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Event. NORMAL OR EXPLOIT?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by MaryForUo, Mar 31, 2008.

  1. MaryForUo

    MaryForUo Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
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    On Atlantic gate at moonglow.
    Some player do this:

    Get into the fountain
    Attack all the Berseekers
    Cast Earthquake "In Vas Por"

    Its Normal or a exploit?
    I dont think this was intended!!!

    check the pic, its say all:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. HA! thats awesome!!!!
    Looks to me they are jus using the Environment provided them to help defend Moonglow!
     
  3. OMG that's too funny!

    I actually feel sorry for the bezerkers.. unless they teleport into the fountain and give out a serious smackdown on the quakers.

    -P.E.
     
  4. Yes it is. There must be a path for them to come and smack you. Which path you're allowed to block by a spell. Or a herded animal.

    But I think Draconi will take the solution "B" : give some ranged attack to those demons, either spells or rocks or electricity bill...
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    How are you dead and the world is not gray?? That in it's self looks like an exploit.
     
  6. Lord Mike

    Lord Mike Guest

    I think hes the guy on the swampy.

    Also this is no different than the guys in Magincia luring them near the beach and pounding on them from their archers on a mini cliff.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    That Ghost isn't in the middle of she screen. My char is always in the middle of my screen. I doubt that is them, though, I can tell that they have Spirit Speak, since they can understand the ghost.
     
  8. BadManiac

    BadManiac Guest

    this has to be considered legal, without this "exploit" noone will ever get into dark Moonglow for the event, so stop complaining.
     
  9. well ... bound to be someone "fix" that ... ain't like the EQ is whats making the Daemons ...

    probably "population based" for the spawners ... day one ... remember ?
    Europa is popping too ... [​IMG](Drac mentioned something like 250 on the first day)

    Don't forget to take a swing outside of the gate ...

    Wouldn't be alllll that "bad an idea" for those with blackrock ... to carry it into the "zone"
    ONLY when theres shadowlords to be dealt with ...

    [​IMG]
    Just saying
     
  10. If you have UO Assist and view yourself as a chicken you can take nice colorful screenshots even if your dead.
    Not sure if that's what the op is doing or not. But there are non exploit ways to take a non grey screeny .

    That is alot of berserkers! I am getting a little more thankful that we don't have those on Lake Austin yet. How else are you supposed to kill that many?!
     
  11. MaryForUo

    MaryForUo Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
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    <blockquote><hr>

    this has to be considered legal, without this "exploit" noone will ever get into dark Moonglow for the event, so stop complaining.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    i'm not complaining, i'm "asking" if this is ok or no, simple.
    Who are you to say that "this has to be considered legal"? lol

    I know its a pain fighting in moonglow, but in this way all beersekers
    are just out the gate, so, if you come you die in 0,000000001 sec
    cause all berseekers are on you!

    I die around 10 times before i get this pic! lol

    i take the pic while hidden with my stealther char.
     
  12. I do believe that is me in the pic castings EQ. I was in wraith form with non stop eqs. Took forever to kill them (20 minutes nonstop casting) not to mention a Infected one came along. Exploit I think no, Fun I think so
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Since the dark wisps, the fetid essences, the fallen warriors, the liches and lich lords can (and do!) all cast and/or teleport in on my discord bard/weaver to melee her there in the fountain, I'm guessing it's a legitimate &amp; strategic use of the available terrain.

    The only access is teleporting in/out or recalling out. This, of course, means when we all die there (usually to a lethal poisoning fetid essence or wither-spamming lich lord), someone has to teleport in to res us.

    You can forget about looting anything since the corpses are well out of reach. It's really effective only as a team and really only when those players are cross-healing/curing. We had necro-mages, disco/provo bards, spellweavers, and archers amongst us.

    I managed to snag a robe/cloak this morning, so I spent some hours this afternoon distracting/occupying, discording &amp; WoD-ing the zerkers (along with the other hastily assembled members of a particularly mottley crew [​IMG]).

    I don't know why the others did it even when none of us could loot anything. I can't even say any of us even had any skills left to gain. I did it to save Europa's Moonglow and, mostly, so that others could have a relatively clear shot at the ShadowLords.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    How are you dead and the world is not gray?? That in it's self looks like an exploit.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    There's an easy way to do this, using UOAssist. Just have UOAssist show you as a chicken, and the grey world becomes colored again. Useful reporter trick.
     
  15. Welll ... there's thinking .... and there's "protected"

    apparently ... you hit them ? and them not you ?
    [​IMG]
    Tip your hat and get outta the pool ...
    that would be a "blocking" infraction ...

    Then there's the OBVIOUS luring aspect to it ...
    allllll over the single entrance ...

    As tore up as that little slice is ...
    it ain't Fel ... pilgrim ...

    time to move on ...

    plenty will be a paging on ya now ...

    Tip your hat and get outta the pool ...
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    That is a brilliant exploit.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I do believe that is me in the pic castings EQ. I was in wraith form with non stop eqs. Took forever to kill them (20 minutes nonstop casting) not to mention a Infected one came along. Exploit I think no, Fun I think so

    [/ QUOTE ]
    These threads always crack me up. Of course it's an sploit. Any time you can get to a spot you know you aren't suppose to and kill stuff without it killing you is, supposedly, against the rule. Someone has to enforce those rule though. Therein lies the real problem. Carry on!
     
  18. <blockquote><hr>

    i'm not complaining, i'm "asking" if this is ok or no, simple.
    Who are you to say that "this has to be considered legal"? lol

    [/ QUOTE ]

    So your asking a question that you don't want anyone to answer in a public forum?

    <blockquote><hr>

    I die around 10 times before i get this pic! lol

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You can Hide/Invis before you step on to the tile that takes you in and you remain hidden on the other side. Afaik you can only currently cast Invis before going in on Atlantic, the other shards still have 'no casting' around the entrance. Though there are other ways to hide.

    "Exploiting is getting to an area your not supposed to"

    No it isn't.
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You don't even have to do that. Beserkers have 0 pathfinding intelligence and can get stuck behind nearly anything. This may or may not have been intentional when they were created.
     
  20. well gee...thats me in the fountain...

    poop on ya if you think it is wrong or an exploit, because myself and others did what no one else was willing to do. i ran around that town for an hour dying trying to *lure* deamons away from the gate, to no avail. after seeing another person hop in the fountain i figured hell, why not hop in and EQ.

    fyi....things can cast on you while you are in there. they can also tele in, so please no crying.

    and next time...consider where all those deamons WOULD BE had it not been for us necro mages in that fountain.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. MaryForUo

    MaryForUo Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    ok ok, its all ok! =)
     
  22. Idk if that was supposed to be towards me or not but your preaching to the choir if it was, I was also in the fountain.
     
  23. eolsunder1

    eolsunder1 Guest

    Its 100% an exploit. There is NO way for the monsters to get at you, thus in UO terms its an exploit and needs to be delt with. If people shooting monsters from boats, from mountains, from behind barriers, in their house, if all these people have to pay the price, than standing in the fountain where you cannot be damaged and casting and killing is an exploit also.

    And that LadyNico, a Moderator says its ok and they do it, thats doubly bad.
     
  24. Definitely an exploit

    If the monster can't get to you, it's an exploit.
     
  25. <blockquote><hr>

    Its 100% an exploit. There is NO way for the monsters to get at you, thus in UO terms its an exploit and needs to be delt with. If people shooting monsters from boats, from mountains, from behind barriers, in their house, if all these people have to pay the price, than standing in the fountain where you cannot be damaged and casting and killing is an exploit also.

    And that LadyNico, a Moderator says its ok and they do it, thats doubly bad.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    last i knew several of the monsters can teleport...so how do you figure this is an exploit? btw...monsters CAN cast on you there too....anyhoot...thanks for crying...erm...i mean caring.
     
  26. <blockquote><hr>

    Definitely an exploit

    If the monster can't get to you, it's an exploit.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    ever been in a boat? so you are saying that if i hop in a boat and go fishing i am exploiting because monsters cant PHYSICALLY attack me? same principle!
     
  27. Well, which is it? Exploit or fair game?
     
  28. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Definitely an exploit

    If the monster can't get to you, it's an exploit.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    ever been in a boat? so you are saying that if i hop in a boat and go fishing i am exploiting because monsters cant PHYSICALLY attack me? same principle!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's an exploit because the monster has no attack that can hit you from where you are. To deny it is an exploit is asinine.
     
  29. gm or possibly draconi just showed up invisible and whacked everyone that was using this exploit.

    So anyway... it is definitely an exploit.
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Its 100% an exploit. There is NO way for the monsters to get at you, thus in UO terms its an exploit and needs to be delt with. If people shooting monsters from boats, from mountains, from behind barriers, in their house, if all these people have to pay the price, than standing in the fountain where you cannot be damaged and casting and killing is an exploit also.

    And that LadyNico, a Moderator says its ok and they do it, thats doubly bad.

    [/ QUOTE ]Okay, hang on there. First off, I moderate the Tamer Forum, that's it. I don't have any more powers here in UHall than you or any other poster.

    I cannot and do not speak for what is &amp; is not acceptable gameplay. Only an EAMythic employee can do that and their names will show up red and with a VIP tag beside it so there's no question about what kind of weight should be attached to their words.

    What I said was that I felt that since it is not a safe spot, because all the magic casters can and most certainly do cast &amp; teleport in on you, I felt it was a strategic use of the available terrain.

    No, the zerkers could not harm me. Everything else, however, most certainly could. I died there a fair few times today (Glorious to Good for those who care about such things).

    Mostly I died to teleporting lethal poisoning fetid essences and to multi-FSing-wither-spamming Lich Lords combined with a distinct lack of room in which to manouvre. The fallen warriors and dark wisps also smacked me around some, though I was mostly able to provoke those off onto other targets.

    No one can tell me the fountain is a "safe" spot because it just simply is not safe by any stretch of the imagination.

    The fact of the matter is that since it's been called into question, I've not done it so I actually have no idea whether it's still even possible to teleport onto the fountain/spa water tiles.
     
  31. rtlfc

    <blockquote><hr>

    It's an exploit because the monster has no attack that can hit you from where you are. To deny it is an exploit is asinine.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    There are other monsters there that do have ranged attacks.

    <blockquote><hr>

    gm or possibly draconi just showed up invisible and whacked everyone that was using this exploit.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No he/they didn't, they whacked the berserkers only.

    <blockquote><hr>

    So anyway... it is definitely an exploit.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No it isn't. How about all the archers shooting across the fence is that an exploit too? No one comes here complaining when they see that every few minutes, just because it's mages everyones on here posting bs. If the teleport spell is an exploit then why the f have it in the game, if your not allowed to teleport in the fountain then why do they let you. If not being able to get hit is an exploit then why is moving shot allowed.
     
  32. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Curse you Lady Nico!
    You should know you aren't allowed personal opinions once you moderate something, yet here you are walking around all lardy da like you're a regular person.
    This corruption of your official duties is a travesty to the world of Ultima Online, you should feel guilty about your negligence and I demand you post a public apology, or I for one will never look upon you as the embodyment of Stratics moderation and opinion again.

    (also, they should probably have learnt to retaliate to these tactics given the number of times they've appeared and had them used against them, but they don't so knock yourselves out until they learn, stupid beserkers)
     
  33. <blockquote><hr>

    rtlfc

    <blockquote><hr>

    It's an exploit because the monster has no attack that can hit you from where you are. To deny it is an exploit is asinine.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    There are other monsters there that do have ranged attacks.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Chewbacca defense?
    Berserkers can't attack you.

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    So anyway... it is definitely an exploit.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No it isn't. How about all the archers shooting across the fence is that an exploit too? No one comes here complaining when they see that every few minutes, just because it's mages everyones on here posting bs. If the teleport spell is an exploit then why the f have it in the game, if your not allowed to teleport in the fountain then why do they let you. If not being able to get hit is an exploit then why is moving shot allowed.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    A) There are archers going there shooting at berserkers and that still doesn't make it right. You know in UO archers can have Magery too.
    B) If there's a bug allowing you to do something you were not supposed to do, you're not allowed to use it, that's what's called an exploit. If the fountain wasn't supposed to be accessible, even if it is, it's an exploit.
    C) Moving shot is a special move which requires ressource : mana. Mobs can still hit you when you use moving shot.


    SUPPORT CENTER says :

    Question :
    Is it legal to block NPC's or monsters with objects, or invisible pets/players?

    Answer :

    It is not legal to block NPC's or monsters with objects. The deliberate blocking of monsters or NPC’s with objects such as boats, crates, house tiles, invisible pets or invisible players with the intent to gain an unfair advantage, like skill gain or monster killing is considered an exploit and can result in account penalties. This also applies to “animal pens” or “Safe areas” in the game world. <font color="red">If the animal/monster cannot damage you, then you are abusing the system and will be asked to stop.</font>

    As well, if you find an area blocked off by items that another player has left there to gain an advantage for taming or monster kill, we ask that you either destroy the items, or pick them up for later disposal. Using these items to your advantage, even though you did not place them yourself, is still considered exploiting.

    However there are times in which we will allow this. If your home is set up to be a stable, or you are showing off various animals of Britannia and these animals are not being used to gain skill, attack other players (in Trammel), or provide any unfair advantage to you or others then it is ok to leave your pets/animals in your home. However, please be aware that a Game Master may remove any wild pets if those pets are found providing an unfair advantage to other players or are causing an issue with the game in that area. These decisions are made on a case by case basis and players should follow the decision made at the time.
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I agree with you, it's a way to exploit a system in the game, but it should be impossible to do, not something players are kindly asked to refrain from doing even though it's something they'll do naturally as a response to situation.

    We understand it's possible to dupe your equipment if you use a boat, please don't use boats. In the meantime, please enjoy our new "magical teleportation doesn't work anymore" event; awesome rares will be dropping all week on fire island.
     
  35. Guest

    Guest Guest

  36. <blockquote><hr>

    Chewbacca defense?
    Berserkers can't attack you.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No idea what that means.

    <blockquote><hr>

    There are archers going there shooting at berserkers and that still doesn't make it right. You know in UO archers can have Magery too.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm not saying it makes it right, I'm saying you don't get anyone complaining when archers do it.

    <blockquote><hr>

    If there's a bug allowing you to do something you were not supposed to do, you're not allowed to use it, that's what's called an exploit. If the fountain wasn't supposed to be accessible, even if it is, it's an exploit.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Casting teleport isn't a bug.

    <blockquote><hr>

    Moving shot is a special move which requires ressource : mana. Mobs can still hit you when you use moving shot.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Mana isn't a resoucre, but either way eq also uses mana so theres really no point in that comment. Mobs can't hit you if they don't have ranged attacks and you keep moving away.

    <blockquote><hr>

    It is not legal to block NPC's or monsters with objects. The deliberate blocking of monsters or NPC’s with objects such as boats, crates, house tiles, invisible pets or invisible players with the intent to gain an unfair advantage, like skill gain or monster killing is considered an exploit and can result in account penalties. This also applies to “animal pens” or “Safe areas” in the game world. If the animal/monster cannot damage you, then you are abusing the system and will be asked to stop.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    The fountain isn't a safe area. People died in it.
     
  37. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Chewbacca defense?
    Berserkers can't attack you.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No idea what that means.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    *laughs*

    Neither do I.
     
  38. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Chewbacca defense?
    Berserkers can't attack you.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No idea what that means.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    *laughs*

    Neither do I.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's from a South Park episode. It was used in reference to Johnny Cochran... where his defense didn't make sense at all but worked every time. [​IMG]

    -P.E.
     
  39. Ok, I don't watch South Park, or know who Johnny Cochran is. (nor the desire to find out)

    Anyway... the point is it seems fairly riddiculous to me that people teleporting over a barrier to fight monsters is considered an exploit but when 100's of archers (&amp; others) do it over the other fences and in the teleporter maze every minute no one says a thing about it.

    I vote (for those who feel that strongley about it) that the non ranged monsters get the invasion teleport thing back that they had previously they already do the half your pets hp for no reason attack.
     
  40. How about this??

    [​IMG]
     
  41. <blockquote><hr>

    gm or possibly draconi just showed up invisible and whacked everyone that was using this exploit.

    So anyway... it is definitely an exploit.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Your ignorance really irks me.

    How long have graveyards existed in UO? Besides the entrance how many ways can non spellcasting creatues exit it? (rhetorical) So by your *logic* if I stand outside the graveyard and shoot spawn I am exploiting the game since the cant reach me due to a NATURAL border?

    Please think before you make false statements or point your finger calling foul. Making the most of a difficult situation is a good thing, and strategy is a farcry from cheating.

    Still think I am a cheat? My advice would be spend more time thinking about what you are doing, and less about what others are not.
     
  42. this is a tired argument, but I'll bite...

    I answer all your questions with more questions. How much of this thread did you read? Did you read the post where someone posted the ToS verbatim where it clearly states that the activity we're discussing is an exploit?

    It's plain English and judging by your post, you are fluent in English.

    To answer your questions explicitly.
    Yes, your graveyard example is a prime example of explotation that has been done for 10+ yrs.

    Now... Having played the moonglow event when the berzerkers were WAY out of control; I can't pass judgement on a player using this exploit. I have to concede the point that exploiting the berzerker spawns when there are 50 of them in such a small perimeter is basically the only option.

    That content was poorly designed and just deserved to be exploited. Most of the event content has been well balanced and reasonable. The berz swarm was just wrong and not fun. Exploiting it isn't fun either, but at least you can get loot.

    If the devs don't want players to exploit content as they did here, the devs need to consider a few things before releasing the content.
    1. The AI of the critters (berzerker pathing is REAL bad)
    2. The abilities of the critters (no ranged abilities means you need to make sure the critter can't just be trapped up as has been done with berzerkers)
    3. The overall difficulty of the content as it is released. In this case, the devs put WAY too many berzerkers in, which resulted in players having one choice if they wanted to participate. Well... I did group up to drag down one berz and one dark lord, but it was extremely difficult to just get those 2 monsters. Realistically, the only option with this content was to exploit it.
     
  43. You need to reread the ToS, as it clearly states that it is illegal to BLOCK monsters. This has nothing to do with blocking mosters, as blocking monsters (according to the ToS) implies that a person is doing something artificial to prevent the mobs from reaching you. We were doing nothing to prevent the mobs from reaching the fountain but we WERE strategically using the TERRAIN set before us to avoid PHYSICAL damage.

    Do you understand the difference? To most of us the difference is plain as day sir.

    Cheating and strategy are two completely seperate things. Jealosy I suppose could blur the two. [​IMG]
     
  44. so this is a terrain advantage... it is known...

    all is in the hands of the devs... fix it or let it be...

    we'll soon find out.
     
  45. Guest

    Guest Guest

    [​IMG]

    That's Larisa &amp; Jeremy in the hot tub after the Stratics party on the Winter Wonderland shard.

    At the time I thought the water tiles were particularly cool since you could walk in them, on them, around &amp; through them - unlike the house or world building type water tiles which block movement. I walked around in the hot tub, admiring the fishies visible in the water and emoting silly stuff like *splashes.*

    [​IMG]

    These are the same water tiles utilised in the construction of the fountain in Dark Moonglow.

    Since the legality of using such a position has been called into question, I've not actually made use of the spot for any other purpose than snapping the second screenshot above.

    As for "advantage" (unfair or otherwise), and while I cannot speak for anyone else, my own char (Nico:- 120 real music/discord/provoke/spellweaving and elder-ish mage/med) hasn't had any room for skill gain for many a moon. Neither was I actually able to loot anything which had not actually teleported in on me &amp; left a corpse within my reach. I was busy enough just staying alive and can't say I had an opportunity to loot anything in reach even had I wanted to do so.

    The zerkers' corpses remained out of reach. They may well have been drylooted by passersby, any of whom were absolutely welcome to recoup a little insurance or snag a scythe.
     
  46. Guest

    Guest Guest

    replying to last...

    I think the people who consider this an exploit consider it an exploit because of what is at stake, the scythes. I mean, you all should consider that if you teleport, every monster that does not have a target will target you, so, as the last poster mentioned, it isn't the best way to get loot. But when ya'll mention Brit grave yard, and junk like that, well, no one cares about that stuff, because nothing is at stake. Whether or not every instance of ranged fighting should be considered an exploit (basically, anyone who plays an archer or a mage will eventually be accused of h4x), the main reason anyone wants to stop what is going on here is because they think some how they are losing out on items. That's pretty sad.

    Anyway, we did the same amount of berserkers in Magincia, if ya'll remember the guardians, who spammed berserkers like they were going out of style. All you need are some stealthers, or a chiv with a self rez or two ;P to get the group going, then, somehow, everyone needs to work together. The haxing mages might even cast ENERGY FIELDS AND THEN BE accused of haxing, while the archers hax and the warriors cry [​IMG]. It would be horrible to ever have to change chars in order to complete an event. Good thing we have 7 chars, so we can only play one, and demand that everyone else is a haxxer because of the fear we are losing out on items.

    THIS IS WHY EVENTS SHOULD BE BASED ON SOMETHING OTHER THAN EVENT ITEMS! [​IMG] Like, maybe kill counts. Or a timer on just "being there." Neither one would be a perfect system, but better than the greed people have over items.