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[Imbuing] Enhance before or after imbue?

Discussion in 'UO Craftsman' started by Mistura, Feb 1, 2010.

  1. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    Hi there, just looking for a bit of guidance.

    I am currently putting together a mage suit and want it to be reasonably high end. Most of the imbued parts are going to have either 2 or 3 top intensity properties such as LRC/MR/HPR. The rest is then going into resists.

    I realise that by using leather armor and enhancing to barbed once you have imbued your 5 props, you are getting higher overall resists.

    I have a feeling that this is going to be the only way for me to reach an all 70s suit with the properties I would like.

    Is this the way for everyone who is trying to craft high end armor parts??

    The reason i am asking is that I created a pair of arms with HPR2 and LMC8 and MR2 with 2 Resists maxed out and it broke on the enhance.

    What are the chances of successfully enhancing and is it really worth doing it?

    Any help appreciated, cheers.
     
  2. ZidjiN

    ZidjiN Babbling Loonie
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    I tryed to go the enhancing route but i failed so increadibly many times that i gave up.

    The overall resists doesnt need to get higher just because you imbue after wards. It would take hughe amounts of leather to get the right spreads from arms lore and the leather propertys though lol.

    One good thing with the ehancing route though is that you can get higher top resits. For exapmle, you can imbue a pair of gloves to have 17 Phys, if you after that enhance it with Spined you will bump Phys up to 22 phys, wich isnt possible to if you create it with spined from the begining.

    I dont know what you call high end. But here is my mage suit without any armor enhanced after it was imbued.

    all 70's
    41 LMC
    8 MR
    31 HPI
    16 MI
    70 DCI
    50 EP
    12 SDI ( :( )
    21 stats
    2/5 casting

    This is a none faction suit built for a parry mage if that matters.
    You could allways swap Stats/HPI/MI for HP regen, shouldnt be a problem really.
     
  3. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    what is the combination of items you are trying to build around? The reason I ask is because I was able to make 3 pieces for my folded steel, aof, inquis gloves, into an all 70's suit with no resists on the ring or bracelet. I started with barbed leather and made 3 pieces with max cold and energy on them(this took a TON of leather). Then I imbued lmc mr and lrc with 2 high resists on each piece. The final result is a suit that has(without faction arties)
    10mr
    40 lmc
    104 lrc yeah it's high but I had extra room and no extra slots
    70 dci
    2/6 casting
    50 ep
    1 handed Mage weapon with -20 +20 mods
    15 sdi
    I'm actually 83 fire so corpse skin has little effect.

    So far it has been really good. IMHO totem of void and crimson is enough hpr. Best of luck. It just takes some strategic planning with your base pieces to get you there.(and patience)
     
  4. ZidjiN

    ZidjiN Babbling Loonie
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    Yes and no tbh. 18 HPR really is kick as, i didnt like it before i tryed it :stir:

    Anyway Mistura:
    What Temple will you run?
    Faction or not?
    Sash or not?
    As far as im aware your rich enough to buy what ever arties you need right? :twak:
     
  5. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    Another route to consider:
    Imbue resist pre-enhance only. Then enhance. This way it only costs boura pelts.
    Once you have a piece with the right combo of resists put your lmc, lrc,mr on them.

    You do lose some intensity on the final product because if you imbue up to 500 then enhance you actually have a piece over 500. Your chances at successfully enhancing at this level are really, really bad though. I failed on 8 pieces before I gave up doing it this way.
     
  6. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    Thanks for the comments so far guys.

    Butters, your suit looks uber. I would like to have that but with the HPR instead of the stats. Can you give me an idea of what I need on each peice?

    Currently i'm trying to build my suit around Crimson, Totem of the void, HoM, AoF, Fey Leggings, Orny, Ecru Ring with 2 FCR, 15 DCI, 20 LRC. Not sure if I should perhaps ditch the HoM for Folded Steel and then maybe get rid of the Fey Leggings for crafted leggings?

    I don't fancy paying 50m for another sash atm. I do have one, but I hate switching between suits all the time, as I wil often forget it until I get the "More Regs Required" in the middle of a choke point in despise :<

    Excuse the noobish question but how do I boost the HPR to 18? Is it only possible with the crystaline? I do have a crystaline i can use but then i'd be short on DCI.

    This temp is pure mage with wrestle, so no mage weapon, i currently have an LRC scrappers equiped.
     
  7. ZidjiN

    ZidjiN Babbling Loonie
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    And no faction i asume?
    Whats your last skill? Scribe? Parry?

    Ive Build my suit around the following arties:
    Folded Steel Glasses
    Armor of fortune
    Fey Leggings
    Ornament of the mgician
    fcr2 Ecru (12sdi, 8dex)
    Crimson
    Quiver of infinity
    Totem of the void
    I use a shield for my suit with 15dci and resists, its a valorite enhanced shield so i think its 14 resist in total.

    Without Voice of the fallen king or faction Crystaline ring i dont think its a vallid choise to go for 18 HPR cause it would gimp your suit to much in other areas.
     
  8. ZidjiN

    ZidjiN Babbling Loonie
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    I just got an idea. :stir:
    You could get to 45 DCI and 18HPR. Is that enough for you? What will you use it for? PVM? PVP?

    Folded Glasses
    Fey Leggings
    Orny
    Crystaline Ring
    Invasion Spellbook
    Totem of the void
    Cloak of life
    Crimson
    Quiver of infinity
    Imbued Gorget: 20LRC, 2HPR
    Imbued Tunic: 20LRC, 2HPR
    Imbued Sleeves: 20LRC, 2HPR
    Imbued Gloves: 20LRC, 2HPR

    When crafting the armor you want to use a tailor with GM arms lore and using horned leather. You want parts with as low physical and energy as possible and 10+ in Fire cold & Poison.

    Then you want to imbue all pieces with 15phys, 2hpr, 20 LRC. That leaves 2 mods on every imbued part to fill the last 20LMC and what ever ellse you want to add to the suit(MR, HPI, MI, etc).

    The suit would give you
    70/70+/70+/70+/70+
    100% LRC
    45% DCI
    40% LMC
    16 HPI (from arties only)
    18 HPR
    50 SDI
    etc etc etc

    Looks like a nice suit if you ask me. The only down side as i see it is the 45DCI instead of 70 and the FCR on the book wich can be dissarmed.

    I could possibly but the armor parts together for you on europa. Crafted lots of normal horned leather lately.

    Peace out!
     
  9. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    Very interesting indeed. I wouldn't be able to run with 45 dci though, as you just get absolutely pummeled by the dexers :rant2:

    I am starting to think I might just forget about having high HPR on this character and look at just maxing out the rest of the important stuff.

    May even go parry on this char, at this time he is currently just wrestle scribe.

    What do your imbued parts look like Butters and how pricey were they to put together?

    Cheers! :pint:
     
  10. Diggity

    Diggity Guest

    I also find enhance after imbue is too failure prone. Since total resists are interdependent on how different pieces combine, an enhance failure also means having to rethink the suit build when a unique imbued piece is lost.

    For a barb leather suit, I would just craft exceptional barb pieces to begin with since you can imbue them now. For pieces with fire resist = 5, you minimize the loss of except/arms lore/material bonus resists.

    If I'm prioritizing DCI/resists, I'd go with ornie/folded steel/fey leggings/quiver/conjurer's garb/totem for the fixed pieces.

    That leaves imbuing 4 armor pieces and 1 ring + hands are free.

    Ring would be fcr 3, dci 15, sdi 12 + optional imbues (unless spellbook covers sdi & want to use imbued ecru here).

    Armor you will need to carefully select your crafted pieces. should be able to get to all 70's with 4 or 5 resist imbues. Need 4 LRC 20 imbues, 3 LMC 7/8 imbues. That will leave 8 for other imbues you can choose.

    This is only 60 dci, but you can swap the scrapper's for an invasion dci spellbook to get to 70 dci.
     
  11. ZidjiN

    ZidjiN Babbling Loonie
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    I could post more exact data when i come home. Dont have all the digits in my head :thumbdown:
    My 3 armor parts thats imbued uses 7LMC, 5HPI, 1 high resist, 1or2MR,.
    2 of the pasts uses 20 LRC and one part another high resist.

    ill post a better overview when i get home or i could poke you ingame if i find you around luna :drool:
     
  12. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    Yeah that would be easier for us both actually, you could just show me the suit in game instead of having to type it up!

    I'll be on tonight so i'll speak to you then, my icq is 51990034 in case you don't see me hanging around Luna :thumbup:
     
  13. Xzile98

    Xzile98 Guest

    Hey mate. Got slightly OT but I am interested in your original question as well...

    From what I have read, each resist the enhance modifies does a check (as in, a chance to fail)

    Both horned and barbed kits enhance lots of stats a small amount so they would do like 6 or 7 checks (which i think works out about 10% chance to pass overall)

    Spined kits, however, only enhance luck and physical so you have a must greater chance.

    Obviously, I havn't reid this but that's what I understand from reading up whilst I should've been working today...

    I am still looking for the answer though as to what's the best order to enhance/imbue in

    Any ideas?
     
  14. Xzile98

    Xzile98 Guest

    Hey mate. Played about some more with this last night:

    1: Only enhance with spined leather - the amount of changes is the smallest so, thus, you are more likely to pass.
    2: Success rate seems to be about 60% - be prepared to lose stuff...
    3: You must use normal leather to craft
    4: Although more risky/expensive, it makes a much better item to enhance at the end. If you dont, you lose one slot for luck (spined quality) and the item weight gets higher

    Basically, be prepared to lose anything you enhance... That's why I still think horned kit/normal leater is best as you don't have to pay for the expensive imbuing regs so much.

    It costs a lot but just playing with it for an hour, and about 7 horned kits, I got some really nice stuff.

    Highlight (sleeves):

    2mr
    20 LRC
    22 Phys
    19 Fire
    13Cold
    8 Enrg
    40 Luck
     
  15. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    I dont know if it was mentioned about how to cap HPR without the crystaline. [oh and i probably missed the post saying you werent in factions :)]

    3/1 hpr2 20lrc 15dci bracelet
    50EP 3fcr 15dci ring
    15dci hpr2 shield
    2hpr legs
    2hpr arms
    2hpr gloves
    2hpr crim
    2hpr totem
    Hmm, thats only 14 hpr but still thats pretty freaking awesome!!!

    Now if you are factions you use the earring things to allow you to wear elf armour...then imbue your woodland arms[get all those lovely 5mods on there] then...enhance with bloodwood. [very expensive route you will probs break 90% of your armour]

    You can do this route and rather than wear an aof go kasa pendant and that bloodwood chest thing with hpr 25rpd and 15dci[think it can be imbued for mage ar]
     
  16. aoLOLita

    aoLOLita Sage
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    You all must have unlimited Powder of Fortification...

    Don't forget when you enhance after Imbuing, you are stuck with the
    original 35-40ish Dur on the crafted item. I am strictly PvM but I can't imagine someone going through all this trouble and expense to have a key pc of armor go ::: Poof! :::: after one or two intense combats. It would be extremely expensive to PoF every piece of armor before Imbuing and then "risk" breaking it on the post enhancing...
     
  17. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Unfortunatly, enhancing after the imbue is the only way to get the best items.

    That way you can cram 6mods[on wood armour for example...on could be HCI...oh, this way you will also get ALOT of junk hits]

    And can get the best resists on leather. I think if memory serves i have 5mod 50resist pieces (might be a tad lower than 50 but i know 4of the resists are 13+)
     
  18. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    Thats how i got my best armour pieces, Imuing then enhancing.

    Yes it costs alot but you pay the price for quality :)

    The ones i needed high resist i did as the 2nd or 3rd post. Imbued the resist then enhanced.
     
  19. ZidjiN

    ZidjiN Babbling Loonie
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    Re: You all must have unlimited Powder of Fortification...

    Dont even talk about it :twak:

    I just imbued my 3 leather pieces of my tamers luck suit.
    Started of with Poffing the item to 255, then imbued luck to 100 and after then enhancing it with spined for 140 luck.
    I brooke 8 sleeves, 7 leggings but did succeed on the first pair of gloves.
    thats about 300 each failed atempt or something like that.

    But i did get them :)
     
  20. Xzile98

    Xzile98 Guest

    What did you enhance it with? Spined leather only performs the 70% 'check' twice I think for each enhance so you were either very unlucky, or you enhanced with horned/barbed which does a lot more 'checks'
     
  21. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Re: You all must have unlimited Powder of Fortification...

    At the current cost of PoF around 150k-400k, how easy it is to get chagga mushrooms, it'll be actually much much cheaper to make the pieces and don't run them up to 255 durability.

    Craft using regular leather. PoF up to 100 or not at all. Imbue 100 Luck and raise physical resist up to 100% or only 90%. Spined leather gives the extra 5 points.. I'd enhance at this point. Before wasting relic frags on LMC or MR. Possibly imbue more resists before enhancing. Doing it this way hurts a lot less when you break the pieces.

    Chagga mushrooms and boura pelts are two of the easiest to get imbuing resources. Imbuing resists up to 95% only uses 3 pelts also, instead of 10 at 100%.

    Once all the pieces are complete and even with lower durability, you've spent a ton less on the pieces even calculating for breakage. Replacing the armor will hurt less too, again, because the cost was much lower to begin with.

    I haven't actually done this. I'm basically thinking out loud. If I'm way off base lemme know.
     
  22. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Ok, just to see if I hadn't been smokin something when I made my last post, I made some luck sleeves.

    I made like 30 pieces to get six pieces with 3, 4 or 5 physical resist, very low.

    I used 60 chagga mushrooms, magical residue, citrine and diamond to imbue. Obviously I didn't PoF before I imbued them. I only went to 15 on phy resist so didn't use any boura pelts.

    I enhanced and succeeded on the very first piece then broke the remaining 5. I did get more than one attempt on 3 of the 5.

    Then I went back and imbued the LMC, used only 3 relic frags, luckily succeeded on the first attempt. Then added LRC using only magical residue and amber.

    As you can see there's still one imbue available for resists or whatever. However the intensity is already very high there.

    So, for the most part I made that piece very affordable. Basically only cost 3 relic frags and 60 chagga mushrooms. The rest is negligible. The only drawback I see now, is that the 5th imbue is gonna be damned hard because the overall intensity was made high after the enhance.

    To do it again, I'd PoF up to 100, probably go ahead and imbue all 5 properties figuring to eat the cost of the relic frags upon breaking most. Overall though, it doesn't appear, for now, to be insanely expensive to make great luck pieces.

    Just an additional FYI, this piece here is most probably a better luck piece then anything I ever enhanced from loot over the years.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Xzile98

    Xzile98 Guest

    if you enhance before imbue, I believe you lose the imbue 'slot' due to the added luck (unless you want luck)

    So, it's death or glory sadly.
     
  24. ZidjiN

    ZidjiN Babbling Loonie
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    I can see where your comming from.
    The thing is when it comes to my luck suit i couldnt care less about resist.
    140 LUCK
    20 LRC
    8 LMC
    2 MR
    Thats all that matters :)
     
  25. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    Well, you should break a bit less pieces then. Enhancing with spined only gives you two checks to break. Luck is unfortunately though, THE toughest property to enhance because the break percentage is so high. You'll have higher cost simply because you want 100% intensity properties. REally no way to avoid it. Looks like the biggest expense will be the relic frags for the LMC, the seeds of renewal, essence of order and faery dust. I'd probably PoF as well to make them last longer so that's even more expense. The rare ingredients and PoF are probably 95% of the cost to make pieces like that.

    At least for anyone not demanding 100% intensity, very nice pieces should be quite affordable to make.
     
  26. ZidjiN

    ZidjiN Babbling Loonie
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    Well im the fortunate kind. Guildys supplied everything but the faery dust.
    Cheers for that guys :pint:
    I dont know if i was more unlucky then i should have been but the PoF cost was around the 3 mill mark.

    Enhancing luck parts truly suck.
     
  27. When I try to imbue an item that is made from spined or barbed or horned leather I get a message that the materials in this special item are too old to survive imbuing. Is this because they are crafted and not enhanced with the special material?
     
  28. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    I just wanted to share a little trick that every artificer should know:

    You can save a lot of PoF, if you enhance metal items AFTER imbuing with dull copper, which will increase the durability by 100%. I estimate the fail rate to be below 5%, even lower if you use an ancient smithing hammer.

    If you do that, powder up the item to a maximum of 255/2 = 127 durability before imbuing. If you powder it higher, it will break on enhancing (because the total durability after enhancing would be >255, which is not allowed).

    You can also enhance it with shadow ore, which will increase the durability by 50% and add cold damage.

    This saves you a lot of Powder of Fortifying!
     
  29. ZidjiN

    ZidjiN Babbling Loonie
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    Old coloured armors and weapons that was crafted before the patch that let you imbue coloured items cant be imued. Only the items thats created after a certain patch can.
     
  30. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
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    I made some gloves like that and found it best to use a combination of runics and imbuing - avoiding enhancing altogether. Get a spined runic and craft pieces out of spined leather until you get a piece with 140 luck. In my case, I think the gloves had 140 luck and lower reagent 8% or something like that. I then imbued the other attributes I needed.

    Before that I broke countless pieces trying to obtain 140 luck and lower reagent 20. I ended up with even better armor than I was originally striving for by using the runic/imbuing method.
     
  31. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Uh, since when can you craft to 140?
     
  32. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    Spined kit for 100 luck and spined leather for 40=140 luck
     
  33. Any kit for 100 luck and spined leather for the extra 40 although if you are only making a luck suit spined kits are the cheapest way to do it (at least prior to imbuing and probably still yet)
     
  34. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    I'm confused. I have a 120 Tailor, a Spined runic sewing kit and spined leather - but I never make anything that has more than 40 luck.

    What am I missing?
    :confused:
     
  35. Exactly how many things have you made with a spined runic? I burned a few and got a total of one item at 140 luck but lots of stuff close to that. You should get numerous items over 40 luck with each runic.
     
  36. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Well, I only burned a dozen sleeves and all had exactly 40 luck...
    :sad4:
     
  37. Probably just bad rng luck :)