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Enter the "Super" Dragon....

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Hunters' Moon, Feb 16, 2008.

  1. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    I have been reading most of the specific guild forums the last couple of days and I have seen where posters are saying. "I have all 70's suit and I am getting one-hit killed by the new super dragons." But with this last statement I am also reading tamers say "Me and my friends got 3-4 of the supers in 15 minutes"

    I don't mean to beat a dead horse here but I felt I had to say something. How is this balanced? Something that one-hit kills one template is so easily controlled by another. How is this even close to being fair? Didn't we go through something like this earlier? I think it was the ornate ax with double strike? Those ended up being fixed so a pvp fight could last longer then 2 seconds.

    I feel what should be done is either,bring the dragon back down to earth in skill or make the new dragon untamable and bring the already tamed dragons back in line with normal dragons. As I see it,the new dragons are to tamers what a weapon with 100% hit flamestrike would be for dexxers...actually...the dragon would be stronger...
     
  2. SixUnder

    SixUnder Legendary Assassin
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    untamed wild super dragons are absoulty viscious. and will pound you dead.

    after you tame one, blah. kinda weak if you ask me. they hit hard if they are on you but what pet doesnt?

    after one of these is tamed they are nothing. its teh ones in the wild ya have to watch for.
     
  3. even wild super dragons only 1 hit ppl who aren't wearing very good resists.

    I've been fireballed by max hp superdragons and I wasn't even close to dead.

    People complaining about getting 1 hit killed aren't getting killed by 1 hit. They may be getting killed in 1 round, but not in 1 hit. If you get fireballed by 2 super dragons at the same time, you will die.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    People complaining about getting 1 hit killed aren't getting killed by 1 hit. They may be getting killed in 1 round, but not in 1 hit. If you get fireballed by 2 super dragons at the same time, you will die.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    ...or a combo from one dragon, like the ever popular firebreath/flamestrike/claw combo that lands at the same time so it seems like one hit.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    oki, my experiences. I didn't rely on friends to help me get a dragon, I did it by myself.

    1. Super they may be by comparrison to today's dragons, but compare them to the way a dragon felt in pre AoS invul armour and they're about the same.

    2. I was peacing on an ethy, dismounting when peace succeeded and taming on foot. When peace broke and I had to leggit I was able to so far outdistance it, running on foot, to be able to re-mount my ethy.

    3. I was wearing crafted dull copper/verite armour. Not some uber arti kit. I died 3 times in a whole hour of playing cat and mouse with these things in Ilshenar.

    4. It did a maximum of 92hp damage on my char with it's fire breath, which it didn't use particularly often. Provided I made sure I stayed at full health, not ignoring even small damage from lighting blasts, I survived pretty well. Mostly I died because I got paralised and I had neither resist skill nor trapped box.

    Don't cross your bridges before you come to them, stop listening to the scaremongering and try them before you panic.
     
  6. You must enjoy complaining just for the sake of it.

    They are not that tuff.

    People on these boards are just pi$$ed lately.

    You can take one down quite quickly; and that is before they are tamed.

    After they are tamed, they are like the stuffies we got for Valentine's day.

    Get a grip and quit trying to fight dragons in your undies.
     
  7. ... and keep clean undies ?
     
  8. <blockquote><hr>

    I have been reading most of the specific guild forums the last couple of days and I have seen where posters are saying. "I have all 70's suit and I am getting one-hit killed by the new super dragons." But with this last statement I am also reading tamers say "Me and my friends got 3-4 of the supers in 15 minutes"

    I don't mean to beat a dead horse here but I felt I had to say something. How is this balanced? Something that one-hit kills one template is so easily controlled by another. How is this even close to being fair?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yep, my Warrior has 70 70 70 70 70 resist suit and gets instakilled, my tamer has 0 0 0 0 0 resists and dragon makes no damage to tamers at all since we have this magic shield that protects us from every attack, actually they added godmode for us tamers so we can tame these super dragons easily without them making any damage to us.

    CMON! How do you think they tamed these 3-4 in 15 minutes if they instakill everything?... Us tamers get killed just as easily as any other char so get over it...
     
  9. "Something that one-hit kills one template is so easily controlled by another. How is this even close to being fair?"

    You're talking about 2 players with 2 completely different goals in mind. The Tamer goes in with the specific goal of walking out with a live, tamed dragon. The warrior/mage/insert template here goes in with the specific goal of killing the same dragon.

    I haven't been out yet to tame one of these, but the first time I saw the post containing the phrase you quoted it was quite easy to realize how they were doing it. It's no different than the way I used to walk right by Rend and tame reptalons in seconds. It's also no different than the way I would walk up to a Cu Sidhe and have it tamed in seconds also.

    2 different goals, 2 different approaches, 2 different end results. You can't compare them to be "fair".
     
  10. Stigmatas

    Stigmatas Babbling Loonie
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    2 words:

    honor taming


    Or

    14 words

    Get a buddy or two or three or four and make em heal ya.

    As soon as I burn all my bkits and runic hammers, and get 5 thousand super dragons tamed, I plan on melee'ing the supers in Destard. I think I'll do fine. Ya guys just need to use tactics to achieve yer goals. Arrrr.

    Why did I start talking like a pirate at the end of that post? I think I need to sleep.

    Yarr.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Waht is godmod taming??

    You forget after taming the new dragons have half of HP!
     
  12. Kat SP

    Kat SP Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    1. Super they may be by comparrison to today's dragons, but compare them to the way a dragon felt in pre AoS invul armour and they're about the same.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Prodo shard PvPer's may well be able to handle a beast like this with all 70's suits and their buffs, but you know full well that we don't run those types of extremely high-end suits on Siege. Even the best equipped players on Siege don't run anything close to a high-end prodo suit.
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>


    3. I was wearing crafted dull copper/verite armour. Not some uber arti kit.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No I wasn't forgetting that.
     
  14. Dont these dragons take up all 5 slots?
    so doesnt this mean a tamer cant ride a mount while controlling one?
    If this is the case they will be useless in pvp
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yes tamer is on foot, but the fear is more ninja/tamers I think who will use animal form.

    Although since the dragon can't keep up with a tamer on foot, (unless it teleports, which I wouldn't like to have to rely on) only the (ab)use pet balls (which is something discussed in another thread) is going to prevent the dragon from being left behind.

    A mounted opponent can run rings around these slow coaches.

    While I don't think they're something easily dismissed, nor do I think they're the bĂȘte noir people are seeing them as.

    I advise, wait till they're bonded and being used, till people have a chance to study and devise tactics, before declaring they're overpowered and pvp is dead. (again)
     
  16. A tamer brought one to yew on gl and it didnt work so well for that tamer.
    Granted she wasnt a ninja so the being on foot thing meant she died in two seconds and every red there killled the super dragon.
     
  17. Lug

    Lug Lore Master
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    We had them on atlantic too. A blue tamer hugging the guard zone with healers for her and her dragon. The thing was unbonded and was in no danger of dying with three people healing and curing it. When it was in danger of dying she'd recall and logout to save it from dying. The thing didn't die until it went grey at which point every person in the area ganked it out of frustration.

    That was just one tamer and one dragon. I can imagine the damage a team of two or three dismounting-mage-tamers with trained rune bugs and super dragons cross healing each other and each others pets, can cause. It's not going to be a pretty sight on the battlefield, or these message boards when that happens.
     
  18. Xin Law

    Xin Law Guest

    super dragons suppose to take up 5 slots. right?
     
  19. Dragons used to be formidable opponents and they are again formidable opponents. They are not supposed to be the easy targets they were before the change.

    They can have a lucky combo (firebreath, spell and wrestling), but many years ago they could also one hit kill peeps. But this can happen with other monsters too.

    Even you do everything correctly, there is a risk to be killed. This is how it should always have been.
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I do find his writing skill superb how he crafted his paragraph in a way to make it almost seem he was refering to tame Dragons and that this was the end of the world [​IMG].
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I would like to know how these supposed 70's suits let you get one hit killed by a super dragon ?!?!?

    My tamer has a 70's suit and the absolute most damage a super dragon could do with one hit was 53, and if your stupid enough to stand there and try and heal yourself... your a dead man.

    The super dragon hits with combo's which is good... i died quite a few times trying to tame it.. and to be honest, instead of being shirty about dieing so much, i actually enjoyed the challenge... and when it was finally tamed, it felt like the dragon was worth it.
     
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I like to know how is an elder peacer to peace such a beast at 110 skill when you get the message you have no chance to peace this creature. Guess we have to be 120? Anyone know for sure?
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The tamed Super Dragon does not one hit kill. It can two hit kill which is the same as a Rune Beetle and Nightmare combination.
     
  24. Hunters' Moon

    Hunters' Moon Grand Inquisitor
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    <blockquote><hr>

    I like to know how is an elder peacer to peace such a beast at 110 skill when you get the message you have no chance to peace this creature. Guess we have to be 120? Anyone know for sure?

    [/ QUOTE ]hmm wait really? An elder bard has no chance to peace the dragon but an elder tamer can tame one?? Come on Dev! Make things balanced with this!
     
  25. Stigmatas

    Stigmatas Babbling Loonie
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    Yes unfortunately most high end stuff requires a bard to be 120/120 in barding skills or your gonna fail a lot. When they were on Test Center I was using a 120/120 peacer and a reptile slayer and could barely keep it peaced. No chance on prod shards where my peacer is only 115/115.

    If you need to tame it, well, figure it out. It should be hard to tame. Get some people to help or figure it out on your own. Honor taming does work well. (God mode taming lawl). If your gonna kill them, well, kill em. They are not the hardest thing in game by far.

    And for the record they do not 1 hit kill unless your suit sucks. I got firebreathed by a PARAGON Super Dragon and lived. I also got bit by one and lived. Its the combos and paralyze's that git ye. Also killed 2 of the paragon super dragons with my disco tamer (cu sidhe) and a friend helping to heal. Was no sweat. Well, maybe a little sweat. Probably could have soloed the thing if I needed to by mounting when in trouble and healing back up. Rinse, repeat.

    If you suck at something, and lord knows we all have, work at it and figure it out. Thats what UO's all about.
     
  26. eolsunder1

    eolsunder1 Guest

    The good thing is they don't register as "dragons" when using my enemy of one, so with that on i can distinguish the difference, but I do wish they were different in colors so people can tell which is a regular dragon and which is a "super dragon" without running up to it and hitting it a few times.

    The only pvp character that should have any chance of actually using these in combat are dismount ninja tamers. A regular tamer probably won't do much since they are easy targets for reds, they won't have the speed/skills to escape.

    But everyone will soon have their ninja/dismounter/tamer with these things. Why not, its the perfect template for a 5 slot creature. Stealthing. Heavy xbow or bola to dismout opponent while you use pet ball/logging to get your dragon to appear and "all follow" "all kill" them.

    Thus you can slow your opponent to start, and animal form to keep up with the dragon, and hiding/stealth to keep safe while dragon works.
     
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Dragons used to be formidable opponents and they are again formidable opponents. They are not supposed to be the easy targets they were before the change.

    They can have a lucky combo (firebreath, spell and wrestling), but many years ago they could also one hit kill peeps. But this can happen with other monsters too.

    Even you do everything correctly, there is a risk to be killed. This is how it should always have been.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I completely agree. Which is why they should NOT be tameable so that they can be used by players against players.

    If you want to build a super creature that is extremely difficult to kill by any template, that is fine. But why them make it extremely easy for a tamer to tame one and both use its great power against players and super dragons themselves? That just makes them formidable against everyone except tamers.
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I don't think they'll be nearly as damaging in PvP once those tamers look at them properly. For starters, they have a higher taming requirement than the runeys do. So a PvP tamer with half a brain, who keeps his/herself at the lowest taming skill to give 100% control, is going to have to drop skill elsewhere and train taming to own these. I expect a bit of caution till they're field tested properly, then some tamers might train and try them, and the runey or kitsune combo will still be on top.

    Wenchy
     
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Great Wyrms have a Barding Difficulty of 160.0. I've seen Bards with 120 Music/120.0 Peace and Gwenno's Harp (Reptile Slayer) fail most of the time to peace them, and when they do succeed, they only stay peaced for a few seconds.

    I've tamed tons of them with my Tamer/Mage. I don't Beat Down Tame, Para Tame, Peace Tame, or Honor Tame these, just Lead Tame. Most of the time i don't even have Healers and have to keep myself healed. My Tamer/Mage has 120.0 Taming/120.0 Lore/GM Vet/GM Magery/GM Eval/GM Med/80.0 Resist, Real. Use a suit with 70 Physical Resist, 70 Fire Resist, 75 Energy Resist and 45% DCI along with Swords of Prosperity for defense when taming them. Have 2/5 Casting.

    In a decent suit, their' spells can be easily mini-healed through while taming, only time you need to use a Greater Heal is when they Bite/Claw you, or ready a Greater Heal when you see them start to breathe fire. With Max Physical/Fire Resist, their' Claws/Bite does 40s damage, while their Firebreath does 60 Damage at most. With 80.0 Resist, their' Paralyze is not a problem at all. However their' Poison with their' 110-135 Magery can be annoying for when i ready a Greater Heal when i see them start to breathe fire, and the instant there Firebreath hits me doing 60 damage, they Poison me, so gotta cancel my heal and Cure.
    Only time i get killed by them is when i get unlucky with a combo of their's, like a Firebreath/Teleport/Bite, or when i get multiple things on me.

    They have been PvP Tested on TC by several players, and they are balanced. They may be tanks, but a Rune Beetle+Bake Kitsune (Or any other 2+3 Combo) has higher burst damage. Plus they're rather slow. Only unbalancing thing about them was that the higher end Health Great Wyrms were cabable of taking 2/3s of the life of a player with Firebreath when the Great Wyrm was at full health.

    Here is the current Stats/Resists/Skills of my new Great Wyrm i got today, been training it almost all day. My old Great Wyrm i gave to a friend, it is currently at 114.5 Wrestling/114.4 Tactics, and still gaining. It should be able to reach 117.6 Wrest/121.7 Tact.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  30. <blockquote><hr>


    I completely agree. Which is why they should NOT be tameable so that they can be used by players against players.

    If you want to build a super creature that is extremely difficult to kill by any template, that is fine. But why them make it extremely easy for a tamer to tame one and both use its great power against players and super dragons themselves? That just makes them formidable against everyone except tamers.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Keep in mind that once tamed their HP is halved (hence the damage they do with firebrath too)and that they lose skills
     
  31. The biggest problem I find, is that Peacer's are doing it wrong.

    It seems if you area peace you chances to peace are way higher.

    I am working on a bard now which isn't even gm yet, and he can peace a lot of critters when he is area peacing.

    They might not be peaced long but it works.
     
  32. Stigmatas

    Stigmatas Babbling Loonie
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    Some good tips in there. I prefer the god mode taming LOL. Of course that method is not fullproof as it takes awhile to build honor back up and it don't last long. Usually only get a few tries before it bites ya.

    I've managed to tame a few of them already and I've not had much more time to go kill a bunch to see if a nice one spawns. But I've gotten a couple with 800 to well over 900 HP and over 333 total resists.

    Rumor mill has it that max resists is 365. I can't confirm but from what I've seen, thats pretty close. But any tamer worth a crap should be able to take a mediocre tame and wtfpwn anything anyway [​IMG]

    I have some really nice cu's and those 2 decent dragons, but I'm not one to spend my UO life looking for the perfect pet. Being a tamer is UO in easy mode anyway :p. No offence tamers :p. There are plenty of swords out there for me to make/find.

    Still searching for the perfect sword [​IMG]
     
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I like to know how is an elder peacer to peace such a beast at 110 skill when you get the message you have no chance to peace this creature. Guess we have to be 120? Anyone know for sure?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I am a 120 music peacer and use a reptile slayer and still fail 70% of the time.