking my head back in the forums after a fair length of silence due to getting 66 (and 66.5) done and being out on paternity leave a couple of weeks. Hope everyone who hangs out on Stratics is doing well.

    Swamp dragon armor works like it used to work, the main difference is that it now affects the resists on the swamp dragon (depending on the properties of the ore), supports the exceptional quality bonus, and can have it's durability increased by certain ores.

    The bonuses it gives is directly related to plate armor bonuses when made with special ore. I didn't make up new properties for the ore, I just made it apply to the dragon.

    As before, when you are riding the dragon and take damage, some of the damage is mitigated by the dragon's armor. This works seperately from your resists, it is a straight reduction in damage. The armor takes durability damage when this effect occurs. This effect does not work in PvP.

    I am aware that the easier to find ores are going to be attractive as dragon armor because they raise durability and are cheaper. My hope is that these ores will finally have a decent market, especially since dragon armor is disposable.

    The primary goal in the improvement was to increase this creatures survivability and thus their viability. I was advised that swamp dragons weren't used very often because if you got dismounted the dragon would almost surely be killed. Swamp dragons do fairly low damage, but with the right armor they are a servicable, if consumable, tank that takes 1 taming slot.

    UO is all about options, your options, and I hope these changes have made this creature a more interesting and useful option. As some people in this thread posted, the options are not infinite, but there are more of them now than there used to be. Long live the sandbox game!

    I really hope you all enjoy this upgrade to the swamp dragon armor. :)
     
  22. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Shadow Ore isn't actually cost effective.

    from the Dragon Barding Page
    that's less than a 50% increase in durability, but shadow ore is typically much more than 50% more expensive than iron ore.


    Oh and @Mark:
    If no one else, I can say I'm very grateful for the resists increase.
    It had been incredibly frustrating having my swamp dragons 1-shotted by certain monsters. Then have to wait 10 mins and run to town to get it rezed, and by that time the monster has fully healed.
     
  23. Yen Sid

    Yen Sid Guest

    If the leave was due to having a child, congrats :). The upgrades to the Barding are nice but, the do wear out much faster than before the changes. I have been through 50 or so iron deeds since the change and I haven't even played more than 10 hours in the past week. A durability increase would be nice, along with special ore as well, maybe bump every deed up another 5k points? I mean, at this rate, I'm going to have to spend more time mining then fighting. Not cool lol.
     
  24. Kim Li of LS

    Kim Li of LS Guest

    How about making dragon barding repairable like other armor?-it seems to be much more closely matching pc armor, so that makes sense.
     
  25. Yen Sid

    Yen Sid Guest

    Yeah but shadow iron ore can be farmed unlike any other ore.
     
  26. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    I'd like to be able to dye the armor as well. I already hate being pigeonholed by having to wear this robe or that robe on every character.

    Really hate the loss of individuality thats happening...
     
  27. Yen Sid

    Yen Sid Guest

    QFT:thumbup1:.
     
  28. Thav12

    Thav12 Seasoned Veteran
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    I think it is great that Dragon barding is getting a little upgrade. A few issues though in reply to Mark-Mythics note:

    Against any reasonable creature a swamp dragon is used, the dragon still barely lasts long enough to log out to try and save the dragon once the owner of the dragon bites the dust. Tanking a swampy is out of the question still, unless you fight earth ele's.

    Any reasonable person using dragon barding will use Normal Iron ingots as the cost/effect ratio is off for any of the other types. Even before the changes, this was already the case, since there was really no benefit (other than color) of wearing any different barding.

    THe barding now lasts much shorter than before, and as such one has to use many more bardings/ingots for the dragon to be effective.

    Conclusion must be that the intended effect is not reached. Only effect the changes have had is a much higher turnover of regular iron ingots.

    I think a more logical way of doing it is to change the durability inversely to its rarity. Verite should last a hell of a lot longer than Iron. I would still use Iron, but could shell out more money if I wanted to go with valorite for instance and have it last longer. To make Iron then more attractive, I would make Iron armor last a little more than expected based on the rarity of iron. Inversely, I would make valorite last a little less long based on its rarity. I could still choose to pick valorite if I am filthy rich and don't want ot renew barding very often, or if I don't want to run the risk of loosing it during a protracted fight.

    Another alternative could be to make certain bardings have higher resist against a particular elemental. E.g. verite (sorta green) high poison resist, hence lasting much longer vs poisoning creatures and valorite (sorta blue) high cold resist, lasting longer against cold attack creatures. (bronze could be fire, shadow could be physical, and pick another for energy) this could be a nice way of doing it as well, or in addition to the above. It would also finally make it understandable why dragon barding is even removable. Having 5 different bardings in various states of decay in your back pack would then make sense and worth the expense...
     
  29. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Thank you for commenting. Please give me a moment to explain how it works. Im glad you did mention sandbox and also bringing up the market. Ok now the swamp dragons in no way are able to be tankable. The players that use these dragons is to help out in close physical damage. The dragon by itself will not last a moment on the type of spawns it is used. Nobody waste ingots to go fight low end to mid end creatures that they can kill with there eyes closed with little reward. 99% of the time if the rider is of that dragon that poor little dragon is going to be killed by a magic wielding, hard hitting monster if the rider cannot return in time no matter what the ressit the dragon has. Monsters cast magic and hit and use there specials all at the same time. So Basicaly shadow is the ore to use the rest are only cosmetic and will not be used for functuality unless there is no choice.

    Now bringing up the market of metel means they need a purpose. As always the rarer the metels the higher the price. So even if shadow is mainly used it's price will not raise above rare metels which is how it should be, though easier to get the less need is needed from the dedicated miner-crafter guilds and still the prices drop contrary to the current average gold per player . According to the market and oldest mining-crafter guilds in the shards and my own buy-sell experience the prices currently of ingots are on the low end
    There were plenty of fluctuations like valorite heading down to 250 during the year because of supply and demand and certain events like market flooding. But these are the closest steady prices without taking the rest into account.
    Current less than a year ago
    iron 6.58 15
    dull 25 50
    shadow 70 100
    copper 20 45
    bronze 30 55
    gold 70 125
    agapite 113 200
    verite 183 300
    valorite 350 400
     
  30. Mark_Mythic

    Mark_Mythic UO Legend
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    I am open to tweaking the armor further, but I want the change to be simple. I don't want the player to need a slide rule to decide which armor they want to use.

    Right now, the durability is decreased by the unmodified damage, then the damage is applied based on the resists.

    If you see it going down faster than before it is because this happens when you are on the mount (as before) and when the swamp dragon is hit when you aren't on it (because the swamp dragon is getting the benefit of the armor.)

    So, the 2 most obvious changes to me are:

    A) increase the durability on all armors regardless of ore... most likely just double it.

    or

    B) remove durability based on modified damage, not base damage.

    A would leave the value of the various ores pretty much the same and just reduce downtime.

    B would increase the relevance of their differences.

    Here is a couple of design goals I didn't mention before:

    It is important to me that this is some love for armor makers and miners and that is why I want it to be consumable/disposable. However, I realize that if it is consumed too quickly then it won't be used and thus is not helping anyone. It seems to me that 4 hours of use is about right but I'm willing to debate that point.

    Also, I don't want everybody to use swampdragons, I want it to be an interesting choice, not a required one. This supports the above poster's comment about individuality.

    We tried putting pet dyes in SA and the players rejected it big time... like, there was an uproar. 90% absolutely hated it and 10% loved it. So, I'm just saying we tried but the community rejected it. Since the dragon armor changes the whole color of the dragon, it is the closest thing we have to a pet dye. That means you get 9 colors including base ore which is more than you get for any other mount or pet.
     
  31. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    If this is the case, I'd suggest having durability scale at the same rate as the ore rarity. (taking into account prospector's tools and gargoyle pickaxes)
    Neither want Iron armor to be useless nor Valorite armor to be useless in comparison to the cost difference.

    Honestly, I think, if you keep the hues toned down, that there wont be too much outrage for different colors of swamp dragon armor.
    Swamp Dragons are incomparable in this regard to all other pets due to the fact that they've always been able to change colors, so people are used to it, more or less.
    However, that doesn't apply to Blaze or Glacial dyed armor :p
    For a suggestion: I think people would general be fine with darker, natural-looking hues.
     
  32. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    Taking this one step further, why does it only have to be swamp dragons?
    Really, it's just a mount graphic. Aside from armor, there is not an advantage to riding a swamp dragon vs. a horse, etc.

    Why not have 'swamp horses' , 'swamp llamas' , 'swamp ridgebacks' (ew, but to each their own) (and no, don't call them that, it's just for the example)

    all still need to be tamed by someone just like the current swamp dragon.

    dragon barding becomes 'animal barding'

    Now it just becomes player preference as to which mount graphic they personally like the best.

    Not a single worry about how this affects that template or unbalances this or that. It just restores a little piece of individuality.
     
  33. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    armored dread mares and gd's? Oh my.. what a can of worms that would be!
     
  34. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    Thanks Mark, but being 100% efficient in this game already requires an advanced mathematics degree.. SSI, HCI, DCI, HMC, Perfection, EEO, Parry, DI. shield/no shield.. you name it. :gee:

    Swampies are never gonna be a tank machine, merely a boost to the riders resists.I'd merely suggest dropping the normal v. exceptional differences. If need be boost the requirement in the smithy gump for skill level to make sure they are either exceptional or fail to make. It makes great use of ASH's.

    Other than that, those smarter with higher advanced mathematics degrees than I should have very valuable input for you.
     
  35. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Like the previous poster said scale the armor by the rarity of the metel. Ressit of the dragon makes no difference it's dead anyway if you can't get back on it.
    I wouldn't worry about everyone using swamp. Tamers will not use them,mages won't use them either they need the followers and not to get hit. Archers might or might not though they keep there distance. The up close fighters will use them adn use them now exclusively as they need all the protection they can get.
    The pet dye issue had to do with destroying the rare pet color market. Dyes look too much like the rare color pets people have spent years or even a decade trying to obtain. If you made dyes just for the armor of the swamp dragon i doubt anybody will object as long as it's only used for them, They don't have any other rare color to them.
     
  36. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    Is there a possibility of making barding deeds with a runic hammer and the possible chance of the self repair property added to it? and if it is maybe arms lore the deed will show what runic property it retains
     
  37. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    He said he wanted to give miners and smith love not make them useless after the first self repair deed.
     
  38. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    Not exactly. Read again.
     
  39. Mark_Mythic

    Mark_Mythic UO Legend
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    Well, while it isn't out of the question, let me reveal to you that when you put armor on the swamp dragon it is actually changing to a different mob. So, what you are really saying is that you want new mobs x the number of ridable pets.

    I would love to add barding for horses, which is just 1 more mob, but ultimately that is an art task and I don't make the art schedule. The idea of horse barding has floated around a few times here and it has never actually floated onto the schedule, something else has always been more urgent. Maybe if we can get the swamp dragon armor to be fun and somewhat popular, it will bouy up a bit in priority.
     
  40. Yen Sid

    Yen Sid Guest

    While we have you here Mark, this is a little off topic, but, can the Conjurer's Garb please be fixed to make it considered an artifact so Hoachi's Dyes and Tokuno Dyes work on them, I don't think it would take but 5 minutes.

    Back on topic, I think option A would be fine, just double the current durability of Barding.
     
  41. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    I now officially hate the art dept's. schedule. :p
     
  42. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    Ok, I'll be serious now.

    Myself, I'm fine with how long the armor lasts. If you wanted to bump the durability that's fine too. I'm just used to carrying 3 or 4 deeds in my pack and insuring them for the 3 gold it costs.

    Most people run swampys because it plays a big part in their particular template, namely sampires. If I didn't really need the thing I wouldn't use it. Mostly because it can be difficult running it around maze like paths due to it's length. Always getting stuck on something.

    I do think that if armor GREATLY increased it's survivability when it's rider dies it would be used a lot more. Even at it's current durability. With the current resist changes it doesn't help that much.
     
  43. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Which reminds me, they actually do have an unused plain ridgeback animation in game. Currently all we have are "savage ridgebacks" even for the plain ones. Regular ridgebacks without all the tribal paint exist, but they're not in game.
     
  44. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Recycle the Charge of the Fallen graphic. It's a horse. It's armored. Rehue it or something so people don't get too mad.
    Giant Beetles wouldn't need new graphics since the carapace is armor anyway, could rehue them.

    And if you're making new mounts in game you might as well go all out and make a Battle Cow.
    Or if you want to go less humorous and more awesome, Grizzly work too.
     
  45. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    Screw that! I'm sold! I now want a battle cow.

    When people ask me now for more cow bell, I can BRING IT!

    Get to work on it ASAP Mark!
     
  46. Zalan

    Zalan Babbling Loonie
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    Armored Battle Chicken Lizards FTW!
     
  47. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    you still lose alot with heavy combat, anything below a 5 would still break, and no one in their right mind would waste valorite runic charges on a dragon barding deed
     
  48. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    A few good ideas here :)

    I think increasing the durability x2 would be good.

    With reguards to horse barding, Miner has a good idea to use the charger graphics and hue it the colour of the ore just like with swampys. Will have to ensure its only plain old horses not dreads/firesteeds/mares ETC so its just another choice over riding a armorred swampy.

    Id love pet dyes even if there just ore colours or current colours of pets we already have to start with, as most people are comfortable seeing red dragons, swampys with armour on, faction horse colours ETC.

    Thunderz
     
  49. There are good ideas in this thread, but I really appreciate a Mythic person responding. Thank you Mark! I had no idea anyone would reply to me, I was in a ranting place when I wrote this obviously and it has been so hard to find dragon barding deeds as it is as of late or ingots for sale. I tried mining yesterday, but even getting colored ores seem to be ridiculously hard to get right now.

    I like the fact that resists and the ore properties have been included now in barding, it makes it interesting but getting the ingots to go with it have been a pain as of late. Maybe a slight durability increase should be in order?

    And thanks everyone for your input!
     
  50. I like the 2x durability idea. I would personally love to have a armor llama , but would be happy to have a armored horse aswell.