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Elemental Resists

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Turdnugget, Mar 19, 2009.

  1. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    At GM Magic Resist i've got 40 in all elemental resists...when I put on a vet cloak/robe giving +6 Physical resist, my elemental resist still stays the same. If I do the same on a character with 0 Magic Resist, I get +6 Physical resist and it shows on my resist bar.

    Why is that? Shouldn't there be some kind of bonus for actually having resist besides the ability to resist poison more often, less time on paralyze etc etc...

    You should be able to build from the 40 base elemental resist if you have the actual skill...

    Anyone know why this is? Why it actually shows the +resists with 0 magic resist and doesn't show up with GM resist+ until after you have at least a few items on...
     
  2. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    The resists from magic resist do not stack with armor.

    Have we reached a point in the power inflation of the game where this should be re-examined? I'd still be nervous with what it might make possible, but it might make an interesting debate.
     
  3. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Nekkid 70's mages that have to carry regs FTW!


    :yell:
     
  4. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Just curious why it's that way...

    I can be just as effective without magic resist, saving myself skill points for something else gimp.

    Other than a few minor spells, that can be overcome by other in-game means, magic resist is useless. The only character I have resist on is my PvP mage. And that's only because I don't like getting poisoned every second...I could roll w/out it and just stack up on cures/apples etc...

    Just think it's kinda silly that after they eff'd up Magic Resist and Magic Reflect like they did, they haven't given Magic Resist any kind of love.

    I don't see why base Elemental Resist with MR shouldn't stack with armor resists...it'd be a heck of a lot easier putting together better than mediocre suits that don't cost a crapload of gold. Mages have gotten the shaft year after year...why not give a reason to have resist?
     
  5. RichDC

    RichDC Guest


    Fixed the first part for you but agree with the second.
     
  6. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Every time I see a statement like this, I go to uo.com, go to the guild rosters, pull up some of the top guilds and look at the average skills.

    I find it interesting that what you call a "useless" skill still manages to be one of the top most commonly carried skills of most guilds.

    (that said, I don't use it much myself - I prefer to just avoid getting myself targeted by spellcasters)
     
  7. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    You obviously dont PvP much then...Youll halways get hit with magic, but for most its pointless...pots trap boxes petals apples all negate the need to have magic resist, most pure mage temps keep it especiall duelers
     
  8. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Never have, never will :)
     
  9. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Actually the more I think about it...

    Crafting a super high mod lrc suit would be ENTIRELY too easy if MR resists were allowed to stack with suit mods.

    That said, its lack of love ever since AoS, puts it in line for something during an overall balance pass, mage skill or not on the template.

    I would have kept it on my dexxer happily as it took the longest of all my skills to gm back in the day, but I got super tired of getting cursed out of my armor and parad/poisoned even at 110 in skill. Could have been a function of a lower int score though.
     
  10. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Most of the people who run with resist, are mages, having resist on a mage template helps not get poisoned as much and affected by other spells like EO, Curse, Paralyze, Corpse Skin etc...

    All which can be countered. It's just easier for mage template to have it, so they're not affected as much... Since with a mage your primary healing/curing is done by casting which can be interrupted. Whereas with a warrior of any sort, you can easily get around not having resist due to boxes/petals/apples/pots/bandages. All of which aren't really interrupted in your healing/curing process. Therefore, not as necessary on a dexer template.

    I've only seen a few dexers who actually run with resist.

    It'd be nice if we could get some Dev feedback and quite possibly some love for the actual skill. Make it more useful...
     
  11. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    While true, I think it would level out the playing field. People wouldn't have to spend 20+ mil on a single piece of armor to get LRC/MR/LMC/Resists all on the same piece of armor.

    It's ridiculous the price of some armor people are asking for...this way you wouldn't have to worry about spending insane amounts of money for just a single piece of armor.

    It'd give mages a boost in that they could actually put together a well rounded suit and compete with the rest of UO PvP...at a lot less of a cost than what it currently is.
     
  12. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Almost 200mil on my necros suit and still building :(

    About 50mil on dexxers and pretty much set!
     
  13. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    That's just messed up...care to post your mods?

    It's far easier for a dexer to build a suit than a mage, unless the mage plans on going w/out LRC.
     
  14. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    That IS just messed up! What about factions gear and new wearable replicas?

    The thought of spending that much money to allow for successful pvp is just anathema to me and the main reason I don't allocate more of my time playing where lots of other people play.
     
  15. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    It aint even that good,

    2/6casting (obviously)
    100%LRC (obviously)
    45ish LMC
    20%sdi
    6mr (8with focus)
    5hpr (9with focus)
    49%dci

    Oh...and dont forget 291luck!!! (or is aof 400luck i cant even remember now!)

    Think thats about it, the money comes from inquis about 30mil, folded steel glasses 8mil and then about 10verite hammers maybe the same aggapite and one val(over the months its taken to get this far).

    Thinking about it i probs should have just bought armour pieces rather than making my own :(
     
  16. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Im not in factions, if i was i could have such a sweet suit it would be sick!!!

    +the only replica that really helps is the lt's sash...at 40mil
     
  17. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Well, faction items can help... but not everyone enjoys playing factions. If they were to get rid of speeder programs/scripts... then more people i'm sure would do factions.

    It's no fun to die to someone, go into stat, and not even know wtf the person is doing to you because they're moving so fast.

    Replicas don't really help w/suits at all... only the sash would be helpful, but even then it's going to break someday.

    But you need to have those kind of high end items to compete in PvP in today's UO item based warfare.

    You can't just take a barbed runic, make one of each armor piece, get an invasion bow, and go out and compete against another archer who has spent millions on runic crafted armor/weapons.

    I just think it'd be nice to have MR give something other than being able to withstand a few spells (which can be overcome by other means) and actually allow you to fill your suit with better mods and not have to worry about having mods + resists and spending millions per piece of armor.
     
  18. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    Verite Platemail Mempo

    Exceptional
    Weight: 3 Stones
    Mana Regeneration 2
    Lower Mana Cost 8%
    Lower Reagent Cost 19%
    Physical Resist 10%
    Fire Resist 8%
    Cold Resist 20%
    Poison Resist 21%
    Energy Resist 5%
    Mage Armor
    Strength Requirement 50
    Durability 173 / 255

    48,000,000 Gold

    Example of an armor piece for sale on the inflated market of Atlantic...Mages have to worry about medable armor, so mage armor is a requirement. On top of that, they need LRC, LMC and MR... granted this mempo has 3 very important mods, and pretty good resists...48million gold for ONE piece of armor...

    If Elemental Base resist stacked w/armor resists... people wouldn't have to worry about spending their life savings for one piece of armor just to be able to compete.

    All i'm asking/wanting is for a better reason to have the actual MR skill and some love for it + mages.
     
  19. onthefifty

    onthefifty Guest

    i sold my sash for 70m on chessy :D
     
  20. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    whoa - just a sec - time out.

    I thought we'd already just covered this - it is very useful already. If it wasn't useful, people wouldn't carry it. But lots of people do carry it - far more than carry most other skills ... so doesn't that logically imply it should be lower on the priority list for a buff?

    I want to lose this argument, but I only want to lose it to a well-constructed proposition
     
  21. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    hmmmm so in addition to resisting debuffs something scaled like elemental resists -phys at something like +5/50, +10/100, +15/120?

    It would have to be small but meaningful, what I have above is 40 free at gm and 60 free at 120, I'm not even sure I would sign off on that, but it might make more sense than 70 necro, 60 weaving on my dexxer and give me back ten points to 120 both bush and parry w/o jewels.

    *shakes head*Ugh, more coffee
     
  22. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    MS I think weve moved beyond discussion of the skill all by itself and entered some wider realm of skill vs item < skill+item(s) that I myself have not quite successfully made the leap on. But if we are discussing how to make the skill more relevant in keeping with making pvp more accessible to new players by lowering overall cost associated with getting started.

    And, ugh, well, I have to say that I'm still really hung up by the comment you need 200 mil for a decent necro suit that is "not all that great". I doubt Ive managed to earn 200 mil in my entire UO career.
     
  23. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    My quote...
    You see, it is useful, in certain situations, I agree. But overall, having the actual skill only slightly benefits the mage compared to a dexer. A mage needs it while fighting a mage otherwise it makes life a lot harder on them as their main form of healing/curing is by casting, which can and will be interrupted. A dexer can easily counter Strangle/Poison/Curse/Paralyze w/out the use of any magic resist at all.

    It's far easier to make a dexer suit than a mediocre mage suit. Allowing base elemental resists from the magic resist skill would allow mages to be on the same level as dexers with regards to making suits.

    It's a lot easier to find dexer armor with LMC/MR/Stamina/HP etc etc with overall good resists than it is for a mage to find Medable/LRC/LMC/MR with overall good resists.

    I've seen more mages run with resist more than any other template, due to the fact they rely so much on casting to counter spells and need the resist to take less of a penalty from those spells.

    Even if you had 40 base elemental resist and they allowed say 20 of that base to stack with armor instead of having to get the full 70 from armor and resist not giving any kind of armor/elemental resist bonus, I think that'd help mages obtain better suits w/out having to give their first born.

    Maple, i'm not trying to say that Resist is entirely useless. It's true that a good number of people run with resist who PvP, the majority being mages... why?

    Resist helps vs. time being paralyzed...120 resist you're only para'd for a second or so, whereas without resist you sit there for ages paralyzed... which can be countered with a trapped box (IE: resist isn't necessary when you can just pop a box)

    It helps vs. Poison. You resist more the higher your resist. At 0 resist you get poisoned everytime... something a mage who relies on casting and gets interrupted doesn't want... can easily be countered with cure pots.

    Pretty sure resist helps vs. curse/corpse skin... which can be countered with apples/potions.

    Now with 0 resist and an all 70's suit i'm going to take the same damage from a Exp/FS as I would had I 120 resist and a full 70's suit. What's the point of having resist, if I'm not a mage, if I can counter just about every spell thrown at me? What is the benefit to a non-mage chr, who isn't spell reliant on healing/curing/defending/offensive attacks to have resist if the spells can be countered?

    Unless they nerf said items... there isn't a need for a non-mage template, in my opinion to have resist on their template.

    Why not make resist MORE beneficial?
    IE: Allowing you to stack a certain % of your base elemental resist from having the actual skill to your armor. Thus giving a bigger benefit to the mage. People always talk about mages getting the shaft publish after publish... this is just an idea I had to make things a little better for mages.

    How often have you crafted/found a piece of armor that you said, "Oh man this would be so sweet on my mage!!! ... if only it had LRC"

    It's time the devs made certain skills MORE useful again. Don't get me wrong, they're useful, but not AS useful as they once were.
     
  24. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    But my philosophy when I wonder what skills needs a buff/nerf is to look at what % of players are currently carrying the skill ... the more that have it, then I figure either the more fun, powerful or useful it is already. So it's hard to convince me that it needs to be more beneficial when a large % of people already consider it beneficial enough to put on their crowded templates.

    (as for equipment, my standards are likely far lower than yours - when I make a suit for my mage, I take a spined runic, some spined leather and make leather armor until I have a 100%LRC suit ... the style of play I use, I don't need anything more than that on a mage)

    (but on the question of resists stacking - I do like the idea of a small percentage applied after armor (say +1 per 20 points of resist), but the rest before as now? As for making it more relevant to PvP, well, I'll stay out of that discussion)
     
  25. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    There is also a big difference between duels and field fighting.

    Yes most big guilds use MR on their characters, but part of that is throwback from the old days.

    Also what you are missing is that most templates that leave MR off are dexer templates, not mage templates.

    And yes; trapped boxes, apples, petals, potions have pretty much made Magic Resist useless.

    What a waste of engineering resources to change part of the skill and make it to where you get 40 resists in your elemental resists yet it doesn't stack with armor. So in the end you still need to get armor that brings you in the 70's and above in elemental resists thus negating the fact that you get +40 for having MR.

    The only word that comes to mind is ...... well I don't want to get banned from here or offend those of the population lacking in cranial capacity.
     
  26. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    Resist is useful. If you get mana vamped as a mage that's it, there is no offence or defense for you.

    Rather than buffing it, I think it's fine the way it is. They should change other things. For example trap boxes should do static damage. If you want to play with zero resist that's fine, but there should be some downside to it. If a box went off for 20 damage it would change a lot of templates to get resist and be less gimp.
     
  27. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    Magic resist is fine in that aspect of the default resists it gives. They don't need to stack with armor resists. But, I've always felt that something about resist needs to be changed or all of the items that allow people to negate having resist on their template should be fixed. Trapped boxes are major when examining this issue; they should only work once and then the player has to use a different one or re-trap it. The infinite uses that trapped boxes have nowadays creates major issues and allows many people to play ridiculous templates that don't have resist. That is my 2 cents.
     
  28. deadite

    deadite Sage
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    I think MR should definitely stack with armor. Yeah, it might make building a suit a little easier, but it still takes time to get the bonuses you want outside of just hitting the 70 mark.
     
  29. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    GM Resist = +1 All Resists
    110 Resist = +2 All Resists
    120 Resist = +3 All Resists
     
  30. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    Drools at prospect of blessed kasa a vet robe and mabe 2 insured items to 70's out a cha hehe though i would still need 45 dci ext... hmmm would be nice but i don't know lets think of pro's and con's in todays market. hmm but i still need 100 lrc so and mega mana regen +++++++ so i guess would be nice to have.


    I say yes we are all getting 70's suits with 100 lrc anyhow now days be it via collection rewards or val hammer made armor..

    But i would also like what someone suggested a few weeks ago about pets getting the boost to resists also would be fun to have some lesser pets that might be able to take a few hits rather then die every time you try to use any.

    As a pets resist spells go's up its resists go up might make a good change in power levels of some pets i would love to take a flock of birds with me on some of my characters.

    This sort of change would also go nicely with the idea behind imbued armor as it stands now i am sure most will only imbue weapons for dexxers / archers. The max 5 mods then needing to enhance after imbue makes the armor except for maybe tamers kinda useless.. I guess it all depends how rare the resources to imbue are.
     
  31. It's just as ridiculous that people feel they need to pay that much to compete. This is not a good reason to change the way Magic Resist works, just so people can have a cheaper armor.
     
  32. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Your exactly right... other than the fact that it is almost useless and that the +40 AR you get from it at GM+ skill level is 100% useless.

    Or the fact that it makes certain dexer and taming templates almost invincible because they drop MR and use trapped boxes, pots, petals and apples for another skill.

    Other than that you are completely right :coco:

    Please keep in mind that I am strictly referring to PvP in Fel. This has nothing to do with how resist works in Tram.
     
  33. Other than you last statement (which is totally off base - certainly you aren't suggesting resist should work differently in Felucca than Trammel?? :coco:) I agree with the rest of it. THOSE I think are good reasons to make changes, NOT because people are crying about how much they are paying to build a suit of armor.
     
  34. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    This used to be true, but then they came out with Mana Draught consumeable.
     
  35. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    I don't think this would be bad. Nothing major, but an incentive to actually have resist.

    Don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to complain about how much it costs to build a suit to compete... if you think having a nice suit doesn't matter in PvP... then you're smoking something.

    From what I said earlier...
    They've made UO so item dependent to compete...
    I haven't spent millions on any of my suits, but if I don't have near all 70's with 30+ LMC and some MR then i'm going to get jacked up one side and down the next. End of story. Can't compete w/out items. Thanks EA.

    Give people a reason to have resist.

    You can't just take mediocre armor out to fight and expect to live to tell about it. In PvP you need more than just 100% LRC. Unless you're a necro using wraith form, you're gonna run out of mana pretty quick and be a sitting duck.

    I wish they'd revert Magic Reflection back to what it was... kinda lame that the spell doesn't even do what the spell name is.
     
  36. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    No I don't think it should be different in Tram, but it's everyday use is different. And the impact on the community isn't as big as it is on the PvP community in Fel.
     
  37. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I may be wrong but I think that if they made all PvP templates require magic resist to compete, it would ruin all the uber templates that people play to give them an advantage.

    I think EA is scared that a lot of kids would quit because the game is now more balanced.

    I may also be wrong here, but in my opinion mainly advanced players play mages and newer players play dexers. Point and click is way easier than playing a mage.
     
  38. Turdnugget

    Turdnugget Guest

    It would eliminate a lot of gimp templates that can get by without the need for MR due to other in game means.

    The game has also evolved into some of the lamest field tactics ever.

    Back in the day people weren't worried about para ganking someone or para/efielding... which is a big hit today.

    There is a fair share of new players who play mages too. And advanced players who players who play dexers.
     
  39. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    True.

    But its infinitely easier to play a dexer in this game while the same cant be said about magery.
     
  40. Green Meanie

    Green Meanie Guest

    resists is fine as is items are excedenly ez esp if you join factions. There only going to get ezier with the release of SA. For example if i had 44 base resists from my 120 *Edit*resists i coudl build a suit with the following 17mr 40 lmc 20 sdi 2/6 casting 22 HPI 34 manna increase 9 hpr 51 dc 100% lrc. This is all based of real items i have. Most of witch i wouldnt touch for pvp becouse its mr 2 hpi 4 mi8 lmc 8 lrc 20 no resists to be heard of.

    As far as fixing trap boxes im all for it but first bring the para time down to 3 secs for no resists and make it stackable and spamable from weapons. If im prepaired to accept the other draw backs of no resists 1 5th level spell shouldnt be the only reason i take the skill.

    as it is now that faction bandaids are fixed you can reaplie almost any curse and lets not forget there is no defence vs manna vampire.
     
  41. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    I believe the down time on those are some where between 10-30min.
    That isn't good enough to play with no resist. It would be one big spell extra, so I still stand by my mana vamp crippling a mage with zero resist, while not doing the same to a dexer. A dexer will still have damage output and the ability to heal all without using mana.
     
  42. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Are we seeing the return of the tank mage with tactics, weap skill and mana leech? I haven't.
     
  43. Not true at all... if they made it so MR gave me all 60's or all 70's resist, I would use that skill for PvM and drop back to cheap armor with great buffs but low resists. If it affects one it affects the other, and many if not most PvP players also PvM. Have to listen to both sides of the arguments when making changes like these.
     
  44. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    You should go back and re-read.
    My statement is aimed at resist vs no resist for a mage and a dexer.
    Try again.
     
  45. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Actually I want MR to revert back to the way it was before AoS. So technically EA made the change not me.

    Also I am not saying to increase the elemental resists when you have 120 MR.

    I am saying that it was a dumb idea to have made it to where you get +40 to the elemental resists.

    +40 is as pointless as saying that if you have 120 hiding you will succeed at eating food every time you try to eat.


    Also


    You can defend against para spam.. its called magic resist.

    Dont even start to complain about it being a 5th level spell when so many dexer use chiv which only requires 80 skill points to use.

    Also you say one 5th level spell shouldnt be the only reason to take the skill, but, you dont mention how the dexer gets the extra 120 skill points over a mage by not using the skill.

    Dexers take no penalty for playing their template, while mages do.

    To defend against a dexer we need a weapon skill so we use a -20 mage weapon. This causes us to fail occasionally at 7th and 8th level spells Yet we still cant do special moves with them if I have 120 tactics in place of MR.

    A dexer doesnt have to use a certain type of weapon or item or even skill to defend against a mage, like the mage needing the -20 mage weapon to compete.

    Dexers just have their template and items which are usually HCI. DI, SSI, HLD, Hit Spell, Stam, and then spam whatever their favorite special is. Let alone the fact that a dexer can hit you on the run, while a mage cant.

    We can have our paralysis resisted, yet dexers special para moves can not be resisted even at 120 MR.

    A mages heal spells can be interrupted to where they have to recast it. A dexers bandaid heals can be slowed down by a fraction, but not interrupted to where they have to re-bandaid themselves.

    Dont forget that the dexer can run and heal at the same time, a mage cant.

    Basically a Dexers armor and skills can be used to defend against either a mage or another dexer. Where a mages armor and skills can be used to defend against other mages, but to defend against dexers we need to change things up.. we cant use the same temp or armor/items.
     
  46. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    That isn't exactly true. Paralyzing blow after AOS works at a lesser degree than a mages paralyze spell. Resist makes it a useless move. This however is a developer oversight when going from UOR to AOS. Paralyzing Blow suppose to last 3 seconds PvP and 6 seconds PVM. Yet it is now based on mages paralyze spell say at 50 skill at best.

    Nerve strike is set at 2-3 seconds
    Riding Swipe - 4 seconds? Seems longer, but haven't tested it in some time.

    With the exception of trap boxes, Paralyze spell is very effective with those with no or little resist. Those that invest in Resist should be able to resist the spell.
     
  47. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    These are what i was referring to. Compared to a mages para spell that doesn't even take effect against 120 MR.

    Agreed, but they should remove trapped boxes from the game.
     
  48. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    If they took boxes away there would be no counter to EO para. I think that would be unbalanced. That's why static damage on boxes should come into play. IE ~20 damage per time you open the box. It would still be viable against EO para. However if you have zero resist you would have to be a lot more careful because you could kill yourself on it if you were using it with no reguard.
     
  49. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Totally OT here, very nice piece likely from the recent influx of val hammers...but overpriced...and I hate mempos...they look hideous...
     
  50. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I would be ok with that as long as a trapped box will release every kind of para or nerve strike type stun in the game and not just certain types.

    Personally I think that EO should be tied more to resist to where if you have 120 MR it should last 1 second if that.

    Traped boxes is a bandaid to a much larger problem.

    Skill and spell balance is the answer.