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Effect of +Skill equipment on skill gains

Discussion in 'UHall' started by scynx, May 31, 2014.

  1. scynx

    scynx Visitor

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    I'm currently pushing my tamer towards his GM Taming and I was wondering how skill equipment effects skill gains. Right now I'm around 91 taming and I got a bracelet with +7 taming, this would allow me to control a nightmare so I could get rid of my successful tames faster (my magery is fairly poor).

    If I were to wear this item, my taming would sit at 98. Does this mean I'll gain even slower because my modified skill is higher now, or does equipment not effect skill gains in that manner?
     
  2. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

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    Yes, skill jewelry and items do affect your skill gains. You gains are based on your apparent skill, not real skill. However, this comes in handy at times because it allows you to tame animals/monsters that you couldn't otherwise.

    In other words, if your gains have really slowed down at y our current real skill, you can move onto more difficult tames and gain once again. When training, I use a combination of skill jewelry to find the sweet spot; +2/+5/+10 and +15 jewelry.
     
  3. RockoNV

    RockoNV Seasoned Veteran
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    This. I would also add: if you are able to level with a minimum of support skills, your gains will be a bit faster as well (i.e. taming, lore magery.)
     
  4. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    It will affect your skill gains - yes, slower them down and make GGS come slower.

    It is not adviced to equip items for to be able to tame higher critters, as it is harder to tame it. You get steady gains of polars and white wolf to around GM. From 90's bull's will take you to 116, or you can go to ki rin's from around 103-105 for steady gains vs time spent per animal to tame. You will only gain on success - so too hard monsters will give less gains in time spent on training the skill.
     
  5. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    I believe most of these answers are incorrect. Your gain rate is based on base skill. Adding or subtracting skills via equipment changes what you can do to get gains. For example:

    With 20 base magery, if you equip +45 magery items you would have a total of 65 magery skill and could cast level 5 mage spells to get gains, however, you will still have a gain rate equal to that of 20 magery skill. On the other hand, if you 110 magery and equip a -29 mage wand you end up at 81 magery and can cast level 7 spells for gains, but your gain rate will still be that of 110 skill. The caveat to this is that by reducing the mana required to cast the appropriate spells to get gains, you can cast them more often thereby increasing your chance for gains (if it takes 200 attempts to get a gain at 110 magery you can get through those 200 attempts faster even though the gain rate of 200 attempts remains the same).

    If you apply this to taming, it works the same way. When I trained taming I added skill items to tame Cu Sidhe for the off chance of a rare/valuable color while working my skill at the same time. Just make sure that whatever you are trying to tame for gains is in the roughly 50%-60% success chance range for your modified skill and you will get gains. If you raise your skill too high via equipment for what you are trying to tame it will slow you down.
     
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  6. scynx

    scynx Visitor

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    Thanks for the answer, pretty interesting. One thing came to mind though, what happens if my modified skill is at 100 and I don't have a powerscroll yet. Will I still gain because my base skill is not there yet, or would it stop?
     
  7. RockoNV

    RockoNV Seasoned Veteran
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    I believe the answers given to you so far are all correct. Well, mostly. There is not a device that will lower your taming unless you are getting hit by a satyr and if that is the case it is only useful for a short period of leveling. Even so, it would be more of a time sink than it is worth.

    So......if you are wearing jewelry that raises your skill, tame the 50-60% range for best skill gain. 50-60% of your modified skill. If you are taming 50-60% of your real skill but are modified, then you will be wasting time. Your skill gain is effected by your modified skill, speed of repetition and GGS.
     
  8. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

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    You will still gain, although probably at a slower rate than if you had no jewelry on.
     
  9. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

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    This isn't always true. Since at high skill levels you only gain when you succeed, your best gain rate is usually in the 40%-60% success rate. I use jewelry with all skill training, not just taming, to get best gains.

    But, do whatever works for you.
     
  10. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
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    This just got me wondering a side note, do skills rise any faster in fel than tram?
     
  11. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    is that right?
    i know ive gained off of fails on taming at higher end, but now that i think about it those are probably GGS tames so maybe that isnt covered by the same rule.
    but i know that magery you can gain off of fails, so why couldnt you off of any other skill?
    ive never really watched that close.
     
  12. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    no, only thing you gain in fel is immediate re-spawn and higher payout of resources (leather, meat ect)
     
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  13. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    in my experience in training i gain at the same rate with or without buffy baubles on.
    the baubles just give me a bit more freedom to tailor my skill level to what i want to train on.
    so when i want to buff up so i can train on ridgebacks i can.
    if i want to buff up so i can train on cu's i can.
    if i wanna take everything off and go tame great hearts i can.

    so my vote is that it dosnt matter.
    but then at the end of the day we are all guessing.
    unless the person responding to your question has the "VIP - Dev Team" under their name take all advice with a grain of salt.
     
  14. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

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    You will gain the GGS on a failed attempt, and rarely get gains outside of GGS on failed attempts. For the most part, best gains are in the 40% to 60% success rate, and some skills require that you be within +/-25 skill of the target's skill (such as tactics).

    However, and there are lots of howevers, skills that have dependent skills (taming, barding, etc.) are greatly influenced by the co-dependent skills. For example, it is much more difficult to get gains in discord with 120 Music skill than at 100 Music skill. This is where jewelry especially comes in handy, letting you move up a notch in difficulty and get better gains.

    But, you don't need to use skill jewelry, and they can inhibit gains if you are using them on too low a level target.

    If it was easy, it wouldn't be UO would it.
     
  15. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    It is right you gain best in 40-60% success range. But - a general rule, is as long you can fail you can gain. My experience with training taming, is stick to where you can fail. When the fail rate is too low, I jump higher.

    I have completed quite a lot of tamers up till 110 taming, and - it is doable to go 50-110 taming in 5 days. For that, - I had only taming and lore on the toon and minimum of magery. I did no jewelry boost, hittet polars and white wolf's till around 90. Then Bulls till I hit 105 and ki-rin's from there in ki-rin passage...with a 2nd acc helping to drag off the paragons.

    If you boost your taming with jewlry, you only go to a higher critter that is more difficult to tame. It is no sence in that - as it will not benefit you. You will gain what so ever according to your success rate - not more often cuz it is a higher creature. The critters cover its all for you to avoid doing that and gain on easier pets. For bulls, you can gain untill you are 116. I did my last tamer on bulls till 110, no hazzle - and the gain frame is about the same as with ki-rins.

    Besides, training other skills - the chance of gain the lower your skill are is higher. Take magery...equip -29 mage wand and you gain instantly all the way till 60's.. drop wand go get discoed, and equip it again...and you continue gain in same speed - take you all to 80's in a hr.. That you can not do with normal training.
    The gains are based on your modified skill, and how high it is...the higher - the harder.
     
    #15 Mandrake of DF, Jun 1, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2014
  16. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    The gains are based off your base skill. What you can do to gain (ie cast/tame) is based off your modified skill. What matters for what you can gain on is success chance. With or without modified skill you want your success chance in the 40-60% range. Higher skill through modifiers does not mean its harder, your gains will remain the same, you just have to change to a critter that has a 40-60% chance based on the higher skill.
     
  17. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    the +skill system in the game is a SHAMBLES, there are hidden features as to what works on "REAL" skill and what works with skill with jewlery and items etc. This notion of "REAL" skill needs to go.

    The one exception i think it's acceptable for a the game to check your "real" skill is when in stat loss, you don't want your pets to go wild when you die and are in stat loss.
     
  18. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    it is NOT based on your base skill - but with your modified skill and what you are able to tame within that 'max gain ratio in that skill level'.

    So is most skills
     
  19. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    This ^. You can gain skill faster while Discoed than you can when not Discoed, even if you're training with a 50% success chance on both. A Crystal Ball of Knowledge will tell you your approximate chance to gain, with Optimal being the best. Optimal skill gains at 60 skill, will come more frequently than Optimal skill gains at 80 skill. Disco/+Skill Equipment works for this.
     
  20. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    The only way you gain faster is if you can increase the frequency of attempts like with magery casting faster spells that require less mana.

    Taming polar bears @ 50% success chance with no + skill equipment gets the same gains as taming Cu with + skill equipment @ 50% success chance if you tame them at the same rate.