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EA.. Take a Hint...from DarkFall

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Cetric, May 7, 2009.

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  1. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    From the DarkFall Forums.

    Its a beautiful thing.



    We banned 213 cheaters today. These are the people using 3rd party programs to cheat with. They were not banned for macroing, they were banned for cheating. They were automatically detected and also verified manually in a variety of ways. This number represents 90% of the cheaters in Darkfall right now. The rest have also been detected, and we’re waiting for them to be verified before we ban them as well.

    These people were warned repeatedly. They chose to believe that we cannot detect what’s going on in our game. They took the word of the makers of these hacks over the word of the creators and administrators of the game. There are no exceptions. We don’t care if journalists, clan leaders, or our friends are among them. They were cheating in order to gain an unfair advantage over the rest of us. They deserve to be banned.

    What comes into play here is something called “selfish punishment” in social science. Cheaters are likely to be some of the most outspoken people against cheating, and more likely to report cheaters. This is as so to maximize the benefit for themselves - taking it away from others. This is also the case here; we recognize some of the people from the boards habitually accusing the company for not doing anything and complaining that cheating is rampant in Darkfall, when in reality it’s not.

    If you cheat in the game, you will lie about it too. Whenever we ban a cheater he or she will appeal to the community, denying it on the forums. Then come the excuses to Darkfall support about their little brother, their roommate, or about their account being hacked. So now we expect a couple of hundred people to take to the boards. Threads along these lines will be removed and posters will be banned. Darkfall Support has been instructed to not provide more than the automated ban message. Do not side with these people just because you may have played with them and didn’t happen to observe them cheating. They were cheating beyond a shadow of a doubt, detected and verified in more than one ways. There is no appeals process, our decision is final, and we will not reveal our methods.

    We will keep aggressively detecting and banning players that cheat in the game. If you’re not running 3rd party cheats, you have nothing to worry about. Those that don’t take our word for it, will be banned like those banned today.

    Thank you,
    The Darkfall Team
     
  2. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    I think if GMs started handing out 24 hour bans with a warning that another infraction regarding the same issue will result in a perma ban... people would stop doing it with the quickness.


    I also think that the players in game and on these forums needlessly cry about this issue over and over again when speedhacking really doesn't provide you with an advantage (your character can only go so fast and that speed is obtainable w/o 3rd party.)

    :danceb:
     
  3. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    Wow! That message makes it pretty clear! Well done DarkFall design team! They built cheat detectors into their software.
     
  4. Experimental

    Experimental Lore Keeper
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  5. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    That's the kind of heavy handed justice we need. You screw up, break the rules? Well, sucks to be you. Good for them.
     
  6. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    If it doesn't provide any advantage then why do people use it?

    You're ignorant if you actually believe that.

    :loser:
     
  7. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    wait Cetric_GL... by the logic of the article, wouldn't posting this mean you were outspoken about cheating which would mean you are likely a cheater? ... *head spins*

    If tradition holds, UO's annual mass banning announcement isn't for a few months yet :)
     
  8. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    ROFL, you mean like having a game release only in Europe, then have soooo much demand that they sell out the total number of subscriptions every day within minutes?

    Darkfall = lose...la
     
  9. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    Unfortunately for EA, they are 10 years too late to start heavy handed justice.

    They've lost too many "honest" players that won't come back no matter what.

    And of the players left, if they were heavy handed, they'd lose too many subscriptions to keep UO viable.:coco:
     
  10. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Agreed. Regardless what ea staff says with having plenty of subscriptions. What they are counting are trial,inactive,and multiple accounts all own by 1 player. so assuming theres 100k accounts left. 40k of those are inactive and trial accounts are only reactivated once every 3 months. Another 40k accounts belong to the other 20k active players and well ban half of those players youre left with 10k players in all the shards. Not enough to keep uo open.
    Im making these numbers out of nowhere but you get the hint. 6 years ago it was what 200k players left and it's being on a heavy decline after every nerf and horrible change plus competition and the economy. So am probably being very generous with the numbers.
    But it was just a symbolism post. Money is in EA's best interest doesnt matter where it comes from as long as it is flowing on a constant profit. And unfortunetly it's in our own best interest to keep as many people around even if they harass us or are just minding there own business or we just don't like there name.
     
  11. dukarlo

    dukarlo Seasoned Veteran
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    This is the dumbest thing I hear when it comes to speedhacking. People wouldnt run a speedhack unless it gave them an advantage.. There is no way people can justify it. Why would someone run something that didnt give them an advantage? What? are people just running the crap because it makes them cool? No thier running it because it makes them faster than people that dont run it.
     
  12. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    I just don't understand why people think there is some sort of "speed cap that cannot be broken". Hard to believe people are THAT ignorant/blind. Maybe they are just brown nosing to ea, who knows lol
     
  13. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    After UO dies, the last line on any Wilki type website is going to say;

    "UO failed to remove the cheaters from their game and ultimately it cost them millions of dollars in sub fees and eventually lead to them closing down the game".

    :coco:
     
  14. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Agreed.

    BTW, i love you signature haha, makes me laugh every time. I just picture some of GL's famous running around burning lol
     
  15. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    Considering how many cheaters flock to ALL online games regardless of enforcement.... just how small is the number of players of Darkfall for 213 people to be 90% of the cheaters in the game? I'd be shocked if it were even 10k.
     
  16. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Why didn't they ban the other 10%?
     
  17. Nibblets

    Nibblets Guest

    The 213 was 90% of the cheaters in the game...I've noticed that the number of cheaters when a game is first released is rather few, for the simple fact that they wait and see how the developers themselves deal with the cheaters that get caught, so no wonder the number of cheaters are low...and the other 10% didn't get banned yet, but their accounts were under observation and one more infraction and they would be banned as well...

    I think Darkfall's approach is a good one...
    I think if word got around the UO started taking a similar stance that you would see an influx of old players back in. I still keep in contact with quite a few, that if it weren't for some issues that still needed to be delt with, they would be back in a heartbeat.
     
  18. Rocklin

    Rocklin Guest

    "This number represents 90% of the cheaters in Darkfall right now. The rest have also been detected, and we’re waiting for them to be verified before we ban them as well."

    ~ Rock
     
  19. Infiniti

    Infiniti Guest

    Well done! :thumbsup:
     
  20. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    edit: *decided my post sounded more grumpy and cynical than I want to sound right now*
     
  21. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    More accurate would be:
    "UO failed to make timely and well thought out fixes and patches that ultimately cost them millions of $$$ that led to it closing down"

    I doubt even 10% of the people who have quit did so over cheaters and hackers. I'd bet most quit over poorly thought out publishes and bugs that take months to fix.:coco:
     
  22. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    okay ... since I closed UO accounts I have been wondering where to play next. I think I just found it.

    Jeez, but that is one gorgeous message ... and out in the open, too! Nice work Darkfall Team!
     
  23. WizzaX

    WizzaX Journeyman
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    Wow *claps*

    Hrmmm ... i wonder if Darkfall is any fun......
     
  24. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Because they claim it takes a couple weeks to verify someone is cheating before they get banned. So you see the same person day after day continuing on until one day they disappear. But who knows if they quit or were banned.

    It is the same process UO uses, they just don't go around posting how many people they ban. The Darkfall developers had to make that statement because it appeared no one was getting banned for cheating.
     
  25. deadite

    deadite Sage
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    UO tried to do that with PunkBuster and a handful of Uhallers went bat**** crazy over "privacy concerns." I can only assume that they are the reason we never got it... Warhammer did though. Seems to be working pretty well for them.
     
  26. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
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    Its certainly to be applauded. Nip it in the bud early on and prevent it getting out of hand. UO is unfortunately too far gone for that. Ban 90% of the cheaters in UO and you dont have a player base left large enough to sustain the game.

    I'll say right here and now that I WANT the cheats to stay in UO. If we lose them ... then I dont have a game to play anymore.
     
  27. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    Except that Punkbuster is not built in; its a third party application with a EULA that allows the third party to search any filesystem mounted on the machine and take screenshots of a user's desktop - all at their total discretion. That is the bat****.

    The team needs to encrypt the data stream and stop trusting the client, not abdicate their responsibility by requiring totally inappropriate security theater from a third party.
     
  28. deadite

    deadite Sage
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    You think their system works any differently than PunkBuster? And the reports were to go straight to EA IIRC, not PunkBuster.

    Melodramatic paranoia. Besides, nobody at PunkBuster cares about your personal data. They have a reputation to uphold if they wish to remain in business.

    You're much more likely to be a victim of identity theft at your mailbox than you are online.
     
  29. Tek

    Tek Seasoned Veteran
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    This is very true here as well, I know players who complain about one type of cheating while they cheat other ways themselves.
     
  30. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    I don't know how I missed this. Darkfall's client does not have any sort of "cheat detection". The has said they are using server side logs and Gamemaster observations. If there was cheat detection people would get banned a lot faster.
     
  31. ElRay

    ElRay Guest

    Thats great.

    The point is, they are doing something about it, instead of having their heads up their asses about it.
     
  32. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Because people will do anything they **think** will give them an advantage in PvP.

    It's like the tree-stump and tile edits to the UO files.

    Does your character suddenly run through the forrest differently? No. You still hold down the right mouse button while pointing in the direction you want to run... so what's the big deal? OMG NO FAIRS!!!! The masses cry...

    And if you don't have the tile field edit, is it impossible to figure out how to place field spells well?

    It's only impossible if you're a complete newb at playing a mage.

    :dunce:

    The same damn thing for speedhacking. If your computer is decent and you are NOT on dial up (or playing a server on the other side of the world) there is no real difference. Your character can only move so fast and there is NO WAY to move faster without hacking the game directly.

    :talktothehand:

    So which brings me to my point... these "hacks" everyone waffles about don't even give any real advantage to the newb-tards that use them. I personally laugh at the asshats that need to use them in order to compete in UO. How freaking sad and sucky are you REALLY to feel like you need it to compete? I don't use them because I don't need a crutch to compete and I PvP at the highest level.

    It's ALL psychological and that's it. Even if there was no 'hacking' in this game, people would find some reason to ***** about as an excuse for why they suck at PvP and keep getting their asses handed to them.

    PvP is about teamwork, your knowledge of this game and your ability to execute that knowledge.

    Let me say that it is certifiably true, 100% accurate, stone cold hard fact... that the VAST majority of players in this game... are not good at PvP.

    EDITED last part out... was a bit rough, I apologize as I don't get how people just don't understand how computers and this game... really work.

    :danceb:
     
  33. ElRay

    ElRay Guest

    What a dumbass, total waste of air and space.
     
  34. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    ...

    There is definately a speed cap that cannot be broken.

    What 'speedhacking' does if, anything is reduce the latency between the information your computer is sending/receiving to the server.

    I really can't believe people are THAT stupid/ignorant to think 'speedhackers' can break the speedcap... because if they could, don't you think they'd be running around the world A LOT faster?!?!?
     
  35. dukarlo

    dukarlo Seasoned Veteran
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    Youll still have UO to play, just not EAs UO.
     
  36. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    How can you possibly believe it doesn't make a difference? Based on your previous post it doesn't seem like you do PvP.

    The stump/field hack that you refer to also includes the passable hack. Now tell me that doesn't make a difference.

    Please post more ignorant dribble.

    kthxbye
     
  37. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    This number represents 90% of the cheaters in Darkfall right now.

    ...and 95% of the paid accounts :p
     
  38. wrekognize

    wrekognize Guest

    and they do. I can be running full speed and have people running by me. It is clear there is a hack out there. They don't use the hack until they need to chase someone down.
     
  39. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    I'm really trying to be civil in discussing this with you.

    I'm also having a hard time following your posts as they make no-****ing-sense-what-so-ever.

    Do I remember the rubberband trick? What the hell does that have to do with a 'speedhack'?

    Does it have to do with that "passable hack" you made up out of thin air that supposidly came with the tree-stump edit fairy tale you just told?

    What the HELL are you talking about at this point. You talked about a bug, which was corrected, which had nothing to do with "hacking" or "speedhacking" or anything related to anything we are discussing for that matter.

    Seriously?!?!? :dunce:
     
  40. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    I'm really hard pressed to believe this. Everyone who I've talked to who knows anything about coding or writing programs or anything that would qualify have told me exactly what I thought... and that unless you specifically are hacking the server, there is no way you can surpass the speed cap.


    Maybe in high-information spots (maybe a huge fight of 50+ players in Yew, along with a ton of houses and tons of items in each house, generating tons of information) would create a lot of lag for certain computers... and those running the 'speedhacks' would have a slight advantage over those who didnt... but even then it shouldn't matter in the outcome of a fight.

    Where are your crossheals? Your team-coordination? Group PvP is all about how well you work TOGETHER, not how fast your character can run away from a fight.

    Even then... I PvP alllll the time and I never have the problem where I'm dying to someone just because they are slightly faster than me. It's never been the case and I call BS whenever someone tries to claim it. You got out played... that's it.
     
  41. ElRay

    ElRay Guest

    Thanks mods for not banning me.....its just so hard to have civil conversations with mental midgets
     
  42. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    No such thing as "the passable hack"

    It's crystal clear that you don't have a single clue as to what you're even talking about.

    And you call me ignorant :dunce:
     
  43. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Passable hack is made up? People walking through bagballs, candelabras, some gravestones in the field, boxes - that's the passable hack. It's not made up, there are videos of people doing it on Youtube and people do it every day on great lakes.

    It does have to do with what we are discussing. You are not smart, I realize this now. Going forward I'll limit my posts to include 2 syllable words to make it easy for you to keep up.

    Yes, seriously. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. Thanks for a good laugh. I always thoroughly enjoy it when kids who think they are smart make themselves look like the tool shed that they really are.

    I'm done with you.
     
  44. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Oh please tell us just one more time what it feels like to be buttsore. :thumbsup:
     
  45. ElRay

    ElRay Guest

    .......
    Noone has agreed with what you are saying. Not.....One......Person and its doubtful any future posters will agree with you.

    Su madre sabe mejor
     
  46. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Allow me to translate this.

    "I don't really know anything about computers or programming myself. There is someone in my guild that knows about that stuff. He tries to justify his cheating to me by telling me it doesn't make a difference. He used big words in his explanation, but I really didn't understand him. In my text below I'm doing my best to remember and regurgitate exactly what he said."
     
  47. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    ... and according to you... it was included with the 'tree-stump hack'?

    and then you describe it as...

    So did it like... come as a text file... a "how to" instructional booklet in that program that alters all the tree animations in your UO folder so they look like tree-stumps? Yes it's a program that makes the trees look like tree stumps and all it does is change the animation of the trees into tree stumps. It doesn't "hack" anything...

    Do you not see how ridiculous you sound? You have no freaking clue what you're even talking about.

    You backpeddal over and over again. You contradict yourself and its crystal clear that you don't know what your talking about and are just looking for something to blame on why you die to others in PvP. I'm sure you've heard many a-tale from your guildmates who probably like-wise, die a lot in PvP and tell you all about how it was these 'hacks' and not the fact that they suck.

    Thank GOD because now I can get back to reading tales of ElRays worship of me and the humungusness of which that is my e-penis.
     
  48. T'Challa

    T'Challa Certifiable
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    BINGO!
     
  49. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I think UO is a bit too old in years to do something like that. And if they did I don't think it would help much. You need take into account that DarkFall just recently launched and they are still going to be bringing in new accounts as time passes. Their recent action of banning hackers is not only for the good of the game but great publicity for advertising and will bring even more people to them. At this time UO isn't even on the shelves or even advertising anywhere. I don't even think a mass ban for hackers would draw more people to UO.
    Maybe when SA comes out they might draw enough players to the game to actually do this and increase their profit?
     
  50. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    The term "hacking" originated from programmers "hacking" away at their code. By modifying files that the client looks to for animation, you are "hacking" the client. Try to understand.

    And this is what you say when you don't have anything to say. There was no backpedaling, no contradictions, just me explaining how wrong you are.

    Good luck with your future trolls, hopefully you'll stumble upon someone less intelligent than you (doubtful).
     
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