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EM's a better system possibly

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Dixie of Chesapeake, Apr 16, 2013.

  1. Dixie of Chesapeake

    Dixie of Chesapeake Journeyman

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    hi guys, as you all know there are some em's who just give out crazy nice prizes at events, decorate the banks beautifully , and really seem to show a big interest in their position. then we have others who, well not so much. "and please dont call any em out by name on here, its kinda rude and will just mess up the whole point of this thread" they all try in their own ways, but some definitely do more. which brings me to my question. is there any way we could put em's on a 3 month rotation cycle? this would put an end to any one shard losing out on great events all the time, or having lack of interest from their em's. a 3 month time frame would be plenty of time for a story line to be run, or just a couple of thrash and bash events, or even a few competitions...how ever the em would choose to use his 3 month period. you also hear about favoritism allot "true or not, who knows?" a rotation may stop this also, because 3 or 6 events at the most isnt enough time to pick a group of favorites out on every shard........again not trying to cut anyone, just trying to find a way to make our uo community better for all its players.....but theres my ideas =)
     
  2. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Of course the thing you claim to be attracted to, the EMs who show a big interest in their position, by definition would be correlated with a steady EM presence -- the very thing your proposal seeks to destroy.

    -Galen's player
     
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  3. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    all that needs said, "requires a steady EM presence"
     
  4. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    If there's no favoritism then it shouldn't be an issue..when you hear certain people say.. "Oh I just spoke to so n so on ICQ and they said" seems a bit too personal for a unbiased event moderator..my 2 cents valid or not
     
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  5. TheGrimReefer

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    The problem is that EMs are players too just not for the shard they are the EM of or shouldn't be. They have their favorites and treat them as such. This is how you always here the same people always getting 1 of a kind event items.
     
  6. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Do you have any proof of this?
     
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  7. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Do you have proof it's not?..I'm sure he doesn't though
     
  8. Arathar

    Arathar Visitor

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    Well just observe the trade forum for a few weeks and you can see the obvious.
     
  9. Sapphirediablo

    Sapphirediablo Journeyman
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    From my understanding, and experiences with watching people get rares...

    EMs really love gargoyle throwers with mysticism. I mean, almost every time there is an item, they make sure to personally have the monster weak versus high dps builds.
     
  10. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Yeah, proof that people get items from EM events and sell them...
    Not proof of favoritism though.
     
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  11. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Now that the thread is derailed..it would be a good idea to get back to the OP..not that it matters but I'm in favor of cycling
     
  12. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    I don't think we need to cycle EMs.

    The shards are kind of like ice cream. All have slightly different flavors, and the EMs are the toppings that help make every shard unique. :)
     
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  13. Sapphirediablo

    Sapphirediablo Journeyman
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    I can see some major pros and cons to EM Cycling...
    (these are just some things that I can think of quickly off the top of my head)


    Pros:
    - New EMs means different types of events
    - If an EM gives out more rares than others, shard will all be likely to get rares
    - Less chance at "Favortism" or anything like that
    - Experience different ideas and story lines.
    - EMs of different experience levels on all shards to gain a better understand of the game and how to handle different players (Pro for the EMs)
    - Different times of events. No only set nights.

    Cons:
    - No connection with the EM
    - No continuing story arcs. Some EMs story lines go on for ages
    - Less likely to know the history of the shard.
    - Wont prevent favortism. (Transfer tokens are purchasable or vet rewardable)
    - EMs of different experience levels on all shards to may not be able to handle different players (Con for the EMs)
    - Different times for events. (Lets not forget the japanese shards have EMs, those would be some early event for a central or eastern bloke)
     
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  14. budman23

    budman23 Journeyman

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    The problem i tend to see at events is when you have a item half the time it is put on a creature that is rediculously weak.
    I can name shard after shard where this is the same issue, half the time people cant even get its bar let alone get a hit.
    I fail to see why the players dont see this as a bigger problem, the drops take no skill to get as there was no thought in getting them just who gets the lucky first click.

    I have seen more than one atlantic event where this was NOT a problem, plenty of death and destruction there, its just to bad others dont follow suit.
    Maybe thats why they draw the big crowds, or maybe why people are there to begin with.

    Now you can say this is just coincidence but if i was going to put a drop out and i wanted my friends to get it wouldnt it be easy to give it ultra low hp and just tell them ahead where it will spawn?
    Why would you even want to give people an opportunity to even THINK this is happening?
     
    #14 budman23, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  15. Mesanna

    Mesanna UO Producer | Dark OverLady
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    Hello everyone,

    Everyone is entitled to your own theory to the EM program. I totally agree we are not perfect but when we come across a weakness in the program we change it. I promise you there is no way for a EM using the top attacker to make sure anyone specific gets a reward. If I hear of any favortism I will stop it, we have worked really hard to make sure this is not present within the EM program.
     
  16. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    They do an excellent job, kudos to the effort that they put in to give the remaining player base we have a good experience unlike years past. I have attended events and have received items and have also not. I personally don't think that items are being "handed" out to specific players, I was just saying more along the lines of...

    ICQ

    Random Sosarian: any drops at this event tonight?

    EM: I'd bring your best warrior

    ..almost verbatim from what I can remember
     
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  17. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    EM's are limited by not just by the game time they can do.
    They are Real People with real lives.
    Some might not have the time for the fancy deco but put out a great adventure with the story line...
    Others have that touch for the house beautiful magazine type deco of areas.... and do a great job in the questing too.
    Madam Dark Lady....
    Might I suguest a "Butterfly EM?"
    A helper of sorts who can go from shard to shard and perhaps spruce up and help clean up left over EM debris. They can do say a shard at a time, and visit and help out the resident EM.
     
    #17 Lady Storm, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  18. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Let's be honest about what the real concern in this thread is.

    The original poster was not subtle. Her first stated concern was:

    You will not find me defending the impact of the new loot system (though I will defend its intent, just not the execution). But to say it's being done deliberately to favor certain people in particular is rather ridiculous. With the same breath you all say that the team can't code, and you say that somehow the coding was done with such a high level of sophistication as to allow certain people to be picked for rewards?

    On GL last night there was a good amount of spam for an item and that there was too much storyline and RP. As much of it was directed at me as at the EMs because I --gasp in horror!-- went with the event, participated, spoke to the NPCs.

    The biggest problem with EM Events is us players. Any problems with the item drop system would seem much less important if we went with the events as events.

    Now, granted, most do appear to go with the event.

    The problem is that the other side organized into guilds and, unfortunately, has too many supporters and enablers. Their small numbers are less important than their impact and the fact that they know how to magnify their voices.

    And that too many of us who don't feel the way they do refuse to call them on it. And sadly sometimes add to the fire with petty, stupid, and pathetic grudges based on lies and half truths. (I can't believe how often I read or heard that GL's EMs didn't give out items until I started linking people to a thread on the rares forums showing that they actually gave out more than average. I can't believe how often I have read of heard accusations of favoritism or corruption that didn't meet the test of simple plausibility).

    If you are going to an EM Event solely for an item, you are stupid. The odds do not favor you; most events don't have items and if they do there's too few given out to guarantee you one.

    -Galen's player
     
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  19. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    The only problem with event items on drachs is not the EM, is a small group of players from other shards. When they did not get a item at event they claim that the EM is cheating and that his favorite players always get the item. I worked together with our EM on some Events and i been to all his event since he came to Drachenfels, i can assure you that he does not favorite anyone for items.

    The small group who always come for just the items are always the same ones. Its no coincidence they all look a like and even their names are similar.
    These player are never seen on any other events. Their greed seems to give them their rights for some wild accusation!

    To me, and I'm sorry for all those good players who mean well, EM event items should be shard bound and not be able to transfer them off the shards!

    For the record, in all the events, and although i got my hands a few, i never kept any for myself. I just gave them away to other players from our shard that i know who earned it.
     
    #19 Frarc, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
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  20. WootSauce

    WootSauce Lore Keeper
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    Mesanna,

    Did you not change the distribution of the vast majority of EM items from random corpse loot to pack drop and specifically state that the rewards would go to the people who damaged and healed the most (changing and breaking the loot system at the same time)? Your EM's for the most part are incredibly talented and dedicated people, but to make this statement is kind of silly. You created this environment where a single template (and a group of people who run that template) have an undeniably distinct advantage.
     
    #20 WootSauce, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
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  21. Ducan IronWeaver

    Ducan IronWeaver Lore Master

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    Mesanna will we ever see our 2012 Mesanna world tour on Catskills? I know catskills and like 2 other shards still have not had this event.
    I know that you are busy and everything. But how can you start a 2013 world tour when there are shards that still have not received the 2012 tour yet?
    Instead of Legends getting a 2013 tour why couldnt you do the 2012 tour for catskills or europa?(not sure if another shard hasnt gotten it yet)
     
    #21 Ducan IronWeaver, Apr 18, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
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  22. Ducan IronWeaver

    Ducan IronWeaver Lore Master

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    Instead of using top attacker to were it gives a huge advantage to certain templates and elite suits. Can't drops be made to any player who dealt damage has a chance to receive a drop?
    Wouldn't this spread out the drops more and allow other players a chance to get these great items no matter the template/suit. Give the avg casual player chances.
    Have drops always go into your pack and never on a monsters corpse. Most events are chaos and u cant even see corpses to loot them. Items that are on corpses most of the time don't go to the person who really got the drop. I know someone who sits on a stealthier on a 2nd account and just waits for looting right to expire and finds drops on corpses. Did it at a v-day event and ended up with 6 out of 10 sandals that dropped.
     
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  23. Dixie of Chesapeake

    Dixie of Chesapeake Journeyman

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    well yeah that is one complaint...when i see crazy moon gate thingys, and gong snakes, and dolphin statues......but on the shard i play on ,well im sorry to say but our bank looks like crap, no one even wants to bother attending the events "even the ems LOL" they are seriously in and out as fast as they can possibly be.... you say they may not have the time to invest to be an em...well im sorry about that but thats what they signed up for...their are plenty of people that live eat sleep and breathe UO...give the job to one of those people....or cycle the ems so that everyone gets a turn at fun em's..........i would love to be excited about an event , just once.... "and i dont attend events on other shards because i dont live sleep eat and breathe uo, i wanna be able to have a good time on my own shard" and its not just me, listen to gen chat or stand in luna bank and listen on chessy, people are unhappy.....heck if yall really wanna see how the ems are doing make a box that hands out one special book per account with lets say a 24hr timer "so no one will feel the need to keep it" beside that make a trunk only accessable to mesanna . ask the simple question are you happy with your shards ems, let us know how their doing...... see the feedback you get. not everyone posts on stratics, heck some players dont even know about stratics. you wanna find out how your player base really feels dont rely on a handful of posts on a 3rd party site , once an issue has been brought up go in game and check with your player base.
     
  24. budman23

    budman23 Journeyman

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    After giving this idea considerable thought i tend to agree on a few points he makes here.
    I can get a understandble perspective about spreading the drops around, as long as there was a reasonable amount of damage or healing achieved by the player. Perhaps not top attackers but at least force you to get looting rights,
    before you can get a chance at something bigger. This should send all the naked people packing, and while used with a difficult monster it wouldnt be able to be multicliented either.
    Basically this would provide a much greater access to items and would definetly encourage all to attend as many events as possible. (with at least a decent character)

    While this definitely wont make some happy and might make some delighted, the overall impact on UO is a definite positive and will encourage further participation, larger crowds, which in turn makes more money for EA.

    Items need to be looked at as something to better the community regardless of the shard the player is originally from, not something that is hoarded on the shard it is given out on.
    This shard vs shard thought process is worthless overall and doesnt better the community as a whole. So you kept your item on your shard so all 10 of you can appreciate it?
     
    #24 budman23, Apr 18, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
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  25. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    Individual perspectives vary regarding EMs and how important items are. Personally, I'm happy with my shard and have a difficult time relating to the idea that happiness in UO is dependent on how much "crazy nice" stuff we can acquire. I'm not knocking anyone who feels differently... but if items were my main reason for playing UO, I doubt I'd still be here after all these years. I love UO for other reasons.
     
    #25 old gypsy, Apr 18, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
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  26. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Do you really think an EM will take the time to nicely decorate when he or she is on rotating assignment.

    Do you really think every player likes "gong snakes," "dolphin statues," and "crazy moon gate thingys."

    One cannot reasonably think either of these.

    At the end of the day, therefore, we're left with items.

    You are correct that most players don't post on Stratics, but most players who wish to complain about not getting an item do.

    -Galen's player
     
  27. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    I'd be ok with just getting rid of the EM program. I've not seen anything of substance since it came out.

    Oh a colored lantern. Yay.
     
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  28. budman23

    budman23 Journeyman

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    On many shards possibly almost all at any event (where there is a potential drop) you can count the attendance to be higher than any 3 shards worth of luna bank people.
    I can easily say there is no single place left in this game on ANY shard that has the participation of some of the least known events on foreign shards.

    This participation should be seen as a good sign, and not something you "get rid of" unless we are trying to further damage the game.

    Honestly on a side note i do not care for opinions i let the numbers speak for me and i would say the participation at events has spoken for itself.
     
    #28 budman23, Apr 18, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
  29. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    The participation is only because they are handing out items. It's like winning the lottery to most players.
     
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  30. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    This is not correct, not on Great Lakes, and not if by "the participation" you meant the participation of most players, and if you meant participating solely for the items, both of which would appear to be your implication.

    This represents a significant minority of participation, and the loudest segment, but not the majority.

    -Galen's player
     
  31. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    If there were no items being handed out at all, I doubt there would even still be an EM program because of lack of player participation.
     
    #31 NuSair, Apr 18, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
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  32. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    On Great Lakes attendance was still robust during the long item-less period.

    One time when an item was handed out early in an event, most people stayed for the plot. Not all but most.

    -Galen's player
     
  33. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    We clearly dfifer on the opinion of "substance".

    Mine simply doesn't revolve on useless pixel crack.
     
  34. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    "Pixel crack" is all purpose UO player speak for "something I personally do not like."

    I could just as easily say that about PvP content and uber PvP ownage or whatever it is you are interested in. (Which, clearly, isn't storyline substance to any meaningful degree.)

    Except that typically I don't say such things because I don't see this game as a competition.

    You, however, do, which means you have no issue trashing things you do not understand.

    It's, sadly, a great advantage on Stratics, to be the way you are, as opposed to the way I am.

    But I'll survive.

    -Galen's player
     
  35. Dixie of Chesapeake

    Dixie of Chesapeake Journeyman

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    well if thats not correct then start attending events on chessy, you can be guaranteed to not receive an item and waste at least 100k or so in insurance $
     
  36. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    If I played in Chessy I likely would attend events on Chessy. I do not play on Chessy. I attend events on my home shard and the worst thing about them, typically, is other players who are only there for the item and think that spamming for items and behaving reprehensibly is an effective way to get one.

    "Waste" is relative. If you define "waste" as "I got nothing of monetary value in return," then I would not recommend attending EM events on any shard for reasons which I've stated many times, at least once in this very thread.

    At the end of the day, and you get less subtle about it with every post you make, you want items.

    And to you I say: There are many ways to get valuable items in this game that are not EM events. In substance this isn't significantly different from what I tell griefers on my home shard.

    -Galen's player
     
  37. Matty O No

    Matty O No Journeyman

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    Rumor on PAC is an EM got canned for favoritism... And while we do get drops 1/2 our events have had problems so far this year.. If the intention is for 75+ items to be given out let's make a clicky with limited time instead of attempting to make every damager get one but only 10 drop like the sashes, putting a Low HP monster in an area many cannot reach ( on water) like the Tree Drop, or putting items on corpses after the EM promises never to do so, or only having 1 EM who has a RL issue and leaves 75 peeps standing around as he no-show's the event... And Yes Pacific is waiting for Messana to come and host an Event like on Legends.
     
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  38. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    Two things would result if they got rid of the EM program:

    1. Players who do enjoy it would lose out on some fun.

    2. You still wouldn't receive "anything of substance" - unless #1 gives you pleasure. o_O
     
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  39. Sapphirediablo

    Sapphirediablo Journeyman
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    .... There are some people...
    .... Who take pleasure in other peoples misfortune...

    NSFW
    Schadenfreude!~

     
    #39 Sapphirediablo, Apr 18, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
  40. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Dixie
    Chessy had a very good EM in Vladimere.. and dudly tried to do better after his leaving the program. So I guess your talking of recient EM events.
    I wont go into the past but the future is where your mind is at. soooo
    If you feel the EM is not up to snuff talk/e mail Mesanna.
    Be polite and explain why you feel the job is not done to satisfaction of all who attend.

    Many Em's like players vary in their interpretation of the job.
    I agree on some shards I have seen the EM's run their events like it was a timed race to get it done and split...
    While others will pop in hours or even a day or two and get the shard ready for it. Talking and teasing the players for max partisapation in the event. The do clean up and know their shards.

    If you think you can do better and have the time put in an applacation for the job!

    If EA allowed it I'd Vollenteer to be UO's Beautification person... no pay needed just give me the tools and stand back.... I'd show you a pretty world...!!!!
     
    #40 Lady Storm, Apr 18, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
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  41. budman23

    budman23 Journeyman

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    I recommend you start doing events on several shards, regardless of what others say.
    I personally have been dissatisfied with chessy for a while, its why i dont play there even though i have characters there.

    If you try to follow Galens advice youll be playing just like him, alone.
     
    #41 budman23, Apr 18, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
  42. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Nope pretty sure pixel crack refers to useless items.
     
  43. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    ***Pulls out UO Dictionary****
    Pixel Crack ..Noun
    An object in the game of Ultima Online that has a coveted value to a player of said game. Adictive.
     
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  44. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Yeah, to a player, not all players.
     
  45. Dixie of Chesapeake

    Dixie of Chesapeake Journeyman

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    i honestly dont have the time to do it, im stretched thin as it is....but id just love to see people on chessy excited about things.... the Vladimere event from what i heard was above normal chessy standards , and there were actually like 20 or so drops that didnt get to be given out because the attendance for the event was so low "this is what i was told anyway" but that is why attendance on chessy is low......the events are usually boring, the story lines are hard to follow, and there is usually no reward other than a piece of clothing that has crafted by "insert some long name" .....
     
  46. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Wasn't one of those EMs the idiot who gated to "Green Acres"?
     
    #46 Berethrain, Apr 19, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
  47. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    One person's pixel crack is another person's great item. Only idiots who see the way they play as the only valid playstyle, really, answer any different, because it's only they who reify what they do and trash what everyone else does. House decoration, collecting, these are all valid playstyles, all the more so because, unlike, say, old-school PvP thievery or PKing, they do not involve ****ing with someone else.

    Someone I believe said that I play "alone?" All I have to say about that is, first of all, I would rather play alone if the only option was playing with people who can only play against other players rather than against objectively defined obstacles. You see, to win against other players all you have to do is suck less than they do, and/or convince everyone else what the outcome of the fight was -- the actual outcome mattering a lot less than what you can convince everyone it was. Whereas to win against objective obstacles requires a consistent level of effort, and the ability to beat obstacles that don't care how much you roll into Global Chat to do spin control.

    Fortunately that's not the only option; most players don't appear to be predatory, but unfortunately those who do are loud and thus are listened to all-too-often. The result is Publishes aimed at them that they later deride.

    And second of all, thank you, because few things are as amusing to me as when someone whom I'm neither aware of knowing nor have any wish whatsoever to know, still somehow knows who I am. The statement made in this thread wasn't quite as amusing as the fellow who talked openly about having looked at my character's gear, when I had no idea who it was, but it comes close.

    -Galen's player
     
  48. whiterabbit

    whiterabbit Stratics Legend
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    meees votes fer lady storm to bees beatifation officer.
    ebberybody step back habes an ice creams an relax.
    no drops fer any one , vending machine only 1 item per account, timed. in a secert place wif no gating.
    ozog
     
  49. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    If allowed I'd volunteer to beautify UO and fix all the things that are "missing"..... hundreds of floor tiles here and there that are missing..... corner posts, doors, etc... What I wouldn't give to have those controls... I've often said give me a day with a DEV and I'll show them how we REALLY play .... and show them what is so freaking frustrating to us.....

    I sometimes feel like the Native American in the 70's commercial who looks at all the garbage across our lands and sheds a silent tear. I look around UO and see so many things that just are NOT pretty and I think no wonder people from those pixel pretty games come here and laugh... Our coasts are dotted with tiles that just don't match..... water on land land in the water.... holes here, holes there... Odd things put here or there that just don't belong... mismatched stuff all around.... and I think if someone only cared enough to fix this... How nice that would be.

    I don't know what I'd give to be able to go over the land and delete the 100's of things floating and left all over the land from houses that have LONG since fallen..... paintings, sledge hammers, water troughs, etc... If I could fix that I'd be so happy...
     
    #49 MalagAste, Apr 19, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
  50. RazicGL

    RazicGL Seasoned Veteran
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