1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Economy a mess

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Doubleplay, Jul 16, 2011.

  1. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2007
    Messages:
    754
    Likes Received:
    150
    Something needs to be done about the continual decline of the UO economy. On my shard, most of the Luna vendors are now MT. It is getting impossible to find a specific item for sale anymore. The whole system makes no sense. New peeps to UO simply do not have a chance. They are forced to develop all their own resources or join some group. Even the New Magencia vendors (about 8 total on my shard) are mostly MT. One guy bought a vendor, and it has been MT for two weeks. He never put anything up for sale or trade.

    Vendor fees, lack of a search feature, the economy and etc. hinder trade. I have some high end items that should sell for 50 million or so. How in the heck can I get them on the market? Even posting on Trader's hall is dismal.

    Perhaps I am a dufus thinking that trade is an important part of the game experience. If so, then I confess. But what do I do with the chests of real goodies I have accumulated over the years that others drool for? Somehow, running thru Luna, dropping valuable items on the floor doesn't help those who are in need of the stuff, and stocking them on a vendor is out of the question.
     
  2. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    MT?
    try a different forum, stratics isn't the only one. drop books (seems popular). get listed w/ one of the nameless search engines. hawk stuff at Luna; rent a vendor spot somewhere & drop runes regularly
     
  3. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    MT is probably referring to what everybody is calling "Mage Trainers". The latest publish allowed you to turn your vendors into Advanced Mage Training Dummies, which is in response to warriors getting the advanced training dummies in the last booster. Mages complained a lot about this and they responded.

    Since everybody trains in Luna, it makes sense a lot of MTs would pop up.

     
  4. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,260
    Likes Received:
    268
    MT= Empty.

    I agree the vendor fees need to go or need to be deducted when an item sells.

    Over the last year I have seen MANY beautiful shops close down. The current system in place is not good for the game.
     
  5. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    I used the acronym MT for years till some one told me no one understands they all think its mis tell! LOL And I liked that one too~!
     
  6. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    755
    Likes Received:
    642
    In the beginning of his comment, I thought MT referred to a guild on his shard.
     
  7. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    21,553
    Likes Received:
    3,840
    Funny I think the opposite of the OP is the problem.
    People for too long have had too much handed to them easily. No one ever has to "develop all their own resources or join some group" anymore. And things shouldn't ever have gotten to the point where you have "high end items worth 50 million or so".
    These, OP, are the reason the economy is a mess, not the other way around.
     
  8. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,783
    Likes Received:
    10
    If you want to be a merchant, for the most enjoyment play on Atlantic.
     
  9. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    The only reason people sell items for 50+ mil gold is because there are people out there willing to pay that much for those items. And as long as those people are there prices will likely never lower for those "high-end" items.
     
  10. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,756
    Likes Received:
    689
    I'm still unclear why you think this is necessarily a bad thing, people working for stuff or joining with others in a mmo...

    If you seriously want to get stuff to new and starting players, then you can - but it involves you giving up time going round Haven, finding new people over chat, and talking to them to find out what they need before you hand out stuff to them. For trade with more established players, plenty of existing traders do very well indeed with their vendors and selling items through them, and forums, and chat - but it's quite hard work at times.

    Seems you have a good intention - to get stuff to people who may have better use for it than you, at a profit if you can - but you don't appear to want to work at doing it.... the real question is how much do you want to get those items to others, whether it's a serious aim you value or just something you'd like to be able to do with no effort at all on your part?
     
  11. Serafi

    Serafi Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,069
    Likes Received:
    17
    No, not at all. But you do not state which shard you are on. If you enjoy merchanting you need to locate to a place where that is a viable option. Viable here meaning a large enough playerbase that sustains such a playstyle. Oh, and of course take into account what kind of merchant you are. If you want to trade in items worth 50 M and up the list of possible shards to do that is limited.
     
  12. Luvmylace

    Luvmylace Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    194
    I agree with Fluttter and I go even further to say ,Yes the trade is important but UO has so many diverse avenues to keep people gaming all day.IMO , what is more important is this:
    I wish that there were no more of these kinds of threads .I am not singling out the author here ,but the flavor these threads turn into. I am totally sick of the ungrateful, ever whining greedy people complaining they want more. Get real and get off the the boards if you have nothing positive to contribute and go play the game .Give the team a break and be happy it is still here .Try replacing the shouts of a bratty child with praise for doing the best within the constraints they work with.
    If threads just said "I wish" instead of the overwhelming entitlements they all are now it would be different . Then there would be acknowledgement of the efforts of the team. Then there would be people seeing the glass half full. And then maybe instead of criticizing what was accomplished ,people would just enjoy the marvel of UO
     
  13. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2007
    Messages:
    754
    Likes Received:
    150
    MT indeed means empty as I used it.

    I am a 13 year veteran and have maxed out on all the crafting characters. I need for nothing and have plenty of gold. In fact, I have no problems at all personally finding enjoyment with the game.

    When the high seas expansion came out, I had another challenge: Make a 120 fishing character. It took a little longer than I expected, but I enjoyed it all. However catching enough crabs and lobsters became a little tedious. I started looking for vendors selling crabs and lobsters. My shard is Sonoma.

    In Luna there were exactly 2 and sometimes 3 vendors selling crabs. The prices were high, but considering the drudgery in obtaining the items, not too high. I was more than willing to pay anything to avoid fishing for them. So I bought what I needed in Luna.

    The vendors ran out of stock, they were never restocked. I started looking around. How in the heck was I to find vendors across the land that were selling crabs? If you venture far from Luna you find vendor after vendor that has gone belly up due to the low traffic. You can have the best items in Sosaria for sale, but unless someone walks by, how in the heck can you sell? Yes, you can mark a bunch of runes, drop them all over and hope that before they decay someone will log on, see the rune and come to your shop. If you are serious, you can mark runes every hour or so for days, drop them all over the place. What a mess.

    Now the crab and lobster business is a good one. You can catch up to 50 of them every 10 minutes or so. They can sell for up to 150K per 10. That is a pretty good return for the effort. My only comment re this post is to point out that the economic activity (selling crabs) is not occurring on my shard, and to question why?
     
  14. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    People use all kinds of different measures to say the economy is broken.

    I can't buy things. I can't afford to buy things. It is too easy to get gold and equipment. It is too hard to get gold and equipment. I can't sell at the high prices I want. Prices are too high.

    These measures are, of course, all contradictory of one another.

    People have been saying the economy is "broken" for years and years now, using various contradictory metrics to "prove" it.

    I can't say everything is fine because I have no idea what fine means. The reverse is also true: No one can honestly say it's broken because there, rather obviously, is no set definition of broken.

    Specific pieces of equipment can be hard or easy to find depending upon the shard....But, of course, via global chat and bank sitting it is surely possible to find, or commission, a piece that's what you want or close to it.

    Surely gold being easy-ish to find is a problem, right? Unless of course you account for the fact that we also keep reading about how hard it is for noobs to come up to speed, in which case that might suggest that gold should be yet-easier to come by.

    Eh, I could go on for pages and pages....Bottom line is that saying something is broken is easy; there's an infinite number of metrics you can use to come to that conclusion or come to its exact opposite.

    Out of curiosity, what shard is this, anyway.

    -Galen's player
     
  15. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    They said it was on Sonoma. That aside, the arguments are actually not contradictory, Economics is the one place where two different arguments are completely valid. Gold is to easy to get, for someone who has played the game for 14 years, but for a new person not so much since they do not have the equipment needed to farm for items/gold. That proves that prices are to high to keep a stable Economy since the people trying to sell are the ones who do not need and have much money and the ones trying to buy are the ones in need with little to no money.

    I won't claim the "average" player is to rich, but the richest of players have way more than their share, not even by "fair" standards but by standards of keeping an economy balanced.
     
  16. EricVT

    EricVT Adventurer
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    3
    Who thought that one up? lol
     
  17. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    2,258
    Likes Received:
    14
    BNN: THE END IS NIGH?

    Disturbing news from the Council of Mages in Moonglow - their leading astronomers have spotted a gigantic meteor that appears to be hurdling straight towards Sosaria! A spokesperson for the Council has indicated that if their calculations are correct, the meteor (dubbed Comet Elric) will strike the city of Luna directly! Thousands flee the city, Umbra overwhelmed by refugees. It seems the city of Luna is soon to be wiped from the face of the planet! The economy's main business hub is estimated to be flattened in roughly 7 days.

    Our hearts go out to all those humble merchants, just trying to scrape by offering us the lowest prices imaginable.
     
  18. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    2,258
    Likes Received:
    14
    I saw it on a movie once. Fire in the Sky. MT Motors: "Our prices are so great, our showroom is almost always empty."
     
  19. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,260
    Likes Received:
    268
    The economy is not broken but there is clearly an issue with vendors shutting down due to excessive fees which is why I say it's not good for the game. More vendor shops is good for the game and good for all players..especially new players.

    A new player joining Ultima is going to select the shard they ping the best to and it may be a shard that is MT...pun intended. There are several shards that are desolated and those who do play their don't put items on vendors simply for the fact that the population/traffic is so low that there is no money in it...they only stand to lose money because chances are the item will sit there for so long before it ever sells if it even does. Now a new player starting out on a shard that has a low population but has the best ping may run into one of those shards empty (MT).

    Let's face it new players need access to certain things players can provide. Simple things like spellbooks and scrolls in order to get started.

    I wonder how many players chiming in this thread saying there is no problem play on multiple shards. Go check out ALL the shards and you will see CLEARLY that there is an ISSUE.

    I don't mind paying fees or getting taxed or whatever you want to call it although I disagree with the notion of gold sinks. I think it's plain stupid but anyways...

    What I do mind is seeing player runs shops go under and new players in the game running around wondering where they can get a spellbook and an LRC suit etc.

    I dare one of you who disagree to go start over on a shard that is emptied out.

    The OP who has a gripe is referring to Sonoma which is not even remotely close to MT as some other shards. Sonoma has changed drastically over the past year. It used to be a bustling shard and now is a relative ghost town but it pales in comparison to some of the other shards which are really MT.

    Vendor fees need to be changed and addressed! It's for the greater good of the game!

    Crazy Kids!:mf_prop:
     
  20. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Advanced Mage Training Dummy: Players can now turn their vendors into an Advanced Mage Training Dummy, which will train magery-related skills to 60.

    Gothic Theme Pack – Advanced Training Dummy – Craftable 12 May 2011
    So this is for theme pack buyers only? and not craftable?
     
  21. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,750
    Likes Received:
    1,562
    For a few minutes I kept rereading the first few lines of the OPs post to finally figure out they were talking about empty vendors....
    Yes I have gone to many shards and there is hundreds of vendors on luna houses that are completely devoid of items and stay that way for months as their owners are ether not playing or dont care that they are banking the gold... as they are personal atm machines.

    I can understand that prices for items has rissen extreamly actually we cause it... its not uo's fault on this fact of human greed... EM's make a show of giving out 1 to 10 of one kind of item.... the group get a 2nd item of lesser rareness say 100 of them... the 1 to 10 item is soo saught out by the rares hunters who will show up like vultures to a kill at events and hawk they will buy the items even before the events are over! They offer millions to buy them even before the owner thinks too long on the piece and sell to him... we pay for over inflated prices as he buys for mega bucks the event collector on shards is at fault for the inflation. The transfer system aids him in his work to make uo life hell. in a matter of hours event items are on Atlantic... Auctions of these items abound... the item he paid a player on LS 20 mill for is now 60 to 100 mill on Atlantic...or more! With cheap transfer tolkens and the willingness of the first owner to make a fast gold coin....... it wont end. Gold is the root of all evil ..... wasnt a phrase in the past its alive and well in games and in Real Life. There is no stopping it.. unless shard transfer stops. If that happens... Oh I am not sure the prices will drop for a bit as the residual greed montsers will still have gold to buy with... but that will dry up as the wealth spreds.(a dream)
    Vendors will not be stocked as the apthy in the game is go after the big ticket items and *** the rest, they want more gold then the average amount a tool kit can bring.. and they want it now not 2 weeks later when a young shows up and needs tools....

    On Napa my shop's prices havent risen in years... why?? the player who is not gold star struck still needs a keg of plant fixative or a chair for that table he just placed .... a hand full of fish to eat... small stuff the bigger vendors wouldnt think to carry or even the new xpack stuff so cheap i sell out before i finish loading upthe vendor! Im not greedy but I do understand the players out there who are. We cant fix it kiddo... not without alot of sacrafice on everyones part.. and that will happen when pigs fly. Or every bug in UO is magicly gone and all things work perfectly.... in other words "IN YOUR DREAMS"
     
  22. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,260
    Likes Received:
    268
    I'm not a fan of this at all. I see items on vendors that I've never heard of selling for 50-100M and some of the items are identical graphics and all that's change is the name and the color.:thumbdown:

    Daemonic Crisis is one that stands out. An item like that should never have been allowed to be given out at EM events.:sad2:

    Maybe each shard should have an EM Library Donation to give other players the same opportunity to get those items.:stir::party:

    Some of these EM Items and prices are absolutely ludicrous.
     
  23. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    agreed -
    Why does there have to be an event widget at the end of the trail? I thought the events were supposed to be Fun? Adventurous? If they're not, I say trash the program. You get what you can loot. NO special items, or make 'em no-drop - that ends that problem w/ event crack doesn't it? Makes people play within the intended spirit of the event program; otherwise 'we' as a collective, pay for those people's crack out of our subs, getting Nothing in return.

    Give it a few years, maybe the Dev's will do something
     
  24. Thats because the rarity of items is defunct with the plethora of EM items. Nobody wants 50 million gold crap pixels anymore.

    No one knows what is rare. No on can tract whether EM items are of 10 or 1000. There are so many floating around you cant even have a museum anymore because there is too much damn stuff.

    EMs have killed the rares market. Thats neither good or bad. Just no one wants it. I just wait till I can go to an EM event and lock those down now. 100's of things we dont know whats what to drop even 10 mill.

    Now if you have things like a Slither it will sell in a second.

    The economy is fine. No one is paying stupid prices for things anymore.

    Pay your fees. Drop runes. IF no on comes your price is to high.
     
  25. Miri of Sonoma

    Miri of Sonoma Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2008
    Messages:
    897
    Likes Received:
    255
    *shakes her head and laughs* In a few years the english language will be unrecognizable!

    :eyes:
     
  26. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,260
    Likes Received:
    268
    Cyberspace Ebonics!:gee:

    I'm okay with acronyms where it's warranted but it's hard to keep up and I find myself googling urban dictionary all too often. AFAIK (As far as I know), FWIW (For what it's worth) etc.... I can understand those.

    Certaintly a 5 letter word isn't in need of an acronym. With 2 letters your already 1/2 way there.

    What can one say?

    Decline of western civilization. :mf_prop:
     
  27. Rowdydude

    Rowdydude Guest

    I hate shopping for items what a huge pain in the arse. Quite being hard headed and copy the WOW auction house. It functions well most people ar euse to using it. unless it is a huge programming nightmare it needs to happen. The community is too sparse and spead out to function properly under the existing model. I got all the gold i need but nothing to spend it on
     
  28. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,783
    Likes Received:
    10
    100% Agree.

    Need at minimum a Global Vendor Search website. Sure the RMTers wont like this but they are like 1% of p(l)ayers. If they want to make money, they can get real jobs.

    Even better would be an auction house with a 5% intra-shard, 10% inter-shard commission which would also be an effective gold sink.

    Finally reduce vendor fees dramatically. It was ok when we had 250,000 players, but it is way too high when there are only 25-30,000 players especially on low populated shards.
     
  29. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    vendor Fee's are only an issue when greed becomes a problem.

    Seriously, if people were not trying to sell items for a price far outside the idea of fair, then it would be no problem. A free market is intended to drive prices down, in UO economics, if someone is selling for 20 mil, then price 22mil and eventually someone will buy it, keep on that cycle and an item worth x amount becomes y amount faster than inflation is suppose to be. Also with the amount of gold in game I am never for removing any gold sinks, we need more gold sinks for the overly rich (those who are selling).
     
  30. DenAlton036

    DenAlton036 Guest

    As a returning player who took a few years off the biggest things I see are...

    Shard population.. I get frustrated sometimes finding what I need on Sonoma.

    I would say the majority of players are vets who have everything they "need".

    It is wayyyyy too easy to get what you need now online with your credit card, and most of it for just a few bucks here and there.

    Den
     
  31. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,260
    Likes Received:
    268
    This thread can easily get derailed into a heated debate about why shard populations are so low.:stir::fight:

    If you think Sonoma is bad then you should really have a look at some of the other shards. Sonoma is a thriving Metropolis compared to some shards.

    I agree with the vets have everything.

    The focus needs to be on new players which is why I'm saying they should 86 (See Urban Dictionary) vendor fees or take them out on the back end so players are more inclined to keep items stocked without the fear of going in the red.
     
  32. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    I can agree to an extent. Sometimes however, it can be a problem for the much less popular vendor houses. I had a nice little vendor spot just outside the guard zone in fel Skara Brae. I'd sell stuff I would steal from players from time to time along with little other doo-dads.

    It was fine until they changed the vendor fees. Since I never really made a grand profit and since some items I'd get were expensive. I'd sell them at a reasonable price too, much less than those Luna vendors, much less. But still with the fees my profits were so slim it just wasn't worth having a vendor up. I'd have the item up and my only hope was that someone would come by and buy it before it drained too much gold in my bank. Ultimately I did drop my vendor, figuring my best hope was to simply spam at the bank.
     
  33. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,370
    Likes Received:
    720
    Agrees!!!!!

    Especially when they will be increasing the amount of gold in the game as loot gold sinks will be needed.
     
  34. :talktothehand: oh stop!


    There is no such "Free Market" design/definition ...
    The Ultima Online "economy"(heh!)
    is the >definition< of a Virtual Nonexistant economy.

    There are no "drains"
    How much Free standing water >should be< over a properly open "drain"?
    How much gp value can I store on a vendor? In my house? in my bank?

    :lol: more drains ... :lol::lol::lol:
     
  35. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    6,032
    Likes Received:
    145
    While you can't argue that the economy hasn't been messed up by dupers and the like, I don't think it is that bad and things seem to have stabilized.

    I only have a vendor on 3 shards. Great Lakes, Atlantic, and Legends.

    I only sell Imbuing Ingredients, SOTs, Power Scrolls, and Replicas.

    On a slow week I'll pull in ~20 mil combined, but if I actually play and 'do work' It is about 50. I actually find that I get better sales on Legends which is considered a slower shard.
     
  36. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,088
    Likes Received:
    45
    Therein lays the problem, of many.........being a lazy slug, and buying your pixels from websites, especially gold.

    When a good majority of common players, not your die hards, but the average joe/jane.......they don't believe in the stupidity of a grown adult, spending money like that.

    On the other hand, Atlantic/Luna, way too many vendors are of false advertisement. I, when I am desperate, go to Luna and shop only off sign posts.......Sorry, I have a real life and my current play time is limited.

    So, I agree as to what fine, and broken means, ......I can tell the difference.

    It's screwed up, and broken, and favors the percentage who are either die hard, on all the time players, or those who are weak and buy pixels......oh, transfers don't help either....

    Lastly, don't abbreviate.....as in MT, spell out the words. It shows much more sophistication, instead of being an incompetent slug.

    later
     
  37. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2007
    Messages:
    754
    Likes Received:
    150
    Aye, I know what you mean. Unsophisticated people abound around here. EC for Enhanced Client, UO for Ultima Online, MT for empty, Peeps for people, UHall for ??, MIB for Message in Bottle, SOS for Save our Ship.

    What is the world coming to?
     
  38. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I never said they can't tweak the system to match better, only that removing it is a bad idea.
     
  39. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    There needs to be drains, which was my point. To claim that constantly adding gold to the system with out removing any is a good idea, is ludicrous. That is, of course, to assume that we all want more people to play thus meaning new players, those who will not have all that accumulated wealth from the prior years of having gold put in and never taken out.

    To answer the two end questions, I can not accurately access such things. I would hope that the Developers, those who have such information and reasonable ability to discern, could come up with a value that keeps the market both stable and fair.
     
  40. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Messages:
    9,940
    Likes Received:
    1,708
    easy solution 1...gold sink castle in the malas stars....grandfathered to existing house......100k a ticket... unlimited tickets can be bought....kinda guessing 1-10 trillion per shard would be wiped out....and one person per shard would be the envy of all
     
  41. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Messages:
    9,940
    Likes Received:
    1,708
    and getting rid of vendor fees would be real bad as everyone would use vendors to store stuff at silly high prices...simply for more storage like people store bod books on vendors......or simply they would try sell stuff at sky high prices becuase there are no fees for doing so....lame idea
     
  42. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,260
    Likes Received:
    268
    Your very short sighted and need to go experience what it's like on some other shards.

    Vendor fees may not be an issue for a player such as yourself who has the money to toss around building a Musuem filled with Dread Horn Statuettes, Tormented Minotaurs etc. However I can assure you for new players and players who don't have 120/100 Crafters there are issues with vendor fees i.e. vendors not being stocked because of said vendor fees and vendor shops containing such items closing down because they go in the red.

    Go make a character on Balhae or some other shard from scratch and you'll know full well what I'm talking about. I can meet you there and let's see how far you get in a week or months time. Go get a good taste of it then come and chime in.

    It's easy to say there doesn't need to be any changes to vendor fees when you have been playing for a few years and built up your characters and coffers. Your not seeing the big picture. The focus regarding vendor fees needs to be on new players as well as keeping shops open that would otherwise close.

    If someone places items too high the item won't sell. An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Your notion that vendors fees will cause people to place items on vendors for so much it won't sell is a strawman.

    Sure people place items on an increased price to cover vendor fees. Bottom line is if it doesn't sell the price will come down. Should I toss out a list of items that when first released were sky high and over time dropped to a fraction of what they cost when they were first introduced?

    Supply and demand will dictate the cost of items being sold.

    People using vendor fees as storage has already been addressed by linking the vendors items to the house storage.
     
  43. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,260
    Likes Received:
    268
    Now this is actually a good idea!:thumbup1:

    I didn't spend a single gold piece on Magincia however for an oppurtunity for a Malas Castle I may go haywire and end up flat broke at the end of it all.
     
  44. Lord_Puffy

    Lord_Puffy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,009
    Likes Received:
    2
    What is rich, and what is poor?
     
  45. Lord_Puffy

    Lord_Puffy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,009
    Likes Received:
    2
    What ever happened to skill?
     
  46. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,260
    Likes Received:
    268
    I don't know what rich is; that's relative....

    However poor is a new player to UO hitting the create character button and logging in one of the UO towns.

    I consider myself a powergamer and a damn good one. I've played in the beta and off and on over the past 12 years.

    I know alot of tricks and shortcuts...what works and what doesn't when it comes to making gold in the game and advancing characters. And other things I won't even mention here on stratics. *Enough Bragging but it goes to prove my next point*

    For an experienced player such as myself who knows exactly what they're doing creating characters on a shard that doesn't have vendors stocked with basic supplies can create for a very slow going. Even vendors not stocking high end artifacts and other items is going to make it difficult before I'm ready to go conquer Peerless or Champion Spawns.

    I've always enjoyed creating characters and starting over but there are also times when I say to myself "this is a pain in the arse".

    Now for a new player to UO who doesn't know what they're doing I can only imagine a similar feeling x10 and perhaps only so much time expiring before some of them say "Screw this..this sux. I don't know what the hell I'm doing this game sucks!"

    Granted not all new players may have that experience but some may and that's not good for the game.

    Maybe...just maybe if that player would have been able to find some basic supplies he would have stuck around or maybe if he was able to find a vendor selling high end items that allowed him to do some peerless it would have sparked that players interest.

    I'm not saying things should be easy for new players but it shouldn't the difficulty shouldn't be compounded by players not putting items on vendors or closing up shops due to the current vendor fee system.

    What I am saying is I'm not seeing an influx of new players and for the good of the game we need to keep our eye on the "ball".

    More vendor shops throughout the game are better any way you cut it. Take the vendor fees out on the back end.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it this will most likely be my last post in this thread.
     
  47. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    1,502
    Likes Received:
    469
    There is a contradiction there though; you may be a powergamer, but the majority of new players I meet in game are not. They want to see and experience the content and socialize with other people. Neither of which requires powergaming as such... the problem they face is that none of us want to go and hunt Ettins with them. To play with us, we expect them to powergame.

    The cash issue, on it's own is actually pretty easy to solve; I tell them about the dynamic EM content, and tell them that if they get even a dispenser dropped item, it's worth 5m on Europa (where I play). The richer players will out of self interest feed some of the years of inflation and duping back down to them and allow them to catch up somewhat... but then the problem becomes they also get accelerated past the low end content by that cash, but now don't have the character skills; and so also have to powergame to raise their character to the levels required to hunt challenging creatures with the armour and artifacts they can be swimming in by the end of the first two weeks or so.

    Now I can show anyone how to get all the crafting they need after 2 weeks of evenings say. What I can't do is show them how to get taming to 120 if they want to go that route. Or, as you also mention, show them where non-existent vendors are for the much wider realm of items they will need to enjoy the game; I'm thinking of High Seas content in particular.

    So the real problem is not so much the economy, but the distortive effects it has on people's play style; you simply have to become like everybody else and end up with one of the small number of high end PvM characters as your main gameplay... mostly I see new players being encouraged to become Sampires. Removing the amount of gold in the economy won't affect this, because it's not market price that drives this dynamic, but who the veteran playerbase is. And that in turn is set by a Dev Team that is trying to keep us satiated with lots of new grindy things to do at high levels (Ter Mur books I'm looking at you!)

    What the game really needs is more cashless, not-skill-based, fun communal things to do. Something that will add a variety of ways to meaningfully spend time in game... because otherwise you will always, always get runaway item price inflation, as everything everyone does feeds into that inflation, just the currency will shift to what ever the most desired item is. Think Diablo 2 here, because that's the model Age of Shadows was based on; In D2. where the player base has only one model of gameplay, everyone is trying to build their characters up through items. But! There's an extremely low gold cap for everyone. Instead of limiting the price of items though, the currency moved to the item the community settled on as desirable; The Stone of Jordan. Things started being priced in SoJs. But these in turn require one particular play style; endlessly grinding out Baal Runs to get them, in order to buy items. And of course, the more people grinded, and the more SoJs people discovered, the more inflated in SoJ terms an item became... So it will be in Ultima Online too. Make people throw away gold for a Magincia house? Suddenly the house itself is going to be valued at the equivalent of all the time and investment required to get it. Follow THPs idea of a single house in Malas as the prize? People will only drop hundreds of thousands into it if they can leverage it into similar power and wealth elsewhere in the game... You've not reduced inequality and distortion into the market, just moved it elsewhere. Just as in Diablo 2, an attempt to add an alternative grind simply moved the "currency" from SoJs to the Runes that replaced it for character building.

    No, the aim should be to give people ways out of the market, and thus slow it down by not leaving every minute spent in game dependent upon it. People will still powergame, but the less of them doing it, the slower inflation moves.
     
  48. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,020
    Likes Received:
    430
    The major reason UO's economy is so screwed up can be attributed to two things: Duping, Scripting.
     
  49. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    But a change in the market is not entirely a bad thing. I agree with you on most points in your post, but let me ask you. With out current Player population, do you think things to do with little, or rather no, reward is going to get enough attention to actually do any good? My biggest....theory? or one could even call it a fear, is that as a whole the players do not want to be communal but in fact seclusive, and thus things that do not offer a worthy reward for their time will be left alone. I have just not noticed people actually striving to be communal, despite the out-spokeness for it on Stratics.

    But of course, but even then that is only part of the problem both originally and now.
     
  50. whoa Adol ! Kudos !!

    who the veteran playerbase is ...bada BING !!
    nailed it in one pass

    UO >is NOT< a game one can master in a few short months or years
    and there is an extremely high probability that the "elders" of 4+ years
    are a specific strain of OCD powergamers that /just can't/ take the time and/or patience
    to mentor a noob along ...

    Marvelous ... that maybe "the missing piece" for a six sided box.
    (a solid and complete container describing a "problem" )

    It maybe only in time for UOs epitath ...
    *shrugs*
    'tis enough for me ... I LIKE having the solution
    to convoluted riddles ... not really fair to call UO "convoluted" ... it is what it is
    and its survival, longterm ... really wasn't a riddle ... to begin with ...
    the common description is/was: UO as an "experiment"
    yeah right ... but given ^^that ... that experiment >>> is long long over.

    And the "riddle" is ... how has it lasted this long?
    ( by the way, an actual riddle ... is formed with a solution in mind ... NOT first the riddle and then the solution ... check it )

    *sets draft notes and bullets*

    whoa Adol ! Kudos !! :party: