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[Discussion] Dupe Vendors On Atlantic and Proposal

Discussion in 'UO Rares Collector' started by A Stoned Mariner, Jul 20, 2008.

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  1. Ok I assume everyone who is a regular hear is well aware by now of the dupe vendors on Atlantic right now inside Luna City. I have a proposal for the Rares Council. Not sure if this is the way to go about proposing it, but figured feedback in this thread would pave the way for the proper process to begin.

    These vendors (there are 2 at this particular location) are dupe vendors. This is fact for everyone to believe. (Everyone here with any knowledge of rares, and even a small amount of common sense at the very least). These vendors are regularly being stocked with server births and EM items. Many of which absolutly never existed in the quantity this very vendor is selling.

    To my proposal...

    Its been attempted numerous times over to make a "duped item list". Some call it pointless as logic says anything, absolutly any rare item (with exception only of uniques, known to be held by people who are hopefully not involved with duping) could/very well has been duped.

    With that being said. It seems like only 1 logical solution, which many people are probably not going to like. These items on the vendors in Luna on Atlantic. Absolutly known to be sold by dupers, are no longer rare. It's sad, I've been collecting for 8 years, my entire UO run. But if its known to be duped, then I propose it is no longer rare. That said, these items can not be posted on the forum. And to buy/sell/trade in these items here is prohibited here.

    Again I realize this sounds horrible to anyone who possesses these "ruined rares". But what else can be done. If they are no longer desirable, if we deem them duped and worthless, nobody from this community buys them. They in turn become worthless to the duper, and they stop profiting from ruining the rares trade.

    I have observed these dupe vendors in recent days as they've put up some newer items I had yet to see them sell in the past weeks. (ex. 2 story statue, moulding board, I stole this robe, Kettle of Caramel, etc, etc, etc). Most of these new big ticket items are not selling. My belief as to why they are not....because we (people who collect and are normally willing to blow 100mil on a useless item to most people in the game, purely because of our love of the hobby) are not buying them. Normal players have no interest. So in the spirit of the rares council and this forum I restate the purpose of this post below.

    1. Start with these dupe vendors on Atlantic we know. Take list of every single rare item they have stocked. Assume them for duped and therefore a risk to buy, worthless in value. Begin assembling a dupe list (take votes or something to get an item put on the list. again obviously in this case, every single item from these vendors should go right on the list). And then ban the trade of these items here.

    Again this kills people who own these items legit, but to protect everyone, this seems like a good measure to take. Some people will still want to collect these items. Id love to own a moulding board even though its been duped. But not for 100mil . Kill the market for dupes, drive the prices down to dirt, and if people wanna buy for fun, for personal collection, all good. But not on this board. Not for large sums of gold. Not for values far exceeding these duped items actual worth since a once 1 of a kind item could now number 100s.

    Lengthy read. Rant more accurate description. But I had to write it down. Reply some feedback. See where it goes from here.


    Thanks again for the read...

    A Stoned Mariner W$R Atlantic
     
  2. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    This whole post just violates the stratics policy. please remove it immediately.
     
  3. I'll entertain that reply by asking how it violates TOS. I mention no names. Only a house name, which I will gladly remove and just state the location if that clears up the TOS violation. Please, enlighten me. I wont act as if Ive read the TOS, so you could very well be all in the right here, and myself in the wrong.

    Do tell.....

    Seems real real odd that someone would make a just blanket, delete the thread reply with no explanation. If you are a legit rares collector here. Then you'd certainly give input on the topic which is very interesting. Whether you agree with it or not, thats for each person to decide. I am real suspect of a person who flat out says delete the thread. Makes me real suspicious of said person.
     
  4. I just took a look for the first time (I know Im late) and wow... looks like candy land for a duping extravaganza
     
  5. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    it's highly suspect at best but it's not like the vendors that were elsewhere. If you suspect it, report it to a gm. this is simply not the place for it.
     
  6. of The Ring

    of The Ring Guest

    As a big time buyer of rares items, i really feel that EA should do something regarding this. I suppose a lot of rare collectors know that i had bought Nail's collection.

    And recently, i had also heard a rumor that some peeps were trying to frame me again by saying i will be duping those items.

    I hope this will not go on.

    Because the fact is, I AM A GENUINE COLLECTOR !!!

    And definitely, all the collectors will hope those duped items will be erased on day to regain the rares status and value.
     
  7. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    that robe that is labeled I stole this robe is origonally pink not that puke green, I can show anyone what the robe looks like, and that is teh exact reason i am hesitant about selling any of the labeled I stole this *insert item here* to anyone
     
  8. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    I unequivocally agree with you, I did try to fight this battle, and unfortunately last time I was flamed out of the topic.

    I would hope the mindset has changed since then, and I wish you the best of luck.

    Also, this is not against the RoC, good try though. :thumbsup:
     
  9. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    The poster harassed me for investigating the vendor he mentioned on the basis that I said, it was highly suspect but not proven. He can bring his posts in line with the tos or they should be closed just like the rest of ours.
     
  10. I redirect all conversation here back to the proposal of the original post. Nobody tryin to flame anyone. If it violates TOS, then fine, it will be dealt with by the Mods. But otherwise.....TO THE TOPIC AT HAND...Discuss!!!!!!
     
  11. And just to strengthen the legitimacy of my claims here and proposal. I'll throw the first item on the list .


    "Pirate Boots".

    I bought a pair in auction here months ago for 155mil. I saw a pair on a vendor recently for 100. Bought them up thinkin I could resell. Found out literally a day later about hte most recent dupe. I have since seen 2-3 more pirate boots on the same vendor in the past week...

    So my "rare" pirate boots. Which I spent a combined 250mil on recently. Worthless. Duped. DO NOT BUY for any serious amount of gold. They are probably numbered in the dozens if not more now. Since they were highly desirable and expensive prior to the dupe. So anyone who doesnt like the idea of losing value and killing their precious rares.

    I offer up mine first here to prove that examples need to be set. People need to face facts, and cut their loses here for the betterment of the rares community. To prevent future lose, stop the bleeding if you will.
     
  12. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    can you show us your 2 sets of boots in a screen shot side by side?
     
  13. If someone cares to take the screen shot be my guest. Both pairs locked down on my plot as we speak. I live on Trammel side, Trinsic Island, just next to the city, over a bridge. Top end of the long long island, only house north along the road.

    Atlantic Shard...by the way.
     
  14. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    I'm just saying, it goes a very very long way towards giving your claims credibility....
     
  15. As the reply says. Items are in the open and viewable, not hiding anything or making false claims here. I basically made my 250mil investment worthless. Which I am completely ok with, for the sake of moving this proposal along.
     
  16. Alcestis

    Alcestis Seasoned Veteran
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    Hey Mariner,

    I as well am one of those who is losing out on a lot of cash on these new ones and a lot of pride as well.
    However, we as rares council, cannot force rules uppon the stratic boards. This is not "ours".

    The only thing we can do is make suggestions - as long as we stay on stratics or make your 'rules' count only for Rares Council Members.

    We need our own forums tbh :p

    Anyway, I would like to ICQ you about... some form of protest.
    Could you contact me on 38970131 ?

    Thx a bunch.
     
  17. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    stoned, you do realize the burden of proof is on you to establish the credibility of your claims right?

    Not everyone is going to check that vendor as I did. However, if you can give us something of substance(both pairs of boots on screen) to see, it should be enough for most folks not to shop at those vendors.
     
  18. Very true and good point. So certainly making it a forum rule is not possible. Now that I see my wording it's def misleading. It would infact as you say. Have to be the members of the Council that choose to participate in the boycott/banning of trade in specific items/rule making. So if you wanna be in the council, then you'd have to live by their rules. We within the council (which consists of tons of familiar names here naturally) put it to a vote and if you dont abide by the rules voted on, assuming it passed. Then you're out of the council.
     
  19. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Don't get me wrong, I'd be quick to lynch a duper too but I've seen many of my fellow idoc hunters wrongly accused of all sorts of behavior for providing a service to you collectors. Most idoccers don't have major collections, we sell our best pieces to collectors, but we do maintain our own smaller collections.

    It's often that an idoc hunter takes a hiatus or needs to make some quick cash and pours what may seem like an outrageous amount into the economy instead of the usual controlled flow. My guildy added so many powerscrolls into the pacific economy that the price of the 120 melee skills dropped by over 1-2million each for like 4 months and people accused him of cheating. It was problematic for him as spawn guilds tried to impeach the reputation of a reputable player because their income was cut.

    This isn't the best example but I think we've all seen at least 1 case of people accusing others for spite or wrongly accusing them altogether by mistake.

    Many folks would rather err on the side of caution as a result.
     
  21. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    thats pretty damning evidence. get all the folks you know on your shard to page on him.

    As far as I know there should only be a few pirate boots of that nature across all the shards.
     
  22. Glad I could provide some tangible evidence of oddly common so called "rare items" now. From my very own experiences no less.
     
  23. feath

    feath Guest

    If word of mouth is working, (the vendor items are not selling), why put yourself in a position where you might get charged with harassment?

    monitoring his vendor to see what items are for sale is brilliant. You "know" they are dupes. List them. Advise collectors that these items are 99% likely to be duped. use his vendors like a divining rod, to see what is getting duped.

    Anything more than that - any plan to get a lynch mob together - boycotts - secret plans to 'get them' - to me, it's total mob mentality. I know I'll be in the minority here. Dupers are bad. They deserve anything they get. They are not one of us. They are breaking the law of the land.

    But the law is not just there for the good guys. its there for everyone. Dont go beyond it in your zeal to tear someone down. even a bad guy.
     
  24. Your post kind of points to exactly what I am asking. Identify dupe vendors, such as this particular one. Label anything you see on them as highly likely to be ruined/duped.

    I make no reference in any of these posts to a person particularly. I am not out to get an individual. As my plan asks the rares community to make sacrifices to flush out all dupers, and destroy their business by making their ill-gotten duped items worthless.
     
  25. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    I sent an ICQ to the mall owner to let him know. In the end it is his mall and he can do what he likes but now at least he cannot claim he did not know. Hopefully he will do the right thing.

    The absurdity of those vendors have gotten worse since the last time I checked em few weeks ago :)
     
  26. Alcestis

    Alcestis Seasoned Veteran
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    Hey everybody!

    A little update. This morning, a fair few of us gathered at the Luna shop on Atlantic and did some talking.
    I paged on these vendors and... this is the shocking part: after just 15 minutes a gm actually appeared!!!!

    What was even better: we had a real conversation :)

    The gm asked me to clearly identify the vendors.
    Then to list the items on the vendors that i suspected to be duped.
    Then asked me to give any stories or info backing this up.
    Now i was pleasantly surprised by this question! It almost felt like he/she was really taking an interest, writing down the information to put in some big file or something ;) (Yes, i watch CSI too often).
    I gave the example of the blackrock jewelry that was publicly bought by the vendor owner on these forums at a much higher price than he is selling them at now.
    I told them about the vendor on Lake Superior with the SAME items for sale.
    I told them about the ICQ logs we have of the vendorowner admitting he works with dupers and in which he gives details to how exactly the splitting of the profit works.

    Now what i told the GM was all I personally knew. But i'm sure many of you have stories about the other rares.

    So i ask you: PLEASE do page! Do tell your stories!

    Everybody has different pieces of the puzzle, lets just put them all together!
     
  27. NewThunder

    NewThunder Guest

    Now you are on to something. Taking away his easy method of selling the items. If we all ICQ the owner perhaps he will feel the 400k in rent he receives is not worth the headache and shame.
     
  28. simonovsk

    simonovsk Lore Master
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    It seems to me that quite a lot of the efforts put together by the members of the rares council, will eventualy turn into asking for traceability.

    I mean we are pretty much confronted to the same problem with rares and highly collectible items as we are with food and wine nowadays. Some people with an immoderate taste for profit are abusing both systems.

    What is being put in place in the RL to counter those practices is called "traceability". While certainly very much structured in RL, it can be made simpler IG, and mainly consist in people recording facts.

    I understand those boards are not a place where this could be implemented, but once a list of recently duped items is compiled, it could be a good way of keeping track of the still valuable ones, and help people feel more secure when buying.

    Knowing where the goods come from, and what has been their trading history in the past, would both keep the items and the players free of suspicions, at least to a tolerable level. Uh?
     
  29. feath

    feath Guest

    if i were in his shoes, i would have removed that vendor ages ago. moved to a different location, dressed it different, named it different, put my 'rares' up mixed in normal stuff, and been totally invisible again. he's playing stupid, which only helps you.
     
  30. The Scandinavian

    The Scandinavian Certifiable
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    Hi there A Stoned Mariner,

    Im behind you all the way.
    I started a thread about what Rares Council could do about this a few days ago.We cant force people to follow rules that are not against stratics rules.

    But we really should try to put up a list of items that is a no no for people in the Rares Council.

    If we dont do this rather fast Im afraid that the end of collectors is near.

    :mad:



    Regards
    The Scandinavian
     
  31. Cysphruo

    Cysphruo Guest

    the house on atlantic was one of the many houses/accounts banned for having dupes back during the last big ban, after the houses fell they bought them back and started over again, how is anyone surprised there are dupes there?
     
  32. Google the name on the house sign DavidAllanHrushka1973 and you'll see that he's got a history of scamming going back to 2004 when he was selling people Gi Joes on Ebay....I don't think the house owner is very legit either.
     
  33. Inspector

    Inspector Guest

    I can see being mad about the duping of the true rares or whatever but it seems that this last wave of dupes was all high end hammer bod's and I'll probably get flamed for this but I cannot see why you guys are crying about it, it has made high end gear cheaper(that makes it easier for the newer or returning players to gear up, but I'm sure you all don't care about that) I'm sure most of you don't run bod's enough to get a val hammer and even if you do, the prices will jump right back up when this wave of dupes or whatever they are are all sold out. Honestly who cares, nothing is rare anymore and most of these "so called collectors" have something to do with all this duping, and what I mean by that is if the owner of whatever item was really a collector they wouldn't part with said item no matter what the price the duper offered them, so they probably got let in on the dupe and duped all their crap too.......
     
  34. Alcestis

    Alcestis Seasoned Veteran
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    Oh goodie, wonder who this allknowing, omnipotent incognito boy is :bowdown:
     
  35. So just to provide some more serious evidence to implicate these vendors on Atlantic as dupe sellers for some of the skeptics.

    Recently there was a "Kettle of Caramel" on said vendor. Priced at 75million. It had since disappeared in recent days (presumably sold). Now days later, another "Kettle of Caramel" is again for sale on the same vendor. Currently priced at 100million. One could use reasonable intelligence and say these have to be 2 different "Kettles". Because how many times have you priced an item, had it not sell for a week. Taken it off only to raise the price 25mil. Suspect, very.


    A Stoned Mariner...W$R...Atlantic
     
  36. Goliath

    Goliath Guest

    They also have anotjher pair of pirate boots up for sale
     
  37. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    Aye, I noticed that earlier. Seems like they are rubbing it in our faces.
     
  38. Wait...wait...wait. I'm gonna put the leash back on all of us in this post cause it looks like I've gone and created a problem.

    We are all just a wee bit paranoid. I mean these concentrated quantities of uber rare items could just be a coincidence. They could just be a closet collector or unknown expert rares dealer selling off his stock.

    Its perfectly logical to think someone could of gathered a half dozen Pirate Boots, Navy Boots, at least 2 Kettles of Caramel. About a dozen spittons and playing cards. A few two-story statues and large wall-blood splatters. A few "ancient golden septers", and a ton of other really rare items.

    And its even more logical to think that if a person collected all these items. That maybe they have gotten bored. And this explains why their prices are literally 50-100-200% lower than the value of these items were worth a month or two ago, right???

    Maybe some of the skeptics are right, we've all gone X-Files here. Paranoia running ramped and its my fault. My apologies.


    A Stoned Mariner...W$R...Atlantic
     
  39. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    Yeah.. the multiple active dupe bugs couldn't POSSIBLY have anything to do with it. It HAS to be ace collectors able to amass a group of multiples of Mmany hard to get objects in a way nobody has before.
     
  40. yanaki2

    yanaki2 Sage
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    so umm i bought a singing ball and a wash basin off of a vender in atlantic does that mean i bought duped items?
     
  41. kray2s

    kray2s Guest

    i gonna play the devils advocate here - not because its wat i believe but just to see the "other side" if there is one!!!! lol

    (Stirs the pot a little)

    it seems we all are picking on a certain vendor / vendor owner and whilst most if not all the arguments seem logical maybe this guy is just sellinghis rares off??

    I wouldnt put the rare on a vendor see it hasnt sold and then raise it by 25 or 30 mill but then "ITS NOT MINE TO SELL" and "EVERYBODY IS DIFFERENT" - Just because i as a sane individual wouldnt do it, who am i to speak for him?? (or her i not sexist)

    And as for these damn pirate boots i keep seeing mentioned - Yes chances are he is rubbing faces in it - BUT have you any information as to HOW MANY PAIRS THERE WERE??????? ffs if there were 100 pairs and he managed to get 5 or so would that be so hard to believe!!!

    So far all i an see in these posts are HEARSAY. And even though the side of the argument that is generally being put forward here is, to be blunt, making him look very suspicious, who are we to condem this person untill they have their say!! (OK SO THE CHANCES OF HIM ADMITTING IT WOULD BE VERY SLIM).

    Just so many people here seem to want to act as judge, jury and executioner - YES i agree it suspicious - YES i agree chances of 1 person having all these multiple rares seems strange - YES i agree his manner of pricing is not far off being moronic ..............

    HOWEVER..... GIVE ME PROOF 100% hard core - NO POSSIBLE WAY THEY CAN GET OUT OF IT .......................PROOF!

    i believe the phrase runs along the lines of ....


    "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY"
     
  42. kray2s

    kray2s Guest


    Would also like to point out and ask was this really needed??? just because his / her views were not shared by you?!!?
     
  43. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    There is truly no way to tell for sure, however unlike real life, this is a game, and there is no way for players to tell if an item is duped, unlike the forensics we have in the real world to tell if something is counterfeit or forged. Since we have to abide by these limitations, we can only use common sense to make a very good assumption.

    Is the flying spaghetti monster fake? Do we have any proof? No we don't, but we have a fairly good idea that he doesn't exist (most of us anyways ;) ).

    In games where we lack the proper tools to fight cheaters, we have to rely on our brains to make a logical assumption, and in this case, due to what we do know, that there is an active dupe, and that that particular vendor has some very incriminating evidence against them posted in other places, we need to use common sense to point towards the most likely conclusion.

    There's not much else to do besides turn a blind eye, and doing that will let all of the cheaters, dupers, and hackers take advantage of UO and its playerbase at every turn.
     
  44. kray2s

    kray2s Guest

    Ty for the reply and please dont get me wrong....

    i was merely trying to point out that there is always 2 sides to every argument / story and also that just because it is something you or I wouldn't do, you cant judge everybody in the same way!

    So, even though it looks like he or she is heavily duping , there is a chance , no matter how slim, that there is a perfectly logical and reasonable explaination!

    He or she may not even know we are discussing him or her here, it would be nice (although they wouldnt admit duping etc) to hear what they have to say
     
  45. kray2s

    kray2s Guest

    i realise that 3 posts in a row may seem extreme but theres a thought that has been running in my mind for a while now so i think its time i release it for general airing :)

    Dupers dupe mainly because of the monetary value of the items - i dont think you will ever get rid of dupers until you hit them where it hurts!!

    I know this may sound like a silly idea -but in my opinion untill people stop paying r/l money for items and or in game gold there is always going to be dupes as there is profit to be made by those in the know of how to do it!

    Also i realise that the case in point on this post, the duper is making in game gold - but whats he or she going to do with that gold?? my guess is they are going to sell it on for real money whilst on a break from duping the next lot of gold generating items so they can get more in game gold to sell on for more real life money!

    Yes i have paid realcash for gold before and hence i starting to regret it now but the 10 quid i spend is nothing compared to some people!

    However , we all have to be held accountable for our own actions!

    As i say its just a thought
     
  46. Pickaxe Pete

    Pickaxe Pete Lore Master
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    He or she is not allowed to post on Stratics forums per Moderator's decision. No, I don't know why. Just stating the facts at present.
     
  47. Ryna

    Ryna Sage
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    A posts was removed by me, from this thread.

    Please carry on.
     
  48. Alcestis

    Alcestis Seasoned Veteran
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    @ Krays2:

    The comment was in reply to a post made by the guy who owns the vendors on a fake account.
    His original post was removed, but apparently the mod didn't think of removing my reaction to it.

    There ya go. :next:
     
  49. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    Locking this thread. There is not much more that can be talked about this topic anymore.

    For people who are asking for 100% proof, please PM me what exactly would constitute as 100% proof? Is there such a thing? I can't really think of anything that can count as 100% proof universally.
     
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