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Duped gold (checks) going poof ?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Aug 17, 2015.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I have read the (incomplete) transcript about duped gold/checks being deleted.

    While I applaude the move towards those who actually themselves duped gold/checks, the one issue I have with it is for all those players who, innocently and unawaringly got to be given duped gold/checks, perhaps when selling items and things.

    Let's say they spent hours, days, weeks of their playing time to hunt for an item, sold that item, legittimately obtained through game play investing their time for, say, 50 millions checks and were given, without them knowing it, duped checks.

    When the checks will be deleted, they will be left totally empty handed while the duper still gets to keep the item they got in exchanged for THEIR duped checks....

    So, the good players get punished while the bad players get the spoils of their ill-doing....

    Mesanna, how fair is this if I may ask ??
     
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  2. Lord Arm

    Lord Arm Seasoned Veteran

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    I only use a vender, that way its much harder to get abused. if someone doesn't want to use vender, could be a red flag. I would gladly take a loss if they would really go after the dupers. do these gold/item selling sites dupe daily? I would like to see a system where everyone is warned to use vender, any duped item gets deleted and stays this way. once everyone knows they will be deleted, they wont buy these illegal items. but people need the info. on patch page ,not everyone uses uostratics .not sure how they will stop the gold dupers. ill have to see if the account bound gold system helps. maybe they will need to remove all gold checks from the game? if they fix things, some people may get screwed, ,but could be better for the game in the long run. What about all the bugged and exploited items that continue to appear in game where some make a lot of money off it. warn, delete, no one will buy. I would like to see a warning forum on patch page where I can go to see a list of items that will be deleted, not to buy. also maybe we can let gms know of new, odd, exploited items before people buy. people need information so they wont get screwed. I remember there was the mythic token deletion awhile back. I seen a mythic token on a vender for 10 mil. thinking he/she missed a zero, and duped items cant be placed on venders, I bought one lol. but there was another one there so I stopped. as I continued stopping I see other venders with them for 10 mil, so I know something was wrong. but the issue is, even after the dev knew about it, the venders were left up and many, many, people got hosed lol. not sure but heard this was an exploit/mistake from the store. think they only catch the big dumbs dupers, every 6 month/year or so lol. i just have no clue why/how these things can/still happen with this game i love/loved. hope they fix. these are just my opinions and means nothing.
     
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  3. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
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    I will be laundering all my cheques through a vendor before the expansion. Just to be safe.
     
  4. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Making assumptions and then asking someone to answer to them is ... well its just ludicrous. Especially when you add in, as others have said, the fact that you can just put your money on a vendor.
     
  5. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    I wash all my dirty currency through vendors first. *evil laugh*
     
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  6. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    I wash all my vendors with dirty money Booyah!
     
    #6 Longtooths, Aug 17, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2015
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  7. popps

    popps Always Present
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    So, chances are, that all or most of those who have duped the gold/checks and thus "know" that that gold/checks are duped, will have already "cleaned" it by using a vendor.

    Now, should the above be correct, who will the deletion of duped gold/check hit the most ?

    Those who have no idea whatsoever that gold or checks that they might have was duped in the first place. They just received it over the years through trades, selling rare items, houses, stuff like that.

    Besides, I do not understand how using a vendor would "cleanse" duped gold/checks "if", as soon as one puts the gold and checks in the bank "if" they are duped, they get deleted right away.........

    I mean, vendors only take gold/checks that are in one's own bank but putting it in one's own bank in order to let a vendor take it would get it automatically deleted "if" it is duped. So, I am not sure why there is people talking about using vendors at all.....
     
  8. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
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    It'll be done before the expansion hits Popps. Then, once on the vendor, it's clean ready for the new system.

    As a way of dealing with it, I don't think it's great. I'm the only person in my guild that follows stratics. And Stratics is the only reason I know this is happening and know to launder my gold just incase. I've done nothing wrong, but may be punished regardless? And yet the actual gold duper will also be fully aware of this and will take the same precautions I'm going too. Leaving the only victims, by and large, your standard players.
     
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  9. Angel of Sonoma

    Angel of Sonoma Certifiable
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    for small amounts, all you need to do is put the check in your bank box, convert it to gold, then ask for a new check. i seriously doubt there are duped checks out there. a duper with 1/2 a brain would "launder" their dirty money turning it into legitimate currency.
     
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  10. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    If a check can be duped then other higher value items can be duped (and have been duped). Why dupe 1m gold checks when you could dupe something like a mythic token/transfer token/slither etc. which commands a much, much higher price.

    OK it might get tagged as "non vendorable" but thats not really a problem, just sell it cheaper. You see people in general chat all the time "selling non vendorable XYZ" and nobody even bats an eyelid. Buyer puts checks in a bag, trades the item and job done.
     
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  11. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
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    Perhaps. There is a strong logic behind that. But there must be some reason they're bothering with the cheques to justify the time spent on that part of the new code.
     
  12. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Plus there is a way to make transfer and mythic tokens vendor-able again.
     
  13. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Ok, let me explain for you. A gold check has a item ID. When you put it in your bank and convert it to gold that id is gone. Make it back into a check and a new id is given. The same is true with putting it on your vendor and by this I mean pricing a bod in a bod book on your vendor and then buying it. The check is gone and the money is on your vendor as a number. Deposit that gold in your bank, new checks new ids...
     
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  14. Herman

    Herman Seasoned Veteran
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    Gold is the end product and why do they have to dupe only 1 check at a at a time ?
    I donno how to dupe but maybe they can dupe a full container with checks or theire BP

    If you dupe items you still have to sell them and if you sell ex 100 slithers people are going to take notice

    So less risk involved when duping checks and could be just as fast to get rich because you do not have to rely on other players (could take a very long time to sell all the duped stuff)

    That is my guess
     
    #14 Herman, Aug 17, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2015
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  15. Herman

    Herman Seasoned Veteran
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    I do not think the new number is a random number it is probably a calculation following some basic rules

    Should be easy enough to backtrack to get the original ID

    Or so I thought
    They did not get the last anti duping thing to work so it have to be some problems I have very little hope they can get it to work with gold
    The good thing is that it could put an end to more duping of checks
     
  16. Spock's Beard

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    Uh, no. Once you cash a check there's no item to even attach an ID number to. I mean what are you going to "backtrack" this number from? Seventeen different piles of 60k gold coins each? One big pile of gold sitting on a vendor, made from a hundred different checks?
     
  17. Herman

    Herman Seasoned Veteran
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    Every item in game have to have a number
     
  18. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    They do, but those ID numbers change when an item, be it gold or resources, is turned into a check/deed. The ID numbers change again when the check/deed is changed back into a 'physical' item, or when a check is spend or the amount changes.

    It is unlikely that the servers track those changes; or if they do, its unlikely to be tracked past 2 changes - as this could quickly bloat the already unwieldy database.

    Since we also know the current "dupe detection system" sucks, as evidenced by the plethora of false positives after shard xfers, some trepidation is warranted.
     
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  19. Herman

    Herman Seasoned Veteran
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    I Agree that is most likely the problem
     
  20. Hazel868789

    Hazel868789 Adventurer

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    So, must be time to dig thru the rubbish and empty half the contents of my houses to be safe?? WTF !!
     
  21. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I feel like a number! I'm not a number!

    Bob Segar Sometime in the 70s.
     
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  22. Victim of Siege

    Victim of Siege Crazed Zealot
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  23. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    That video has a lot of appropriate levels... :party:
     
    #23 kelmo, Aug 17, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
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  24. popps

    popps Always Present
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    There's one other thing I do not understand....

    When the the new global gold per account/shard comes, and there will no longer be checks, how will it be possible to transfer funds from one shard to another ?

    I mean, the general in-game gold one has will be limited to that of all characters on that account and that shard.
    Say that one of those characters transfers to another shard and X amount of in game gold is wanted to take over to another shard, how will this be done if there will no longer be checks ?
     
  25. Piotr

    Piotr Stratic's Finest
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    Don't worry, you will be able to transfer gold to another shard within the new system. :smile2:
     
  26. SugarMMM

    SugarMMM Journeyman
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    OK another question.

    How do/will I be able to transfer gold from Character A on Account 1 to Character A on Account 2?

    I was thinking about this the other day and I think the only way I came up with would be to have a vendor for each account. Then Character A on Account 1 buys something off the vendor owned by Character A on Account 2. Think that would work?
     
  27. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
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    Load two clients, log both accounts, open a trade window and transfer the required gold is how I'd do it.
     
  28. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Babbling Loonie

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    That would work. We should be able to do anything we do now. I usually just run 2 accounts at the same time and hand the money to my other accounts. I'm not following this real close but if the money is account bound, I'm wondering if I'm on Great Lakes I would have access to all the gold that's also on say Legends with the same account. Like that account has one big lump of gold no matter which character or where he is as long as it's the same account. That would be pretty cool. I'm thinking I could create a character on Atlantic and be instantly wealthy with access to all the gold available on that account. That would be interesting.
     
  29. SugarMMM

    SugarMMM Journeyman
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    Good point Vor on loading 2 clients! Duh!

    Capt. Lucky from what I gather from reading stuff here in UHall is that it isn't available across all shards. You'd have to load up your character on Legends then transfer that character to another server. You can fill up your character on Legends and transfer it to Sonoma and i'll hold onto it for you. Hehe
     
  30. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Babbling Loonie

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    Okay, so I really don't care about the gold improvement patch then :p
     
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  31. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    This won't fix the economy. IT won't stop duping. It's purpose is to make life easier on the billionaires, so they can handle their transactions in one step, without having to broker it.

    And of course it will free up many many many lockdowns for them :p
     
    #31 Uriah Heep, Aug 18, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
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  32. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    Actually, with checks being retired and thus unlaunderable, it should put a massive dent into gold duping.
     
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  33. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Babbling Loonie

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    I'm duping my whole account!
     
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  34. Spock's Beard

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    I have roughly 400m gold currently and live in a 7x7 because I love the location. This gold changeover can't come soon enough.
     
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  35. Yadd of Legends

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    I've thought of this too but have been consistently told it will not happen. All characters on the account on that shard share the gold, but not on another shard :(
     
  36. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Certifiable

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    Have you considered putting your gold on a vendor to free up some space?
     
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  37. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    this is a fact why the dupers duped gold instead of traceable items- near zero chance of being caught!!.... they simply laundered the duped checks through vendors into the bank...simple....the new monetry system is long overdue and will be most most welcomed by all...well all but the folks that were doing the duping i guess.
     
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  38. Angel of Sonoma

    Angel of Sonoma Certifiable
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    how am i going to carry gold with my char when i transfer to another shard if the gold isn't account bound across all shards? are they going to prompt me during the transfer asking how much gold i want to take? this, to me, sounds like a vulneribility.
     
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  39. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    The Devs have already stated that you will be able to take gold with you when you transfer. Please do yourself and others a favor and read what has already been asked before you go off the wall and panic.
     
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  40. Yadd of Legends

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    I think she knows you can take gold with you; she's wondering if just typing in a numbwr would be a vulnerability. I don't see how it would be, but I'm not expert in exploits.
     
  41. Angel of Sonoma

    Angel of Sonoma Certifiable
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    ^ this.
     
  42. Spock's Beard

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    Yeah but for now I have the room for checks and they're changing the system soon anyway. If there were no conversion forthcoming then I might resort to that, but I don't like making my house public.
     
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  43. Gamer_Goblin

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    I'm hardly an expert here Dot, but I think the point some are making is that the gold duping is small potatoes compared to some items people are duping to sell for more gold than a 1 million gold check. So the idea that they would solve for the gold dup'ing piece and not the duping of items that sell for more than the checks is what some are claiming the problem is.

    I'm just happy to see activity and I like the idea of the system regardless of reasoning.
     
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  44. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    1 mil checks were the most duped item in the game for over a decade, as evidenced by the devs touting removing billions years ago in a crack down.

    Duping items, particularly event items due to their stupid-high prices, I doubt is happening in any great quantity. I think the last time items were duped en mass was a side effect of successful transfers during the period that Atlantic lost during the revert.

    You'd think an active dupe would get noticed or snitched on. Anyone who knows about such an exploit should report it, instead of allowing it to further damage UO.
     
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  45. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    Think more along the lines of duped BOD books full of filled and ready to turn in barbed kit BODs...
     
  46. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    the devs have deleted billions of not trillions of gold over the last years....and burned houses/ deleted accounts to make examples....

    need we say more on the subject...

    the monetry system change is long over due and will be most most most welcomed by 95% of UO...yes the dupers will NOT like it.
     
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  47. Loren

    Loren Journeyman
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    I will keep this in mind. Next time I post that I have things for sale, I will explicitly state I will put them on a vendor. I typically run a relatively low bank balance, so I can not afford, or strongly prefer not to let high value items sit on a vendor, and lose hundreds of thousands of gold every day. Maybe a million if it is several days. That is good coin to me. I do not play in the rares market, nor 100m+ legendaries (yet :) ). Re:duped items, yeah if it seems too good to be true, it usually is. I have bought things on ATL, brought it back to CATS, seemed legit..and then I couldn't put it on my vendor. Sucks.
     
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  48. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Babbling Loonie

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    So are gold checks going to be the new rare? I know some of you are thinking it lol
     
  49. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Trade Forum Administrator
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    The old white checks from before the checks were changed to their current yellow color are barely worth 1m most of the time unless they have a particular number people like, for example zero or a million. If they are still worth such a small amount after 10+ years, chances are gold checks aren't going to become rare anytime soon :)
     
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  50. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Babbling Loonie

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    Yes it was said mostly in jest. But I bet I find posts wanting to sell them for 25 mill :p
     
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