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Enhanced Client now completely unplayable

Discussion in 'UHall' started by hawkeye_pike, Oct 29, 2009.

  1. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    As we all know, the Enhanced Client already has a long list of bugs.

    A few days ago, a new bug appeared. It seems that screen content is loading very slowly and sometimes not at all. This leads to large black fields on the screen which you cannot enter. Sometimes, half the screen is black and you cannot move anymore. This happens mostly after recalling.

    This bug is even worse than the lag/client crash caused by big field spells (fighting the Slasher of Veils, Stygian Dragon and similar creatures with the EC is impossible, even on a high-end machine). It makes the Enhanced Client unplayable.

    A PLEA TO THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM:
    DON'T LET THE ENHANCED CLIENT DIE LIKE KR!
    It would be a shame, cause this client really has potential.
     
  2. pgcd

    pgcd Guest

    Having the same problem while hunting for red sparkies - fixed it by gating out and back in, which somehow seems to "nudge" the client into re-loading the stuff it needs.
    What I fail to understand is why the client should sometime unload some tiles - I'd guess it's trying to free memory, and using a rather* aggressive algorithm, or something like that.


    * as in "Extremely".
     
  3. Miriandel

    Miriandel Seasoned Veteran
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    I think it's lag.

    I had the same problem twice yesterday and it only happens in Fel champion spawns dungeons for some reason.

    The first time I didn't pay attention and continued to move, and then fell through the floor, in black tiles, and couldn't move out.

    The second time, I tried to make the missing tiles appear, with no success, and being a ninja I just reloaded the client while hidden and all was right.

    So this is definately a lag issue.

    Oh, and I would cancel my subscription should I be forced to play the 2D client.
    That was ok 12 years ago, it just doesn't cut it anymore.

    :grouphug:
     
  4. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    Wow.

    This is insane.

    Its not related to lag in my setup and its devastatingly annoying.

    Areas of the screen are black and completely inaccessible.

    I had to exit the client and restart at one point last night to get into blood dungeon.

    This only became manifest, for me, yesterday.
     
  5. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    Yeah.

    I got a very bad feeling reading the recent Draconi interview where he praised the 'stability' of the CC.
     
  6. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    I didn't see the black areas at all last night when I went running around for the Halloween essence stuff.
    What I did notice is that gypsy Alana at minoc was doubled up (like double vision) and her speach text was also double vision. (I felt like I needed to put on 3D glasses).
    I also saw a player on his charger just standing nearby, and he was double vision and twitching. This was very strange.
     
  7. Serine

    Serine Guest

    I dont play EC but isnt it said its Beta still and wil remain so untill all bugs are fixed ? If that is the case you should expect it be bad i guess :confused:
     
  8. Fink

    Fink Guest

    It's actually not "bad" to begin with, but lately it seems to be getting worse. Also work on it appears to have stagnated, which is in some ways even more worrisome.
     
  9. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    Well they took the 3d client away from us, so that forced a lot of us to go to KR then forced to EC. Didn't leave us much choice. The "beta" tag is BS. It could stay Beta for another 3 yrs. I can't deal with 2D (no offence to them).

    If I knew that 3D was going to be discontinued about 1 yr after I plunged into UO, then I might not have had enough incentive to join.
    I did (and continue) to have fun with this EC beta, but I feel a little let down. Also feeling worried why they can't fix the seemingly simple small bugs that would pretty much get this OUT of beta.
     
  10. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    I almost forgot: I was on the third level of destard, working the ancient wyrm, when the all of the sudden the second level of destard appeared on screen, the third disappeared and I was frozen in place.
     
  11. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    Yes, you are confused.

    The topic we are discussing is that the functionality of the client is regressing.
     
  12. maroite

    maroite Guest

    I noticed this too, but it only happens when I am in the lingering essence monster form.

    Also, you can recall out and back in and usually it fixes it.

    I admit it is very annoying though.
     
  13. Yep, same problem. The sad thing is my laptop runs the game better than my uber computer, not that it doesn't lag, but not nearly as bad. However, my laptop is not good enough to be my main computer...*cry*

    Don't make me go back to 2D!
     
  14. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    they should just forget about all this "new client" nonsense. it has been a failure 3 times now.

    work on "enhancing" the 2D client.
     
  15. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    ohh iam normally the one complaining so loud ;) no with the blackareas i have the same problem! But with the crashes and the unperformance i cannot confirm really.

    I think i have a good machine
    Intel Q6600 - @2.4Ghz
    4 GB Ram
    Ati 4890Xt - 1024MB
    Windows 7 x64 running

    and for me the fields are much much faster since the last patch, i got one crash after the patch, it is really stable for me now, it is all not but stable i would say ;)

    So i really like to help you out? What is your hadware config?
     
  16. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    I'm almost in agreement. Problem is, they gave us a taste of some goodness and now we're jonesing for some more.

    As far as enhancing the 2D, they can't do it efficiently. It's stuck as is... maybe a little tweak here and there, but it must be daunting work to try. Hence EC... combo of 2d and what was KR. If they had a switch for it to be 100% 2D client, would you use it?

    EC is a fine client... barely ever crashes for me (I was SICK of 2D and KR crashes).
     
  17. JPDefault

    JPDefault Guest

    Don't let it die, please! I just can't play the Classic Client.
     
  18. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    Yep i also cant play it! If the EC dies iam out forever ;)
     
  19. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    Please please please fix this bug, I have a 22 inch monitor and the EC client has been a god send to me.. If you get rid of it, I really really will reconsider if I want to go back to a tiny 800x600 screen. And infact I probably wouldnt..
     
  20. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    why do you call it "classic client"

    it is UO

    the "enhanced" client is not UO.
     
  21. Nenime

    Nenime Guest

    I commended the EC a few months ago for it's performance and stability. Now I'm disappointed and a bit embarrassed for doing so. I really hope it's just a temporary low-point in the development process.

    I have to admire Hawkeye's endurance and passion in addressing this problems.
     
  22. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    You would have to change your screen resolution down (you get huge words), and then 2D is playable. But it's almost 2010... do we really want to go back to that?

    Please let EC live on. Fix the bugs, then get working on making it irresistible.
     
  23. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    We call it the classic client because P.O.S. is not that polite, it stopped being UO 6 years ago get in the now.

    You have a nice car you take care of it you have a pos you abuse it.
     
  24. JPDefault

    JPDefault Guest

    I hope nobody will hijack this thread to turn it into yet another Classic users Vs Enhanced users flame fest.
    It's just about people manifesting their concern about a promising piece of software that (in our opinion) deserves a lot more interest and care from the developers team.
     
  25. Drawde2

    Drawde2 Guest

    They need to get rid of the original client to fix many of the bugs and exploits. That's one of the reasons they keep trying. The original client CAN'T be fixed without being completely rewritten. Which is basically what a new client is.

    Yet many of the same people who keep complaining about all the exploits keep saying that they can't stand the new clients because they're not exactly like the original. Including any improvements and bug fixes.

    As for the bug mentioned, I only noticed it when in monster form, collecting essences. I had to relog in order to fix it. I'd often be able to recall or telelport (going up stairs in a dungeon) a couple of times before it would mess up again. I could still recall out, but the problem would get worse each time.
     
  26. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Gotta agree with the OP (not with the confused individual who seems to have found themselves in the wrong thread).

    The EC has taken too many steps backwards from KR and in the process has accumulated a new list of annoying bugs both minor and major.

    And yet, production on the new client has been less than stellar in the past month or more.

    Some of the bugs that were persistent in KR are STILL IN the EC and WORSE than they were in KR (notably the "You cannot pick that up" bug).

    I think the current status of the EC is actually WORSE than KR was when it was shut down. Sure a few UI bugs are fixed from KR and new UI enhancements are in, but MANY more bugs were either retained or created, useful UI elements have been wasted to go backwards to the "Legacy" versions which now hide in the game files and cannot be touched anymore, and of course the graphics and countless graphical issues.

    The current EC strategy has been a HUGE mistake. If they are going to keep 2d, then they NEVER should have shunted the quality of the EC as it has NOT gained ground in converting people from 2d and has angered the people who DID move over to the KR client. Thus in its current state, the EC is in a lose-lose situation.

    As much as I want each client to be that much better than the one it replaces, I cannot say that this is happening with the Enhanced Client right now.

    It's a shame because I really like the new content and enjoy UO as a whole. I just want the quality of the look of the game to be equal to the game experience and neither client (for different reasons) do that right now. Right now UO lives in spite of, not because of its clients.
     
  27. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    They just don't have the resources to speedily work on the Enhanced Client. Either EA will give more support or they will have to fix it at a slow pace. UO development was completely stalled for 2 years because of the missteps taken with Kingdom Reborn. They simply cannot do the same thing again.
     
  28. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    I would say it was more due to the move cross-country and losing over half the client building team than the client itself.

    But then I will always hold the position that the team failed the client, the client did not fail the team.
     
  29. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    The move to Virginia was 2 months after the official Kingdom Reborn release and the mass rejection of the client due to massive bugs and performance issues.

    Even after 4 years of work, the Enhanced Client can't even come close to matching the performance of the 2D Client.
     
  30. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    What are you talking about? The performance is fine for me, it certainly renders as many frames fluidly as 2d does. Bugs are the issue here.
     
  31. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    If you get a sizable amount of players on your screen (20) it starts to lag. If you get hundreds (such as the events on Atlantic) the client crashes. If you are in a fight and there are lots of particle effects going off the client lags.

    Even if you are the only person on the screen, the Enhanced Client loads objects much more slowly than 2D. While 2D can load hundreds of objects in under a second, it takes the EC 3 or more seconds to finish loading the same amount.
     
  32. Gladius

    Gladius Guest

    I read and decided to up this unfortunate post. The plea is very important more so to players who have continued to play on after all these years only to be given an illusion that the game has been improved.

    How can EA once again as in the case they did with KR release a client which apparently is still in it's experimental stage at the expense of it's subscribers is beyond me? There is apparently only one reason and that is greed. Like vultures who stalk the dead and make them it's prey.

    These are disgusting news even for me who has stopped playing the game. It only shows the wanton callousness of EA and it's stooge developers of their continuous neglect. People of Sosaria AWAKEN!

    -G-
     
  33. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Don't see how it can be greed.
    Since it was free...and not even required to play the new expansion.
    *shrugs*
    that doesn't seem to fit this scenario.
     
  34. Gladius

    Gladius Guest

    Well let's say it isn't GREED then what huh? Moronic adventures are they?
     
  35. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Lets remember when your comparing the EC with the 2d Client that the 2d client was developed over the last 12 years...

    The EC is no where near that old...

    Much as I hate the EC I would like to see it fixed up to where I can play it. Which means they have a bunch of work to do. Stability fixes, returning some of the function that was in KR... and over time adding and updating the art files to look better.

    I also want to see them work on fixing up the client so that people can add far more enhancements. But giving us more choices would help a bunch.
     
  36. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    It's not greed, but more along the lines of mismanagement, something that has plagued the Ultima name since at least as far back as Serpent Isle and has affected the title ever since up to and including current day UO.

    I understand that the Devs want the best for the game... I can see that in what they've given us so far, but at the same time, I can't sit idly by and watch the same thing happen client after client after client.

    The devs have said that it's easier to update Gamebryo AND the Legacy client than it was 2d and 3d. Ok, I can go with that, and with netbooks becoming common can see an additional niche for UO's legacy client (especially traveling as much as I have this year with a relatively heavy laptop).

    So with a decent reason to keep 2d active, there's no reason I can think of for the SA client to have been such a HUGE step backwards in graphical quality AND have the numerous bugs, glitches, and annnoyances that it has.

    So, consider it a change or evolution in opinion, keep 2d, but reverse the gimping of the new client. Allow the client to be more of a higher-end tech client option instead of one that was compromised to appease both sides and in the end appeased noone.

    The Gamebryo client HAS potential... the problem is that the EC isn't showing an advancement in that potential over KR and likely is in its current form showing LESS realization of that potential than KR was at this point in time.
     
  37. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Well, there are massive performance issues if you have many particle effects on the screen. On Catskills, the murderers built lots of small houses around the Yew Moongate area, and they ALL put many waterfalls into their house design. If you run through the area with the EC, you get lagged like hell due to the water animation.

    If you enter the Stygian Abyss through the Tomb of Kings, the (animated) lava fields near the entrance lag you extremely as well, especially when you have a big screen (I always run through this area zoomed completely in to avoid lag).

    Nova spells (the big fire fields) cast by the Slasher of Veils, Stygian Dragon and other monsters cause a 10-60 seconds screen freeze (increasing over time), and after a while a client deadlock. Same problem here.

    So yes, performance is an important issue.

    (I use a dual core 3GHz machine with 2GB RAM and a Geforce 7600 video card with 512 MB memory.)
     
  38. Gladius

    Gladius Guest

    I am pretty sure these are just the tip of the iceberg on the EC problems. We still say if those concerned to delivered a better "enhanced" client skimmed on the good part of things just to keep the natives satisfied and maintain their patronage spells GREED all the way.

    But then again that has been our opinion since we left the game.

    -G-
    (Still hoping for better things to happen)
     
  39. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    I agree JC.

    The load times are slow.

    Sadly, the EC client seems worse than KR and has many bugs.

    If 2D client supported higher resolutions I would scrap the EC client.
     
  40. Darn

    Darn Visitor
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    I honestly appreciate the effort Hawkeye puts into this topic. Thank you very much!

    Personally, I do not understand why people prefer other clients than the 2D-Client. I still love its look, I still love the love for the detail, it simply reminds me of the old times. I will never ever change to an 3D client. But I admit, a modern engine would attract more new players.

    Oh: BTW: I play UO on an 37 Zoll Full HD LCD, no problem at all. But agreed: would be nice if the 2D client could handle very high resolutions.
     
  41. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    JC, Hawkeye.

    I run 1920 x 1200 windowed or 1440x9*0 full screen on mediocre hardware. One is nvidia based notebook, the other an ATI based desktop.

    I have no issues whatsoever with animated lava or water.

    I have not been to an event with hundreds of characters on screen. I have been in situations with twenty or so and experienced no lag beyond the inherent latency associated with syncing up that many characters.

    The only slow load times I get are in Luna and that is network lag, not client rendering. Same thing happens in 2d.

    The primeval lich generates a ton of particle effects and I do not have any screen freezes or crashes.

    I am not suggesting that others do not have performance issues, but that is certainly not my issue with the EC, its the obnoxious bugs. Performance is quite so good, in fact, that I am surprised to hear others have these issues.

    I would guess due to the intermittent manifestation of these issues that there may be differences in local configuration that are partially responsible. Again, the main machine I play on is mediocre, its a backup development workstation, not a gaming rig.

    The essential problem here seems to be derived from the licensing on an inappropriate third party rendering engine instead of simply coding *exactly* what this game needs in house.

    Painting sprites on polygons to emulate a sprite based engine sounds like a ridiculous kludge and just the kind of bull**** decision that comes out of an organization like EA (though not necessarily the actual developers).

    Modern hardware could easily support an exponentially higher resolution sprite engine.

    I have a feeling they are going to scuttle it.

    I have been playing EC exclusively for a few months and prefer it over 2d because of its increased interface capabilities and aesthetic.

    This black hole bug, however, may end that because areas of the map are becoming inaccessible until I restart the client. Totally unacceptable.
     
  42. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    I was victim of the black areas last night. I don't know why all of a sudden. Perhaps it was the windows Vista updates? I'm now on DirectX 11, but I know my hardware is limited to DX10. It did work fine on Wed even after the update and reboot. Thursday started the black area problem all of a sudden.
    Anyway, very unplayable when the black area appears and I cannot continue on. I was in monster form getting the lingering sparkles, but still happened regardless of form. I have to log out and back to temp fix.

    So I'm not sure if it's the Vista updates that broke anything (doubt it since it worked fine that day), or is it these new sparkles that are causing a rip in the space-time continuum.
     
  43. Yen Sid

    Yen Sid Guest

    I use Windows 7 so its not just Vista that this happens to. If you can mangage to walk around a corner of the black area it generally will go away. Sometimes it stretches from wall to wall so its impossible but if you can its easier than logging out an in again.

    I really hope they are fixing this. I can't be forced to play 800x600 again, its almost 2010 for crying out loud. I have a 22" monitor or a 40" HDTV to play on, not a 15" CRT. I really need this to work or I might not be able to play UO ever again after the EC is taken away. :sad2::(
     
  44. pacific lily

    pacific lily Guest

    I'm having the issue with the black areas too. This is new for me since I think publish 61. I had the problem in KR quite frequently but hadn't had it with the EC until the last week or so. It's particularly bad inside dungeons. I also just got a new computer but I checked on the older one and it's got the same issue so I don't think it's that.

    I don't have ANY lag issues, but I never did with KR either. I am playing on a very clean 32bit vista installation on a brand new iMac. The only program I have installed besides UO is Vent. :) I've always wondered if some of the lag I had on older computers wasn't because of all of the other crap i had installed.

    To the person who wants to know why anyone plays EC? Well, I have a 27" monitor and the tiny game window of 2D is ridiculously small on here. I prefer to play with the game window stretched from edge to edge and I can do that with the EC. And yes, I know i COULD change the resolution of my display and make 2D fit better, but then it would look like Leisure Suit Larry.

    lily
     
  45. SchezwanBeefy

    SchezwanBeefy Lore Master
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    I'm a little bit surprised that a Dev has yet to reply in this thread. Sounds like a very serious issue, not just a little one.
     
  46. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    So you do experience lag. The 2D Client does not lag when 20 people are on the screen.
     
  47. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    Not anymore than 2d. Its individual characters who pop around a bit, presumably because of their connection differentials creating greater periodic corrections in position.
     
  48. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Other player's connections have zero effect on what you see. All your data comes from the shard server. They could be lagging with 1000 ping but that won't delay you seeing them.
     
  49. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    I don't know how you can make that statement.

    Their latency affects the frequency with which their position can be corrected between their client and the server which is then transmitted to me at the frequency with which I receive my updates.

    Edit: maybe I am misinterpreting what you are saying? I never meant that there was a lag with a character 'appearing' on screen, if that was how you perceived it. I am talking about updates on screen during a field fight, etc. My experience in this regard is that the clients are essentially the same.
     
  50. Masuri

    Masuri Seasoned Veteran
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    I just wanted to say: this isn't a new bug, it existed in KR, and there have been reports of it in EC for months. Not everyone gets it -- I haven't seen it myself in EC ever and it's the only client I play. So it doesn't make the client unplayable in that broad kind of sense, and suggests that individual hardware conflicts are at the root of the problem (it just screams "texture memory issue" to me).

    That isn't to say that the team should be let off the hook for failing to work overtly on the EC. Of course we hold them responsible, and of course we want them to fix all of the outstanding bugs and conflicts, both the ones that affect us personally, and those that don't. But maybe let's not call "sky is falling" when it's just another cloudy day?