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Dull future?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Dodger, Nov 14, 2014.

  1. Dodger

    Dodger Certifiable
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    I play uo because I have a highly addictive streak in me.

    Recently I have lost that high I got from playing uo and I want it back, I am chasing the dragon.

    I have a few ideas to create more fun for myself but nothing that hits me as hard as wrestle, disarm, steal last target.

    Just looking for any new thieving strategies that work. Don't get me wrong I have infiltrated countless guilds just to kill or steal from asshats but I need some new flavor.

    I hammered the daily stealables for years, stole from ogres and their kin. Stole ps's at champs.
     
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  2. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    I miss the days of looting corpses...I think they even screwed that up on Siege.

    I have thinking about leaving thieving and joining the ranks of the detective. Take all of your thief knowledge and beat up the last remaining thieves...you know you and they would love it...la
     
  3. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Awesome.
    We need more players that obviously have no taste for a legit or honorable playstyle (pvp or pvm)
    Newsflash germ:
    Targeting other players and guilds to lie to them for admittance and then steal from them is not cool or RP. It is plain and simple immature griefing no matter what game mechanics allow.
    And please spare me the old school thief false history lessons. It was griefing back then and the devs correctly picked up on it and squashed it.
    *shakes head*

    You wanna chase the dragon?
    Meet a legit old school pvp mage on tc and duel him for 100 million gold in identical sorc suits on matching pure mage templates. That's exciting and a true test of skill.
    But you are a thief and skill is something you are not interested in ofc as it takes 0 skill to play even the most elaborate thief template lol.
     
  4. TheScoundrelRico

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    Your pants are on fire...la
     
  5. Lore Denin (GL)

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    I know thief that has had fun stealing sigils from the packs of other thieves in VvV. Real thieves would appreciate that, people who put stealing on a character to make silver probably don't.

    Not sure about all the dueling for billions of gold stuff but misrepresenting yourself so you can gain their trust and take things out of their house, etc is not being a thief - its being a RL piece of sh%$.

    -Lore's Player
     
  6. Dodger

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    Never really misrepresented I am a thief, people invite me into a guild I am going to steal, if people catch me stealing I am going to try and kill.
     
  7. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    Not to rain on your parade Dodger....but in case you had forgotten you snuck into my guild and HHYC and L*V about 5+ times pretending to be a new player who needed help so....that kind of was misrepresenting yourself. Although, it led to us being friends and was actually pretty fun trying to catch you, it still was misrepresenting yourself.
     
  8. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Lol.
    Piece of trash thief called out.
    Perfect
     
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  9. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    It must be a chilly day in Hades...

    For I agree completely with @Goldberg-Chessy.

    Manipulating people to gain their trust just so that you can rob them is sociopathic.
     
  10. TheScoundrelRico

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    Sounds like it might be time to visit Atlantic...you folks are way too touchy.

    Either that or you've had some nice stuff stolen from you...la
     
    Dodger likes this.
  11. Dodger

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    It was all about the fun, I used to guild noobs kill them and leave their junk in a trapped box on their corpse but after a few kills would throw them a mill, suit and boot them and try and help. Different people help in different ways.

    The majority thought it was fun.

    I brought down LV because the gl was a greedy pig that would dupe suckers into farming champs then she would raid the people she had suckered on reds and take it all. I made a crafting guild, recruited a few crafters, allied with a crafting guild allied to LV and killed and looted over sixty times in three days till I was caught. I am about the justice Norry.

    http://www.haneke.net/ do not click this please
     
    #11 Dodger, Nov 15, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2014
  12. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    Let's put it this way, my guild had a thief problem for 1 year (not Dodger, another thief) in that 1 year he robbed us and our alliance of over 5 billion gold total worth of stuff (only 100m of it was mine and I knew he was a thief when he took it, let him steal it just to see what his stealing style was and got the item back from killing him anyway). The sad part, is of all the alliances he robbed (3) we lost the least.

    That one thief caused over 100 players to quit the game from our alliance alone, most likely at least another 50 from the other alliances combined.

    So, one person, in one year, caused UO to lose about 150 customers.

    150 people times $15 a month, times 12 months a year = $27,000 per year that the one person caused EA and Broadsword to lose. Not even counting the other hundred or so guilds the same guy has robbed throughout the last decade.

    Keep in mind this is only one thief, on one shard, in one year. There are probably close to 50 total thieves and griefers on Atlantic, who have also caused lots of people to quit the game over the years.

    People ask why the game is dying, this is half the reason. The community is 50% good, 50% toxic backstabbers.
     
    #12 Captn Norrington, Nov 15, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2014
  13. Dodger

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    Norry was that Johnny Levene? He was my first gl on atl in the misfits, taught me a lot.

    He loved ****ing with whitefire I dunno why.

    I actually stepped in to stop him after some more serious stuff went down.

    People forget it is a game, everyone wants to have fun but my brand and your brand of fun are totally different. I always drop everything I own in haven everytime I quit to try and give to those that may benefit most.
     
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  14. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    Yep, it was Johnny Levene. Although he used multiple different characters to do it.

    He liked messing with Whitefire because when HHYC was first created Whitefire refused to make him an emissary no matter what he did to help the guild. So he kinda went pyscho crazy with revenge for like 3 years. He actually caused Whitefire to have a real life stroke, the last time he got into HHYC and kicked out like 300 members, Whitefire had a stroke in real life after realizing it.
     
  15. Dodger

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    Brother, I have been accused of being JL for years just through association.

    We have totally different play styles. People would see us together online and later come accuse me of some of his stuff. I dig the guy but we are super different, I was kicked from three of his guilds for not towing the line. Infiltrated his last one and massacred them stole all their junk then gave it back, pixels to me

    http://www.haneke.net/ do not click this please
     
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  16. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    Yep, I thought you were him for about a year, and Whitefire never stopped believing you were him. Most of HHYC still thinks you are him.
     
  17. Dodger

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    I made MY peace with white before he died.

    If JL didn't it's his loss.
     
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  18. Stickypaws

    Stickypaws Journeyman

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    Get stuffed!
     
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  19. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    ..... We can only try. Not 100% it's the same person, but what ever.. one Goldberg is as good as another.
     
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  20. Spock's Beard

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    People like you are a cancer on the game. UO needs a "disable guild stealing/pvp" toggle.
     
  21. Tomarke

    Tomarke Seasoned Veteran
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    Ok, so I feel I need to speak my mind again. This statement, calling someone a cancer, is pretty rude. I do not play a thief in game and for the most part I don't condone their activities but from what I've read in this thread these people have done nothing to break the rules of this game. The thief class was purposely put into this game for people to play for a reason. Some of the thieves tactics have evolved over the years and that is something we need to live with. These thieves have evolved their role-playing to include social engineering as a tactic and as far as I know this is not against the TOS, and is a tactic which utilized by millions of people worldwide everyday.

    I think that your attitude is a cancer to this game (notice I didn't say you yourself were a cancer, there is a difference). Your attitude toward these people playing the class of their choice within the bounds of the game mechanics and the TOS is a problem which leads heavy handed nerfing because you can't stand that someone has outsmarted you, was more persistent than you or just plain caught you with your guard down. If you don't like their play style then guard against it as best as you can and don't associate with them, but leave them alone and their class alone.

    I don't completely condone what they do but I will defend their right to do it right up until the official rules change (which I don't see happening anytime soon).
     
    #21 Tomarke, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  22. Tomarke

    Tomarke Seasoned Veteran
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    It's called social engineering and is a tactic used by governments, corporations and many other organizations around the world. It is becoming more and more prevalent in computer and data security settings as software and hardware security is becoming more and more complex; people with legitimate access to the information are easier to manipulate than trying to circumvent the built-in security systems.

    It's a con older than time, just a lot more complex and people are still vulnerable to it (and to my knowledge it does not break the TOS).
     
  23. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    In most other MMOs, these scams, cons and dupes, would be a bannable offense. EA however, just flat out doesn't give a ****.
     
  24. Flagg

    Flagg Sage

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    Hehe. Good luck finding them " most MMOs" where scams and cons would make a bannable offense. I promise you, it'll make one long search.
    Far as I know, Eve Online makes most successful sandbox MMO today. Devs/Publlisher of Eve have always taken great pride in elaborate, massive cons/scams community members pull. They often flaunt these scams as features when advertising the game. Like one year back or so, " Wana buy Eve? Look here!" - section of the official site provided listing and descriptions of biggest heists in Eve History. Entire community is kinda happy or proud of this stuff. "Just look at what can happen in our game : )" There is no " pickpocketing" skill in Eve; each and every one of the scams had nothing to do with some honest pvp action, all of it is always done by lies, misleading and social engineering. Does this mean the few million Eve Online players, devs and staff are all terrible people?Are they cancers too?


    If your character tricking, lying and cheating his/her way to in-game goodies of another character is " bannable offense", then imagine the sheer severity of the crime in..KILLING a character of another player:( I'm sure that'd be perma ban possibly paired with a call to FBI. Luckily we don't have that in UO!!

    Much in charm in video games comes from being and exploring something you aren't. Dragon slaying hero, mass murderer, captain of them high seas..Thief is no exception.

    I have never really had/played a thief in UO. Pickpocketer, scammer or otherwise. However, I remember well the days when they were a genuine hazzle, as opposed to rare peculiarity. I miss the depth and color it provided. You had constant feeling of having to..keep the hand on your wallet, so to speak. When out shopping at Western Brit in 2002, you felt like you had several different, very good reasons to really watch out. People would try luring you to Fel. People would try selling some dumb scam painting for huge amount of cash(I fell for this as a kid: D ) People would try to scam you with dice games, house trades. When you went shopping, you - really - had to watch out. And that is exactly how I - want - to feel in a busy market area of medieval fantasy world.

    I guess we all come with our own moral compasses for this. I pull a very strict line in toolkit at disposal. Thief pickpockets, loots, betrays or lies his way to goodies in-game, whilst abiding in-game mechanics in some hopefully clever way? Fair enough. Thief uses some 3rd party program or hacks or troians to steal either items or account info? Wrong. and like as not illegal by irl law actually.
     
    #24 Flagg, Nov 19, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
  25. Flagg

    Flagg Sage

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    double post
     
  26. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Cheaters, Scammers, Hackers, Dupers and yes Cretins who join a guild only to do such things to them are low life scum. They oft times think or have the idea that it's just pixels... well certainly to some folk it is just pixels. But to others the social structure of the game and the community they have worked to build is an ever important aspect of the game and building a reputation as a decent and trustworthy humanbeing and guildmaster is something some folk take a lot of pride in. And to have some Prlck take that away because they think that its cute, funny or fun... or whatever is not only evil and sadistic.... it's downright anti-social and like bullying in schools ought not be tolerated on any level. I don't care if it's part of the "game mechanics" or not. Truth of the matter is no one wants to be targeted for such harassment which is what it is plain and simple.

    Which if I interpret the ToS correctly which I believe I am.... it's Against the ToS to harrass another player... Against the ToS to disrupt another players gameplay or whatever... so joining a persons guild with the sole intention of ruining said guild and pillaging the players in it..... is HARASSMENT. It is the intentional misrepresentation of intention with the desire to destroy someones hard work and ruin their gameplay as well as their good reputation... HARASSMENT.

    Look it up.

    Anyway... The fact that they drive folk from the game should be enough to have some sort of counter measure for this tactic put into game. First off they ought to put into game a thing where if you try to guild someone who is polymorphed or incognito or wearing a disguise it shouldn't allow you to guild them.... or it should give you a message saying that "This person is not who they appear to be do you wish to continue?" And the guildleader can then chose whether or not they wish to go ahead and guild them or not. Perhaps they could make it so you can't join a guild while you are not in your "true" form.

    Secondly... I agree that there ought to be a toggle for Guildleaders that allows Guild vs Guild fighting or not. This could be toggled on or off by the guildmaster or high ranking guild members only. Like the Warlord of the guild but not an Emissary. And then when you join a guild it should say that "Guild warring is turned ON" and warn you if you want to join or not into a guild which does battle and stealing should not be allowed if warring isn't allowed. Also... if you log in and it's turned on at any time you should get a message saying "Prepare yourself you are now open to war from your guildmates." This way you could decide if you then want to leave the guild or not. So just in case you joined a guild thinking they don't fight or war you will know to leave. Changing the warring ought to have a 5 minute window before it takes effect.

    However any of those suggestions should fix the problem. Trouble is seeing if the DEV's would be willing to implement such a course of action and if they are if they can code it correctly without adding some other new bug. Like making it impossible to kill or hit someone in Fel... or some sillyness like that. The EC already has a toggle to keep you from "accidentally" targeting guildmates, pets and such.. would just be an extension of that I would think to to the guild settings.

    Anyway that's my thoughts.
     
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  27. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    I can not add my thoughts about the mentality of a player who actually believes that joining a Guild simply to grief is justifiable as words fail even me.
     
  28. RockoNV

    RockoNV Seasoned Veteran
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    Thieves, griefers and multiboxers will be in UO until the servers shut down for good.
     
  29. Flagg

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    I'm far more insulted by your language and your apparent need to get to call a fellow player cancer than his/her alleged thieving.

    His behavior is an attack against one's digital, invisible and imaginary possessions. All this carried out within the cage that game mechanics provide, no less.
    Your behavior makes direct, nasty and ugly attack against the real, actual person playing the game.


    Just how insulted or hurt I am on behalf of some dude I don't even know? Not very. ;p Still, this makes a pretty good case in point of how different our moral compasses can be.

    Before declaring who is the cancer, raging ******* or product of failed upbringing, I'd encourage you to check mirror out. You seem completely, utterly sure yours is the only valid moral compass. You seem sure those pointing anywhere put North on it are beyond any need of civil treatment. It is a mind set that enables great measures of evil in this world.


    I once heard of a father who played Monopoly with his daughter:( When his daughter ended up on some hotel infested square, he took all her money away:(:( All of it:( She put her daughter to bankruptcy:( Perhaps some of the resident in-game moral knights busy diagnosing IRL cancers for in game- actions could inform me where to report this? People like this shouldn't have children near them!! Who knows what happens when they play Magic The Gathering:( He may even summon demons on her:(:()
    :( :( :()
     
    #29 Flagg, Nov 19, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014
  30. TheScoundrelRico

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    Some of us guild hop for other reasons than killing newbies, but for the players that do...that's how they choose to play the game. They aren't cheating and they aren't causing any actual harm to the person on the other side of the screen. Your rant here is way too overboard.

    I have never been one that liked/approved of "persuasion" stealing, but there are some players that are very good at it, it shouldn't be stopped even if we disagree with that play-style. Have I stolen from guildmates of the guilds I've joined? Sure I have, but I have always used the stealing skill to do it. Have I looted items out of guildmates homes? Sure I have...but then again, I don't believe I ever did it to the extent that caused anyone to quit, and many times, the items were only a means to an end...to get a guild so upset at me, that they put me on their KOS list...la
     
  31. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    Some number of years ago a wise person gave me the advice to wear my flip flops in public bathing areas, I did not listen and got a real nasty rash on me feet.
     
  32. Tomarke

    Tomarke Seasoned Veteran
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    So I had the opportunity to scan Spock's reply this morning but I was in a hurry and didn't have time to respond at that time. It is gone now so I can't answer point for point but for the sake of full disclosure I stopped truly reading at the part which Flagg has quoted above because it was there I had realized he had completely failed to comprehend my point. I am not here to defend my point but to clarify.

    1) I don't agree with these players activities. I said this in my first post but I think that was overlooked. Defending a position does not mean I agree with it. For example, I defend everyone's right to free speech, this doesn't mean I agree with everything they have to say.

    2) I stated that calling someone a cancer was rude. This was in no way meant to cause a moral upheaval on these boards. It is my opinion that personally insulting a living, breathing person because of the manner in which they choose to play a R0le-Playing Game, which in no way violates its rules, was rude. They don't know this person and have no idea of who they are on the other side of that screen. (btw, this was the entire point of my original post but I think it got lost as I rambled on.)

    3) ***Disclaimer: this is purely my opinion and is based on how I have experienced the game and I am in no way attempting to make any historical or factual assertions. It also contains broad generalizations for the sake of the point, please don't take them personally ( I don't know if I could handle hurting someone's feelings...again (sarcasm)).**** I also stated that I think that his attitude was detrimental to the game but I used his "word" against him. The word wasn't pointed at him personally but at the attitude which he was displaying. I stated this because of the way I have seen this game evolve over time. In the beginning... ( I always wanted to use that one ) bands of murders and thieves roamed our lands, let's call them Group A. They searched for prey, lets call them Group B. Group B is a social construct, founded on teamwork and community and is something to be admired. They lived in relative safety inside the confines of the cities and their personal houses, if they were lucky enough to have one back then. They formed guilds and worked cooperatively to advance in a game which was relatively dangerous for their digital alter-egos. They would continually fall prey to Group A through various forms of institutionalized murder, mostly ambushes or overwhelming force as far as I can remember. Group B was very unhappy that Group A refused to play the game in a fashion with which they approved and felt it was making things to too hard and called for change. And change they received. Trammel was born and the land of Felucca (sp?) was deserted as everyone escaped for safer pastures. This left the hunters with little prey so they had two choices: 1) click the cancel button on the accounts management page or 2) find new and more clever ways to hunt. Mostly, they took the first choice as by this point other games were starting to hit the market and they searched for new prey. Some stuck around and chose path two, we are seeing the remnants here. For a time, things went well. The new and safer lands brought even more subscriptions and the land was overpopulated to the point that even more land had to be added. However these people soon started leaving for brighter pastures as newer, shinier games were released and the lands ended up being sparsely inhabited by the remaining few. And now the developers are trying their damndest to get people back into Fel, i.e. factions, VvV, etc.. This gives the pvp'rs, murders and thieves activities to engage in since the earlier calls for change ripped their outlets from them.

    So what's my point? Do games need to evolve over time? Absolutely. Do they need to evolve strictly because one group doesn't like how another group is playing? This is where the attitude which was displayed in this thread starts getting dangerous. This attitude is highly exclusionary. As I outlined above, it excludes one set of players in favor of another. That being said, this game is the property of a company and they have every right to change it as they see fit, and they make the rules which are subject to change at a moment's notice. If they choose to follow the path of exclusion then the only paths we have available to us are to either accept it and adapt or hit that cancel button. If the company does choose to change the rules to make these actions "illegal" and these players choose to continue on that newly "illegal" path then I will condemn them right along with the everyone else.

    ****However, I believe that this attitude of exclusionism ( is that a word? ) has done more damage to this game and its population than all of the random acts of infiltration, thievery and murder combined.****( this is more the point of this post )

    Again, for the sake of full disclosure, I am a Trammie and proud of it. I venture into Fel to gather resources and hunt in the occasional dungeon but for the most part I enjoy my safe digital life. I have a guild with which I take steps to ensure that the things outlined above don't happen. I vet players who want to join and nobody gets unfettered access to guild assets unless I know them personally. So far we have been fairly successful -- which means we have fun. At the end of the day it's all about having fun. But you can still have fun while guarding against the more unsavory characters in life. I'm pretty sure you all lock your door at night.

    Also, as a postscript, the tactics described above are the very definition of social engineering. I have completed several decades worth of classes as well as countless briefings on the subjects of operations security and information security. It's not a new thing and hinting that I am ignorant of the subject just because someone typed two words into a google search is...well...