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EA Killed the Thief! Can Broadsword save us?

Discussion in 'UO Crime' started by the_gooch, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. the_gooch

    the_gooch Lore Keeper
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    Hail fellow Scoundrels!



    With the switch to Broadsword already in full swing and tons of changes and improvements hopefully coming to the game I thought this could be a good time to discuss possible changes and improvements to the dying breed of thieves. So let’s please use this thread as a place to post things you’d like to see added or changed. As a PvP Thief on Siege Perilous a lot of my attention is in these areas but I do want to address any issues that may also come up with our PvM style Thief's.





    Post your ideas and ill update the basic idea to the “Wish List”

    The Wish List:

    Bag’s of Sending – Steal-able

    Value System

    Toggle NEVER run

    Stolen Items not being automatically returned to their owners after death.

    NO INSTANT GUARD WHACK!



    Here we go....

    • Bags of Sending SHOULD NOT count as containers

    You cant carry item in them. They just send items directly to a bank and is a luxury item. These should absolutely not count as containers and should be steal-able from players.​



    • Value System

    This is a new idea and probably requires a lot of fine tuning to make possible but ive spoken to a few thief's and we all agree it could be a winner. The basic idea is that all items in game will have a value number. It can be shown at all times visible underneath the weight of the item. This Value Number will determine several things:​

    1) The difficulty of stealing! Value can determine by itself or in combination with weight the difficulty of stealing items. This could be applied to both PvP and PvM Thief's and could help make it easier to understand what you can and cannot steal based of the posted numbers.​

    2) More PvP(this section in combination with NO GUARD WHACK rules) would be that Value would assign criminal points. Criminal points would then determine how long a Thief would remain in a criminal or grey state regardless of being killed. For example. A pair of scissors could have a value of 0 and would offer no penalty for stealing other than being a grief-er. However say a Powerscroll which only weighs 1 stone can have a value of 10 and would make the thief a criminal for up too several hours if they do not acquire more criminal points. So in theory if you steal nothing but powerscrolls and other valuable items you will permanently be grey much like the murder system.​



    • The ability to toggle ALWAYS WALK

    There is a option to toggle always run. I would like the option to always walk so I can stop accidentally leaving stealth. It happens all the time in cities, dungeons, anywhere. I think this would be a super helpful tool to all stealthers as well as thieves.​



    • Stolen items returning to their owners needs to GO!

    I don’t know if this is a bug but I discovered it the other day. If you steal from a player and run away and somehow die the item you stole is INSTANTLY and AUTOMATICALLY teleported BACK into their packs. This is absolutely stupid. If I can get away from my mark then die and they cant find my body then the item is mine. They don’t have insurance and that is what it feels like. If I die and lose my suit and everything else good on them.​


    • That’s right, Folks, I said it! NO MORE INSTANT GUARD WHACK!

    Id like to eliminate the instant guard whack and add a new “perma-grey” system. Stealing would have a much higher % to turn the Thief grey and only a Legendary(120) Thief would have a slight chance to steal and not be flagged as a Criminal. There are two ideas we have regarding this:​

    A) Stealing will have a high % chance(basically every time you steal) to turn the Thief grey and the Thief remains visibly grey to EVERYONE. You will stay in this criminal perma-grey state until 1 of 2 things happens to you. 1) You are Killed by Anyone or 2) you aren’t killed but you will stay a criminal for X amount of time.(several hours at least because we want to completely remove guard whacks)​



    B) Stealing will have a high % chance(basically every time you steal) to turn the Thief grey and the Thief remains visibly grey to ONLY the mark and people who may have witnessed the theft. You will stay in this criminal perma-grey state until 1 of 2 things happens to you. 1) You are Killed by your mark or 2) you aren’t killed but you will stay a criminal for X amount of time to ONLY your mark.(was thinking something like 12-24 hours to give marks time to seek revenge)​




    The idea here is that We thieves on Siege agree it’s too easy to steal in Guard Zones. We are willing to go criminal for extended periods of time or have expanded respawn times so people can take justice into their own hands but we want to be able to do something new in return or get a buff. We aren’t PK’s and cannot be flagged all the time like most murderers.



    Please leave you idea’s, comments and concerns here as well as anything else you personally would like to see added or changed to the thief class.
     
    #1 the_gooch, Mar 18, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
    Pignasty, Troop, DungHook and 2 others like this.
  2. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Slightly Crazed
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    I like the guard whacking the way it is (at least on Siege) but you may change any other shard any way you wish!
    Are you sure you speak for all the thieves on Siege?
    Siege is the only place where it can pay to be a thief.
    I view changes like this as another nerf against a player class.
     
  3. mikni

    mikni Seasoned Veteran
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    How often do you think I get guard whacked stealing a scroll at the bank? Never happened.
     
  4. the_gooch

    the_gooch Lore Keeper
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    Also i hope people just remember these were intended to start other ideas to improve the thief. Please please stop getting hung up on the no guard whack that is one idea of many and was just meant to get the discussions going. We want to see what other Thieves to chime in as well and say what they may like to see added or changed if anything at all. This is a period of change for UO and i just thought a deeper look into a lesser played character might be due.
     
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  5. Boondocker

    Boondocker Adventurer

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    An always walk option would help.
    I'm a little new to the heart bounding adventure stalking ones prey.
     
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  6. Neverborn

    Neverborn Visitor

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    I think some changes to make thieving more attractive would be fantastic...it's the whole reason i came back to the game and would like to see it a bit more lucrative then it currently is...since while you could theoretically do it on every shard (some you would have to be more vigilant then others) i just think the bias of only having a siege thief should maybe be pushed in the other direction...hopefully...at some point...maybe?
     
  7. the_gooch

    the_gooch Lore Keeper
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    There is really no thrill like stalking a potential mark and getting away with some goodies! An always walk would benefit all steathers and could keep me from accidently running out of cover when im getting jittery!
     
  8. the_gooch

    the_gooch Lore Keeper
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    I recently rejoined the game as a thief as well. There are very few of us nowaday and i think a change or two to make them more attractive, as you say, is exactly what we need. Although personally im in it more for the adventure than profit having a better turn out on profit is always a nice thing too.
     
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  9. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
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    I happen to believe that all Fel guards should be able to get killed, especially in Felucca.. All guards should be on the level of faction guards and that is they should be able to get killed off.. In Trammel it does not matter since there is no PVP there (unless you're guild warring..) I also think if you die from a guard you should go to jail, when you kill a player or steal from them it should build up a bounty (rather than murder counts) and that bounty should go up as you do things, you get killed by a guard and you get sent to a jail and if anyone has ever played Age of Wushu, you can pay off the guards to let you out, or you can wait to stand trial or your friends can come and bust you out.. It would really just add more content and probably make PVP in Fel a little more fun..
     
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  10. the_gooch

    the_gooch Lore Keeper
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    I really like these ideas! Especial about of going to jail and needing friends for a jail break out! or bribing your way out which would make an excellent gold sink. I could see this as being almost champ spawn like. Instead of fighting off monsters you can fight off humans which are labled "prison guard". I also really like the idea of the bounty counts. Especially if it could be tied into my proposed value system. Stealing valuable things gives you a bounty on your head and players can have a chance to collect it.
     
  11. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Stealing is an act of aggression against another player, period. And like any other act of aggression towards another player, if it takes place in a guard zone - then the guards should be able to be called to deal with it.
    And every steal, no matter how high your stealing is, should flag you grey because of that act of aggression! If you run a thief, then you need to be ready to run...
     
  12. the_gooch

    the_gooch Lore Keeper
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    Youre right i want to run and i want to be chased. I want to be flagged for long periods of time because it makes playing my character alot more exciting. I do also think guards should be allowed to be called too but not by the NPC. If the mark is careless enough to stand around and i take something, flag grey, run away and they just stand there that's their mistake. I am always ready to run but rarely get chased.
     
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  13. the_gooch

    the_gooch Lore Keeper
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    Youre right i want to run and i want to be chased. I want to be flagged for long periods of time because it makes playing my character alot more exciting. I do also think guards should be allowed to be called too but not by the NPC. If the mark is careless enough to stand around and i take something, flag grey, run away and they just stand there that's their mistake. I am always ready to run but rarely get chased.
     
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  14. the_gooch

    the_gooch Lore Keeper
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    I would also like to add some attention to Disguise Kits.

    Why is it after all this time you still cant remove the kit? or go into animal form while wearing it? or even why does it still reset all your macros if you log off while the disguise is on?



    How about we make Disguises removable with a cloth or Oil Cloth like the old savage kin paints?
     
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  15. Zerbee

    Zerbee Journeyman
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    Oh please yes! Pleeeaaase make it so when you log off with a disguise and log back on it doesn't reset your macros.

    Also not sure if my memory fails me or not, but you used to be able to use a hair dye bottle bought from NPCs on your disguise so you wouldn't have the ridiculous and obvious gray hair. As far as I remember this was changed and you can no longer dye your hair while disguised. Dying one's hair is a simple but effective change!

    Finally, my suggestion for how PvP thieves can be improved. Bit out there but eh thought I'd throw in my opinion. When thieves have a high enough stealing skill and potentially a certain weapon skill high enough, give them the ability to steal from range. Some sort of weapon, a pike or spear for example, could steal an object at range by "hooking" onto it and pulling it back to the thief. Obviously you can't snoop from far away, but to remedy this as any decent PvP thief knows you can snoop up close and set the object you want to steal as last target. After setting it as last target, run away, pop on your thieving hook and do a nice ranged steal with your steal > last target macro! I doubt this will ever happen, but there had been so many situations where I could have used a ranged steal! D:
     
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  16. the_gooch

    the_gooch Lore Keeper
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    I was not aware that you couldnt dye your hair anymore! This absolutely should be changed as well. Disguise kits are our only tool and theyve been under apreciated for a LONG time.

    I like the hooking idea alot for sure but dont see it being added unless there was something like a huge cooldown or low success chance. I dont like the idea and think Thieves need some kind of love in a new ability or technique to lift items off our marks.
     
  17. DJAd

    DJAd Stratics Legend
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    Yeah I want to be able to hold up a bank with my thief.
     
  18. Duke_Hammerfest

    Duke_Hammerfest Adventurer

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    always walk can be taken care of with " player skill " :p , just saying
     
  19. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Perma Grey...nuff said...la
     
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