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EM Drop Methods

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Smoot, Jul 14, 2014.

?

Which drop style do you think is best for UO EM events

  1. totally random. any character with looting rights has same chance. more characters = best chance

    31.3%
  2. damage / healing based. Players are encouraged to develop their characters/gameplay competitively

    7.5%
  3. half and half. everyone has a chance, but those who play the best have a slightly better chance

    22.5%
  4. everyone drop everytime. every single character at an event recieves a momento

    38.8%
  1. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    I dont know UO code, but i dont see why the EM drop system has to be black and white. Would it be too difficult to make a system that rewards effort / character development / gameplay / specific gear choice while also allowing for those not interested in making competitive characters to have a chance for a drop?

    I voted for option #3.

    in this system i would have 2 drop checks.
    one for top damagers
    one for random
    percentage of how many drops go into each check would have to be decided. it could be 30/70 50/50 or totally different at each event

    everyone would be open to both checks but limited to 1 item per character (couldnt recieve an item from both checks),

    more advanced characters / players would be rewarded for their effort
    anyone even a newer player still has a chance.

    everyones happy.

    (nevermind, everyone will never be happy but i think its a system that makes sense)

    ***Disclaimer*** I realize that stratics polls have absolutely no meaning whatsoever

    So it appears to be exactly a 50 / 50 split as of today, 8/12 between people who prefer totally random (more characters = best chance #1 choice) to best chance being performance dependent (higher damage / healing = better overall chance on 1 fully developed character - a combination of #2&#3 choice)

    Note: I am dismissing the number 4 choice (everyone drop every time) because its not really a valid or realistic option considering the history of EM events / Rare-collector style of gameplay :)
     
    #1 Smoot, Jul 14, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  2. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    From what I recall when the system was fixed not too long ago, as it works now everyone on the list has a chance. That list is determined by damage dealt, damage received, and damage healed.

    If you can't do something at events with a pretty good level of effectiveness, you still can't get a drop.

    Here is the link: http://www.uo.com/article/Publish-Origin-and-Izumo-Today-3172014

    I did not answer the poll. I merely thought it prudent to respond with some factual information about what the current drop system actually was before people responded with ideas to change it.

    -Galen's player
     
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  3. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    This **** again?

    Jesus
     
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  4. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    Really smoot? Another thread?
     
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  5. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    yes. i assumed it was obvious that all 4 options require looting rights. option #4 wouldnt really matter if looting rights were required or not tho. all items would be relatively worthless numbers-wise, only would hold value if specific items were more attractive than others.
     
    #5 Smoot, Jul 14, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
  6. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    its the fad of the week, what can i say :) and i honestly do believe a better system could be made than the one we have now, or what it used to be.
     
  7. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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  8. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    I pick answer (E). 90% of the chance drops go to only accounts that have placed a house on that shard.
     
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  9. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Good thing Nails has a grandfathered house on every shard.

    :p
     
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  10. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Jesus man don't make me open even more accounts...
     
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  11. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    LOL Wuv u Uriah!!!!
     
  12. Exploit_SX

    Exploit_SX Rares Fest Host | Atl June 2013
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    People are unhappy with this broken system... WHAT A SHOCK!
     
  13. Exploit_SX

    Exploit_SX Rares Fest Host | Atl June 2013
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    Not gonna lie I laughed my ass off when I saw this post!
     
  14. Scribbles

    Scribbles Babbling Loonie
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    "If you dont have enough for everyone dont bring anything at all" - momma said
     
  15. Aibal

    Aibal Slightly Crazed
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    Flush the gi. Please.
     
  16. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    PLEASE KEEP THIS THREAD CLEAN

    I DONT WANT THE KELMO MONSTER TO HAVE TO EAT IT

    P.S.

    I realize this in in UO hall, and many dont care about rares from a collector's standpoint, but i still consider it an interesting poll.
     
  17. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Hey! Thanks Smoot!

    I do want to assure you I care very much for our rares' community.
     
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  18. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    I would´ve voted for #1 but since "more characters = best chance" was added I won´t.
     
  19. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    They have a static item for placement that can drop the items for a set amount of time to anyone that dbl clicks it . I thought these were supposed to be nifty little nothings anyway. *sigh*
     
  20. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    I go to only a handful of events...

    That being said... I go for the change of pace.. a random odd looking monster... the storyline... and of course the chance at a cool drop.. one that i will either keep if it appeals to me... or will sell to buy something that does.

    i go on one account.

    I think that it should be part random and believe the people that put there time and gold into it should receive some type of better odd.

    That being said... I would vote for the top three damagers / healers .. getting three... out of the 15/20.. rest should remain random.

    I like seeing less gold rich players getting drops.. (less UO savy players) getting them thus spreading the cash around. Which in any good economy disperses said UO gold to more...

    BETWEEN the old system and these new one i prefer the ladder.

    There is nothing to be done about multiple clients. That is equal to all. Anyone can make more accounts...

    I play one.

    Thanks to all for keeping this discussion free of locking comments and remarks.
     
  21. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    Only a handful bud, only a handful. trust me, you are the minority.

    I did like the suggestion of a split drop system, but realize that will never happen.
     
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  22. blend

    blend Lore Keeper
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    sorry off topic
    Some people wish that there is no item
    also I prefer things like rubble event or Global Events

    Although I agree that EM event is great
    Chance to get something, limited to 1 hour in the EM event would be too dependent on the Style life or time zone of each
     
  23. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    I prefer to play one, but many people run 4-6 now. i just cant really justify investing that much money in UO. for it to pay for itself, i would have to start treating events as a business rather than a game.

    If it were a split system, fighting for those top slots would be a fun challenge.
    I would prefer half or 1/3 of the 10-20 drops to be top healing / damage based to give more people the opportunity to test their character against the odds. I think its more realistic that people would / could step up and enjoy that challenge.

    The old system was really only in the early stages of competitiveness. You could have a very good shot at the majority of drops with a 20mil character. Not many at all ran 211 stam suits. most spell damagers had an easy 90ish sdi.

    If it were only 3 items, even 1 item rewarded to top damager / healer it would still be fun. This would in fact need an expensive suit. Tho not as expensive as a pvp suit, i think it would still take around 400mil. Or a max sdi suit / tamer with low survivability mods. Or a team with tamer/ranged combo with a dedicated healer.

    Anyway it would still be fun to try to develop a character that could be top damager / healer, while everyone who does not enjoy that kind of thing also has a random chance.

    I just want something hard to do and something to work towards again in UO. Perhaps the new Virtue vrs Vice system will revitalize pvp enough to make testing ones self against others template ideas, gear, and skill fun again. I am looking forward to it.
     
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  24. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    The reason i said top three... is beCause. things are best in three.. lol.. Ocd ... the Olympics... gold silver bronze... ;)
     
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  25. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    :bdh: :facepalm: :tinhat: Calgon take me away!!!!!!!!! omg Kelmo keep an eye on them.. I give up. They just want to argue..
     
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  26. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    everyone drop everytime. every single character at an event recieves a momento

    the winner i predict....and why not..the drops are only a momento of any said event...
     
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  27. James Moriarty

    James Moriarty Journeyman
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    Well if everyone got a drop those with multiple character will be on a guaranteed winner and I cant think of anything in UO that guarantees a win for doing anything
     
  28. Lady Khaleesi

    Lady Khaleesi Seasoned Veteran
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    Oh for the days when people played for the "fun" …. of being challenged in working for skills to have the “rights” to earn a reward or a “kill” rather suits and cheats. As well the adventure of exploring the lands to see and experience the fruits your “fellowman”; the creative genius in building their guild, event or player town. “Oh to play in a relaxed state of mind rather than all this envy and greed” I have said this a few times.. I'd give up all the rares I own, to have the days of old back when playing this game was a hobby not people’s means to live on.
     
  29. Blood Ghoul

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    I think the rares dropping at EM events should be done away with anything..and those items somehow worked into hidden aspects of the game
     
  30. petemage

    petemage Seasoned Veteran

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    I feel it's fine the way it is now.

    The whole "not fair / no effort" discussion got debunked by Exploit himself, when he said his event chars are setup with 20m or less. Every Joe has put more effort into his char over the years just by eating power scrolls, so every Joe gets a chance.
     
  31. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Every person playing UO pays the same amount per month and expects access to all aspects of the game. Some might not like the Business end of gaming but, it would be shooting yourself in the foot to cater to the lowest common denominator. And simply put, UO is an old game and needs to keep the majority of its playerbase happy.

    This removes all the nonsense feelings from both sides of the arguments in these posts and states the facts behind it. Like it or hate it you can not escape capitalism. The poll above fleshes this out nicely.
     
  32. Xug

    Xug Journeyman

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    You mean the system that many people cried and cried to put in place isn't working? You mean the problems people that actually put effort into killing at events (whom have mostly quit) warned everyone about are coming to fruition? Awww shucks. :wall:
     
  33. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I agree I would give up so much if we could go back to when the game was for fun not a second income for some. I miss those days.
     
  34. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    I should just get every drop, regardless of whether I attend.
     
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  35. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    1) What is the real reason you have this weird obsession over drop rates/pixel goodies? Jealousy? Finance? Addiction? Because i'm fairly certain that events are supposed to be about participation, gameplay and storyline. Not collecting, hoarding and finance.

    2) Everyone thinks their own polls are interesting, duh
     
  36. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    I am sure they would rather the few disgruntled leave then the majority. Please see poll above.
     
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  37. Marquis de Sade 209

    Marquis de Sade 209 Journeyman
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    Not everybody has all of the time in the world to play uo (it would be completely awesome though) they really should make it worth people's time to go to these events. The last several EM events I attended were a complete waste of time....with nothing to show for it but the knowledge i could have used my limited UO time wiser.
     
  38. Scribbles

    Scribbles Babbling Loonie
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  39. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Game Design With Promathia

    Course #1 - "Not everyone is a winner"

    As children we are being taught everyone is a winner, there is no such thing as losers. Its a flawed principle, created solely to appease small children. Many players of MMO's feel the same way as those small children. They think its not fair another player has something they don't.

    "The Drop rate on Slithers are too low"
    "I want a small soul forge off Scalis, but it takes too long"
    "I didn't get an event drop"

    MMO's work on a basic principle - Keep your players playing. How do you get people to keep logging in? How do you keep enticing them to do your content? Long gone are the days of "I created this, go do it for fun". We as people have less time to play, the competition is too strong, and the overall gaming community has shifted.

    So what do you do?

    You give them challenging content, you entice them with rewards, but at the same time those rewards are hard to get. People will do the content to chase that golden carrot, and when they finally do get it, they experience such a rush that it keeps them playing. They feel like the time they have invested into the game has paid off. This is done in UO in several ways:

    1. Content specific to a playstyle - Powerscrolls are hard to get, filled with not only RNG but the risk of being killed. Some players may feel its hard, but those who are able to do it, get that rush when they get a nice drop.

    2. Properly Tuned Bosses - Medusa and Scalis both offer a high end reward, which some complain is "too rare". Yet, that rarity is what drives people to do the content over and over. It is akin to gambling, as when the payoff finally happens, you want to do it all again, hoping to hit that jackpot. It keeps people playing the game content.

    3. EM Events - An avenue to bring living content, story, and awesome rewards. Due to EM Events happening only at scheduled times, the reward is adjusted to reward people who are willing to dedicate the time. Whether you play for the story, item are just for fun, your time is rewarded with everyone having the same random chance of reward. The "chance" , much like the other examples, keeps some players going, while others are kept with enticing story. Neither type of player should be excluded. EM Events should have a good overarching story + good reward (In EM Events, the reward is once a month).

    "But I don't have the time to spend going to every Event" - I have good news for you then. Most shards (And even more have started!) do an attendance system for those who attend. If you can only make a few events in the span of a couple months, you can still be eligible for a "Promotion" within their RP ranks. The promotions usually entail receiving an item associated with it.
    Many shards also do things called "Everyone" drops every once in awhile to try to reward a large group.

    "But why should I want people who just want a reward?" - Everyone should be included. This means not excluding anyone just based on what their "goal" is in the game. This means everyone, from all playstyles, should be respectful to each other and to the Event Moderators. EM Events are UO's form of End- Game content. In other games, you have raiding which presents new story, new PvM content , and new rewards. EM Events are very similar, as they offer the 3 same things. Players keep attending for their specific reasons.


    Summary: We all play the game for different reasons. At the end of the day, we also have our impetus to keep playing, our "reward". Whether the reward is a story or item is up to how you play, but both types should be included. Everyone has a fair chance, everyone has their impetus, everyone is chasing a "goal". The system we have currently, works at all levels. Those who want story, are able to get it. Those who want a reward, all have an equal chance to get it. Large attendance numbers are good for the event, shard, and game as a whole.

    Judgement: Not everyone is, or can be a winner. When everyone wins, the game as a whole loses.


    ADDITIONAL: We can study and look at content / events where the reward is too frequent or nonexistent.

    1. Past Shards - Shards who had a long history of no reward, saw a dramatically decreased attendance number

    2. Nullified Content - Content with too frequent a reward have become a wasteland. Look at the amount of these bosses that get done: Despise, Covetous Artifacts, Exodus (These are a few examples)

    3. Barren Content - Look at bosses with no desirable loot at all - Ararat Shadowlord , Charybdis

    Rewarding everyone the same doesn't work as it quickly nullifies the game content. No reward at all, makes your content much less desirable to do, and nullifies your game content.
     
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  40. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    This is the best post ive seen amidst all this UO hall rubbish. It saddens me that UO has turned into bubblegum land for many players nowadays. *cries* Perhaps UO is not the game to play anymore if you are looking for a rewarding challenge, but i still can have hope.
     
  41. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Ok a little story that is true from long long ago in UO history.
    Back in late 97 early 98 a guild I wont say the name of had a leader who was quite briliant in ways only today you would see as sinister.
    This guild had a huge member base for its day. Divisions for every skill you could think of. Soon they were a force to be reconded with.
    Dungoens they went to were quicky unuseable as they wiped it out and anything that spawned was quickly snached up.
    They all grew in wealth and power...gold became their goal and the houseing on that shard soon was over shadowed by their control.
    This was the age of Ebay. Gold was not 25- 30 cents per mill but hundreds per. Houses of any large size sold for thousands. Regents to houses were soon milked by them... till one day. The GM of the guild came up with a way for the elete of his guild to make even more..
    By this time duping had become the rage with the cheating side of the game... UO was expanding and so did this guild.
    That ws till it came under the radar of the GM's of the game. Rares and things that took hours to make or get were free flowing in that guilds posession... IF any of you super Vets remember the hell it took to get a vanq... this guild had them in spades. Invun armor the whole shooting match. The GM's were not dumb and sat in many hours in the shadows to see how things wer done. The vast scope of what they were doing was a true amazing feat. This guild had been makinga true living off UO. Now it was cheating to do it even more in the guise of honest game play. Not long after the Dev got word of this and investagated the whole of their opperation did the boom hit and boy did it hit hard.
    In under 1 hour a whole guild's members accounts went into perma ban. This went so deep tht past members who had quit UO were hit as well. The masterminds had a qomplete account wipe and houses disapeared contents and all as if they didnt exsist in the first place.
    Castles fell and E bay was taken to task for listing pixels...
    What does this have to do with EM events you ask??
    Quite simple.
    When one group takes over something as money making as this and bemoans the change that takes its "rights" to the valuable items it makes one think back to that bygone day... and I wonder how much of it is for the pockets in rl these items fetch in uo gold is their lining.
    As I said before the same vendors had every event rare up with the exception of hte main rare and those sold at rare fest and in trade for huge gold amounts... is it fair to the players at large the system as it is? Yes You can hear it in the complaints.
     
  42. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Name another company that does not cater to the biggest consumer base possible @Smoot?
     
  43. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    I think, we on a whole also have another problem with people lumping the bad eggs into their respective playstyles.

    Not every pvper is a scripter
    Not every RPer will get mad when you dont RP how they want
    Not every griefer is an event goer who just wants an item
    Not every rares collector is a duper

    Every MMO + playstyle suffers from the same things (Gold sellers/farmers, multiboxers, scripting, duping). It is inherently flawed to try to say they represent a specific playstyle as a whole.
     
  44. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    off the top of my head, Apple. if they had catered to the majority it would have been a failed company by now.
     
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  45. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I think you are forgetting that UO perhaps has a larger crowd of players than most MMOs who have experienced how becoming overly addicted to a game can have very bad consequences in real life. I'm not saying everyone who plays UO fits in this category because there certainly seem to be some people who play all day and all night long. But I think there are probably quite a few veteran players who don't play nearly as much or as often as they used to and are wise to the ways in which game developers attempt to suck them in to frittering away an unhealthy number of hours per day playing. They probably feel like they've managed to get their UO "addiction" to a safe level and one that is mostly tolerated by their family and friends.

    So what does this mean for UO if your job is to provide compelling "live event" content to keep your subscribers happy? I honestly don't know. But I do know that many, many people whom I have talked to are sick and tired of the limited "live event" content we do get being nothing more than an endless grind to get new items. I don't think people expect to have new stuff just handed to them on a silver platter, so to speak. However, when everything new that's added turns out to be something you can obtain in only two or three ways (devote endless hours to grinding for it yourself, buy it from an item farmer for gold you already have, or buy it from an item farmer for cash), people who have been loyal to UO for many years really do start to wonder what is the point of trying to maintain any kind of loyalty to UO. When you're in your mid-40s, 50s, 60s, or 70s and have already invested 10+ years into a specific game and it no longer provides you with compelling content that you can drop into and get out of quickly if need be, to fit your current lifestyle, you really do start to wonder why you bother with it anymore. You don't want to go through the addiction/withdrawal to a sane level process with a new game and yet you really aren't ready to walk away from UO completely. But it is SOOOOO damn unsatisfying the way it is running now.

    I don't know what the answer is. But I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in feeling very, very frustrated with the way things are running right now with regard to "live events" in UO. I am not happy with the way things are, but telling me to just leave and go to another game is NOT an answer because there will be NO other games in my future. UO is it and when it finally reaches the point where I just can't see any more reason to put my time and money into it, then that's it for me as far as playing online games goes. And I know from talking to guildmates and other people that they feel the same way. So I really hope Broadsword is reading this and really, really tries to understand what it means, i.e., get your act together or there will be a mass exodus very soon of people who are tired of seeing UO becoming a place fit for just the ultra-rich and/or the scripters because you've neglected to provide a sufficient amount of content for that vast, uncounted group of players that are often condescendingly referred to as "casual players."

    Edited to add: And before anyone tells me that the EM events are intended to fill the "live event" gap for casual players, would you please thoroughly exam current and past times for EM events and tell me exactly how in the world you are supposed to get to them with any regularity when you live in the western half of the United States and have family obligations that keep you busy in the evenings, when the earliest you can reliably sit down at the computer and play UO for a few hours is not until 9, 10, or 11 pm in the evenings, which translates to 11 pm, midnight, 1 am, etc. on the east coast? And no, the answer isn't to go to EM events on the Japanese shards. Who wants to go to an event when you can't even understand what is going on, it's 6 am your time on a Saturday or Sunday morning, plus if you get something it means a local player didn't get something? EM events are not scheduled well for U.S. west coast players who work for living and/or have family obligations during daytime hours. They just aren't. I think the EM on LA comes the closest to getting them on a reasonable schedule, but even his are not easy to schedule for when you have a family with kids/grandchildren that you spend time with during the day and on weekends.
     
    #45 Tina Small, Jul 15, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
  46. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    They did things differently to start out but what are they doing now? Increasing screen size, allowing music to be owned, etc etc. Catering to more and more people to increase revenue and keep customers from going elsewhere.
     
  47. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Can I haz ur stuffs?
     
  48. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    agreed, adding popular features while still retaining product quality. However companies that forsake their core standards, what set them apart, usually see an increase in sales until people realize its not what it once was. and then the company fails. its a fine line i suppose.
     
  49. Longtooths

    Longtooths Supreme Commander
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    Agreed, and one I am glad I am not having to make in this case.
     
  50. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Most people here in UHall wouldn't waste their time going to an IDOC of any of my houses. I already know that. My "stuff" is too mundane, too ordinary, too cheap. I'm pretty passionate about UO, but I refuse to run scripts and I stopped buying gold from brokers quite a few years ago when I realized how pathetic it was. So what I have is what I've gathered myself in almost 10 years of playing and it really does amount to very little because I've spent too much time hopping shards trying to find my own little niche in the world of UO. I don't own one single rare. I still don't own a crimson cincture or any kind of fancy robe with properties on it other than one of those old purple robes with luck on it. Many of my characters on GL and Baja are running around in the lousy armor I put them in 9 or 10 years ago. The ones elsewhere might have stuff I or a guildmate imbued. And some kind soul on Balhae made my tamer there a pretty nice luck suit. But that's basically it. I spend my time training characters and trying to help out random strangers when I can. Doing something different once in a while that doesn't require a 20 million suit would be nice, but at this point i really don't think it's gonna happen.
     
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