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Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by kelmo, Nov 29, 2008.

  1. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I have never been a big fan of "The Events". Lots of lag, lots of lamers, spam out the wazoo...


    EMs are coming. I don't know if one is brave enough for Siege...

    I just wanted to start a feed back thread. I assume one will be assigned here. It will not be some one that plays here. I will likely ignore the EM events again.
     
  2. Mogluk

    Mogluk Guest

    let's juz klomp da oomie uruk style....

    meeb hav klomper eat da proof
     
  3. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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  4. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    Are you sure of this? This was my only hesitation about the EMs coming back.
     
  5. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I'm unlikely to get involved in them, partly because I only have crafters here and partly because the events will probably be on when I'm asleep.

    But they may serve to see whether some people are right about the current population of Siege. If it's as empty as they claim there won't be enough people to cause lag :D
     
  6. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Good point, Petra. *nods*
     
  7. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I think we should give them a chance, even if they are not from Siege, they may learn how things works here.

    Maybe it can help Siege and bring more life here if done right.

    Sure we can also do it the Siege way, :yell: and I'm sure noone will care to do anything for us.
     
  8. Luka Melehan

    Luka Melehan Certifiable
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    I'm looking forward to it, but I am hoping they will consider a local for the position.
     
  9. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    We will see. I have it from an unconfirmed source that Mythic will have an EM that is familiar with our particular rule set. I am hopeful that Mythic's recent concern for Siege will carry over into this project.
     
  10. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Like the last Siege EM that created a GZ during an event where there was fighting and whacked half of the participants? lol Lets hope they are a little more familiar with Siege than that.

    The Sherry The Mouse event wasn't very thought-out either. Only faction members could participate in that one.
     
  11. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
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    Did they have a sign up for them? I would do it.
     
  12. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    There seem to be plenty of Trammies on the shard, so the events should be fairly active...la
     
  13. Lord_Puffy

    Lord_Puffy Crazed Zealot
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    What would you describe as plenty Rico?

    And to the EM thing, Why not give them a chance what else do you have to lose? At this point its 100% gain, you cant lose anything more.
     
  14. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    plenty = majority...la
     
  15. Lord_Puffy

    Lord_Puffy Crazed Zealot
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    And what is the majority of the population on siege, could you give me a rough estimate?

    As I stated before what would you describe as "plenty"? I thought plenty meant more than enough, or "enough".

    That being said, do you agree then that there are "plenty" of players currently on siege?
     
  16. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Yes, there are more than enough trammies on the shard. There are far too many trammies on Siege though, hell, just look at the poll numbers when asked what people thought of increasing the number of slots per account for Siege...lol.

    As far as the total amount of players on Siege? Nah, there aren't plenty...far too light imo...la
     
  17. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    Well i think a second char would be good here. Saves from paying for two accounts. With all the new skills they are adding, and the high vendor fees, its tough to find items you need, hence a craftsman would be nice to have in the second slot. So when ur low on pots, or need some new armor, you dont have to hunt around, and buy out a vendor when you do find one. I dont think there would be the need for a 2nd slot, should they lower the vendor fees, and thus the player vendors would be more stocked.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  18. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    And this goes to show the change in the types of players on the shard. Not too long ago, a second toon per account would have been laughed right out of the forum if the idea were brought up.

    1 toon per account. For God's sake, try to hang onto some of the uniqueness the shard once had...la
     
  19. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    Though like I said, if the vendor fees came down, and player vendors could be better stocked without players losing money, im all for 1 slot per. As long as the player economy is good, and stock is kept good, then yeah, rock 1.
     
  20. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
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    What more Trammie like having events and tea parties outside of guard zones where they can be attacked and raided or Sitting in Luna calling Guards and saying ALL KILL.
     
  21. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Feeling a bit guilty? I pointed at nobody specifically...la
     
  22. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    lol. Though the one down side to having 2 per account, is passing soul stones back and forth. So ya 1 might be better, but there are plenty on here with multiple accounts, and its evident from the posts. So not a whole lotta difference between 2 slots, and 2 accounts. Though for soul stone purposes, 1 char per is better.
     
  23. ChumBucket

    ChumBucket Guest

    The soulstone issue could be remedied by making soulstones character bound on Siege, rather than account bound, imo. What is the difference between having two accounts for two characters or having 2 characters for your one account then?

    Aside from "uniqueness", what are the real reasons for just one character per account? Just a topic for discussion, please.
     
  24. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    community involvement...la
     
  25. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    I agree, with only 1 character (in theory), it prevents people from being 100% self suficient, like on prod shards. It forces you to interact with others to get common goals done, and makes the guild structure much stronger, and makes communication with those you would normally ignore, mandatory
     
  26. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Don't get me wrong...there have always been people with multiple accounts on Siege (hell, I have 4). But to give everyone that second slot would definately slow the player economy down further than it has sunk. That being said...that was only an issue I used to show as an example of the change in players to the shard.

    There are other examples, but it really doesn't matter. Until more like minded people join the shard, things won't change. I have tried recruiting for Siege in the past with mixed results. With the age of UO and the lack of improvements to the game versus the inability to actually market the game themselves, I do not hold out hope that Siege or UO will have an influx of new players anytime soon...la
     
  27. ChumBucket

    ChumBucket Guest

    *please delete this post, forgot to quote when I began. Thanks*
     
  28. ChumBucket

    ChumBucket Guest

    So many people are condemning the EM program to failure before it even gets started. Even the OP stated "I will likely ignore the EM events again." Is this the "community involvement" that Siege is so full of?

    I am not singling anyone out, just pointing out the mindset amongst many of the Siege players. Unfortunately, if we doom the EM program before it gets underway, what hope does Siege have, ultimately? Without advertising and marketing for UO, the programs and events are all we have. To throw the EM program in the trash prematurely only limits Siege's chances of revitalization.

    Just my two shillings...
     
  29. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    I have to agree with what your about to say next chumbucket. One thing that is well advertised here, and I wish other shards knew this info, is the NEW guild. Its tough coming here, from characters with everything, to someone with nothing. And a seige welcome is a tough one to take for many who have went through tram rulesets, and insurance (i am not one though, i quit with pub16, and am now back), to see what little they have taken away. But thats life. So join new, and you are mostly left alone for the first month, this allows you to get all skills in to ROT (if you dont change template). Which will make it a lot more fun. Sure ur gonna die, but they are there to support you. And if you work hard, you can have 80s across the board within your first month. From there, your atleast competetive in PVM. So take ur licks where you can get them, and its all good.

    Players have to come to terms with the fact they cant run around with that uber weapon and walk all over everything. Cause its gonna get taken. You have to settle for mid level weps (or a good one seige blessed), and thats that. Also having millions in the bank means nothing here. Sure you got a nice house, but that wont get you anywhere. You need to get out there. Its not as simple as farming gold, and buying cheap from vendors, and bank sitting like trammel, showing off ur uber stuff.

    Around here, if you have something nice, sell it to a collector, or lock it down to display. Play the game the way it was meant to be played (for the most part), and have fun.

    I think to bring more people here, and make this shard flourish, a few changes would be good. I say we lower vendor fees, to help boost the vendor economy, which will lessen one char slot impact. And allow recall around fel, but not from dungeons. That will help a lot, as some people hate being forced to have magery. I am one of them. My mule (char I have) shouldnt need magery. I dont build the few things with it. However to get around I need it, and I need it high. Though thats a uniquness of the shard aswell, so its tough to change.
     
  30. ChumBucket

    ChumBucket Guest

    I will openly admit, I am one of those former "Trammies" as Siege players lovingly refer to them. I began my UO time on another shard, and played there for about 2 years. I built 5 characters there, and stockpiled thousands of items and millions in gold. About 4 months ago, I decided to try Siege, because I was bored with the other shard and didn't want to give up on UO entirely. What I found got me hooked. I went back to my original shard (Lake Superior) and sold off my items, dropped my house, and haven't looked back. So, instead of having 5 characters, with which I could undertake almost any endeavor, I now have one, who to this point is still not ready to "take on the world" as they say. I have changed templates several times since coming to Siege, and it's been fun.

    I know Siege players are highly protective of the shard, in regards to "Trammies", and I can agree with the sentiment. Siege is a unique place, with great risk and great adventure. When "Trammies" arrive, they are very often treated quickly to a Siege welcome, having their guts ripped out, and their packs emptied, as they should be. That is what Siege is about: survival of the fittest and all that. Many "Trammies" don't last their first month on Siege, because they can't stand the thought of losing their precious items, or they don't like being the low man on the totem pole, or they just can't compete with the major guilds here. And that, also, is as it should be.

    What shouldn't happen, though, is for Siege to fall into anonymity, which is what is happening. Each time I log into Siege, I wish I could find more people about. Very rarely do I find anyone in the dungeons. Even less frequently do I find them in the wilderness. The few I tend to find are standing in Luna, or are members of "the big 4" traveling in packs to ravage the countryside (again, as it should be). I look for vendors, and find only a handful, spread thin over the entire landmass of Sosaria. Role play is virtually non-existent, aside from what Luka has tried to start with the RP meetings. "Community involvement", from what I have seen thus far, is nearly dead.

    A possible solution: fresh blood. An influx of bodies. More prey. Mugen has seen the decline in it's playerbase, and thus the GOSH guild has arrived on Siege, bringing with it multiple players. The problem, however, is enticing folks to come here in the first place. What does Siege offer, aside from harder game play and more housing opportunities? The Siege experience, I agree. And that, in itself, is what true Siege players are about. But I know many "Trammies" who would love to give up their "safe" lives and come to Siege, if only they didn't have to give up being a crafter to be able to compete and/or enjoy the shard.

    Since I made the first admission at the top of this post, I will make another: I am not in the position financially to afford multiple accounts. There. I've said it. I muddle through with one, and enjoy it. More power to those who can afford 3, 4, 5 or even more accounts. Hooray! But, we are not all so fortunate.

    In the absence of any marketing for UO here in the US, Siege needs SOMETHING. Perhaps it ISN'T a second character slot. But it needs something, or Siege will cease to exist. Mugen is nearly empty for the same reasons. We need to take a look at their history, and learn from it. Sticking to the "old ways" for the sake of being a purist is self-defeating and ultimately ruinous, in most, if not all, cases.

    Perhaps the EM positions will help breathe some life into Siege. I truly hope so. If the right person is tagged for the job, and receives support from the playerbase, perhaps Siege will see a revitalization that will save it. Many people, though, are condemning whoever is chosen before they even get a chance. I understand the fierce protectiveness Siege players have for the shard, and I agree with it. Siege is a great place, and a lot of fun. But if Siege wants to remain, it needs players, and it needs players badly.

    Again, all of this is just my two shillings.
     
  31. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *nods* Well said, Chum.
     
  32. Mogluk

    Mogluk Guest

    meeb still want tu klomp 'im
     
  33. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    This has been the case for years...please see the attached link.

    link

    and then look at the date I posted that. LOL, the shard had already had issues with a lack of participation when I posted this. Just think 4.5 years later, and things really never got better...la
     
  34. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Haha, I reposted the original post over on UHall.

    link

    Feel free to add your two cents there...too...la
     
  35. ChumBucket

    ChumBucket Guest

    This is exactly my point. If the shard had "issues with a lack of participation" four and a half years ago, and it hasn't changed, then how much "community involvement" would be lost by looking at other avenues of enticing folks to join Siege?

    I applaud your efforts to recruit players to come to Siege, I really do. It takes effort and a lot of talking until you are "blue in the face" to convince anyone to even think about coming to Siege these days. But if telling them all about Siege and it's wonders doesn't do it, then are we to give up on the whole idea? Or should other avenues be explored? It just doesn't seem (to me) the PvP aspect is luring folks away from their safe little homes on other shards. Some, like myself, make the transition, from time to time, but will that slow trickle be enough to sustain Siege in the long run? With so many folks selling accounts, taking "breaks", or just plain quitting, perhaps it is time to take a good hard look at the issues that cause most people to shun Siege.

    I'm not a board pvp'er, so please don't take my posts as such. I just don't want to see Siege fold because it's citizens (or the DEV's, for that matter) won't do what is needed to save it.
     
  36. Hoffs

    Hoffs Gilfane Keeper of the Hall
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    It is not easy to pin down reasons for people not playing Siege. There are lots of them stated, but really I think the main ones are that firstly people can not face losing the crutches of insurance/Trammel, and secondly that they are simply too entrenched on their home shards and don't want to start over from scratch (and Siege not appearing on the shard list for new accounts doesn't help us there).

    The problem is that if all the various suggested changes were made, Siege would not be the same place. I am prepared to accept some changes, but others would begin to ruin it for me. For instance, it was suggested in this thread that recall be allowed. I absolutely hate that spell. Yet, perhaps some things that I don't mind (like reducing the time between ROT gains to just a couple of minutes across the board) would be equally abhorrent to others.

    So really, I don't know what the solution is. Personally, I just can't for the life of me see why people want to play on a shard where there is no risk and everything is handed to you on a silver plate. It just seems pointless. But they do, and that seems to be the central problem to me.

    There are some things that could be done to help keep existing players happy, like a nerf to dragons in PvP and a solution to the stealth problem, but we all know how difficult it is to get changes made here, even if we are all generally agreed on the matter.
     
  37. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    The dragon pvp nerf was supposed to be taken care of last publish. As an aside I always found it annoying that recall is in my spellbook.
     
  38. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    I dont think rot gains need to be spaced. If you have 70s across the board, you can go out and PvM, and really if you PvP within someone of yours skills, its the same as GM vs GM, or 120v120. Though there are many already maxed out. I think rot is fine, since its pretty much a version of GGS. When the timer goes, and u do the skill, you gain. Its very easy. Just takes time.

    As far as recall, although you hate it, it might make players a little more welcome here. There should definitly be no recall/gate from dungeons. And perhaps use the same timer for recall as you would flagging. That after combat you must wait 2 mins to use. Not sure if thats the answer, but it might help some come over who want a diff template, and dont want magery. But thats taking away from seige too, so a tough call.

    Maybe we should start a thread here, on what changes you think need to be made, and keep it clean that way.
     
  39. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    I don't PvP (except when opportunity allows), but if Recall were allowed on Siege I can guarantee this would be the newest that all PvPers whine about. Siege has had a population since it started without Recall, adding it to satisfy Trammies who bait us with coming here "Only if" would just be caving in.

    Neglecting all that.. asking the devs to make special rules about if and when certain things work, on Siege only, would be too much work inside the code for it to be worthwhile. They won't do it. Any idea must be easily implemented.
     
  40. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    I guess, that is true. PKs would hate it. Since people could recall from safe spot to safe spot, and not be followed.
     
  41. Hoffs

    Hoffs Gilfane Keeper of the Hall
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    We have had discussions before on various things many times, and very few ever have a consensus opinion. As Sweeney says, we must keep most changes to those things which are fairly easily instigated (and which we can get reasonable agreement on). My first priority was the reduction of the ROT timings. We had a poll on it a while ago and the findings were submitted to the devs. Hopefully they will take note.

    Beyond that, there are two other points that I think would be universally welcomed. One is to bring vendor costs in line with normal shards. The second one is to make Siege appear in the shard selection screen for new players, even if it is greyed out to them. The former should be easy to implement, the latter probably not. But they are two things I would like to look at after publish 57.
     
  42. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    Both of those are great ideas. Im sure its easy to change the vendor charge. It would be a mild code change, to seperate it from the norm. 2 more lines of code.
     
  43. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    Maybe getting more decent player-run events listed on the main page of Stratics would do more good than so many daydream-posts by people wanting the devs to make everything right.

    *cough* Petra help us out. *cough*
     
  44. IanJames

    IanJames Certifiable
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    Adding recall to Siege would just make it easier for the scripters to run their scripts. We have enough issues with that as it is.

    Plenty of people are getting by just fine with gate or nothing. . .
     
  45. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    No recall has classically been the reason why this shard has been appealing to many of the existing players today. I've been a fan of making gate travel more accessible, but not of changing to recall in any way.

    There are certain things... we don't need to have discussions on. Kind of like the idea of Trammel... it just doesn't go.
     
  46. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    I can't say where I got this idea, but what about eliminating mount usage on Siege? Put everyone on the same level playing ground...eliminate mounts and the beni's to being in animal form at least the increased travel speed forms...la