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Economy and gold.. update needed

Discussion in 'UHall' started by aarons6, Nov 24, 2013.

  1. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    with everything costing so much gold.. and the fact that you can only have one house per account.. (my main shard is pac and i also play on atl) gold either needs to be redesigned to not take up any bank space (possibly making it just a number on your paperdoll? account wide maybe?).. or check vaulues need to be increased to 10m or even 100m.


    just to get a simple armor or weapon on atl i would have to throw out my entire bank box, and somehow make enough gold to max it out with checks.


    some items are even selling for more then a bank can hold.. ive seen a few weapons in the 200m+ range..

    im not 100% sure but if i had a vendor with gold, and i want to buy something from another vendor, does it take the gold from the vendor?
     
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  2. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    Nope, payment comes from youre bankbox, unless you have enough real gold in youre backpack for the pursuade.
    If you have check storage problems, make youre house public, place a few vendors, they can hold alot 2b++
     
  3. Jerec KTM

    Jerec KTM Journeyman

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    There has been some serious inflation going on over the years, and yeah, I think you are right by saying a ten million denomination check is in order.
     
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  4. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    im feeling handicapped because i never have enough space in my bank to get the items i want..
    i even wanted to sell something the other day i had, but i couldnt because i couldnt deal with the overflow of 1m checks :(
     
    #4 aarons6, Nov 24, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
  5. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    I know at one point they wanted to get rid of gold checks and make it an account wide number. They said something about that shortly after the 15th year website-re-do. It was in a big write up along with other future changes. When is a different story
     
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  6. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    So you are trying to tell us that SIMPLE armor and weapons are over 175M each. I guess I am selling the wrong things. Maybe I should just sell GM Tailor/Smith Armor and Weapons for 175M each.
     
  7. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    I don't know what the best solution is. I do, however, wish that crafting hadn't become so complicated and GM-made items still had value.
     
  8. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    something like this would be nice.. they dont even have to get rid of gold and checks..
    they could make it so when you drop gold or checks on bankers they get deposited in your account bank.
    then when you want gold or checks you just say withdraw or check like you do now and it comes out..


    but 10m checks are definitely needed also..
     
  9. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
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    Something does need to be changed, but then again these are the people who made it so you have to run back to the bank to break a check into gold so you can stable a pet instead of just taking it from the check like vendors do...
     
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  10. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
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    There are more important things in game to fix. Such as not letting people walk off the 2nd floor of Luna.
     
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  11. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    yeah whats up with that? when did they do that?

    its very annoying trying to hit those stairs just right, specially on a gargoyle flying.
     
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  12. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    So let me get this straight... You are complaining because your bank box can only hold 125 million gold, is that right?
     
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  13. WootSauce

    WootSauce Lore Keeper
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    Are you, Startle, suggesting that 125 million gold is a large amount of gold for a regular player?
     
  14. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    I don't know if Startle's thnking that, but I sure am.
     
  15. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I'm all for de itemizing gold but... yeah, I think 125m is a large amount for a regular player.
     
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  16. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    it may be a large amount, but..
    its not enough to buy anything good.. and if you live on another shard you cant have ANYTHING else in your bank but 1m checks.

    just log into Atlantic and start asking people to make you stuff, you will start seeing that 125 1m checks wont cut it.
     
  17. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    There is literally no way to possibly play this game on a regular basis and not have an absurd amount of gold unless your main objective during gametime is socializing with friends.

    Personally, I think the whole gold system needs to be scrapped for something new. There are so many people in game with billions of gold that it's just shocking and that number grows daily.
     
  18. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    And are you, WootSauce, actually suggesting that 125 million gold is NOT a large amount of gold for a regular player?
     
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  19. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    are you, startle, saying that "regular" players shouldn't be able to afford the more expensive stuff that cost more then 125 million gold?
    on my home shard, pac, i have tons of gold.. i can buy anything and everything i need..
    but on other shards i play, it seems that gold is a limiting factor on what i can do..
     
  20. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    I suppose it would mean what is defined as a regular player.

    I don't buy gold for RL and never have.
    I spend 10-15 hours a week in-game and that is if I log in everyday which I don't always do.
    I have one account.
    I don't dupe gold/items, nor do I cheat or con people.
    I spend my time buying, selling, stocking vendors, etc because that is what I enjoy doing. I don't usually attend EM events, PvM, PvP, RP, etc these days because I don't enjoy those things like I used to.
    Most of my time I spend in-game is solo and I don't belong to any guilds other than my own.

    Do I qualify as a regular player?

    Currently in liquified assets... I have around a billion gold. That's low for me.
    In physical assets? Much, much more. An' that is with regularly buying expensive items in-game and on rare occasions even selling billions of gold.

    I think there are many players who are in the game who don't play full-time who are quite comfortable financially. It really depends on how you spend your time and how experienced you are with your miniature economy. Gold is easy to acquire if you know your market... even for the average player. I don't like talking about how much "wealth" I have or don't have in-game. I'm sure I'm not the only one.


    That being said, I would love to see it tied to the account for a number of reasons.
     
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  21. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I have absolutely no idea what any of my items are worth - I don't judge things by gold-worth. I have never spent more than 30 million on anything, ever, and my bank balance - total account characters, has never exceeded 70 million and it only hit those dizzy heights recently, mostly it doesn't exceed 20. Most of what I spend goes on power scrolls.
    Not everyone plays the same way.
     
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  22. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
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    After playing this game for a year or so, I accumulated about 100 million in gold. Mostly selling consumables like petals, apples, dyes, seeds of renewal, and smoke bombs -and the occasional artifact. Now approaching my third year I usually have 200-250 million spread across my bank accounts. Is it billions? no, but I don't play for hours on end nor have I played for years and years with houses full of rares to sell. Maybe 4 or 5 hours a week for the last year. So I don't get how so many people seem to be broke all the time. There are a lot of guys/girls I have met in this game who seem never to have any money.
    I found the easiest way to 'make' money in UO is to avoid spending it on a bunch of junk I don't need/can't use.
     
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  23. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    100m is not a huge amount of gold anymore..it is obtainable quite easily actually..10-15 hours a week sitting in tram farming almost any High end Boss Mob will get you to to 100's of mild within 6-8 months unless you're extremely unlucky..and for those power gamers farming for 30-40 hours a week are the ones with an absurd amount of gold..something does need to be done, but let's face it..it's too little wayyy too late..


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  24. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    As I said I am all for making gold a number not an item. I would also be for a currency conversion, simply for cosmetic reasons.

    Luckily on siege inflation is drastically lower and it's rare that anything sells for more than 10m, so paying for stuff/storing gold isn't such a chore. But I can absolutely see it being annoying.
     
  25. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Or we don't increase cheques and banks. Merchants could just accept that they cannot charge more than a player can hold in their bank. If you extend either, the prices will shoot up even further. These prices exist because players are mad enough to find ways to pay them rather than laugh and walk away.

    Spending many hours a week farming gold to pay for these items is just insanity. I stopped following the UO arms race many years ago and I'm glad I did now. The thought of spending 10+ hours a week for months just to get a suit of armour... I'd sooner go back to an office job for those hours and collect an actual salary for it. There are so many better ways to spend that much time.

    Aside from a ring of elements I bought a few years ago, not one bit of equipment I use cost me 1mil or more. I know there are ways I can generate a lot of gold legally and quite easily, but if I spent a bank full of money on any suit of armour, I'd question my sanity. It wouldn't be a game any more ;)

    Wenchy
     
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  26. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Inflation isn't a result of player pricing. It's simply an inevitable outcome of an economy with a daily currency pool increase. Gold is constantly being created, and rary being destroyed so invariably the value of a gold piece drops. Items still have the same relative value, the value of currency has just changed.

    If you just let it go the relative value of items won't change, people will just be forced to find a new form of currency such as legacy tokens or something.

    All that is really needed is a currency exchange (including on monsters), as the problem of inflation is purely aesthetics and logistics.
     
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  27. whiterabbit

    whiterabbit Stratics Legend
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    goblins uses gold fer feetz warmers, wee deals in turnips noes in gold shineys
     
  28. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    This

    This has been asked a hundred times and the only theme of 'why not' has been people worried about duping. Honestly if there are ways to dupe checks - there isn't much difference of duping 100 1m checks 5 times or 100 5m checks.

    The time has come for 5m checks. That would remove the need for brokers for very large transactions like selling a castle on GL or Atlantic.
     
  29. Riyana

    Riyana Operations
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    I run an auction on Chesapeake. Even though I myself have never had a huge amount of liquid money, a better way to exchange large sums of money would be very helpful to me as an auctioneer (thus creating a better player event experience!).

    I think banks should work more like vendors for money management--it's silly that a vendor is a better way to store money than the bank. Having a more functional bank/currency trading system would make bank storage and trading simpler and get rid of empty vendors littering the land. Win/win!
     
  30. Lady CaT

    Lady CaT Seasoned Veteran
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    After 16 plus years gold has lost its shine. There comes a point when countless items stored in castles and keeps across many accounts and shards became pointless! The only person who ever saw the items most of the time was me! Cause lets face it most houses are just big bank boxes with rarely a soul other than the owner taking a look at them. And hey I can walk 10 steps to any of my neighbors and see exactly the same uber stuff displayed...lol. Oh wow my neighbors house went idoc, so now I can have twice the same items I already have...lol. So ya think hey I'll sell it all! Problem is most people have chest fulls of all the same items you do. And even if you do sell an occassional item, then what? More gold to store!!.....Yay me.. *shakes head* Then after 16 years of moving and storing the stuff for the billionth time it dawned on me! I would LOVE to have frickin empty bank boxes! And that's what I did...trashed it all on corpses..so it wouldn't accidentally end up in the abyss where some other poor doomed soul might pick it up and decide to store it. And now after 16 years I live out of a empty bank box, pretty much like the day I started UO. And I gotta say it feels great!

    So enjoy finding new ways to store and count your billions and billions cause... umm... everyone else really cares....no really they do! *laughs*

    P.S. This post isn't mean't to be directed at anyone person, meerly some observations of a longtime player.
     
    #30 Lady CaT, Nov 25, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
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  31. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
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    Buy savings bonds!!
     
  32. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    Wow... radical and wonderful at the same time. I kind of feel that way about the real world. Too much "stuff" to store and keep track of gets to be a drag, especially if you've had it so long you've forgotten why you're still holding on to it.
     
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  33. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I for one can understand and support your mentality, but I still think inflation eventually needs be dealt with. :)
     
  34. whiterabbit

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    da new ozog on alt libes ina da inn or camps, bank box bees berry sparse. really enjoying dis
     
  35. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    unfortunately there is no way to deal with the inflation.
    money passes hands from player to player.
    there are very little gold sinks.

    i would propose that almost every item you need to grind for, like resources, runic kits, things that have uses, be placed on npc vendors at a fair market value.. (this would also curb price gouging)


    that way if you need something instead of paying a player, you can give your gold to a npc.

    this would benefit slower shards.. as sometimes its impossible to get certain things on slower shards.
     
  36. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Well you can't stop inflation, but since unlike the real world the value of currency is immaterial, you CAN chop some zeros off of the back and make it more manageable, which is all that really need happen. I would also do a pass and examine all the ways players create currency and see if I could dial it back in the most abusable areas.

    I am 100% against putting things you need to work for on an npc. It kind of defeats the purpose of playing the game for no good reason. Its ok that inflation happens, it doesn't matter. The only reason it matters is because it makes money physically hard to deal with, which is an easily fixed problem.
     
  37. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    Which resources, like ingots, boards, and/or imbuing ingredients? All runic kits, maybe powder of fortification too? The latter would relegate BODs to near-uselessness. Both would mean many players discarding skills like mining and lumberjacking, pretty much everyone but scripters.

    From a pure cost perspective, I'd certainly benefit, being a consumer of far more things than I can get myself (this afternoon I bought out the couple dozen PoFs on a vendor). However, once the price is set lower than a typical player-charged price (removing any point to player production of what NPCs would start selling), there's the problem of determining what price to charge. Boards and ingots would have to undercut scripters to be successful, but since the production cost of scripting is very low, scripters could easily respond by dropping their prices. Thus determining any "fair market value" is much easier said than done.

    Or will NPC prices be set a little higher than player averages, because of their infinite supply, encouraging players to continue supplying? Again, it's difficult to determine which price is "fair," because they vary so much across shards. If there are no shadow ingots to be found on, say, Legends, would anyone there pay the 750 gold each that a current Atlantic vendor charges? What about 500 gold, or 250?

    Meanwhile this would hurt legitimate players who chop, mine and/or collect BODs and sell things. I've known players who weren't interested at all in fighting monsters or players, but they loved UO for crafting things, especially when maker's marks were introduced. Were David Ricardo alive today, he wouldn't be surprised in the least that comparative advantage applies to UO as well as real life. Though two players can be equal in gear and skills, the difference is in playstyle. Some players have a comparative advantage in monster hunting, others in PvP, yet others in a combination of resource gathering and pure crafting. That players supply so many things to each other is one of the greatest things about the UO experience, and I'll accept inevitable inflation as a trade-off.
     
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  38. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    this thread has gotten off track..

    there still is a problem with things costing more gold then you can carry..
     
  39. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    That suggestion, if implemented, would certainly drive an unknown number of players from the game, since some of us actually like tasks like resource gathering. And if everything you needed could be purchased off an NPC vendor, that would cut even more player interaction out of UO. Personally, I would hate to see that happen.
     
  40. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    they could still sell these items, just at whatever price the npc sells them for..
    so basically then you condone price gouging and scripters?

    there is no reason that 1 10 charge bottle of pof should be worth 250k-500k.. yet on atl i bet you that is all you will find. if you can even find any for sale at all..


    and the reason the prices are so high is because someone goes around and buys them all up, then puts them back on a vendor for twice what they bought them for..

    this does not help the economy at all.
     
    #40 aarons6, Nov 25, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  41. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    Of course I don't condone gouging and scripters. But your solution is no solution at all. Tell me, how many players would actively seek out other players to buy from or search for player-run vendors if they could get what they need from an NPC? Not too many, I'd wager.
     
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  42. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    the way the economy is going now is flawed..
    the money moves from player to player..
    all items that are resources that have uses that needs to be bought over and over comes from grinding. which is free to players.. just takes time..
    in a few years, we wont need 10m checks, we will need 500m checks..

    old money has no outlet.. it will just keep building up and up and up.. resulting in things getting more and more expensive.
     
    #42 aarons6, Nov 25, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  43. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    Of course the economy is flawed... *thinks about the real world and rolls eyes*

    As I said in an earlier post, I don't know what the solution is. But some of the suggestions I've read would only make things worse, in my opinion.
     
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  44. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    So to spite supposed scripters you will ruin the game for many many honest people? PoF costs so much because the currency is so devalued, not because people are gouging.

    How hard is it to make 10 million on atlantic. Not very I'm guessing.
     
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  45. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    The economy was flawed from day one. Any system where anyone can make currency and currency is rarely destroyed is gonna have serious inflation. But inflation in a fake world is unimportant. It's just numbers. Just lower the numbers by converting to a new currency and the problem is solved, until it needs to be done again 5-10 years down the road.

    The important element of the economy in UO is the value of items, not the value of currency.
     
    #45 Uvtha, Nov 25, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  46. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    this really has nothing to do with my original post.

    with money so easy to get, and the value of items so high, why cant we make 10m checks.. and be able to store gold in an account bank that has no limit.

    obviously the weight of gold is not keeping the inflation down. i would assume the 1m check limit was an attempt to try.
     
    #46 aarons6, Nov 25, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  47. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    Reflecting on the topic of the UO economy, I guess I view it with a slightly different attitude than some. I've played for many years, yet I've never been "rich" in the game. I just do what I enjoy, and much of what I enjoy in UO has nothing to do with how much gold or items I might have. If someone else has wealth as a goal, more power to them. Their wealth (or lack of it) has nothing to do with my enjoyment of this game.
     
    #47 old gypsy, Nov 25, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
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  48. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    As I said, we should. Though I would rather gold just be a number than be any check size. Just makes it easier to deal with, and less easy to abuse via cheating.
     
  49. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Thats the beauty of a virtual world. You don't HAVE to do anything. Never get hungry or sleepy or cold. Never get sick or old and are functionally immortal. You could wonder the woods in a death robe for years if you cared to. Exactly why inflation doesn't really matter. It's just obnoxious.

    I also have never had much money. I do have a bunch of rares and whatnot... but I got them all by playing. Most I have ever had is 20m, which I got just a month ago. Half gone by now. :p
     
    #49 Uvtha, Nov 25, 2013
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  50. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    You're the one who proposed a solution to what you say is a problem. I gave you an answer pointing out the consequences.
     
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