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Dragon Turtles and HP

Discussion in 'UHall' started by S_S, Oct 29, 2015.

  1. S_S

    S_S Certifiable
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    Really????

    I hatched my first Dragon Turtle, lored it before taming it...1500+ HP

    Tamed it, barely 700HP now. What a waste. :(
     
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  2. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    I wish they had higher stats more often than regular pets just because they're such a pain in the ass to get.
     
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  3. S_S

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    This, plus I feel these were put in the game hoping tamers would use them instead of the larger graphic Greater Dragons. But darned if I'm giving up my almost 1k hp for barely 700. :(
     
  4. Gamer_Goblin

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    They lose 50% just like Greaters. It's the same as greater dragons. I'm not sure what people don't get about it.
     
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  5. S_S

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    What I don't get is WHY Dragon Turtles have to be the same way? Not like I can go lore and kill 30 of them before finding a decent one. I'll just keep using my Greater Dragon and players will keep pancakes about the lag they cause at events and such.
     
  6. Acid Rain

    Acid Rain Lore Keeper
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    So long as the eggs keep flying off my vendor, I'm a happy camper :)
    Great job with the new fellas !
     
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  7. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    they arnt the same as GD's

    they gain back up to within 10% of their original skills which is higher then GD's
     
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  8. kitiara-atlantic

    kitiara-atlantic Lore Master
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    ???

    Greater dragons do train up to 90% of their original skills (the the exception of magery, which maxes out at whatever the post-tame value is). Turtles lose more of their skill value upon taming but train back up to 90%, same as GDs.

    The only difference I have found between turtles and GDs is how much skill they lose upon taming (28% for GDs, 55% for turtles). But they train back up to the same 90% of wild. (That's based on data collected of just under 400 turtle eggs, so the sample size could be larger, but has been consistent).
     
  9. Eric Ravenwind

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    I agree. The HP range on turtles is extreme. Should make them go no lower than 750. I've hatched 3 so far - first one was the best on HP (750), the last 2 where 500-600...
     
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  10. kitiara-atlantic

    kitiara-atlantic Lore Master
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    I believe this is the same range as GDs. Their low end wild is 1,000 hp, which would be 500 after taming. I think we just don't see as many GDs that low because they'd be killed off and never tamed in the first place when being farmed.
     
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  11. Hazel868789

    Hazel868789 Adventurer

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    So, inquisitive minds want to know.

    What is the best "calculator" value you have gotten on the turtles??

    Thanks
     
  12. Gamer_Goblin

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    I've seen a 4.1. I have a 3.7 untrained. 3.8 trained.
     
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  13. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    Two 2.0 and a 2.5 out of the 3 I've hatched. I released and killed all 3.

    I'm just gonna buy a 4.0+ turtle if I want one. Although I also have no issues just sticking with my 4.3 Greater Dragon.
     
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  14. Gamer_Goblin

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    They are a pain to train anyways... Finding something with around 50 Wrestling that lives long enough...
     
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  15. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    discorded Shadow Elemental until your turtle get high enough then undisco the SE and carry on till the turtle is the same level then disco both and continue on until cap is reached.

    same time as a greater dragon to train to cap.
    ive done it 4 times already.
     
  16. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Yeah I'll just stick with a greater dragon for the rare times I use a tamer. This isn't worth the trouble.
     
  17. Marquis de Sade 209

    Marquis de Sade 209 Journeyman
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    I agree! It has been that way forever, why the shock now?
     
  18. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    I think the "shock" is over the fact that the turtle eggs are pretty much the only reward from the champ (no, the books don't count since EVERY champ/peerless drops those) and people are disappointed that the majority of the hatchlings are trash that nobody in their right mind would bother training.

    I get that the turtle was the response to the desire for smaller GD-equivalent pets, specifically to cut down on the screen hogging at events, but its a less than perfect solution. Giving us the option to shrink our GDs down to drake size, a graphic that already exists, would be another option...though I'd like the ability to visually turn GDs into skree to be built into the clients.

    Simply bumping up the stats on the turtles so that more of them were worthy of a player's time training it would be better, making it far more reward-like.

    Fortunately, I was lucky to hatch one that had 850-something HP after taming, so it might actually turn out decent. However, that was after hatching four others that were worthless.
     
    #18 Dot_Warner, Oct 30, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
  19. BeaIank

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    Miasma. Lives fairly long enough, has 60 ish wrestling and spawns fast. And can kick your turtle's butt like the Shredder.
     
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  20. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Try Ortanords? They are pretty much unkillable. Don't know if their skill level is good enough.
     
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  21. Gamer_Goblin

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    I'll give em a try. UOGuide says their wrestling is only 19.
     
  22. kitiara-atlantic

    kitiara-atlantic Lore Master
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    4.1 so far is the best I've seen... next closest, a few 3.6's. A large majority have been under 2.6.
     
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  23. kitiara-atlantic

    kitiara-atlantic Lore Master
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    I've been discording Sphynx until the turtle gets high enough to leave Sphynx au naturale.
     
  24. Gamer_Goblin

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    Found a dude in Yomatsu Mine with a Shadow Ele Discorded. About three Whisperings later I'm almost fully trained except for resist/anat/eval.
     
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  25. kitiara-atlantic

    kitiara-atlantic Lore Master
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    Nice - level 3 whispering?
     
  26. Gamer_Goblin

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    Just level 1. Haven't lucked into a level 3 book yet.
     
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  27. Yadd of Legends

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    Has anyone yet got a dragon turtle that's better than their GD?
     
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  28. Yadd of Legends

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    Nobody?
     
  29. kitiara-atlantic

    kitiara-atlantic Lore Master
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    I acquired my best GD this past year (so, after approximately 6 years of farming them) - a 4.4.

    My best turtle so far is a 4.1.

    To be fair, I don't think 6 years of farming and 3 weeks of champ spawns are anywhere near equivalent. I expect it to take quite some time to acquire an equivalent turtle, and I think I have been quite lucky thus far to have gotten a 4+ in such a short time.

    (Point being - by the time turtles have been around as long as GDs have, everybody will have great ones). I don't think it's reasonable to expect to just immediately replace pets that have taken years of farming to acquire. It will be just like the process of getting your best GD. You keep the best turtle you can find. Train it up. Use it until you get a better turtle. Replace the first one. Train up the new guy. Use him until you get a better turtle. And so on.
     
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  30. Yadd of Legends

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    Thanks, Kit. Are we comparing oranges and oranges when we compare ratings for GDs and turtles? For instance, a 3.5 GD will far outdamage a 4.8 cu because they have different skills, stats and resists. Are GDs and turtles with the same ratings otherwise functionally equivalent? Sorry I haven't had a chance to study this further
     
  31. BeaIank

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    My turtles are better than my GDs, but mostly because my GDs are pretty horrible.
     
  32. kitiara-atlantic

    kitiara-atlantic Lore Master
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    Hi Yadd -

    Yes, turtles are identical once trained to greater dragons. Kryonix confirmed it at the dev meet and greet the other night. When asked if turtles are the same as GDs, he said, "Yes. Line for line."

    11/2/15 Dev Meet And Greet On Chesapeake Transcript

    I believe the main benefit to a turtle is that it is much smaller and less flappy (and therefore less visually troublesome at large spawns and events).
     
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  33. TimberWolf

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    can anyone link me to a site that has the resists and max stats for a tamed turtle?
     
  34. Yadd of Legends

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    What would you need it if the turtles are exactly the same as the dragons? I assume there's already some link to the maximum stats and resists of dragons?
     
  35. TimberWolf

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    well I didnt know they were exactly the same as a grt dragon??? Foolish me assumed a water based turtle might have different resists then a land based dragon
     
  36. Thoronnar

    Thoronnar Journeyman

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    They kinda suck for how hard they are to get. idk what the devs are doing about the pet revamp, or when it is going to be ready. But it would be sick to see changes not only on overall power but something like "slayers". For example: " Dread horn is really powerful against greater dragon and other reptiles, but it is weak against tigers". Then you'll see people actually training and using tigers. You'll also see tammers using the old classic combinations of pets like nightmare and white wyrm. Just adds more fun to the game, makes it more dynamic. And not everyone is using GG all the time.

    You see a few dragon turtles around cause they're new. But let's be real, it is way easier to get a powerful GG than a DT. So if it stays this way, dragon turtle is just going to be some useless creature, like every other pet other than GG and Cu Sidhe.
     
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  37. railshot

    railshot Journeyman
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    The question at the Meet and Greet was about stats, not skills or abilities. While it does look that skills are the same, abilities seem to be different. Has anyone seen a turtle do a fire breath yet?
     
  38. BeaIank

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    Many, many times.
     
  39. Yadd of Legends

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    Kitiara in Post #32
    "Yes, turtles are identical once trained to greater dragons. Kryonix confirmed it at the dev meet and greet the other night. When asked if turtles are the same as GDs, he said, 'Yes. Line for line.' "
    Personally, I rather they wish they were a bit different. I have a couple pretty good greater dragons and just haven't been motivated to replace it with a turtle with the same practical function except smaller - especially since getting a good turtle looks like such a hassle (spawn, stand around 20 minutes, spawn, stand around 20 minutes, spawn, stand around 20 minutes ... finally get an egg, incubate for 3 days, lore it to see it's no good, kill it, spawn, stand around 20 minutes, spawn ... you get the idea
    EDIT: OK, knowing the mind of the UO player, I can think of 3 reasons people might go through all that bother
    1. Hoping to get the highest rated turtle in the game just so you can brag about it
    2. Hoping to get the highest rated turtle so you can sell it to somebody else who wants to brag about it
    3. Hoping to get eggs to sell to people who fall in one of the above categories and don't want to go to all the bother themselves
     
    #39 Yadd of Legends, Nov 5, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2015
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  40. railshot

    railshot Journeyman
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    Ugh, the devs were that lazy? Just copy and paste with a new wrapper? Well, that's disappointing, especially given the whole egg hatching hassle.
     
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  41. railshot

    railshot Journeyman
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    I kind of feel the same way. Given how many GDs you can spawn looking for the right one in the time it takes to get one egg, it's much, much (we are talking order's of magnitude here) more difficult to get a good turtle compared to a GD. All for a marginal benefit of smaller size. And if you do put in the time, get lucky and hatch a 4+, we still have a looming pet revamp which finally might happen and make your hard hatched turtle useless.
     
  42. BeaIank

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    It would be indeed nice if they were distinct from greater dragons (energy or cold fire breath, higher cold or energy resist), but oh well.
    I like them better than greaters because I hate having overgrown, fire breathing featherless chicken following me around.

    I am sticking to the ones I got for now, but I will keep on hunting for a slight better one. No need to be 4.0+, but if it has better, more normalized resists, it will do for me. :p
    Still, I would much prefer if they had higher starting stats before the RNG hits so it would be slight easier to get a good one.
    Getting them involve far more work than getting a greater fire breathing featherless chicken.
     
  43. TimberWolf

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    thanks for the info....I was unaware...
     
  44. Thoronnar

    Thoronnar Journeyman

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    The whole expansion looks like a lazy work, I am sure it wasn't a lazy work but that's what it looks like. To my opinion it is one of the worst expansions if not the worst of UO. And I am sorry I ***** about it, but it is absurd that they copied greater dragon on turtle dragon and that was it, that was the great expansion regarding tamming. Seriously?

    Really think about it, what did the expansion brought? other than ugly lands, a champ spawn that's popular only cause it is new, a useless tiger, a smaller and harder to get greater dragon. And the skill masteries, which they made sound bigger than what they are. They really raised our expectations before this expansion, to come up with a mediocre job. The fact that the turtle dragon is just a copy from the greater dragon is one of the many proofs that this expansion really looks like some lazy work.

    I am sorry to be so harsh, but this work really looks like it was done by an intern, or some sort of aficionado, rather than a team of experienced software developers. And hey, these things happen all the time, and it is ok, but you fix it!. And it looks like this is going to stay the way it is with some minor touches... "the TT is the same as the GG line by line" are you kidding me? so it took you years to create a new object which inherits all attributes from an already created object? AKA copy paste. This expansion needs MAJOR touches. It has happenned to me to, a few months ago at work I handed in a report about my research that was... well... mediocre... and by the looks of everyone I understood the report was double whopper with cheese. However, the work I did, and the idea behind it was great, and the report didn't hold up to the work done. I put more attention on the report, lots of hours, and the result was probably the best paper I've ever written in my entire career, and everyone at the company was really happy and impressed about it. My point is, this expansion could be superb, and bring a ton of new players to UO. But that's NOT going to happen if they don't realize the work was crap and needs to be redone.
     
  45. Yadd of Legends

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    I have to agree with everything you said except the observation that this expansion has the potential to be superb. Sorry, I don't see any potential, need a clean slate and a restart. A game needs some atmosphere to be engrossing - unless you just want a barren item scramble - and these new lands have no atmosphere at all that I can detect. I still prefer hanging around the old lands and at least pretending I'm doing something meaningful. Frankly, I'd be playing Witcher 3 if my video card could handle it, and Skyrim is tugging at me again just to have a place with some atmosphere, story line and believable characters that you can engross yourself in.
    EDIT: I would amend "lazy" to "limited resources," as Mal pointed out, but the outcome is the same.
     
  46. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    While I do understand your sentiment here I feel the need to remind you that the "Team" you speak of is no where near what it's been in years past. If you need proof of that go back and look at how many DEV's we had back around AoS, ML or any of the other big expansions. There were dozens of DEV names back then. Then look at what we have now..... Here's a hint for you..... You can count their heads.
     
  47. railshot

    railshot Journeyman
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    Yes, very limited resources and the notion of "why bother with the tamers if we are planning to revamp everything soon(tm)". TBH few years back I did not expect another expansion ever.

    Nevertheless, I am still very underwhelmed by the expansion. Masteries are nothing more than few additional spells. With a couple of notable exceptions (soon to be nerfed?) they are underpowered enough for most people not to bother. The champ is nice addition and so is Shadowguard, but I really think they should have stuck those somewhere on existing lands and not wasted their resources on a new landmass that is very unfinished, and ultimately not needed.
     
  48. Thoronnar

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    If limited resources is the problem they should focus on improving the current game. This expansion should have never happenned. UO is big enough, and has enough to offer. No more content needs to be added, but content can be improved. Why didn't they add new hunting features? or improve dungeons? They've done it before. Do what you can with your resources, don't try and do more!. I think this whole expansion should be removed. Tiger should be place in Tokuno or something, and turtle dragon should be placed somewhere people often don't go. Lands are huge already and full of lore that can be exploited, and not many resources are needed for that and to keep the game alive. All new players want is that, a live game.

    And the reason why I said this expansion could have been superb was just to be optimistic, I am afraid me, and many people are going to be "forced" to start migrating to other games soon if things don't get better. There's a bunch of free UO shards out there anyway if we ever feel nostalgic... The only reason I am still here is because I support this project, and paying for it is completely fair. But that ends when things go downhill, like with this expansion.

    If a new game comes out on steam, and it is mediocre you simply don't buy it. You're not like "Oh they had limited resources, so I'll buy it". It is nonsense.
     
    #48 Thoronnar, Nov 6, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2015
  49. drcossack

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    I'd like that. A cold-element fire breath attack would be cool.

    As for me, I'm sticking with my Greater Dragon, which is a 4.3 - I lucked into it last year at Fel Destard. Given how strong my current GD is, I'm not too concerned with getting an equivalent turtle.
     
  50. railshot

    railshot Journeyman
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    My best is 4.1, and after thinking about how much time it would take to get a similar turtle, ironically I went to the Fire temple and started taming some dragons. I think I have a much better chance of a 4.2+ GD than a decent turtle.