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Duel Clienting at Despise(Andros)

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Winker, Oct 16, 2012.

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  1. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Ok so these days its legal to run two clients at once, although its not a supported activity by EA support.

    What I want clarification on is if running two clients at Despise champ(Andros) is ok? The reason I ask, is that so many people are now running 2 clients try to double there chance of getting the artefact to drop to them instead of anyone else. I am constantly paging a GM on people running two clients down there and nothing is being done about it. It just cant be fair/legal for this to be going on and no one seams to be able or care enough to stop it.

    If it is illegal how the hell do we get a GM to turn up within 30 mins and do something about it? On a good day you wont see a GM for 2 hours after you make a report and on a Bad day it can take 8 hours for someone to turn up.

    Its getting to the stage, where I am going to have to do the same to even compete down there. This should be stopped now or we should be told its ok to duel client and just get on with it.
     
    #1 Winker, Oct 16, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  2. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Fair and legal are 2 different things. I think you answered you own question in the first sentence though. *shrugs*
     
  3. P.W.N

    P.W.N Guest

    Its time something was done about a lot of things in uo but duel clienting is kind of unfair esp when it comes to arties and in such places like despise.. i have also seen and reported many people for it too but got no reply from the gms nor did it stop them doing it, so in game justice was served accordingly :pirate:
     
    #3 P.W.N, Oct 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2012
  4. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    Running 2 accounts doesnt have to mean they are duel clienting. It can be 2 different computers, and - as long there is no illegal 3rd party program involved, there is nothing illegal doing it. For the 'fairness', they have 2 or more accounts they are paying for - so their ability to use more than one client they have paid for.
     
  5. P.W.N

    P.W.N Guest

    But technically speaking its still duel clienting and you can't be at both computers at the same time and not be afk on another so it is breaking the tos really and wheather they pay for the accounts or not makes no odds to me,maybe there is a time and a place for duel clienting but not at the expense of others when its a team activity. AMEN
     
  6. MatlocK

    MatlocK Adventurer
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    If I pay for the accounts why can't I run them? I have ran three clients to kill Adrian because I could not get any help on the dead shard I play. Be happy you have help:) keep complaining and you won't have any help at all.
     
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  7. P.W.N

    P.W.N Guest

    Your missing the entire point of the convo Derby... everyone who has more than one account duel clients,i duel client but i do it when i have to and not at the expense of others... the point been is it legal or not? it can't be legal because one account is afk for periods of time.. this might be a case of kettle black but you play a dead shard to farm the arties so that's your choice..no help required as i have access to 7 accounts :)
     
  8. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Not really. I know one person who can run three accounts, all on different screens, and controlled by the same keyboard... NO clue how he does it. But dude can carry on a conversation with all three of his chars and never miss a beat.
     
    Bazer likes this.
  9. P.W.N

    P.W.N Guest

    That sounds highly illegal even if it is possible lol, that sounds a lot like pi$$ing into the wind and not getting wet.
     
  10. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Isn't that call boxing and that’s illegal in UO
     
    #10 Winker, Oct 16, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  11. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Dual clienting is not illegal.

    You admit this in your post.

    Multi-boxing, typically defined as the use of a 3rd party program to automate functions on more than one accounts (basically scripting multiple accounts so they operate in cooperation), is, because it uses illegal 3rd party programs.

    It does not take an illegal 3rd party program to switch between accounts using Windows and type.

    Nor does it take an illegal 3rd party program to walk two characters to the Despise champ and toggle to aggressive mode.

    Nor does it take an illegal 3rd party program to have 2 characters at any high-end PvM situation and have one throw heals and Rising Colossi and the other tank the monster, as many do.

    Being afk is not illegal (all stories you hear about being banned for bank-sitting aside). Automating functions while you're not at the keyboard is legal. And I'm sorry but because your screen is minimized for a moment, or because you have another UO screen as the active window, is not afk in any meaningful sense. Nor would it matter if it was, because what's illegal is the automation of functions while you're afk. (So don't use a coin to hold down a spell key and then walk away.)

    Everything I'm saying has been widely and unambiguously known for quite awhile.

    There's enough instances where the rules of this game are unfortunately ambiguous. Pretending there's even more ambiguity than there is in actual fact serves no good purpose but does serve many ill purposes.

    -Galen's player
     
    #11 GalenKnighthawke, Oct 16, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
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  12. P.W.N

    P.W.N Guest

    But been afk whilst killing a spawn/champ is illegal,it might be legal to duel client but the point been you can't man two accounts and be on both at the same time without hastle
     
  13. Ron Silverbeard

    Ron Silverbeard Certifiable
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    Hmm, how would anybody be able to proof if it would be (which is NOT the case)....maybe by checking the Computer ID loged onto the client?
    I doubt thats possible - what they can see is that you are using the same IP - but than it could still be 4 computers on that IP...
    They would have to catch you red-handed knocking on your door and even THAN you would have to open the door hehe

    I understand some peoples anger concerning dual, tripple or quad-clienting - but i cant see any solution this would change...
    And in the end, and i have to agree to this too, you pay 2, 3, 4 accounts, you should be able to play them anytime you want and how you want (exept using illegal things...as we all know)
     
    #13 Ron Silverbeard, Oct 16, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  14. Ron Silverbeard

    Ron Silverbeard Certifiable
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    Using 4 screens with a client on each screen i am able to never be afk sitting in front of them - having my hands on the keyboard and not away - so its not afk ;)

    Leaving my comp for hitting the sack, running scripts on each client till i get up and ready for work, now that would be something the FBI will knock on your door for sure if you know what i mean - dont even THINK about it ehhe
     
    #14 Ron Silverbeard, Oct 16, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  15. Olahorand

    Olahorand Slightly Crazed
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    If one account is in foreground, and a second one is on background (example you use two tamers on different accounts to attack one monster, and use one tamer to heal both pets if needed) this doesn't mean the second account is AFK - since accounts represent players, and the player behind still has control. And if I pay for two accounts, why shouldn't I play them together in certain situations?
     
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  16. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    :scholar: You can EASILY "man" two or more accounts at one time!! :next: As long as you can see what is going on in the game and if need be take control of that client, you are NOT AFK.

    :pancakes: Using two or more clients is perfectly legal, it just isn't supported meaning, they will not help you if one is crashing, or causing problems.

    This is a fact - deal with it :gun:
     
  17. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Takes some practice to operate two mice. Edge keys of both keyboards for the common hotkeys and multi button mice. We are all our own best friend so why not hunt together?

    AFK checks from a GM is them syaing "Dude?" Then it is a coin toss if it is directed at the tamer doing the healing. Unless your overlapping those outdated small 2d screens on a new wide screens.
     
  18. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    In seeing these attempts to equate having 2 clients running (legal) and multi-boxing (illegal) I am reminded of a line from the cartoon program Daria (on the Music Television network).

    "If you wanna get technical about it, all writing is plagiarism since you're using words that've been used before."

    The character speaking that line was attempting to pretend that she had written the novel Dracula by Bram Stoker, because she put her name on it and pretended it was her work. Clearly, she argued, this is not any more plagiarism than it would be if I wrote my own story using words that had been used before, by anyone, ever.

    Of course this isn't true. Rather it is an attempt to equate two unlike things by showing that they are alike on a vector that's so shallow it's nearly irrelevant.

    There's many reasons why the rules of UO are so frequently ambiguous. One of them is poorly-stated rules, another is poorly-enforced rules, and those are both the various UO teams' faults. But the other reason is our fault. For some reason we sometimes like to pretend the rules are even more ambiguous than they are in actual fact.

    -Galen's player
     
    #18 GalenKnighthawke, Oct 16, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  19. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    If you think someone is actually multi-boxing, not just dual-clienting but scripting two clients to work in tandem, then page.

    But at Andros you can be pretty passive and still do well as long as nothing targets you or your "pet."

    -Galen's player
     
  20. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    With multiple screens and accounts I regularly run 3 clients, particularly for solo spawns or champs. Multi-clienting has been legal for a very long time. Successful play on multiple clients where you can see all your screens but only control one at a time takes a lot of practice... Otherwise you are most likely to end up in black and white. As far as Andros goes... If I take the time to train up two or three pets while you only train one I don't see any issues.
     
  21. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    I run up to 3 clients when I play because I have three accounts which I pay for. I've taken the time to train chars on every account to do different things to support my gaming. I have a nice comp which I am sure could handle another 3 clients if I felt the need, I also have another 2 comps in my room that I could run and my bandwith would have no issues running all of them.

    Buy more accounts if you feel this is a issue or run newb accounts for 15 days, it can't take that long to train a pet. Lets face the fact, you've paged over and over for what you feel is a violation when in all fact you state that it is not a issue. Join up, fund the game or move over. Lots of folks pay for more than one account, you can help EA also.
     
  22. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    on 3 screens you click on each screen in turn to make it the active window and execute the required action with that character. One window active at once. I only have 2 screens, but I've made suits with my tailor and imbuer standing side by side switching between them.
    What's not legal is when all 3 characters execute the same maneouver at the same time, in concert. That can not be done through legal means.
     
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  23. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Tooooo complicated for my simpleton self, I will just stick to one screen and one acct :D
     
  24. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    Given that Andros is an extremely long and boring fight, I have no problem with people getting two, three, four or how many accounts they have to the fight.
    I was there three times, endured 30 minutes of doing nothing but casting greater heal and decided that it wasn't worth my time.
    If they can endure that kind of boredom for so long, with more than one account running at the fight, more power to them.
     
  25. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    I commonly run dual client side by side on my wide screen monitor. I'll have an alchemist on one side making plant potions and hunt with another account on the other side of the screen. A Bard/Tamer combo works well for privateering merchant ships. I can see both clients with a slight overlap and can respond to either one with just a click on that client window so it's hardly unattended play. Given dual clienting is legal and I am viewing and able to respond to activity in either client, my gameplay is within the rules.
     
  26. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    It is many situations it is handy to have access to multiple accounts at the same time. And for thoose that do have that accesabillity, it is legal as long they are handling each screen without any 3rd party to perform actions for them. It can be all from running a t-hunter on one screen and a mage or tamer on other screen to kill the spawn. Or switch during making armor or wepons, or just for to move stuff from one char to another char.

    All thoose actions are legal, - they are not supported for system requirements and software garantee to work at the same time on same computer. But, if your system can handle it - they made it available. 2nd option is to use several computers, wich still conclude with its hard to move 2 mouses same time. So the normal player move one char a time.

    What is not legal, is the use of 3rd party programs to perform actions for you - or playing the other account like a bot or sandbox.

    I think that has been stated enough on thoose forums, and really dont see why the OP made this thread again. If it is that he dont have the option to run 2 accounts same time, it is his choice - either if it comes down to tecnuiqe, computer requirements or financially reasons. But for thoose that have that oppertunity, they also have the chance to do it - legal ways. But, as also stated before - it is limited what you can do with 2 clients on the same time and what you can fight.
     
  27. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    You readily admit that duel clienting legal... I'm not sure what you issue is other than you don't think it is fair?? The person who takes the time to train up additional pets put in more effort and thus has an increased chance for the drop. That actually seems fair to me. You complain that archers up on the ledge require less work to kill the boss while you must keep your pet alive because it is tanking... Yet if your pet is tanking the archers don't need the ledge. IMO that is the trade off to the archers being much harder to keep alive while you train them.

    In the end it sounds to me like you are complaining because someone else is doing the same boss as you, but doing it more effectively. By all means, load up those extra clients and jump on Andros.
     
  28. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Its not within the game rules to have your 2 pets on a ledge with ZERO chance of getting hit and attacking a boss, all the while you're on 2 accounts with ZERO risk of dieing.
     
  29. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    So your issue is not so much about duel clienting, but about people using the ledge with the archers? Unless I am wrong, regardless of the ledge, those archers are going to use a range attack anyway. Do you take issue when a tamer uses a GD to tank while archers or throwers stand back and fire away... They really don't have any risk.
     
  30. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    My Issue is with people running two accounts actively killing a champ with ZERO risk of dieing. ZERO risk! while 2 accounts are ACTIVLEY WORKING A CHAMP one in the background and one in the foreground. The account in the background is ACTIVE while the player focus is on the client in the foreground.



    If a client is AVTILEY run in the back ground you are not there while your account is performing some ACTIVITY without your direct input.


    AUTOMATING your account to kill a boss while your not ACTIVLEY watching what's going on is not within the sprit of the game. To argue other wise is just a sign of greed over fair play.
     
  31. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Again, as stated, if you think someone is using an illegal 3rd party program, page.

    Dual-clienting by itself is not illegal and Andros typically doesn't attack players, and players can't do damage to him.

    Those wisps can kill you if you aren't paying attention and if you get targeted.

    One of the most-effective tactics here on Stratics, and one of the most-damaging things to the game and its culture, has been to take innocuous things and make them seem non-innocuous. It makes it more-difficult to see the nefarious things when they happen.

    This sad thread is but one example among many.

    -Galen's player
     
  32. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    Personally I have 3 screens and can actively interact with any of my clients. There is nothing automated about it at all. I manually train three pets with three different characters. I walk them individually over to the boss. Once the boss fight begins I rotate through characters to discord the boss, then heal whatever pet is taking damage. The fact that the archers stand back and shoot is irrelevant to the number of clients I have open. It also works the same with any other pets... As long as you get the wisp and Andros attacking the same pet, the other pets don't have risk of dieing even if they are up close.

    Again I say that if I take the time to train 3 pets instead of 1 it is fair that I have an additional chance at a drop. The time/chance for a drop is still equal. Look at it this way... What if I spend 3x the amount of time training pets and you get the drop? I think it is perfectly within the game that for every trained pet there is a chance for a drop.
     
    #32 Merus, Oct 16, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  33. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Again let me state that when 2 archers are on the ledge there is ZERO risk to the archers nether Adnros or the wisp can get to them or the people that are up there. People are running 2 cleints while they have ZERO risk at dieing. I am more than sure you know what is being said here you just dont want to talk about it.
     
    #33 Winker, Oct 16, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  34. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Yeah lets keep it to the thread subject please. I too own 4 accounts and duel/multi client, but thats another thread, start your own if you want to discuse other way to duel client please
     
  35. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I do know what's being said.

    Someone, namely you, is trying to make something innocuous seem nefarious.

    This is a sadly effective tactic in the culture of UO players/Stratics posters. The effect is to make nefarious things later seem innocuous.

    When everyone can be accused of cheating in some way, then no one can be credibly accused of cheating.

    -Galen's player
     
  36. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    This is the topic you started.

    Nothing in your first post suggested anything, in any way, whatsoever, nefarious or in violation of the rules of the game.

    Per your own initial terms you have no case.

    So you change the terms.

    Seen this happen a lot on Stratics too.

    -Galen's player
     
  37. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    What would be the difference between using one account and standing there while others kill Andros to get a chance at an item? I have never seen Andros but if all characters there must do damage then people are not afk.

    I run two clients sometimes with both screens visible to me. But I am horrible at it. The wrong guy talks, ill take off running with one guy while wondering why the guy im looking at isnt moving, I push macros for the wrong guy, and many other uncoordinated things.
     
  38. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    I am also siding with the majority here..
    I have several accounts as well... if I set my laptop next to my big computer I can run five clients at once.

    I have trouble keeping track of two though. I've run three rarely with the third guy just being in a good spot to do resses.
    Using a program to run clients simultaniously is clearly a violation.. but switching between your own accounts and trying to play two(or more) people at once isn't.
    I loosely roleplay all my characters though and I find it hard to be two people at once..
    It is easier to log in my crafter and do repairs without having to log out my main character though.
     
  39. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    I started the thread, with the intent of finding out if working 2 clients at the Andors champ while one client was running in the background is legal. To further extend this topic is ok by talking about the use Archers on the ledge. Its loosely related. But to start going on about duel clienting that we all know is ok is just an attempt to derail the thread.

    I have no problem with people running the 2 clients if they stand on the Island. They then have to pay attention to both clients. But if they are standing on teh ledge at the end of the Island then they are doing so to let one client do the work while they pay no attention to it in the background.

    If the dev team wanted you to be able to solo this, then they would have made it so one pet can do it, with out any help. But its not been designed that way has it? No! Its been designed for a minimum of 2 people to work as a team.

    So you will see in my opening statement that i know good and well its ok to duel client in certain circumstances. But i don't think for a second the devs wanted you to Stand on a Ledge with ZERO risk of dieing.

    If they want to solo it with 2 archers then do it on the Island where the Boss and the wisp have a fair chance of killing/hurting you.
    Playing 2 archers on the Ledge is not in the sprit of the game, to argue otherwise is greed over fair play.
     
  40. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    Didn't mean to stray from the topic but I did..
    Back on topic though.. If you can run several clients then there shouldn't be any reason you can't do anything you want with your multiple characters.. setting one up on a ledge is no different than if you had a good friend on Vent doing the same thing.
     
  41. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    So your issue is with players using terrain to make it easier to duel client?

    I disagree with the idea that once the Andros fight has started it makes any difference where you stand. Andros does not switch targets on his own. Using your scenario, once Andros and the wisp have engaged client/pet A, it makes no difference were client/pet B stand... Andros isn't going after them.
     
    #41 Merus, Oct 16, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  42. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    To stand safe on the ledge doesnt only refer to dual clients - so I dont see why to bring that up regarding that? ANY player can stand at the ledge, but if they dont pay attention to their pets - and it dies, you are out of there!!! One other thing to consider, is that healing the pet that taking damage also give u a bigger chance for an artifact drop!

    Just standing at the edge alone let the pet fight, is not sure to give you even loot rights. So, basicly your thread there is based on nothing - and the topic is also wrong. It should be 'Is it legl to stand at the ledge fight the boss?'.
     
  43. SlobberKnocker

    SlobberKnocker Slightly Crazed

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    nothing to see here. constantly paging wastes the time of others who have legiitimate problems and concerns.just because you cannot do something doesnt mean someone else can, and legally so.
     
  44. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    I have no problem with people running the 2 clients if they stand on the Island. They then have to pay attention to both clients. But if they are standing on the ledge at the end of the Island then they are doing so to let one client do the work while they pay no attention to it in the background.

    Andors may target one pet and the wisp the other pet and yes they do change target. Its imposable for one person with 2 archers to do it on the island. But im willing to be taught if you are willing to show me how to do it. Using the terrain so that the monster has no way to get you is not in the sprit of the game and i do believe is illegal
     
    #44 Winker, Oct 16, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  45. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

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    Does anyone remember Ophidian Hill?
     
  46. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    If you're so kin that it shouldn't be that way, report that pets can shoot the boss from the ledge as a bug at the Bug tracking forum then.
     
  47. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

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    Character A is a sampire with and archer as a pet. Character B is a disco mystic with an archer as a pet. Sampire attacks first getting both the wisp and Andros targeted on him, attacks wisp second in order to leech life then sets pet to agro and it begins shooting. Character B comes on the island and discords wisp and Andros while casting cleansing wind on the sampire as needed. Even with 1 screen you could pretty easily duel client Andros on the island with two archers.
     
  48. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage
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    I think the majority are missing the point. While it may be legal to run two clients or more at once that does not mean the player doing so is in the clear. If they setup their players/pets in a position that could be considered an exploit then they are, obviously, not playing by the TOS. If they position the players/pets in a manner that is not considered an exploit they are only violating the TOS if they utilize 3rd party software (or hardware) to control more than one client at once.
     
  49. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    But you and i both know thats not whats going on down there!
     
  50. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Gorbs, the majority have a vested interest me thinks. They know whats being said and the choose not to directly talk about it
     
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