1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Exodus and Bards... Devs Why?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Merus, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    I would like to understand the rational behind forcibly removing the ability of bard (peace, disco & provo) from the exodus encounter. Frankly I have never been in favor of excluding templates from content and see no justifiable reason for it here. Ok, he is 160 difficulty so you will probably fail and the disco effect is halved, but why not let bards try?

    Here is a prime example... Last night I partied with a few strangers to do my first Exodus. They were all mystic mages so I thought I would disco the boss and use the bard songs for the party bonus. Almost as soon as we start fighting the party was dropped, strangers don't want to share looting rights... I get it = no use running bard song. Can't discord or peace Exodus so here I am on a 4x120 bard and I am completely useless... Oh I tried a few EV which were instantly dispatched.

    Devs I ask why? Is Exodus really so weak that a discord would ruin the encounter? Help me understand.
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  2. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,889
    Likes Received:
    5,175
    The opportunity for a bard is in collecting the keys I think. I have collected them far more quickly on my bard than most others seem to be able to do.
     
  3. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    So a bard works good for getting keys... Are the key droppers immune to warriors weapons or mage spells cause they get to damage Exodus?
     
    Sauteed Onion likes this.
  4. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Bard effects seem to work on all the other mechanical creatures in the dungeon...
     
  5. Don't Tread on Me

    Don't Tread on Me Lore Keeper
    Professional Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    866
    Likes Received:
    248
    Under normal party circumstances, you would be able to use your bard mastery thus actively participating. Also, with 4x bard you're probably wasting 240 skill points as is (only need to use 1 bard skill plus music). Lastly, lots of bosses are nearly impossible to fight on certain templates. Look at the new dungeon revamps, they completely nerfed sampires there. Your situation is rather unique. I would venture that maybe if you aren't going with friends, you don't bring your bard or you change your template up so that you can inflict damage and get looting rights while still conducting your bard song if you choose.

    As for dropping the party... even when I play with groups I don't know, after the boss is killed (whether champ spawn or trammie boss) we go to a bank somewhere and roll for arties/scrolls. I don't know what shard you play on, but Chessy rolls pretty nice that way, especially for someone like you doing bardsong or whatnot.
     
  6. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Actually the bard songs are affected by your total skill points in all 4 skills... So with 480 points my songs are much more powerful than with just 240. In addition, the discord bard song is pretty useless (IMO) so if you want to run a party buff song and disco the boss you need at least 360.

    As far as effectiveness, I realize that bards or sampires or tamers may not always be the most effective templates, but that is different than being prevented from using your skills by game mechanics. A sampire might have a harder time staying alive against something with the life corruption, but you can still hit the mob. A tamer might have a harder time keeping a pet alive, but the pet still does damage. I am not asking for bards to be the most effective... Just that they be allowed to use their skills.

    Lastly, the argument to just use a different template is completely irrelevant to why a particular set of skills is prevented from participating. If Exodus was immune to throwing weapons I would ask why, not just say use an archer.
     
    Andrasta and Lord Frodo like this.
  7. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,688
    Likes Received:
    583
    A 480 bard gives a huge bonus to the group hence why people have them, I have two on my secondary accounts that I bring if needed. I guess he could have swapped out to the disco spells and rolled with those but I've not done this champ yet so I don't know how that works. I think the issue is more that he implied that Exodus can't even be disco'd or anything else and that wastes his effort in getting the keys etc. It's annoying to not be informed of these things much like the rest of the game, stuff is forced out with no follow up information given(reforging for a example).

    It would seem that he was the outsider of the group and it was dropped on him I suspect.
     
  8. Quickblade

    Quickblade Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    269
    You should have done the discord masteries songs, at least that would give you some damage output , but if you want Exodus be able do be discorded, devs would need to up it's Stats & Skills because discorded Exodus would have very low wrestling and all other skills thus making it too easy...
     
  9. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    I have yet to encounter another peerless that can not be discorded... Are you saying that slasher, Stygian dragon, Medussa are that much stronger than Exodus?

    I did try the disco song, which was about as effective as the EV.
     
  10. Don't Tread on Me

    Don't Tread on Me Lore Keeper
    Professional Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    866
    Likes Received:
    248
    I forgot about bardsong being enhanced with all bard skills... And I hadn't really thought about what you said about the "completely useless" part too. I'm sitting here trying to think of other examples and I think you might be right. Aside from a few creatures who have 100 resist (armor, like physical or fire or something) I'm having a hard time coming up with something that the game mechanics didn't nerf but completely made useless. We'll call it the uber-nerf I guess.

    Well, you got me, I understand your complaint. Though I still think your group partners weren't very nice with the non-party thing. Also, I noticed on the other exodus thread that a lot of drops are coming when parties are NOT disbanded, so, since they drop in your backpack anyways, maybe people will start keeping the party on for the fight.

    Only other example (for above) that I can think of is the Stygian Dragon and the G. Drags. But the pets still do damage, like you say, they just go crazy or whatnot. I dunno, I've never seen a dragon in there so I'm not exactly sure what happens to them, but whatever. Oh, and maybe there is something undiscovered that you can do (find some fairy dust or something crazy like that) for barding to work on exodus, who knows.
     
  11. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
    VIP Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    389
    If you're a 4x bard, in a non-partied group with mystic mages. They are relying on their RC's and/or spells to damage the boss. Unless they have a slayer, your base damage output from despair is 62 (Of any damage type you choose), and tribulation is proccing 84% of the time at 50% damage.

    Its not a whole lot of damage, but it should be enough to get you looting rights.
     
    Flutter likes this.
  12. Airhaun

    Airhaun Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    22
    Shizzaamm!! I have found this to be very true for me as well. Provo (click-click) Disco (click) Invise, EVs, Cor Por... rinse repeat.
     
  13. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    The damage numbers I was seeing were in the 4-10 range from the disco bard song while they said the rc was getting 40+ on normal attacks with AI attacks much higher plus their direct spell damage. Wasn't feeling very confident that I would yield looting rights based on those numbers with 3 other mystics.
     
  14. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,688
    Likes Received:
    583
    I guess you could switch the damage type around and see if that helps to increase the output. This said it's clear that adding mystic to the temp is not a bad option, I've been thinking of doing that to one of my bards as a bonus...don't really want to though.
     
  15. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,729
    Likes Received:
    64
    Yo have to addapt, i love my sammy but he's usless there aswell cant even get close enough becase of the AOE and when you can its hitting for 20, plus no life leech = dead. So i didnt get looting rights = no arti chance.

    So i took my tamer, works great if there is enough other tamers all xhealing, if not your screwed as ya pet is constanly dead got looting right this time but no arti.

    So took mystic dexxer and bing AI for 85+, and rising colossus, got looting right and an arti :)

    You just have to use a different char for different things and find one that works best for you at that time.

    Dont forget shes mechanical so its just right that leeching doesnt work or barding.

    Look at peerelesses warriors cant do grizzle. sampires cant solo melee or irk. tamers cant do proxy but can solo the other 3

    Thunderz
     
    #15 Thunderz, Nov 21, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012
  16. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    I
    I think you confuse effective with ability. Your sampire CAN hit exodus and so CAN your pet. I CANNOT discord, peace or provoke Exodus because the game itself prevents it. If bards are not the best template for Exodus I am fine with that and will pick what I think works best for me... But having the game itself exclude skills from being used is not ok with me. I would like to understand the reasoning the Devs used for this.
     
    Lord Frodo likes this.
  17. Quickblade

    Quickblade Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    269
    Discording Exodus would make him have under 100 in Wrestling I think... and btw discording it wouldnt give you dmg output numbers neither peace it and provok well there are no monsters in there to voke on Exodus. Bards are good for party it always been like that for all bosses and peerless... im curious about your 2 others skills at 120 are Meditation and ? Because some magery would make you able to heal poeple and that count toward the credit for artys.. but in the end Exodus is so easy as it is no need of discords really....
     
    #17 Quickblade, Nov 21, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012
  18. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Skills are 120 magery and 120 med. I do not think Exodus is any "weaker" than any other peerless, all of which I can discord. Like I said, it really isn't so much about making the bard the most effective template for Exodus, but excluding his abilities does not make sense to me. Being able to discord and peace are very useful abilities that do not rely on being in a party to be effective, and this a valuable hunting partner.
     
  19. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,729
    Likes Received:
    64
    Logrus just said you can damage the boss and you said YOU DID SEE NUMBER so you CAN hit the boss and yo DID do DAMAGE...............

    So you cant bard it, my sammy cant leach it but i can hit it and so can you, but like your numbers mine are also usless. Although logrus said you should be seeing 65 thats a damn better number than 20.........

    Thunderz
     
    #19 Thunderz, Nov 21, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012
  20. Quickblade

    Quickblade Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    269
    I think the base dmg of 62 that Logrus mentionned was if the target had 0% resistances but Exodus must have around 80% resistances so that reduce the 62 to 15 ish damage ... IMO they should change the discord masteries damage to direct damage instead of physical damage and just adjust numbers for pvp so it doesnt do 62 periodic damage to the player ...
     
    #20 Quickblade, Nov 21, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012
  21. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
    VIP Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    389
    Yep its base damage, but you still should adjust the damage type so its targeting his lowest resist. And if the RCs were doing 40's and higher then tribulation would proc of them for 20 up.
     
  22. Quickblade

    Quickblade Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    269
    So tribulation work with damage from poeple/summuns outside of the party ? And I think Exodus have all resist in the 80s so targetting his lowest resist wouldnt make a really big difference...
     
  23. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
    VIP Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    389
    Yes, it can proc from every damage source. Doesn't have to be from party members.
     
  24. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    534
    I refuse to even countenance anything with the "corrupted life" effect. Sampires are the only viable melee in this game and the only character type that ever gets hit by a monster on purpose. Thanks for nothing.
     
  25. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    I believe it will proc off others damage, but I think the damage is counted toward the damager not the bard running the song.

    Bard song aside, there are always ways around getting right... I could run in and out of its damage radius and constantly heal myself too (yes this does work and has been confirmed by a scroll drop) but all of that belies the real question as to why it was made so that it can not be barded. The real issue is being a useful member of the hunting team, not just working the system in hopes of a drop.
     
  26. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
    VIP Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    389
    Tribulation damage counted to bard. Only inspire damage bonus is counted to damager not bard.
    Though in this case if you're dropped from party the lack of contribution is less a factor of the template than the group. A bard left to fend alone will necessarily be less useful.
     
    #26 Logrus, Nov 21, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012
    ShadowTrauma likes this.
  27. Quickblade

    Quickblade Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    269
    Yes I must agree Exodus should be peace/discor -able, but only suffer a 14% debuff instead of 28% , I could cleary see fighting Exodus that he's low on Wrestling (I estimate around 110) especially when my lower attack proced , so if Exodus get discorded at 14% it would still loose 15 in wrestling making it at 95 wrestling thats too low, Logrus do you know anything about Exodus' lore can you confirm this? Thanks
     

    Attached Files:

    #27 Quickblade, Nov 21, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012
  28. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    397
    Fire Horn. After reading up on it was the reason I made a 4x120 bard with sword and chiv. Used to solo champs with him till the Tact nerf. 81-100 damage PVM with a 4x120 bard. Flaming a discorded WW a 4x120 bard does 110 damage. Do it over I would replace sword with archer. But when burning through the first levels of a champ, Holy Light /Spin Attack /Weapon Area /Weapon Spell /Fire Horn in one mass attack.
     
  29. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
    VIP Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    389
    Haven't done the exodus encounter myself yet, don't know when I'll have time. Lately I've been trying to build a few new characters so I've just been training in shame.
     
  30. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,550
    Likes Received:
    549
    Same... I've fought Corgul twice I think and that's the only thing I've ever fought with that corrupted life. F*** that, I won't do it. Regular warriors just don't survive well enough without a dedicated healer.
     
  31. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    534
    As far as I'm concerned sampires deserve to rule over everyone like gods until it becomes possible for an archer or mage to die without going AFK or something.
     
  32. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    471
    Please, it takes a lot of work to kite a mob around, don't throw the archer under the bus. Archers are and always have been the redheaded stepchildren of UO. Any time something come along that gives us an edge, the mass begins to cry, and the Devs nerf us. Please leave Archers out of your whines.
     
  33. Snakeman

    Snakeman UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Premium Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2002
    Messages:
    4,961
    Likes Received:
    165
    Bards are getting left out of many things as of lately. Many EM Events is a prime example, now add this creature to it & it seems like they are being shut out of many things. I agree it shouldn't be a cake walk to disco it or peace it, but it should be able to be done like, people are 120 in skills for a reason, so there should be that chance, even if a lot lower chance of being able to be Disco'd or Peaced.
     
    Merus, Andrasta and Picus of Napa like this.
  34. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,686
    Likes Received:
    266

    The reason is they don't want you to be able to disco or peace him not to awefly hard to understand get over it, and get with players who actually want a bard to use masteries with them and not just someone to take along as fodder. I am SOOOO sorry your 4 X leg Bard is as you say "Usless" perhaps you should transfer of 2 of your skills and get mystic and focus and go join them.

    There ARE MANY times that certain templates do not work, it has ALWAYS been that way.
     
  35. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Again, you are confusing effective with ability. No matter what your template or how hard you try, the game itself prevents you from using the discord or pease skill on the mob... that is ENTIRELY different from one template being more or less effective. The only other instance that I can think of that even gets close would be those mobs (like Slasher) that are immune to WoD. If you can think of another mob that an entire skill set is excluded I would love to hear it.
     
    #35 Merus, Nov 23, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
  36. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,688
    Likes Received:
    583
    There is nothing correct about not allowing a full skill set to be dismissed. You don't have to bring a bard and yes you can run the specials but to effectively cancel out the skill is silly. Mel for example "shrugs off" the disco and, I believe, reduces the bonus it gives but you can still do it.
     
  37. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,686
    Likes Received:
    266
    You can still do exodus on a Bard you just cannot directly target Exodus, I did not miss the point, YOU have since you are upsett that you cannot disco Exodus, you can still use your Masteries you just have ot go in with a party who actualy wants you to play with them. The whole bard skill set is not dismissed just made so you have to have a willing party, just like Andros where on Player cannot get it done.

    There have been many instance where WHOLE skill sets have been left out. Wait why cant my thief go in there and just steal an arti from exodus? Why cant my Blacksmith go in there and forge the clockworks to dust? Why cant my cook go in there and slow him down with molasses. but seriously, you want to take you bard in GET with a party who wants your help and you can use your masteries. And Finally if you are a 4 X 120 Bard you still have two skill you can use at 120, like i suggested get Mystic and Focus and go in a help out with a rising colasses..

    Everyone here understand you are whinning about not being able to use YOUR bard and almost all of us stated how you could. get with the program.

    If you are in a party who is using you, you will be effective!
     
  38. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    If you took your blacksmith to exodus all of his skills would work exactly as they do anywhere else. If you take your thief to Exodus all of his skills work exactly the same as they do anywhere else. If you take your cook to Exodus that skill works exactly the same is it does anywhere else. There is no other mob that I am aware of that by virtue of that specific mob a skill or group of skills is negated. Discord, Peace and Provoke are hindered by virtue of fighting Exodus. The argument of "get a different skill" is beside the point. If any other skill was negated by virtue of Exodus you would here exactly the same question regarding that skill. Even if disco and peace were allowed, I would probably not go back down to Exodus on him again, my thrower is far more effienct, as would be my mystic weaver... that does not change the fact that I find no logical reason to prevent bards from using their skills.
     
    #38 Merus, Nov 23, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
    Andrasta likes this.
  39. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Just a bump now that our team is back in the office.