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Enchanted Apples

Discussion in 'UHall' started by sibble, Feb 21, 2015.

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  1. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    There's already a cool-down on apples, so why the chance to fail ?!?

    EDIT: Not only that but if you're cursed and spell plagued, and you go to apple, it only removes spell plague. You could be effected by every debuff in the game, if you're spell plagued and eat an apple, it'll only remove spell plague. So if a player wanted to keep up all their buffs on someone all they'd have to do is have someone spam spell plague and they're perma debuffed. I could probably go on and on about how apples are unbalanced, but I think the original statement is enough.

    EDIT2:

    We're talking about removing RNG from a PVP mechanic which puts more... responsibility? on players by giving a player the choice of when to apple and remove his debuffs. This adds more player skill factor into PVP, which is a good thing right?

    Scenario:
    A player gets cursed and decides to apple immediately to remove it, putting his enchanted apples on cool down. Said player then gets effected by mortal strike and can't eat an apple. If the player had waited he could have removed both curse and mortal strike. Maybe he did the right thing by using the apple earlier than later so he didn't take more damage from the time he was cursed till the time he was mortaled. Maybe not...? In regards to scripting, if anything, this would make scripters WORSE OFF!!!!! If you curse a scripter, he eats an apple almost instantly, then you mortal him, that mortal is going to stick.

    It puts PVP more on the player and less on some random faerie floating down and saying "sorry, you're out of luck this time, no apple for you!" Player skill should be more of a determining factor in PVP, rather than RNG. So there ya go, less RNG and more player skill in PVP. Also hurts scripters. No-brainer.


    I'd like to add one more thing. Community player feedback in regards to PVP has always been lacking. VvV system came out with lots of bugs, people didn't want to test it, people didn't want to give feedback. Enchanted Apples effect everyone there should be more people giving their feedback. Playing on LS just yesterday, I was fighting 2 people at once, I mortaled one of them and he proceeded to eat apples, only to fail removing it. That player ended up dying and proceeded to say in General Chat: enchanted apples suck they shouldn't fail. I told that player to come on the forums and post to this thread. He did not.

    I really hope a dev reads this thread.
     
    #1 sibble, Feb 21, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  2. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Agreed, remove the rng chance of failure, bring that timing back.
     
  3. Vexxed

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    Yea ...I specifically have a problem with apples faiLing to remove mortal. This is very lame because mortal can already be spammed while an apple is in cooldown. It doesn't need the chance to fail.
     
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  4. Goodmann

    Goodmann Babbling Loonie
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  5. Mervyn

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    No don't remove the chance to fail, this only improves the power of the scripters who have it set to auto apple when mortalled etc.
     
  6. Old Vet Back Again

    Old Vet Back Again Slightly Crazed

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    Even though there is a cool down? You understand that even with a script a non-scripting player can just re-debuff them and they will not be able to use the apple? This also has a great potential to make the script break due to not being able to run correctly....
     
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  7. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    And here I was under the impression that only goblins used enchanted apples these days. Mainly to interrupt HOC meetings.
     
  8. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    It doesn't hinder scripters, however. Wouldn't a script attempt to eat an apple again if it failed? Shall GCures have a greater chance to fail on stronger poisons, to counteract auto-chug scripts?

    Every time any Dev team attempted things like randomized ore and BOD turn-in delays, they didn't hurt scripters while making it a pain (or worse) for legitimate players.
     
  9. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Try fighting a max swing speed archer that spams mortal..that's a super fun fight!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    Enchanted apples are fine. Leave them alone.
     
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  11. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Ok, other than your opinion can you add any reasoning?
     
  12. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    There is no problem with the way Enchanted apples currently work from my perspective. I'd rather keep the chance to fail on them rather than change them. In addition, see Mervyn's post.

    Also, the perpetual whining from those on Stratics expecting the developers to micro manage every aspect of this game is just out of control. This is an example of that and is, in my opinion, an area that warrants no developer attention.
     
  13. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    to be fair, mortal cant be spammed at max speed 1.25, highest speed for mortal is 1.5. i get your point tho, and personally think there should be a timer on disarm and mortal. maybe slighly less for mortal than an apple. maybe 20 seconds.
     
  14. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    The devs should not factor scripting paranoia into game mechanics.
    That would be idiotic and still not appease the cheating zealots.
     
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  15. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    Ugh this is going into another scripter debate. Didn't you guys notice what they just did to idocs because of all the complaining about scripters?

    You REALLY wanna go there with our backpacks?


    seriously.jpg
     
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  16. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Well, from your opinion alone the only argument you have is "you'd rather keep the chance to fail, rather than change them," which isn't an argument at all. You did refer to Mervyn's post, in which he stated that this would "this only improves the power of the scripters who have it set to auto apple when mortalled etc" I mean, if you actually stop and think about this statement, there's no difference either way for people using scripts. Whether a person is eating an apple manually, or a script is doing it for them, is completely irrelevant to this subject. It's irrelevant, and there's no argument over why/why not it should be changed.

    Second off, your opinion on this discussion is that this is "perpetual whining." This is a game changing mechanic for player versus player combat. I felt a need to highlight player versus player combat, because this is an online game. The main purpose of playing a game online is to play with other players. When dealing with a player fighting another player, any mechanic involved between multiple players is in my opinion something that should be on the top of the priority list. I don't think there's much argument against that statement. This is an online game after all.

    This subject has zilch, zero, nadda to do with scripting. The discussion at hand is whether apples are able to fail or not. Someone using a script to eat an apple, has nothing to do with this subject. I'm a player who doesn't use scripts, I eat apples manually. There is no difference between a player manually eating an apple and a script doing it for the player in regards to whether the apple fails to remove a curse, or not. People are going to use scripts to automatically eat apples either way. We're talking about a game mechanic here people!

    This is quite a simple discussion and of course any discussion involving PVP will warrant a hoard of players to post up and fight for whatever they want it to be.

    I still have yet to see a valid, reasonable argument against this subject. There are at least two very strong arguments supporting this subject in this very thread.


     
    #16 sibble, Feb 23, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  17. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    Unless something has changed since the last time I pvped, the cooldown timer didn't apply to failures. It takes a half second to hit your macro again.

    If the cooldown does in fact apply to failures now then you do have a point. If not then I say don't waste dev time when there's other bugs to be fixed and new content to be worked on.
     
  18. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    OK I think you all need to stop worrying about
    Other bugs to be fixed and new content to be worked on eh?

    Like the IDOC system that was completely reworked, yea I can see that as being a top priority. A perfectly working IDOC system which was in place for many years and players had become accustomed to, had to be completely redone. Look I'm not going to argue what's important and what's not, that's up to this game's development team to decide.

    Bro, we're talking about commenting out a couple lines of code in order to make this change. Arguing that the dev team doesn't have time for this is ludicrous. Yes I am a programmer and no I didn't work on UO. I do not know exactly how much code would needed to be change, but it's just not possible that this change would require much work.

    The two arguments in this thread opposing this subject have been related to:
    1. People Scripting
    2. Development Team's Time

    EDIT: By the way I'd like to add in that I do love our development team and I think that the interaction we have with them is really a unique experience to the MMORPG world. My statements in this post have nothing to do with whether I think they are doing a good job or not.
     
    #18 sibble, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  19. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    We're talking about removing RNG from a PVP mechanic which puts more... responsibility? on players by giving a player the choice of when to apple and remove his debuffs. This adds more player skill factor into PVP, which is a good thing right?

    Scenario:
    A player gets cursed and decides to apple immediately to remove it, putting his enchanted apples on cool down. Said player then gets effected by mortal strike and can't eat an apple. If the player had waited he could have removed both curse and mortal strike. Maybe he did the right thing by using the apple earlier than later so he didn't take more damage. Maybe not...? In regards to scripting, if anything, this would make scripters WORSE OFF!!!!!

    It puts PVP more on the player and less on some random faerie floating down and saying "sorry, you're out of luck this time, no apple for you!" Player skill should be more of a determining factor in PVP, rather than RNG.

    So there ya go, less RNG and more player skill in PVP. Also hurts scripters. No-brainer.

    I'd like to add one more thing. Community player feedback in regards to PVP has always been lacking. VvV system came out with lots of bugs, people didn't want to test it, people didn't want to give feedback. Playing on LS just yesterday, I was fighting 2 people at once, I mortaled one of them and he proceeded to eat apples, only to fail removing it. That player ended up dying and proceeded to say in General Chat: enchanted apples suck they shouldn't fail. I told that player to come on the forums and post to this thread. He did not.

    I really hope a dev reads this thread.
     
    #19 sibble, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  20. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Auto-apple when mortalled huh? You're saying by removing the failure chance it's going to make scripters better? It would make them worse actually, maybe you should explain it more.


    Yea, well, his post made just about as much sense as yours.

    Script-based resource consumption does not use resources at optimum times, instead it wastes them, players that do this need to just hope for the best, thus when people auto-apple/cure they're at a disadvantage... typically these players aren't good at pvp and are very easy to kill once you realize they auto-heal/apple when certain things hit them. much like trapped box scripts, It's tough to paralyze/box someone to death one vs one, but you can still use their script against them easily.


    Let's see how it would make scripters better though?
     
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  21. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    Enchanted apples, as they currently work, is going just fine for my PVP toons. Therefore, I personally see no reason to change them, and furthermore disagree with your suggestions or gripes about them.
     
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  22. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Thank you again for stating your opinion with no reasoning behind it.
     
  23. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    While this is true, I just ate an apple while being cursed, only cursed. It removed nothing and it's on cool down. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. I'd rather it be changed than fixed even in light of this.
     
  24. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    YOU'RE WELCOME.
     
  25. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Still there's no valid point to suggest they're benefiting scripters over non-scripters.

    Next?
     
  26. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Apples are fine just the way they are.
    All pvp classes are equally affected by the cooldown and chance to fail so what is the issue here?
    Some things have a cooldown, others do not. Oh well.
    It takes a split second to re-hit your apple key if it fails.
    You don't like being mortal spammed and I don't like being curse spammed or omen/oathed.
    98% of the time a dexxer fights a mage the mage just offscreens from the mortal until he thinks the dexxer is out of mana anyway.
    If you don't wanna do that as a mage you can always quite simply add parry and laugh at any type of dexxer using mortal. But todays wannabe godmode mages don't want to add parry and sacrifice another skill because than they would not be able to play only one temp all day and in every scenario. Oh well...
     
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  27. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Did you even bother reading the entire thread? Why can't anyone post a reason why it shouldn't be changed other than their opinion of "it works fine now?" Opinions are fine and all, please do post opinions... but at least try to give a reason. It does not work fine if you read this thread you'd see I just posted that I ate an apple, didn't remove any debuffs and my apple went on cool down. Maybe that's an EC issue, who knows. But before just responding "oh well then they should fix that," please read through the thread as there are numerous reasons to change it. No one is saying there shouldn't be a cool down so mortal, curse or any other spam is irrelevant.

    EDIT: I went ahead and edited the first post for the TL;DRers
     
    #27 sibble, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  28. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
     
  29. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    I'm going to do like u guys and just post something without reason.

    90% of my time in this game is spent PVPing. The other 10% is spent farming for gear to PVP with. That makes me an expert on all things UO PVP related. I think it should be changed. If you really think about it, the people that wouldn't want this change most likely use scripts to heal, cure, eat apples and band-aid themselves automatically.

    Thanks !
     
    #29 sibble, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  30. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    I read your quite obvious personally biased reasons for wanting help with mortal.
    Did I miss something else?

    Apples are fine as is because they work as intended.
    I have never experienced an issue where they fail and get a cooldown. Maybe I just haven't been paying much attention but I didn't see one other person in the thread confirm it either so I wonder if maybe your issue is not ingame but between your seat and your keyboard?
     
  31. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    You think my opinion is biased because I want mortal spam.

    Thanks troll. Glad we got to the bottom of your motivation for posting in here.

    YOU CAN'T BE MORTAL SPAMMED NOW!?!?!?!

    You can get mortal spammed all day as the system stands right now. You get mortaled, eat an apple, it fails, eat another and another till it gets rid of mortal, THEN YOU GET MORTALED AGAIN WHAT THEN!?

    If anything this would make things EASIER ON PEOPLE THAT GET MORTAL SPAMMED.

    LETS LOOK AT THE OTHER SCENARIO

    You get mortaled, eat an apple, you know it's going to remove mortal the first time, you know that if you get mortaled again you're going to have to wait till the cool down is over. THEN YOU GET MORTALED AGAIN.

    WHERE'S THE DIFFERENCE?
     
  32. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Nice caps bud :)
    You have comprehension issues though.
    I believe you have issues being mortaled and want the devs to help you out.
    It's ok though. A lot of lousy and/or inexperienced mages cannot handle any type of mortal so you are not alone.
    Maybe we can start a 'mortal' support group for all you baddie mages that cant handle more than 2 mortals or any archer swinging faster than 1.5
     
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  33. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    You are the one with comprehension issues, my dear friend. Either that or you're just clearly a scripter who just doesn't want things to change.

    Yup, obvious scripter right here folks lol Maybe we should start a "scripters support group" for people who can't learn how to play for themselves. Obvious cheater is obvious...


    Why can't you answer my question?

    You can get mortal spammed all day as the system stands right now. You get mortaled, eat an apple, it fails, eat another and another till it gets rid of mortal, THEN YOU GET MORTALED AGAIN WHAT THEN!?

    If anything this would make things EASIER ON PEOPLE THAT GET MORTAL SPAMMED.

    LETS LOOK AT THE OTHER SCENARIO

    You get mortaled, eat an apple, you know it's going to remove mortal the first time, you know that if you get mortaled again you're going to have to wait till the cool down is over. THEN YOU GET MORTALED AGAIN.

    WHERE'S THE DIFFERENCE?
     
  34. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    For the record, I play a dexer. Anyone who pvps on Atlantic, Great Lakes and Lake Superior would know this.

    There are no biased opinions, there's just nothing but facts. If you'd like to point out where my biased opinion is, and why, please please please do
     
  35. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    You are adding color to your caps now :) very creative.
    You just don't get it bud. I play a thrower and I spam mortal like a frigging mental patient. I love mortal!
    I would marry mortal if it were possible.
    I named my first child mortal.
    Brick says I love lamp. I say I love mortal.
    You starting to get it yet or do I need to make it clearer?
    Anyone that complains about mortal while playing a dexxer should be nutpunched for being a complete tool imo
     
  36. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Can you stop trolling this thread please? This is a serious discussion. I believe what you're doing is against forum rules at this point.
     
  37. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    First dexxer in history whining about mortal :)
    Congrats bud
     
  38. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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    Hey I'm glad you showed your true motivation, your contribution to this thread is useless as you're just trolling and now no one till take you seriously
     
  39. sibble

    sibble Lore Master
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  40. Lythos-

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    I tested this for around an hour today. I failed roughly once in twelve times with no cooldown after any failure. I was immediately able to hit my macro again (macro is on my 11 button mouse). It took maybe .5-.75 to hit.

    I also don't understand what you want done. You started off with failing apples which I see absolutely nothing wrong with hitting a macro again and completely bounce to mortal spam which is a separate issue in itself.

    A long time ago there was a stink about apples. I believe it was 3 dev teams back. They took suggestions and went way overboard and did the exact opposite of what the players suggested by upping the cooldown to a whole 2 minutes which took MONTHS to get fixed. (Pub 46-47?)

    This is not a risk I'm willing to take when a person can just as easily hit the macro again so no I'm against any changes being made to backpack consumables at this time. This comes especially at a time that we all KNOW the team is flooded with a new expansion, Account management AND getting UO ready for it's Steam debut.

    Again I vote no. I've stated everything I need to state and I'm out of this discussion.
     
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  41. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    This is turning into a bait and flame fest, So I'm locking the topic. If anyone wants to have a civil discussion on this topic please restart it.
     
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