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Event Drop System Failure OR???

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Nails Warstein, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. Nails Warstein

    Nails Warstein Rares Festival Silent Auctioneer
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    Last night June 22nd, I logged onto Catskills at 6pm EST to destroy Exodus, and ended my evening at 1am EST by destroying Exodus on Pacific. On every shard (Atlantic, Catskills, Origin, and Pacific) I was fortunate enough to gain a Scroll Of Valiant Commendation. I use the same Magery/Mysticism/Spellweaving scrolled out template to do events on all the shards.

    Tonight on June 23rd, I logged onto every shard from 9pm - 1pm EST (Chesapeake, Great Lakes, Lake Austin, Legends, and Napa Valley) Using the same scrolled template, doing significant damage, I was only able to obtain 2 Scroll Of Valiant Commendation. Many friends and guild mates had much less success tonight. Was this intentional? If so, WHY???
     
  2. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    so, according to what I read this morning, you got $600 worth of scrolls, and pissing and moaning cause ya didnt get more?

    smh
     
  3. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Sounds like they fixed a bug to me if that's true.
     
  4. John Merchant

    John Merchant Journeyman
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    Uriah and legendsguy,

    Both of you sound like ignorant children. Nails makes a very succinct point. Do not cast barbs at him, because you lack the energy and/or discipline to handle multiple events and shards. The two of you are what is wrong with UO. The good that nails does for the people in this game, is what is right about UO.

    Now go crawl back into your holes.
     
  5. Nails Warstein

    Nails Warstein Rares Festival Silent Auctioneer
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    $600????? I have friends who have been buying these for 45 - 55m, but I do see them on Atlantic vendors for 100m. Not pissing and moaning at all, just concerned that there may be a problem with the event drop system. I have friends on Catskills who didn't get Jack Passer's Surcoat when 100 were supposedly dropped, only 60 players max were there, very few got one, myself included. As for those who hate me, none can't hate me more than I hate myself most days.
     
  6. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Dude...Legendsguy might be over the top a bit. But seriously, UO doesn't owe anyone a scroll on every shard they can create a char on. Ya win some, ya lose some. That's the nature of the beast. *shrugs*
    Otherwise, events should be quick and easy, just a ceremony to dedicate the vending machine of the week...

    And no, I *don't* play every shard to loot them of event items. I play ONE shard, as a member of it's community, and I'm very dedicated to it. Shard xfers were the worst thing they ever did to UO, I wish they had raised the monthly rates a couple of dollars to make more $$ and passed on that money grab of xfer tokens. I don't know Nails, but if I did, the reponse would be the same. No one deserves the best of every shard, because no one can completely be a part of every shard. One, sure. Two shards, yeah I can see that for some peeps, but over two you can't be a complete supporter of any of their communities.

    Now I shall go crawl back in my hole. It's my world there, and everyone I made up likes me ;)
     
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  7. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    And for the record, just to be clear. I am not h8ing on Nails, not at all. We just have differing opinions on things, hopefully we can both just agree to disagree and go have a beer!
    =)
     
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  8. Larisa

    Larisa Reporting Manager
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    This thread isn't about how many scrolls Nails got...lets put that aside for a sec and look at what he's asking.

    I got a scroll on my tamer..I didn't use a pet...all I did was cast EV's and healed the people that were killing Exodus. I honestly think that the drop system is mean to give EVERYONE a chance to get a scroll no matter what their template is. In my opinion, I think it depends on how many people are there and what templates are there. Maybe there were more people healing, maybe there were more pets..I don't know...maybe it's all totally random but considering the fact that I got one, and I did VERY little damage to Exodus leads me to believe that it's a matter of luck and that's all.
     
  9. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    The simple answer to this question is the one everyone knows full well applies, RNG, so lets stop with the conspiracy theories please.

    There will be other opportunities to get these scrolls, I firmly believe that because I know Mesanna, she knows what she's doing.
    You know it too if you actually take a minute to stop and think.

    I attended the event on Siege last night, I didn't get a scroll, I didn't really expect to. I'm not in a panic over it, and neither should you be.

    I will be attending the event on Europa on Monday night, I don't expect I'll get a scroll there either, but I'll go just to be there.

    Anyone buying these ridiculously priced scrolls is, I believe, going to regret it when they find they didn't need to do that to get them
    and anyone who's buying the ones on vendors that have characters names attached, well they're just gullible. Those scrolls have been used, they're worthless.
     
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  10. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    Did the event on Napa, was glad i got the books. No stats scrolls, don't realy care. Later today i fight for Drachenfels., again i expect nothing. :)
     
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  11. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    cya there :) Just to make sure i get my place, im at the EM hut now waiting...
     
  12. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Then might I suggest you move? Unless it's different on Drachs, the event starting point is Dupre's camp on the road from Trinsic towards Brit :D
     
  13. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    The event starts from the tents but the EM will open gates from Luna,Britain bank and Britain councelors hall before the event.
     
  14. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    Your place is behind Frarc's big shield..... just make sure no ones hit my camera! ;)
     
  15. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    I used a rather off-the-shelf Greater Dragon, as I'm not one to go looking for an uber-dragon to tame and release any others I had before. I got a scroll on Lake Austin. Besides vetting it rarely (mostly to heal it up after it died), I would occasionally rez someone or give them a heal, with nearly all my mana going to my Bard provo mastery. I wonder if all those 13-16 points I healed myself and my dragon for every 4 seconds counted as healing credit?

    Then again, one of my other alliance members was there with an archer, and she got a scroll too.

    Two completely different set-ups, 2 scrolls.

    One possibility is that the "lost connection, lose drop credit" bug might still be in play, as even though we moved into the big room, many people still lost connection 1-2 times during that massive fight.
     
  16. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Oh, never being one to attend these events, i thank thee for the heads up
     
  17. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Im not shy, i will hide behind anyone who has a big enough shield :cool:
     
  18. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I respectfully disagree. Everyone who got a hit in Friday earned a scroll. I heard of absolutely no variance. Everyone who got a hit in Saturday did not earn a scroll. There's no conspiracy, something had to change. How many times are we going to rattle off personal attacks among our playerbase before we hold the devs accountable?

    The OP is playing the game as he sees fit. He pays for the product and he pays for multiple accounts. Most players who play multiple shards or play multiple accounts have done everything they can at this point on their first shard. Why shouldn't players be able to play more than one shard?

    Policing cross-sharders, or those who play multiple shards, only hurts the casual player. If the devs reduce the ability to spawn an item in order to limit sales then the price will go up to account for the increase in potential buyers. The sellers profit, we all still lag because the sellers show up, and the casual player is left without anything but a book to read.

    As for Mesanna, The AOS Launch Gifts (Publish 18) were hatched May 28th, 2003 according to UOGuide, and the devs didn't give us the six-month bonus plan until October 26, 2006 (Publish 43), over a three-year wait. Mesanna was the Lead QA Tester during the AOS launch. If she learned anything from what is now a nine-year-old mistake, why would she go ahead and deliver what appears to be another huge blunder?
     
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  19. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Of the people in my group who fought Exodus and landed damaging hits (Saturday on GL), several did not receive a scroll. In fact, many people complained that they didn't receive one and were thus rather abusive to our EMs.

    IMHO, limiting an "major global event" to just a few people is silly and will only lead to bitchiness. The clicky when Virtue Bane was banished was the right move, it should have been repeated. Since we were in Ilshenar, all they had to do was close the hole leading to the corrupted Ver Lor Reg to limit it to "participants." A simple confirmation from Mesanna that the +5 to stats will be available to all in the nearish future would go a long way to quelling this cluster frack, from anyone else (no offense) it's meaningless.

    Blackthorn's journal, while interesting, isn't a prize that 99% of players would appreciate.
     
  20. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    I have to disagree there. Right before Virtue Bane fell on Atlantic - I mysteriously fell into severe lag and crashed to the desktop. When I logged back in - I had been telestormed away from the event area. When I got back, the "Vending Machine" clicky was at the entrance to one of the small ruins so that you had to pass through the doorway to reach it. Of course some people opened gates in the doorway to prevent others from getting to the reward so after a long hard fight - I got nothing.

    I much prefer the backpack drop when they do this sort of thing - even if I do not get something that way (like yesterday on Siege) at least I know it was the RNG/system and not due to players griefing.
     
  21. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    I see a lot of blaming of the RNG... do we even know how these items were intended to be dropped? I mean, I know the poor, defenseless RNG that screws up everyone's lives MUST be at fault... but if the drop wasn't random, but based on some other factor, then maybe... just maybe... blaming the RNG (as usual) is a bit premature.

    How about we all settle down and let the powers that be make whatever announcements regarding this that they want. As far as we can tell just from everything over the past couple of days:

    1) We have no clue how the system determined who got one.
    2) We know that some people who had looting rights did not get one.
    3) We don't know if people who did not get looting rights did get one.
    4) We have no idea if the stat cap actually rises to 260, if such a rise to 260 was intended, or if, as some report, it's 255, and eating it is pointless on those characters.
    5) Everyone wants one.
    6) Not everyone has gotten one.
    7) Mythic should probably make an announcement.

    But let's not forget: Mythic is probably busy running this event right now. While some communication would be nice, let's not panic too much until Monday? Even if Mesanna knows how they're intended to work, she may not know how they were coded to work, and this isn't really worth calling up the team on the weekend and saying, "Yo, what's up with the mad dropz skillz, yo?"

    Good grief.
     
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  22. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    me too. I'll add that they should go further and:
    1. add the player's name to all received event/holiday items
    2. the 'memento' received after eating it - applied to other eatables, such as recipes, scrolls,etc
    3. "Scrapbook" to hold these received mementos, (items removable, but book only counts as 1 item)
     
    Samaira likes this.
  23. Druido2

    Druido2 Guest

    Everyone knows this was a screw up. However, it seems that when EA does not want to admint they made a mistake the RNG gets the blame. Either the mistake was done by allowing everyone on the night of the 22nd to get a scroll or on the night of the 23rd to let a few get the scroll. So please lets stop blaming the RNG for everything.......
     
  24. MedeaDF

    MedeaDF Seasoned Veteran
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    Sorry, but this is really a very old and boring issue.

    As ALWAYS, there is a global event like "Go get the baddie, hit him hard until he dies. Now."
    And there is, as ALWAYS, an event drop only for a handful of people, even when there were 100s of them.

    I don't think this is fair any longer.

    It's ALWAYS a lagfest at global events, and I ALWAYS end up somewhere abroad with a really bad connection, and even if I'm right on time for the event and at the right location, I ALWAYS end up without a nice price. I won't complain that I got nothing (again) but I am complaining that nobody at EA/Mythic/whatever had never before (it's 15 years now, so please...) a new idea for doing nice, smooth (lagfestfree!) events for the future.

    Please, think about THIS! :D

    *bows and goes back to lagging from somewhere abroad*
     
  25. funkymonkey

    funkymonkey Lore Keeper
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    I can see why they don't give decent items out like they used to, esp with the response its gets when people don't get them.
     
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  26. PlayerSkillFTW

    PlayerSkillFTW Lore Master
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    Is it energy and discipline, or greed? The wanton plundering of a shard's natural history? I'd liken it to when the British were invading ancient Egypt's tombs and running off with all the archeological artifacts they could, because having an authentic sarcophagus or canopic jar in your mansion was a fashionable fad. Not to mention all of the ancient mummies that were destroyed because they were being ground up and put into "medicine".
     
  27. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    You're thinking of Scelestus the Defiler in Ter Mur, where the clicky gave people "The hand of the Defiler." Virtue Bane's banishment was on the completely barren (at the time) Isle of Magincia, the clicky giving us the "Gauntlets of Virtue Bane."

    Griefing can happen anywhere at any time, its really up to Mythic to crack down on the asshats. Where your shard's EM decided to put the Scelestus clicky was obviously a poor choice.

    One bad experience shouldn't relegate us to a fickle RNG system for a major event. The choice to lower the drop rate after Friday was a bad one, everyone damaging that annoyingly fast, hard to target Exodus should have received a scroll for the remainder of the scheduled events. Better to give a reward to everyone present than to create a situation which is guaranteed to lead to a bitchfest.
     
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  28. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    Oh... is wasn't just one bad experience... just one example. *sighs* I've pretty much given up on EM events... Atlantic is just too crowded and you are guaranteed to lag out at critical times.
     
  29. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Okay... I get that Exodus was moving around quite a bit... probably (as I mentioned in live chat) because whomever he was targeted on took to running away, and he'd retarget, they'd run away, et cetera ad nauseum ad infinitum.

    Exodus was hard to target?????

    Okay... I get that at minimal points during the combat, he was hidden under waves of dragons, but that was from singular angles, and by and large the beastie stood well above anyone or anything remotely considering blocking him. I managed to pull his health bar on three separate occasions (because he would occasionally get beyond range of the CC keeping the bar up), and for one brief moment after a crash I had the EC on standby so I could see just how obnoxious it was to fight in that client. While I still won't use the EC on regular basis, tabbing through to Exodus even with "Destructible Walls" in the vicinity took no more than 7 quick tabs, and once I had fired the first spell at him... all remaining spells went right at him, as the EC is designed to do.

    Ultimately, I logged back out of the EC and into the CC again because I just don't like how the EC plays yet... plus most of my keybinds are ALT-key in the CC and just key in the EC, so I was screwing myself up at a pivotal moment.

    But how in god's name was something that size difficult to target?
     
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  30. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Heh. That's pretty much any event of this magnitude on any shard.

    I have to admit, I'm thankful I was running on the system I was running on. CC, no lag, did just fine. A couple of annoying crashes (that I suspect are multi-sound related, because each time it happened the system was overloaded on sounds), but nothing too exciting.

    EC... still managed to find a way to lag on me. Le sigh.
     
  31. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Well, for the record, I have to say that with character altering rewards that change how a base character functions, it would be a mistake not to ensure that every character at some point is capable of being raised to the 260 cap (if that's actually what these things do).

    Of course, we (1) don't know if these actually do raise the cap to 260... no official announcement as of yet; and (2) don't know what Mythic's plans are for a potential inclusion of everyone in the 260 cap, while leaving the scrolls the unique "I got mine the hard way" reward.

    Personally, given UO's history, I'm actually on the boat that if this is a permanent change to 260 from 255 that Mythic will at some point make the extra 5 points available in some manner. They've never left a huge imbalance like this present for long in UO's history without making it elsewise available.

    On the other hand, if they aren't supposed to raise the cap to 260... there really should have been an announcement before they were used by players. I'm not taking a GM's interpretation of intent though, because I doubt he even knew the item in question existed.

    At the end of the day, only Mythic can tell us what's up with these, and given that being the case, let's let them get through the weekend and address it when they've got the time. I for one know Mesanna puts in a lot more time than I imagine her salary dictates, and I'm pretty sure that a majority of us here also know that. Let's cut her some slack here when we know she's probably helping behind the scenes in making sure we get to enjoy the event.

    Not, I suspect that most people pancakes here are worried about enjoying the event over enjoying the item received from the event.
     
  32. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Trying to pull his bar from anything but his pelvis in the EC didn't work. With multiple crashes, hordes of dragons, and his jumping from place to place (since this looses targeting focus) it was difficult to grab his bar.
     
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  33. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    I can absolutely confirm that they do. Since eating mine last night, I have gained 5 points of Dex past the 255 actual stats I had prior.

    Aside from the time they gave the AoS bonus, then waited 3 years? o_O

    Granted, that one was a choice to purchase the expansion or not. The real start of pay-to-win UO
     
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  34. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Good to hear... there's still been some reports of error, but no idea how those will hold up.
    I may be a bit out of touch with the game, but... what exactly has been "pay to win?" Yeah, I think the purchase of something that moves your corpse to you should just be a feature of the game, but that isn't really win or lose.

    I can't think of anything I've been compelled to purchase that gave me an edge up on anything other than having a stylish house -- and I somehow doubt that makes the Th3 Winnah!
     
  35. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Hmm... not sure why that was the case. I'm pretty sure I dragged it from his wing or chest in the EC, because for the short bit that I used the client, the one thing I did like was that I didn't have to play around as much as in the CC. On the other hand, with something that size, it was easy as hell in the CC too.
     
  36. Shakkar

    Shakkar Guest

    I agree with the last few posts, This type of thing will be offered to all eventually other wise it is a balance issue between the haves and havenots. and per uo rules em items can not change balance in game. and plus 5 stat cap would definatly be a problem if only a few were getting it. I agree they will be adding these items in game for all before to long or we will all wake up with a plus 5 when we log in sorta like the automatic 5 we get from 250 to 255.I personally had to work the event on both shards I play so I didnt even get a chance to lose one.Am i Worried they will not come again? absolutly not. as long as I have played i realize this is a new item and it will be available to all soon. Congrats to all who won one, and congrats for team uo for puttong something like this in game and makeing it first available thru event line. Kudos.
     
  37. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Buying gold was the first "non-unbalancing" pay-to-win, or buying castles, resources, etc off eBay (and now the naughty search sites). Then AoS gave us the +5 stat increase when purchased, which, back then, was a big boost. Then UO Game Codes came out and we had not-so-micro-micro-transactions for things that boosted skills (Woodworker's Bench & Advanced Character Tokens), Legacy Tokens (soulstones), guranteed crafter enhancement (Forged Metal Tools), and then there is the Undertaker's Staff and Smuggler's Edge.

    Most of these things should be available in some form through quest chains. Not as a RNG drop of a random mob.[/quote]
     
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  38. outcry

    outcry Lore Master
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    Why can we not just be grateful for an event that is really fun with a awesome boss to kill. I love how each shard is a bit different. And as for the items and people complaining how about just sit back relax enjoy the game and in the end they normally always balance in time............
     
  39. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Well said.
     
  40. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    The phrase "pay to win" means that you are required to use these things in order to win. That purchasing them gives you a significant advantage over another person. So, one by one:

    Purchasing gold: there's nothing unbalancing about this, unless you look at it from the standpoint of scripting, which is an entirely separate issue, and and issue which plagues all MMOs to a variety of extents. However, in and of itself, purchasing gold does not give a significant advantage except by way of time. I would have to say that through extremely casual gameplay I've been able to do exactly what I needed for my characters without ever having purchased a single gold piece. Thus, in my opinion, this isn't "pay to win."

    AoS +5: for PvP, I agree, this was an advantage. However, everyone has it at this point in time, and I understand the marketing point of the mechanic. Significant for non-PvPers? I don't think that could be successfully argued for anything other than a slight advantage. Was it a mistake to include it as a purchase bonus? Definitely. But this is a solitary example.

    Woodworker's Bench: No offense, but the +5 that the bench gives for a short time each day is a nice bonus, by no means unbalancing. I own one. It occasionally helps, but not by anything significant. Thus, not "pay to win." Minor bonuses are not unbalancing, and +5 lumberjacking is far more minor than +5 stats.

    Advanced Character Token: Sorry... I completely disagree with this one in every possible way to indicate it's "pay to win." The most it does is allow you to pay to not spend time on basic skills. You still have to progress through the hardest levels of advancing them. It gives you a headstart, it doesn't provide you a completed character in any sense of the word. Never used one, never been upset I haven't. I probably have a few promotional ones sitting around that I've never ever used. Again, minor boost, not unbalancing.

    Soulstones: Should never have been introduced into the game in the first place. But that opinion is about as popular as a load of bricks to the head, so whatever. Soulstones provide a way to hold already earned skills. Yes, they provided some moments of "creative technique" with skills, but I would have to say that the best it was intended to do was allow you to play with character templates. Game changing, perhaps. Unbalancing or required? Can't really say that. Maybe at some point they were, but then with all of the fragments given out over the years and the ability to craft them now, I suppose it's sort of a non-issue. But if I had to give any credence to the "pay to win" argument, this might approach a second.

    The rest... Forged metal tools save time and resource, and are limited. A temporary boost, not a requirement, nor unbalancing, particularly with the other mechanics involved. Undertaker's Staff, I'll agree should be available in-game, but unbalancing? No. Smuggler's Edge? What's that provide again? Lanterns? Hardly unbalancing.

    In the end, I think the +5 is the only thing remotely game changing in a significant way, and that's been a non-issue for more than half a decade. Soulstones? Perhaps, but that's about it. I truly wouldn't call any of this "pay to win" in any meaningful sense though. I think an expectation of current customers to upgrade to the next expansion is a realistic expectation, and so a reason to do so isn't bad. It's why they gave storage with High Seas. And even storage isn't game changing, "pay to win" style mechanics.

    [/quote]Um... no offense, but none of the things you mentioned are available as an RNG drop off of a random mob, unless I missed something. As for most of this being made available in-game, some of it is. On the other hand, I can't say that I blame them for microtransactions in general. It is a way to gain additional revenue through non-game-affecting items. Soulstones are convenience items, not necessities. Hair dyes. Sure, housing tiles, brewing, whatever are "booster" items, but again, they save time and effort, but don't provide a meaningful change to the game.

    Personally, and in my own opinion, you're waaaaay off base on the "pay to win" aspect. I'll willingly debate the price of some of these things with you, because I think they're wildly insane in some instances, but the availability of them doesn't change the core performance of the game.
     
  41. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    According to Urban Dictionary "Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying." Massively points out that "there is no agreed-upon definition of pay-to-win." and then mentions items of convenience. Nothing about being "required" and the "win" part, as you well know, is highly subjective. The term usually refers to F2P games which sell vanity items as well as uber gear, UO is just oddly special.

    Never said this was unbalancing, but it does allow players with cash to buy what they otherwise might not be able to acquire within the game world itself. i.e. buying new artifacts, a castle, a vet account, etc. This is definately the most subjective of the list.

    True, but it sets an unfortunate precedent.

    Didn't say it was a big game-breaking advantage, but it is an advantage. Again, its cash to circumvent actual skill and to increase the likelihood you are able to exceptionally craft something, exceptional woodland armor for example.

    For vet players, the token is just a leg up on getting a char to a somewhat useable state. For some one new (for arguments sake, let's pretend there are new players) it bypasses the "learning the game" portion of being new and dumps them into a char they may have no idea how to use. More of a disservice really.

    I love the things, personally :p Its more the "pay cash to get more" aspect I was going for here. Originally, there were a "limited" number made available per account, first with an SE purchase, then as a gift, then a vet reward. Then we got the fragments which were better due to the limited uses. *shrugs* If anything, this particular token lessens the "value" of a vet reward or two (ethy mounts).

    Never used a Forged Metal Tool, eh? These things save a lot in time and resources. They gurantee that you can enhance a weapon or piece of armor, instead of being subjected to the rather high breakage rate. Coupled with reforging, you can go well past the imbuing cap and create really, really nice items. The sheer convenience of this item is what makes it pay-to-win.

    The Smuggler's Edge is kinda a meh item, but it does increase your chances of stealing the rare consumables monsters carry as well as getting the purse...er...lantern and the toolkit. More of a useful novelty, really.

    Again, subjective. Its items that give someone with disposable cash the ability to do things in the game they might otherwise not have the skill/time/knowledge to do.

    That was meant as a disparagement of the practice of shoving most desirable items onto champs or uber mobs, etc. I.e put some of these items into the game via quests, not always combat.

    If none of the items for sale affected the game, then sure. But, several do. Also, we already pay a somewhat high monthly fee for what we receive. Throwing a for-cash store on top of things smacks of corporate greed milking the subscribers. If they introduced a credit system into Origin so that anyone paying a sub got a few credits a month, that would be better. The majority of MMOs with item stores (regardless of F2P) give those paying monthly/yearly/lifetime subscriptions such a stipend.

    Again, subjective. Pay-to-win isn't about requirement, its about convenience and the use of cold hard cash to bypass or exceed limitations of what is in the game normally.
     
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  42. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    I'd like to also add if you ran over his mana drain orbs or whatever you'd lose the mana needed to cast a spell, for example, which threw another wrench into the mix. You finally did everything else right to get there, then you go to cast a spell and, yep, no mana, haha. Half life, need to run out, heal up, try again ;).
     
  43. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Sorry... did you just really cite The Urban Dictionary? Was Wikipedia offline or something?
     
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  44. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Search for "pay to win" or "pay-to-win" on wikipedia.org and you get this page... Not exactly anything of relevance. So, yeah, I went with sites Google suggested.
     
  45. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Um... okay. Let's pretend for a moment that no one actually sold the gold, and instead, just handed it to a new player. The gold, except in the antiquated case of a GM whose name resembled a spiritual bovine, was not being sold by EA, and even then, it was a bad employee, not the company. This is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand because while EA allowed for the sale of items outside of the game, it's still something EVERY game has had to deal with in one form or another. You're correct, it is the most "subjective" of the list, but I suspect you didn't mean to be so correct. I'll still take it as a win.

    A precedent must have something that follows it, by definition. Since there has been nothing similar since (striking the discussion of this thread, since we don't actually know what the future holds from this moment), I'd hardly call it any more of a precedent than the First Annual Barbers Convention of 1912 held once in downtown Bluffsville, CO.

    And we all know that woodland armor provides a huge advantage, don't we. *snicker* It doesn't circumvent actual skill, it augments actual skill. And as for the minor increase it provides, have you used it and studied the effect on your success rates? If so, you can't actually use this as a solid argument.

    Um... let's assume there really are new players coming into the game. What is the likelihood they have purchased an advanced character token? I'd bet less than 5% of new players have ever used them unless gifted to them by someone already playing -- that someone who is also most likely teaching them how to play. And... it bypass the drooling years, not the learning years. Have you forgotten what it's like to level a character?

    Oy. Vey. Could you please choose an argument and stick to it. Trying to decipher this potpourri of logic is starting to require acetylsalicylic acid.

    Um... yeah. A lot? I guess we have different definitions of "a lot." You can also couple regularly made, non-forged-metal-tool items with reforging. And no, I've never used one because I have the patience to craft given the resources I have. Never had a need for it. Which, by the way, is my point that stands counter to your "pay to win." What you call "pay to win" I call "pay for convenience," which isn't the same thing. Something that is "pay to win," regardless of your wonderful recitation from *chuckle* The Urban Dictionary, means that you have to pay for something in order to have a chance at winning. It means it is essentially a REQUIRED purchase. Nothing you've listed, save the AoS +5 which has since been remedied, is so.

    In other words, "This doesn't really apply, but let's toss more on the bonfire."

    You might want to look up the word "subjective." I'm fairly sure you're using it incorrectly.

    Oh come on... first UO would have to have a viable, interesting quest system. It doesn't. That's sort of akin to saying, "Hey, let's put the best sandwiches that we make on the other side of a burning, blistering walk of hot, flaming coals." Those sandwiches better be very good for that kind of pain. UO's quest system has sucked since its implementation... and you'd still probably have to kill something to it. We could argue where they put stuff all day long... it still doesn't strengthen your point.

    Um... well... no, none of them do really affect the game, but I suppose I'll be subjected to a quotation from Bob & Tom's Dairy Farmer's Dictionary and Cheese Factory demonstrating that I'm wrong in that regard. The for-cash store that largely provides decorative or convenience items definitely smacks of milking the existing customers for more money... but are you surprised about that? They aren't exactly running UO as a charity.

    Not subjective. But then, you're not exactly certain how to use that word.

    In summation:

    No more rhyming, I mean it! Anybody want a peanut?
     
  46. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    You should find a reputable source instead of a "add any definition you want" site.
     
  47. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    What's wrong with UO is it is an item based game now. Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie. If there was an event with no drops, very few players would partake in it.

    The lag doesn't help, so, I don't do them, no biggie. Buying items from UO's store, ......lame. Outside of expansions, I never bought a single item, and won't. Those that do, more power to them.

    Just one thing, you mention energy and discipline to play an event on different shards......so, where does the discipline come in? To sit in front of a pc for that long playing an online game takes very little discipline....something 14 year olds do, not grown men and women.

    later
     
  48. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    I really need a copy of the dictionary you use...from the alternate reality you appear to dwell in tonight.

    From Dictionary.com:
    prec·e·dent [n. pres-i-duhnt; adj. pri-seed-nt, pres-i-duhnt]
    1.
    Law . a legal decision or form of proceeding serving as an authoritative rule or pattern in future similar or analogous cases.
    2.
    any act, decision, or case that serves as a guide or justification for subsequent situations.

    Notice how the definition says future and subsequent, but doesn't stipulate when (or, technically, even IF) that second event transpires. Just that an event/decision has occurred that can be used as later justification.

    If you actually, ya know, play the game for more than a few hours a week, you might know that woodland armor is the armor for the most sucessful PvM class: sampires. Making it with the required mods and exceptional is critical. Without a talisman, your chance at making an exceptional woodland chest (just an example) is 25%. The bench adds 3% more which, granted, is seemingly negligible until coupled with a decent carpentry talisman that could push you to a max of 58% (more for some of the other woodland pieces). For one of the most twinked out templates in the game, this is kinda important. In the grand scheme of the game, the bench is mostly just deco.

    If you know what you're doing, working up a character from scratch is actually quite easy. And no, I'm not implying the use of illegal programs. Having worked up 3 mages, two mystics, a necro, and a handful of warriors in the last two years I know its not a walk in the park - AND there are things even a 15yr vet forgets about or never knew. Adv. Char tokens are $30 worth of convenience.

    Ass much?

    Okay, you obviously don't get what these things do, or when to use them in the crafting process.

    Using the sampire from before, let's focus on his weapon. For this example, we'll use the black staff since it has the important whirlwind special. First, you craft the staff out of normal wood. Next, you imbue it with the mods you want until it can't take any more. Then, you double click a Forged Metal Tool and enhance your staff with the special wood of your choosing - all without even the possibility of failing and thus destroying the staff. Now you have a staff over the max imbue weight, without your investment ever being at risk. In the Craft>>Reforge process, enhancing comes last and can push a badass weapon even further.

    Many people don't want to risk losing millions worth of resources and thus buy the tool for the guranteed enhance.

    Since you can only point to your own definition of "pay-to-win," it remains valid for you. Apparently, other people disagree with that. Even Massively, which you willfully ignore, never used the word "required." Your argument is full of straw.

    *sighs*

    And this strengthens yours...how? Oh, straw peeking out again...

    Wake up on the wrong side of the bed today, or just think being an ass is ok? o_O

    Seriously? o_O

    You say that after mentioning wikipedia?

    SERIOUSLY?

    BTW:
    sub·jec·tive [suhb-jek-tiv]
    adjective
    1.
    characteristic of or belonging to reality as perceived rather than as independent of mind
    2.
    relating to or being experience or knowledge as conditioned by personal mental characteristics or states

    i.e. This particular topic, and the items referenced, are seen in varrying ways by different people.
     
  49. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Nice retcon to the intent of your post. Your use of "precedent" clearly implies that you believe that something has happened to indicate it is a precedent for something. Since you don't actually have a point, I'm going to presume we're still waiting for the actual thing it's a precedent to to still happen. Therefore, it isn't actually a precedent for anything. Unless the Court of UO just took over for Gloria Alred.

    Because, you know, your experience with sampires is exactly what again? Oooh... 3%. Um... yeah, see, I like how you combine this so-called unbalancing thing with another item in order to make it seem that much more. Try this experiment, since you think 3% is game-changing. Try it once with a 55% talisman (they have those?) and then add that extra 3%. Yeah... again, not game changing. But keep building it up like it is.

    Um... so what exactly is your point? You don't actually have one in this sentence.

    No more than you, and at least I don't use it as the repository for the information that is being spewed as fact.

    Yes, you're right... I have no idea how to craft. So, my patience and ability to craft something without purchasing an item in order to do so equates to my lack of knowledge of the crafting process? Leap to conclusions much?

    You and the Urban Dictionary don't qualify as "other people." It qualifies as "other person." Pay to Win? Let's use that as an example of someone who favors my valid for me definition. Especially since it's more relevant to what you're indicating than your lousy, badly sourced definition. If that's not sufficient, let's go with:

    Team Meat Rails Against Pay-to-Win Nature of Mobile Gaming | Geekosystem
    Why does pay-to-win work? - Forums - Diablo III
    Is There a Place for Pay to Win? - The Free Zone at MMORPG.com <-- You should probably read this one...

    Long story short, the crux of each of those threads is discussion of models where people spend money to get ahead. This silly perversion of "pay to win" -- which implies that crafting faster somehow is required to "win" in a game you can't win -- is a perversion of the definition. But whatever. You believe UO is in a "play to win" state. I don't. The fact that you have no support for your argument beyond miniscule things that save some time doesn't change this equation.

    So because I don't buy your half-baked excuses for why UO is suddenly a "pay to win" game, or your rather unique way of expressing yourself, I'm an ass? In need of a mirror much?

    Um... reading comprehension for the win.

    I MENTIONED Wikipedia. I did not CITE Wikipedia. You're the one who cited a questionable source. If you can show me where I cited Wikipedia, I'd certainly welcome it.

    And... I understand what the term subjective is. You continue to use it incorrectly in regard to your arguments. The ability to quote a dictionary doesn't provide the ability to use the word properly, sadly.

    Now, how about you go settle down somewhere, breath for a few minutes, and relax. You're getting all worked up about a model that doesn't even exist in context to UO.
     
  50. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Just as a curious side note, Martyna... I noticed you didn't cite:

    "The sad truth of the free-to-play business model." Source? Urban Dictionary: pay-to-win
    But, of course you wouldn't cite that. It would actually have shown the exact point I was making about the nature of the site you chose to cite.